adding gasoline to fire

deleted220614-000183

As people tried explain ZOS many times
they should not worsen already bad situation with golds and inflation.




Recently an item called "Morrowind Banner of the 6th House" was sold on PC/EU for 150M golds.
It is another example in a row how worthless are golds and how bad is inflation.

If ZOS thinks that giving free 150k golds from daily rewards will help curb raging inflation
well it is not the case.

Or maybe they are eager tp update guildshops and add to max prices limits, because it is only
2.100.000.000 golds now and it will be soon not enough.

Especially if they dont stop pouring new dirty golds to the game and don't do something with daily rewards and writs.

Or maybe they can't wait for the prices like that:

1x heartwood 1M
200x heartwood 200M
1x chromium plating 250M
10x chromium plating 2.500M (over current price limit in guildshop)
1x Morrowind Banner of the 6th House 150 Billion golds (or 150.000.000.000 if you can count all that decimal places)
only 70 times over current max price limit LOL

fizl101

and on console we don't have an issue with inflation that I see discussed on the forums for PC. I'm happy to have the gold!

Browiseth

is it really a problem? it's inevitable, if anything. the longer the game is out, the more gold that is generated by players to be traded between each other

100k seems quite inconsequential and not worth being upset about enough to make a thread on the forums about it. i for one like getting more money in this game

LashanW

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

ApoAlaia

Upside, purchasing manors has never been easier \o/

Furthermore as @LashanW pointed out needful upgrades have been made affordable for pretty much everyone 'out of the gate'.

If ZOS would see this as a serious problem, given that you can purchase those houses and upgrades in the crown store with real world money (purchases whose attractiveness is proportional to the value of gold), they would be actively fighting it.

The fact that they keep giving away gold means that it isn't an issue from their perspective, and they are the ones with all the data (and the pressure to meet targets).

fiender66

Youhuuu! Gold and mats. Cannot ask for more

BretonMage

100K gold is a drop in the ocean for the richer players, and really helpful for newer players. I think it's fine. Trading system might need an adjustment to make items more affordable, that's all.

LalMirchi

I respectfully disagree OP.

The login rewards are very helpful for new players and 100K gold is a drop in the virtual ocean.

Hymzir

Gold inflation is a thing, at least in PC environment. Doing crafting writs has become the accepted routine for the game. There are many who do them on multiple accounts each day. With the flat gold reward, and then selling off the junk you get, lot of players make 100k per day just from writs.

At the same time though, the prices of items not originating from players - i.e. bag and bank space increases, achievement and luxury furnishings, and... well that's pretty much it though - remain the same and fixed. 100k in gold, compared to those fixed prices, is a meaningful amount. And it is a lot to starting player, to those who do not have the crafting dailies gold-mill set up.

It doesn't help much either, that there are constant events with double gold, and all the extra gold introduced via daily login bribes, and the CP passives that increase gold drops. And then there are antiquities, which one can churn for endless gold with almost zero effort, if one bothers to.

The game keeps getting more and more avenues introducing ever more gold, while the actual uses for gold haven't really increased, since everything cool and actually desirable, is invariably cordoned behind crowns.

If gold had some actual use, its value would also go up. But as it stands now, the only real and meaningful gold sink affecting the majority of players is guild kiosk prices. And that obviously is not draining meaningful amounts of gold from the system

I do not have any real ideas on how to fix this, since the actual fix would require ZOS to offer stuff via gold instead of real money. That would hit their profits though, so that is obviously a no-no.

The 100k, as many others noted, is helpful to new players, so it's fine as is. For veterans, it's meaningless, and the system is not going to get "fixed" any time soon, so why worry about it. It's chump change and wont change anything.

The only real use for gold, beyond kiosk bids, is housing. And if you do not participate in that (I no longer do, because the slot restrictions are just too low, and kill my creativity) then my advice is to stop worrying about gold. It's not gonna get fixed, and at the end of the day, it's not worth worrying about. Personally speaking, I stopped caring about gold a long time ago. Even without actively doing writs anymore, I'm still sitting on 20+ million in gold as is, and have zero use for it.

Finally, a note about that 6th house banner. It's not the best example to use for highlighting gold inflation. That thing is just so rare that it simply has no meaningful price. It's price has always been "How much do you have?" Your chances to win the lottery are better than getting that thing drop. While gold inflation is a thing, and does push it's prices beyond stupid when it does come up for sale, the real problem with that thing is the insulting low drop rate.

bmnoble

For that Morrowind Banner of the 6th House, probably someone getting lucky listing it for a stupidly high price, or someone trying to use an uncommon item drop to disguise selling gold for money, stands out slightly less than charging a 150M for some lockpicks or a piece of white gear.

The other items you use as an example a player can get themselves just takes time, if your not prepared to farm something and the only listings are whatever price whether reasonable or unreasonable you either have to decide to take it or leave its no more complicated than that for anything you want to buy.



For richer players that extra 100K barely gets noticed, if a player is spending hundreds of thousands or millions in a week for newer players however it makes a difference when upgrading bank and inventory space, provided your not trying to gold out gear with upgrade mats off guild traders that 100K can still help out a lot.

Monte_Cristo

fizl101 wrote: »

and on console we don't have an issue with inflation that I see discussed on the forums for PC. I'm happy to have the gold!

I'm on PC and I'm always happy to see large amounts of gold as rewards. Not all of us make millions from the traders. 100k gold can get me a monster helm from the golden vendor.

Tra_Lalan

Inflation is mostly a problem for new players, so giving them 100k is good.

That type of reward was always there from time to time.

Also imagine if in real life, people were complaining about inflation, and at the same time were angry that their employer gives them a raise.

Iselin

Do you know what people need to cope with inflation? More gold.

You want to stop inflation? Kill it at the source which is either crowns for gold [snip]. Complaining about 100K from daily rewards is not the solution.

[edited for baiting]

ResidentContrarian

New players exist. Completely locking them out of the market just because you think it affects prices on the game makes no sense, but would help new players quickly leave the game.

Players always have the option of getting whatever they want themselves and avoiding the market completely.

I simply don't buy anything that I find expensive and don't sell to resellers. Gold has always been worthless anyway, when compared to mats or any other item that has a hard value.

Vaoh

Browiseth wrote: »

is it really a problem? it's inevitable, if anything. the longer the game is out, the more gold that is generated by players to be traded between each other

100k seems quite inconsequential and not worth being upset about enough to make a thread on the forums about it. i for one like getting more money in this game

Yes it’s a problem. Do you want our console server economies to turn into an inflated mess like on PC.

More gold is generated overtime but that is supposed to be counteracted via gold sinks. We don’t have many effective gold sinks though and 100K per active player is a massive injection of new gold into the economy. I’d rather they provided something else, like 50K tel var. At least that gets destroyed via purchases at the vendor.

It won’t ruin the economy on its own but it’s unnecessary to take an a step toward inflation like that imo.

MidniteOwl1913

When I was a new player that 100,000 was like mana from heaven. It really helped me at that time. Now yeah, it's a drop in the bucket. But for new players, it's a real boon.

notyuu

The reason for the inflation of the prices on upgrade mats, furnishing mats and furnshing plans is literally due to simple supply and demand, in this case, demand has remained constant (or if the rumours are to be beleived, reduced) while the demand has increase, as a result the price per unit has gone through the roof

There's two ways to deflate the prices however
1: Increase the supply of the mats & plans by buffing the drop rate or even allowing the deconstruction of exsisting furnishings
2: add in a gold sink, for example a weekly vendor that shows up and sells a random mixture of upgrade and furnshing mats for some gold, along with furnishing plans for very much more gold

as for the 6th house banner being sold for 150 mil, that's simple, it has a drop rate so low that people honestly question if it drops at all as none are seen for months, if not years at a time despite an almost steady stream of farming in the drop area (every time I go there, I see at least 20 odd people farming the place)

Lailaamell

Add tax system with 60% rate and inflation will drop and increase prices and decrease income maybe norm would be 1k a day of active farming lower drop rate on mats add gathering tools with limited use would also help for it would be a gold sink

Vaoh

notyuu wrote: »

The reason for the inflation of the prices on upgrade mats, furnishing mats and furnshing plans is literally due to simple supply and demand, in this case, demand has remained constant (or if the rumours are to be beleived, reduced) while the demand has increase, as a result the price per unit has gone through the roof

There's two ways to deflate the prices however
1: Increase the supply of the mats & plans by buffing the drop rate or even allowing the deconstruction of exsisting furnishings
2: add in a gold sink, for example a weekly vendor that shows up and sells a random mixture of upgrade and furnshing mats for some gold, along with furnishing plans for very much more gold

as for the 6th house banner being sold for 150 mil, that's simple, it has a drop rate so low that people honestly question if it drops at all as none are seen for months, if not years at a time despite an almost steady stream of farming in the drop area (every time I go there, I see at least 20 odd people farming the place)

It’s inflation from automated writ farming. Gold on your server even sells for 20x less than on console, because just like all currencies the value depends heavily on how much of it is actually out there.

As an FYI, on my server Wax sells for 2.4-3K, Rosin for 3.5-4K, etc. Crown exchange rate is 100g per crown.

essi2

I'll take a 100k infusion any day, furnishing a guild house is expensive

ZeroDPS

I think we need something to do with this gold inflation....

Northwold

[snip]

The point is that you're targeting something that really does not contribute to inflation to any appreciable degree and actively helps players who are new or not guild members, while you ignore the real drivers of inflation. All your suggestion does is punish players who are not plugged into the problematic areas of the game's economy. Players who are plugged into those areas make a whole lot more gold and couldn't care less about the daily rewards.

Multi character players are a plague of this game but appear to be vastly over represented on this forum compared to the game's general population. If you think the issue comes from multi character players, ask that they stop players from being able to share gold across characters or tax their transfers (either of which moves i would strongly support).

[edited to remove quote]

ZeroDPS

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

do not agree, new players will get about 100k gold in 1 day, just sell junk after every dungeon run or overland runs
its very easy to get gold in the game right now

ZOS_Lunar

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Tommy_The_Gun

I don't think this contributes to "gold inflation", since everyone gets same amount of gold. If in RL you would give same amount of cash to everyone, then manufacturers & traders would have free profit, and increased amount of sales since more people would have extra cash to spend.

As for the "gold inflation", I have my own theory why it is happening. I think the reason behind the current in-game prices going up is a design flaw in the trading system. It was hidden, but after 8 years of adding new content it appeared. And this flaw is basically the fact that apparently, bidding mechanics in ESO Trading system has no cap. This basically means that already huge "gold sink" that Trading Guilds have to pay is getting larger & larger over time.

Initially, bidding system was designed with a certain "forced" guild rotation (it is kinda obvious I guess). So that Initially guilds would not perma-camp one Trading spot. And in the past this was kinda the case. But after a while "the richest" Guilds appeared and they were able to kinda keep top spots almost permanently. The situation was stable for a while and prices were stable.

What happened next is more & more content was added with new spots for trading guilds. This created more "top spots" for trading and the amount "the richest" trading guild increased. Also it is worth mentioning that with the addition of TTC addon & website some trading guilds that had "not so good" trading spots were also able to make more cash. TTC addon also is a perfect tool for re-selling (flipping items) as it makes it super easy to find cheap stuff (if there is any left lol).

Increasing amount of "the richest" trading guilds is probably causing the bidding prices to go up & up as there is more & more top trading guilds fighting over best trading spots. And in the end, this "cost" is "passed on to the customer" - so prices are going up.

joerginger

ZeroDPS wrote: »

show previous quotes

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

do not agree, new players will get about 100k gold in 1 day, just sell junk after every dungeon run or overland runs
its very easy to get gold in the game right now

For me, it had taken many weeks to get the gold for the bank and bag extensions. I definitely didn't find 100 000 gold in one day, unless there perhaps also was such a luxurious login reward. I wouldn't have dared to run a dungeon, of course. That happened only very occasionally with friends.

peacenote

I pay so little attention to prices that I might not have noticed the inflation problem if it weren't for all the posts here. I make 90% of my gold selling white drops and that is always plenty of income for me.

Even still I think 100,000 gold is nice to get and it's not really a significant problem because it is a log in reward, not a repeatable earnable source.

LashanW

ZeroDPS wrote: »

show previous quotes

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

do not agree, new players will get about 100k gold in 1 day, just sell junk after every dungeon run or overland runs
its very easy to get gold in the game right now

100k gold per day? Have you checked this from a new player perspective?
Experienced players on new accounts can do that I guess. No way new players can do that.

My new character on the secondary server (PC-NA) barely has the gold to upgrade bank capacity. Managed to max out the inventory, but that took like a week or two. But I don't have access to antiquities and ESO+ atm. But I did a lot of random normal dungeons and daily battlegrounds.
On my main server (PC-EU) I can make millions per week. There 100k means nothing.

Kiralyn2000

100k gold, over a month, is 3k gold/day.

That's less than a single character's daily crafting writs.

So, no. In the grand scheme of the economy? That 100k gold login reward is basically nothing.


Except for a new player, for whom it's very nice.

Tenthirty2

[snip]
I agree with many others in this thread, 100k helps newer players and doesn't negatively impact the game economy.
When I was a new player that 100,000g would have been a fortune.
Even now when it is a drop in a bucket for me, I'm still happy to receive a gift like that, you can do a LOT with 100k

There are many other reasons for gold\trade-value issues in this game and most are against ToS. It has nothing to do with Zeni and their "dirty golds"

What irritates me more is for a long time the daily rewards had gotten pretty stale and ppl complained about it.
Now Zeni seems to be stepping up the quality of the rewards AND being fair about their order in the month (Not putting 100k on the last day of the month) but we have threads complaining about a nice boon of gold.
Keep it up and they'll go back to poisons, tri pots and food being the most "exciting" things in a month lol.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

EozZoe1989

can the owners of the game put limits on selling things please