Please change the safebox lead

yohoia

Yes, this is the worst setup for a lead so far. I can't say how much I hate this (spending hours just trying to get access to a box to loot).

Vaoh

This thread won’t change anything.

[snip]
They’ve had 8 years of data to analyze what they can and cannot get away with. This is not a game where the devs interact with the community constantly and have an actual positive connection with their playerbase - [snip] The only replies this thread gets are from mods telling players to complain less.

Want new PvP content?
PvPers need to unsub and stop buying strictly PvE content.

Want more reasonable leads/content?
Stop defending Oakensoul and don’t buy the chapter.

Want better prices on crown items?
Stop spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on crown items.

It’s upsetting but that is the perspective of the company which is in charge of the game all of us here care about.

[edited for bashing]

Holycannoli

Vaoh wrote: »

This thread won’t change anything.

[snip]

Actually if they're motivated by money then its in their best interest to make that lead a little easier to find, at least as far as places to find it like pickpocketing.

The bad press and word-of-mouth from this might be convincing players on the fence about buying High Isle to not buy it.

Slightly easier to find lead without the frustrating bottleneck might = more people wanting to buy High Isle.

Just a thought.

[edited to remove quote]

Vaoh

Holycannoli wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This thread won’t change anything.

[snip]

Actually if they're motivated by money then its in their best interest to make that lead a little easier to find, at least as far as places to find it like pickpocketing.

The bad press and word-of-mouth from this might be convincing players on the fence about buying High Isle to not buy it.

Slightly easier to find lead without the frustrating bottleneck might = more people wanting to buy High Isle.

Just a thought.

“Players on the fence” are the statistics they have, not us. The initial test was with Harpooner’s and everyone still bought the chapter. It’s not enough to sway anyone away.

Will Oakensoul be different?
Answer is no.

The reason being that people are so willing to buy the chapter that the vast majority of PvPers are buying a strictly PvE chapter just to get a mythic. The grind is just a temporary inconvenience.

[edited to remove quote]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Vaoh wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This thread won’t change anything.

[snip]

Actually if they're motivated by money then its in their best interest to make that lead a little easier to find, at least as far as places to find it like pickpocketing.

The bad press and word-of-mouth from this might be convincing players on the fence about buying High Isle to not buy it.

Slightly easier to find lead without the frustrating bottleneck might = more people wanting to buy High Isle.

Just a thought.

“Players on the fence” are the statistics they have, not us. The initial test was with Harpooner’s and everyone still bought the chapter. It’s not enough to sway anyone away.

Will Oakensoul be different?
Answer is no.

The reason being that people are so willing to buy the chapter that the vast majority of PvPers are buying a strictly PvE chapter just to get a mythic. The grind is just a temporary inconvenience.

Only slight pushback is that if I am correct on this, nobody even knew where this was dropping until it went live. I am guessing a massive amount of their sales are pre-orders, so for a lot of people, the "vote with your wallet" ship has sailed.

I did not pre-order for the first time ever, but that was about a card game, not a crutch mythic I will likely never use. LOL. It would be interesting if ZOS got inundated with a flood of refund requests.

Also, you are right, they have tested the waters, and they know what the community will tolerate. Now why they thought this particular lead was a good idea is completely beyond me.

[edited to remove quote]

JonnAndCo

I finally got to pick the lock twice today, before competition increased and I gave up. My subscription comes up for renewal in 3 months. So if I don't get the lead by then, I will probably cancel. I believe this is a reasonable expectation.

I have played since open beta, and in that time communication has ebbed and flowed. When they lose subs, they seem to do much better, so that is why I think it would be wise to cancel if they won't do something to alleviate our suffering.

I also plan to keep an eye out for alternative games, just in case.

chessalavakia_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This thread won’t change anything.

[snip]

Actually if they're motivated by money then its in their best interest to make that lead a little easier to find, at least as far as places to find it like pickpocketing.

The bad press and word-of-mouth from this might be convincing players on the fence about buying High Isle to not buy it.

Slightly easier to find lead without the frustrating bottleneck might = more people wanting to buy High Isle.

Just a thought.

“Players on the fence” are the statistics they have, not us. The initial test was with Harpooner’s and everyone still bought the chapter. It’s not enough to sway anyone away.

Will Oakensoul be different?
Answer is no.

The reason being that people are so willing to buy the chapter that the vast majority of PvPers are buying a strictly PvE chapter just to get a mythic. The grind is just a temporary inconvenience.

Only slight pushback is that if I am correct on this, nobody even knew where this was dropping until it went live. I am guessing a massive amount of their sales are pre-orders, so for a lot of people, the "vote with your wallet" ship has sailed.

I did not pre-order for the first time ever, but that was about a card game, not a crutch mythic I will likely never use. LOL. It would be interesting if ZOS got inundated with a flood of refund requests.

Also, you are right, they have tested the waters, and they know what the community will tolerate. Now why they thought this particular lead was a good idea is completely beyond me.

[edited to remove quote]

You'd also have people that bought the version of High Isle that came with other expansions that aren't necessarily going to be able to refund or going to do so.

I've had a good time doing the expansions before High Isle these past few months so even if I could actually refund it I'm not going to do it because overall I did get my money's worth.

I'd argue that many of ESO's recent challenges are made worse by communication issues/the approach of communication.

For example, on the PTS I ran into an area where the ground had a hole that you could get stuck in where the texture was missing. I went to post it on forums but saw they wanted the reports in game so I did so in game. It's a public test server so, one expects bugs.

Needless to say, seeing the same spot on live having the same issue wasn't exactly a happy moment as I'd reported it on May 2nd so they likely had plenty of time to fix it or at least bandaid it by tossing some rocks on top. The area isn't exactly subtle so anyone else that ended up their likely could have noticed it and may also have reported it.

When the update had issues, the maintenance was repeatedly extended by two hours at the last moment rather than having a longer period of time listed to start with.

You hit the same issue with the lead as well . If we'd had a clear message a couple hours in that the lead experience wasn't intended and they'd have a fix in a week people would be far less annoyed than the silence - they are thinking - they are thinking and looking into changes for a later date.

HappyTheCamper

Hey when console gets this update and before I decide to dose myself with this torturous round of lead-chemotherapy, I do have a question about auto looting the safeboxes.

Are we supposed to be turning autoloot on or off? I’ve heard having it on prevents others from getting it, and I’ve heard leaving it off lets them sneak in somehow before you can grab it.

I plan on leaving it on like I always do, just wanted to ask.

JonnAndCo

I noticed today, that if you have auto loot ON, but loot stolen items OFF, it auto opens the chest, but does not remove the stolen items. This I believe would satisfy everyone.

jaws343

JonnAndCo wrote: »

I noticed today, that if you have auto loot ON, but loot stolen items OFF, it auto opens the chest, but does not remove the stolen items. This I believe would satisfy everyone.

This is my default anyways, because when looting stolen urns and containers, I'd rather not auto loot the white level items or the useless plans/recipes.

yohoia

Bad, boring, horrible design.

I don't mind a bit of work to get a lead, but this is just beyond awful. Waiting with a bunch of peaple for boxes to spawn (large groups gathered around each spawn point, waiting, waiting, waiting, fighting to be the one who opens it, no lead, waiting, waiting again. This is not a game, it is a punishment.

JonnAndCo

I got my final lead on the 5th lock box I picked. I am fortunate to be able to play during off times, which made it easier. I never actually found an unopened box, instead I always had to wait for them to spawn, but I was the only one waiting at times. I still think they need to do something for those who can only log in during peak times, since each lock box is still camped by multiple players during peak play times.

Rowjoh

The lack of positive communication and remedial action on this is shameful.

Reaver999

How disconnected are the devs from the experience of the game and it's players to not know that this would quickly turn into a crap fest of toxicity and trolling, making everyone regret buying the expansion because the mythic was the only thing making it worth the purchase? This is how ZOS does fun...

morrowjen

Randver wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Anyone have confirmation if it drops from something besides the safeboxes?

I saw a few people claim that it dropped from pickpocketing then every npc in the zone died for a while but, that has since slowed down.

After spending nearly 5 hours out there today and watching people try everything it appears it's only from safeboxes and you need to be the one to pick the lock.

After my experience out there today I now have 12 people on ignore (none prior to today) and I actually have no desire to log in. I was amazed at the number of people making an already bad experience worse by auto looting boxes (there was a rumor you could get the lead by looting the box and not being the one that picked it so they were doing in an attempt to prevent people from getting lead). The worst of the ESO community was on full display in Murkmire today.

This is why I like playing late. The lead that was on the table during the Reach chapter was an E/A button fest. I was on controller and there was simply no way for me to get the lead first. I watched as several people came and got the lead while I impotently tried to get it and always lost out. Finally I asked the people waiting if they would allow me to grab the lead. They asked if it was on a timer and I said that it was but that I was on a controller and would never be able to out E anyone. They were super cool about it and let me grab it. We just queued up as we arrived. I don't think that prime time players would've been as laid back about it.

I haven't farmed for any of the current mythics in part because the way farming was for the kilt and pale order ring made me hate the game so much.

Vylaera

The logic of people here always amazes me.

As if they're sitting 'round a spiked Deadlands table at Evil ZOS Headquarters of Suffering and Pain concocting new ways to make their customers not enjoy playing the game they profit off of.

"oh, I have an evil idea!"
"let's hear it, fellow sadist!"
"we will make them all compete over 12 boxes for a chance to drop the lead! That is sure to make them suffer! Muhahahaha"
"oh delicious, what a great recommendation to make our paying customers dissatisfied and frustrated with our product!"

Like in what world does this make any sense?

chrisub17_ESO104

Vylaera wrote: »

The logic of people here always amazes me.

As if they're sitting 'round a spiked Deadlands table at Evil ZOS Headquarters of Suffering and Pain concocting new ways to make their customers not enjoy playing the game they profit off of.

"oh, I have an evil idea!"
"let's hear it, fellow sadist!"
"we will make them all compete over 12 boxes for a chance to drop the lead! That is sure to make them suffer! Muhahahaha"
"oh delicious, what a great recommendation to make our paying customers dissatisfied and frustrated with our product!"

Like in what world does this make any sense?

Canned systems like mythics mean that lead selection could have been done by say the monetization team with no design input. Who might or might not even play the game. This is not uncommon in large studios (I work in the industry).

And yes designers/developers can and do create sadistic loops. It's not that the intent is to be sadistic, but that they know what players will go through for a shiny. So if they have some loop that fits the gating they want well, it's likely they will use that even if it's a bit sadistic.

That happens ALL THE TIME. It's the norm.

joerginger

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

And yes designers/developers can and do create sadistic loops. It's not that the intent is to be sadistic, but that they know what players will go through for a shiny. So if they have some loop that fits the gating they want well, it's likely they will use that even if it's a bit sadistic.

That happens ALL THE TIME. It's the norm.

And it needs to stop. Riight now.

Rowjoh

@chrisub17_ESO104

No, its absolutely not the norm. It rarely occurs.

But it occurs when games enter old age and the best devs and team members have left to go work on newer more exciting projects leaving a second or more likely third string team in place. High Isle is proof enough of this.

Never ever have I come across a mechanic as customer alienating as this, and the deserved vitriol and negativity is something that any company should be deeply concerned about.

Sadly the lack of any sort of positive acknowledgement, action or apology is another sure sign that the way has well and truely been lost.

iaminc

Almost 15k views and +200 comments.

Still no update from ZoS or are they still “discussing” it?

Communication with us is as predictable as always , least the crown store works though.

Jaraal

iaminc wrote: »

Still no update from ZoS or are they still “discussing” it?

They said they were "looking into some changes to be discussed at a later date." So they may still be in the looking stages. We don't know if the discussion phase has even started yet.

Jaraal

Vylaera wrote: »

The logic of people here always amazes me.

As if they're sitting 'round a spiked Deadlands table at Evil ZOS Headquarters of Suffering and Pain concocting new ways to make their customers not enjoy playing the game they profit off of.

"oh, I have an evil idea!"
"let's hear it, fellow sadist!"
"we will make them all compete over 12 boxes for a chance to drop the lead! That is sure to make them suffer! Muhahahaha"
"oh delicious, what a great recommendation to make our paying customers dissatisfied and frustrated with our product!"

Like in what world does this make any sense?

And yet that's exactly how it turned out.

I had to spam my E key last night (at 1 am) while other people around me were doing the same thing, trying to beat me to the mini-game. And of the times that I managed to be first and have a chance to open it, it took me nine tries before I got the lead. Also racked up a significant bounty, as the NPC was fully aware of my presence at all times.

And after all that, when I finally got the ring, I went to equip it, considered the skills and the extra gear set I was going to have to give up, and realized that I was better off with my two bar setup after all.... and ended up just banking the ring and forgetting about it.

mzprx

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey All, wanted to follow up here just to give an update. We are still trying to confirm some information regarding the safebox lead before following up with more concrete information. The dev team is still discussing to make sure players have a good experience. We are hoping to follow up soon. Thanks for the continued patience.

ROFL..

this kind of "communication" only shows that you, ZOS, don't listen to us, players, nor to our feedback. no matter what you say. IF you listened to feedback you'd have heard about the Shadowfen fiasco. IF you wanted to "make sure that players have a good experience" you'd want to avoid repeating the same mistake ever again. but it's obvious you don't care. people will give you money for new chapters anyway. and, to be frank, i think this is a form of trolling coming from your side. players didn't enjoy the endless hours of staring at a water or plant node? they complained? unacceptable! we shall make their lives even more miserable for that! this is not bashing. this is the truth. no one with a functioning brain would do something this stupid after the Shadowfen lead insanity..

i'm not trying to say that we should have anything handed to us on a silver platter. i don't mind spending time doing content to get the lead. but standing at one spot and bashing the E button for hours whilst being insulted and bashed because "this is my spot, you noob! go away! find your own box!" (and worse) plus people making everyone's life miserable by spamming abilities and having as many pets out as possible is NOT doing content that i paid for. so please do not insult our intelligence by saying you want players to have good gaming experience. again, no one with just a handful of brain cells would ever consider this being "good experience"..

Tra_Lalan

From todays patch notes:

"Doubled the drop rate for many Antiquity Leads found in safeboxes, including the Petrified Oaken Loop.
Introduced another source for the Petrified Oaken Loop Lead for you to discover."

Thanks ZOS

Rowjoh

FINALLY !

This should have been hot fixed much sooner.

xgoku1

Thank you ZOS for addressing feedback in a timely manner.

@ZOS_Kevin Thanks for following up.

My 2 cents: Next time, please let us know the lead sources in the PTS cycle. We can avoid all this drama - the mystery of finding leads lasts like 1 or 2 days and isn't worth the intense negative player experience from inevitable badly placed leads.

AvalonRanger

Drauz wrote: »

this is horrible, dozens of people waiting and almost no one can open it

"dozens of people waiting and almost no one can open it"

Half of disagree. It is true some people keep waiting at the safe box.
But not forever.

Just doing gear farming at the normal dungeon or pick up crafting material on the
field for killing time. I open the box approximately 30 times, and got it. Not so rare drop rate.

The box has cooling time more than 20min each 4box out there.
Keep waiting in front of the box is time wasting anyway.

MidniteOwl1913

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

From todays patch notes:

"Doubled the drop rate for many Antiquity Leads found in safeboxes, including the Petrified Oaken Loop.
Introduced another source for the Petrified Oaken Loop Lead for you to discover."

Thanks ZOS

So will this be true for the console which drops today?

Zenzuki

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

From todays patch notes:

"Doubled the drop rate for many Antiquity Leads found in safeboxes, including the Petrified Oaken Loop.
Introduced another source for the Petrified Oaken Loop Lead for you to discover."

Thanks ZOS

So will this be true for the console which drops today?

No unfortunately, we will have to wait for the next incremental. So maybe a week?

But definitely not with the update.

BalticBlues

This may be a social study of HOW MUCH PAIN are people ready to accept in a game.