adding gasoline to fire

NettleCarrier

If you ever tried to farm that Morrowind Banner you'd know that it's priceless... it's not particularly great looking but it simple does. not. drop. I have maybe 200 hours in that dungeon on and off with guildies and have not seen one. We hardly even get the other furnishings lol.

Amottica

A single 100k giveaway will have little effect on inflation in the long run. It may cause a small blip this month but that is about it.

EdmondDontes

trpajzla wrote: »

As people tried explain ZOS many times
they should not worsen already bad situation with golds and inflation.




Recently an item called "Morrowind Banner of the 6th House" was sold on PC/EU for 150M golds.
It is another example in a row how worthless are golds and how bad is inflation.

If ZOS thinks that giving free 150k golds from daily rewards will help curb raging inflation
well it is not the case.

Or maybe they are eager tp update guildshops and add to max prices limits, because it is only
2.100.000.000 golds now and it will be soon not enough.

Especially if they dont stop pouring new dirty golds to the game and don't do something with daily rewards and writs.

Or maybe they can't wait for the prices like that:

1x heartwood 1M
200x heartwood 200M
1x chromium plating 250M
10x chromium plating 2.500M (over current price limit in guildshop)
1x Morrowind Banner of the 6th House 150 Billion golds (or 150.000.000.000 if you can count all that decimal places)
only 70 times over current max price limit LOL

Compared to what we have gotten for the last year or so in daily login rewards I think maybe people shouldn't be complaining. Personally I'm thankful to see some decent daily login rewards even if it doesn't add up to much for me. The gold is nothing to people like me who have plenty, but for a new player its significant and helps them a lot.

The "upgrades" to the daily login rewards are to be commended, not derided IMO.

Kahnak

Just goes to show that people will find a reason to complain about literally anything - including being handed 100,000g for free.

whitecrow

The only problem I see with this sort of thing is that it devalues the process of earning through playing for new players. But that's true of most of the daily rewards.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

100k gold, over a month, is 3k gold/day.

That's less than a single character's daily crafting writs.

So, no. In the grand scheme of the economy? That 100k gold login reward is basically nothing.


Except for a new player, for whom it's very nice.

You are right, its nothing compared to writs. Writs massively drive inflation, if you want real life proof, nearly everything costs more on PC than console. It's far easier to do writs on PC than console. Its not rocket science. Gold has less value on PC, because its far easier to print gold on PC.

To the OP. I feel you. I would much rather they increase the gold mat drops in these dailies then simply hand out more currency. It is absolutely contributing to the problem, but compared to writs and the ease at which you can print money from them, its a drop in the bucket.

What you will get in response:

1. Inflation isnt real because a few cherry picked items havent gone up in value. Its a 100% an incorrect response, but you will get it.
2. The game needs more gold sinks. True, but only half the equation. If your sink is clogged, first thing you do is turn off the faucet. You need to look at both how gold enters the economy AND how it exists the economy.
3. Ill Take the 100k, thank you very much. Short sighted, but it will be stated.
4. It helps new players. Maybe in the short term, but long term, I am not sure it really does. Inflation is out of control, especially on PC. If you arent actively making 100's of thousands a week, you are getting poor compared to the average player. "When I was a new player, 100k would have been a fortune." True, but when I was a new player, 100k would have been enough to outfit a player in new gold gear. Now its like one piece of gear. LOL

JKorr

So, the sign-in reward is 100k. Yes, for players who have been around a while and do even casual trading it is loose change. For new players though....new players might need it for little things like bank and inventory space, especially if they have more than one character. I can't see the amount actually causing "inflation" and disaster.

Bag space bought from the bag merchants, per character:
60 to 70 bag slots cost 400 gold
70 to 80 bag slots cost 2,000 gold
80 to 90 bag slots cost 5,900 gold
90 to 100 bag slots cost 11,900 gold
100 to 110 bag slots cost 19,200 gold
110 to 120 bag slots cost 30,700 gold
120 to 130 bag slots cost 46,000 gold
130 to 140 bag slots cost 64,500 gold

You can buy bank slots by purchasing upgrades from the banker. Upgrading your bank slots increases the size by 10, from 60 slots to 240 slots. Account wide, thanks be to Akatosh.

60 to 70 bank slots cost 1,000 gold
70 to 80 bank slots cost 3,300 gold
80 to 90 bank slots cost 6,800 gold
90 to 100 bank slots cost 11,400 gold
100 to 110 bank slots cost 20,500 gold
110 to 120 bank slots cost 28,300 gold
120 to 130 bank slots cost 32,700 gold
130 to 140 bank slots cost 37,500 gold
140 to 150 bank slots cost 42,700 gold
150 to 160 bank slots cost 45,000 gold
160 to 170 bank slots cost 50,000 gold
170 to 180 bank slots cost 55,000 gold
180 to 190 bank slots cost 60,000 gold
190 to 200 bank slots cost 65,000 gold
200 to 210 bank slots cost 70,000 gold
210 to 220 bank slots cost 75,000 gold
220 to 230 bank slots cost 80,000 gold
230 to 240 bank slots cost 85,000 gold

I started in beta/early access. Earning gold before traders existed was hard. Getting the bank space that was account wide was an exercise in restraint and self-denial. Buying anything besides inventory and bank space wasn't a good idea, horses cost Jone and Jode if you wanted one that wasn't the generic white imperial horse. 100k reward would have been blessings from the Divines as a new player.

biovitalb16_ESO

I would just like to point out that it sold for that because this item is stupidly rare...so rare in fact this is probably the first one sold in like a year plus.

Didgerion

trpajzla wrote: »

As people tried explain ZOS many times
they should not worsen already bad situation with golds and inflation.




Recently an item called "Morrowind Banner of the 6th House" was sold on PC/EU for 150M golds.
It is another example in a row how worthless are golds and how bad is inflation.

If ZOS thinks that giving free 150k golds from daily rewards will help curb raging inflation
well it is not the case.

Or maybe they are eager tp update guildshops and add to max prices limits, because it is only
2.100.000.000 golds now and it will be soon not enough.

Especially if they dont stop pouring new dirty golds to the game and don't do something with daily rewards and writs.

Or maybe they can't wait for the prices like that:

1x heartwood 1M
200x heartwood 200M
1x chromium plating 250M
10x chromium plating 2.500M (over current price limit in guildshop)
1x Morrowind Banner of the 6th House 150 Billion golds (or 150.000.000.000 if you can count all that decimal places)
only 70 times over current max price limit LOL

And how exactly 150k gold is causing an inflation when all good items sells for millions?
You know, this daily rewards are actually designed for the new players mostly.
It helps them to increase their bag size, buy some training gear and other stuff.

And if we are talking about inflation then I think that it caused mainly by the gold sellers, they flush tons of gold into the players hand for a small fee so they could afford the expensive items. As the result the expensive items sell fast and they get more expensive as result.

Didgerion

JKorr wrote: »

So, the sign-in reward is 100k. Yes, for players who have been around a while and do even casual trading it is loose change. For new players though....new players might need it for little things like bank and inventory space, especially if they have more than one character. I can't see the amount actually causing "inflation" and disaster.

Bag space bought from the bag merchants, per character:
60 to 70 bag slots cost 400 gold
70 to 80 bag slots cost 2,000 gold
80 to 90 bag slots cost 5,900 gold
90 to 100 bag slots cost 11,900 gold
100 to 110 bag slots cost 19,200 gold
110 to 120 bag slots cost 30,700 gold
120 to 130 bag slots cost 46,000 gold
130 to 140 bag slots cost 64,500 gold

You can buy bank slots by purchasing upgrades from the banker. Upgrading your bank slots increases the size by 10, from 60 slots to 240 slots. Account wide, thanks be to Akatosh.

60 to 70 bank slots cost 1,000 gold
70 to 80 bank slots cost 3,300 gold
80 to 90 bank slots cost 6,800 gold
90 to 100 bank slots cost 11,400 gold
100 to 110 bank slots cost 20,500 gold
110 to 120 bank slots cost 28,300 gold
120 to 130 bank slots cost 32,700 gold
130 to 140 bank slots cost 37,500 gold
140 to 150 bank slots cost 42,700 gold
150 to 160 bank slots cost 45,000 gold
160 to 170 bank slots cost 50,000 gold
170 to 180 bank slots cost 55,000 gold
180 to 190 bank slots cost 60,000 gold
190 to 200 bank slots cost 65,000 gold
200 to 210 bank slots cost 70,000 gold
210 to 220 bank slots cost 75,000 gold
220 to 230 bank slots cost 80,000 gold
230 to 240 bank slots cost 85,000 gold

I started in beta/early access. Earning gold before traders existed was hard. Getting the bank space that was account wide was an exercise in restraint and self-denial. Buying anything besides inventory and bank space wasn't a good idea, horses cost Jone and Jode if you wanted one that wasn't the generic white imperial horse. 100k reward would have been blessings from the Divines as a new player.

Oh yeah I remember those time, it took me a while to gather enough gold for the best horse lol, fun times.

Veinblood1965

Somewhere I've read something in regards to not making all the people happy all the time? I never believed that saying was true until now.

Troodon80

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

I would just like to point out that it sold for that because this item is stupidly rare...so rare in fact this is probably the first one sold in like a year plus.

Last one allegedly sold last month for around 300m on PC-EU (I say allegedly since that record only seems to go back as far as 22-May). So if we look at inflation from that angle, it's actually gone down. It is stupidly rare and it's not a good example of anything due to this. Better to simply use upgrade materials (source: UESP (EU, NA)) as an example which more accurately represents the current inflation.

Tandor

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

As well as for those experienced players who choose to have nothing to do with the broken trading system in this game. Not broken, I hear traders say? Well, this thread among others would strongly suggest otherwise.

MudcrabAttack

My only gripe about inflation is the high cost of golding out gear, especially jewelry. But that’s easily overcome after enough trial runs, where you can recreate gold jewelry with the best trait at the low cost of 25-40ish transmute stones. Otherwise what’s so bad about inflation? I’m playing the game for hours each day, not into doing writs at all, and I feel dissociated from the market apart from purchasing cheap potions. Or until I’m about to sell some motifs, then suddenly see the jaw dropping price I get to charge for them

I imagine a new player could simply farm mats for a few hours and net enough gold to expand all their bag space and get a horse and house and furnishings. It wasn’t that easy at the start

NettleCarrier

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

I imagine a new player could simply farm mats for a few hours and net enough gold to expand all their bag space and get a horse and house and furnishings. It wasn’t that easy at the start

I tell this to so many new players and they don't believe me. Instead they want to beg in zone chat for 10k gold when it would take a few minutes of harvesting to get that much in materials which I'd happily buy from them. If they *really* want a style page and it's 100k they act like it's out of reach and don't believe me when I say they could easily make that in 30 minutes to an hour (closer to the hour maybe since they aren't experienced) lol.

Inflation IS an issue in this game, but a large chunk of it is still fair to the new player because they get paid way more for harvesting the more prices go up. I can't remember the last time I purposely harvested anything that I wasn't tripping over on the way somewhere, and I'm okay with that. I know my place in the supply chain :P

Ingenon

ZOS, thanks for the 100K daily login reward!

Separately, I do not think that ZOS can fix the issue with inflation on the PC megaservers by daily login rewards.

Fenris_Arainai

ZeroDPS wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

do not agree, new players will get about 100k gold in 1 day, just sell junk after every dungeon run or overland runs
its very easy to get gold in the game right now

That is simply not true. I'm not a new player, but created first character on a new server, and he's level 21 and had less than 5K gold. A new player would know even less how to make gold fast. So no, you can't make 100K gold in one day on a level 1 toon when you barely know what's going on, since you're new to the game.

100K reward is very helpful.

Vaoh

Our of curiosity what are the prices of the typical gold mats on PC NA? Wax, Rosin, Alloys, etc

FlopsyPrince

Why are Crowns so much more expensive on PC EU than PC NA if addons for crafting are "the problem"?

Crowns are cheaper on console because fewer people want them clearly. I never sold Crowns on my PS4 accounts, because the gold price was far too low and not worth it.

I got many characters (on both PS4 NA and PS4 EU) to max crafting level and ended up leaving 2 mil on each account. And that was with skipping daily crafting for many days since it is a grind.

I had plenty more motifs to learn on each, but I finally gave it up for the ease of addons on the PS4. (Leaving so much behind still irks me, something ZOS should pay attention to, but they do not.)

I did finally sell Crowns on PC-EU since the price was so high. Selling 1 14K Crown house gave me more gold than I will need for quite some time there, without waiting for the full grind to get there. I am still building up 8-9 characters there, because I am an altoholic. (In all the MMOs I play.)

The Crown price on PC-NA is not quite high enough for me to really sell them. I can make gold quickly enough, especially if I sell my Master Writs instead of storing them up. (At least the ones I can't make.)

Inflation will always happen in any game like this.

Some things will always sell for a lot, due to rarity. The OP complaining about one item is rather silly since that item clearly is very rare. It should sell for a lot! Only 1 person can have it after all!

ForzaRammer

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

No it doesn’t, new player have no access to alloy and wax, 100k gold is not enough to upgrade weapons at this point. It actually lower the purchase power of little gold new player got from questing

jaws343

ForzaRammer wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

No it doesn’t, new player have no access to alloy and wax, 100k gold is not enough to upgrade weapons at this point. It actually lower the purchase power of little gold new player got from questing

It's a perfectly hefty amount of gold for newer players on 2 out of the 3 platforms, and a complete drop in the bucket for most established players on all 3 platforms.

On xbox NA, tempering alloy goes for 4.5K a piece, and is the most expensive upgrade mat at the moment (non jewelry). So perfectly reasonable for a newer player to gold out some gear with 100K gold. Or, as the poster you quoted said, buy banker, inventory, and mount upgrades.

For established players, 100K gold is meaningless anyways. I can make 100K gold overnight with almost no effort. I spent 100K gold yesterday on a few plans and some unlearned set pieces.

100K gold isn't going to have any impact on PC inflation (the only platform that really has it) and isn't going to suddenly cause inflation on the other platforms.

Wandering_Immigrant

I agree OP. And to the people saying 100k is a drop in the ocean or whatever, it's actually not 100k it's literally billions being added to the economy.

For a bit of perspective let's look at the average larger guild, since people like to say that kiosk bids are the only meaningful gold sink. We'll say the average (larger guils) has 400 members, since not all are going to have 500. That's 40,000,000 gold being added to the game by one guild alone. There's 18 guilds located in the Capitol cities, that's 720,000,000 gold. And that's just from the people contributing the most to gold sinking, once you add all the non capitol traders, the social guilds, and then the players not in guilds at all, it gets absolutely astronomically ridiculous. Even dividing the total by 5 to adjust for overlap by assuming every player is in 5 guilds, the total number would blow your mind.

So you're right, 100k is a drop in the ocean for a single player, which is ironically exactly why it's not worth the damage that it does, even for new players. Especially for new players, who are going to be the ones struggling in that inflated economy and that 100k is not going to fix it for them.

Now, all that said, I'm on console thankfully, and our economy is great for the time being. But I still cringe every time I see these 100k daily rewards.

ForzaRammer

jaws343 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

No it doesn’t, new player have no access to alloy and wax, 100k gold is not enough to upgrade weapons at this point. It actually lower the purchase power of little gold new player got from questing

It's a perfectly hefty amount of gold for newer players on 2 out of the 3 platforms, and a complete drop in the bucket for most established players on all 3 platforms.

On xbox NA, tempering alloy goes for 4.5K a piece, and is the most expensive upgrade mat at the moment (non jewelry). So perfectly reasonable for a newer player to gold out some gear with 100K gold. Or, as the poster you quoted said, buy banker, inventory, and mount upgrades.

For established players, 100K gold is meaningless anyways. I can make 100K gold overnight with almost no effort. I spent 100K gold yesterday on a few plans and some unlearned set pieces.

100K gold isn't going to have any impact on PC inflation (the only platform that really has it) and isn't going to suddenly cause inflation on the other platforms.

You are talking about xbox, nvm then. people on console does way less repeated quests, trials and excavation. On PC all these are huge direct gold injections into the circulation.

I agree the 100k gold contribute to inflation less than those daily quest gold and trial plunders. But it still add gold into circulation, and it’s a bad idea when there is already hyperinflation (like on PC)

jaws343

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I agree OP. And to the people saying 100k is a drop in the ocean or whatever, it's actually not 100k it's literally billions being added to the economy.

For a bit of perspective let's look at the average larger guild, since people like to say that kiosk bids are the only meaningful gold sink. We'll say the average (larger guils) has 400 members, since not all are going to have 500. That's 40,000,000 gold being added to the game by one guild alone. There's 18 guilds located in the Capitol cities, that's 720,000,000 gold. And that's just from the people contributing the most to gold sinking, once you add all the non capitol traders, the social guilds, and then the players not in guilds at all, it gets absolutely astronomically ridiculous. Even dividing the total by 5 to adjust for overlap by assuming every player is in 5 guilds, the total number would blow your mind.

So you're right, 100k is a drop in the ocean for a single player, which is ironically exactly why it's not worth the damage that it does, even for new players. Especially for new players, who are going to be the ones struggling in that inflated economy and that 100k is not going to fix it for them.

Now, all that said, I'm on console thankfully, and our economy is great for the time being. But I still cringe every time I see these 100k daily rewards.

Arguably. let's say that trade guild of 400 members are all solid, established traders. I consider myself that, I have 10M in my bank, should be much higher but I splurged around 10M during the last anniversary event. So, let's just say 10M average per player in that trade guild. That trade guild of 400 has 4 Billion gold as a group. 40 million gold being added into a pile of 4 billion is meaningless to those players and literally does nothing to move the needle on pricing or anything for that matter for those players.

But, your new player who barely has 20K to their name, 100K is going to do a lot for them.

Northwold

Fenris_Arainai wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Free gold is pretty helpful for newer players. Because things like inventory and banker upgrades and mount upgrades are not affected by inflation.

do not agree, new players will get about 100k gold in 1 day, just sell junk after every dungeon run or overland runs
its very easy to get gold in the game right now

That is simply not true. I'm not a new player, but created first character on a new server, and he's level 21 and had less than 5K gold. A new player would know even less how to make gold fast. So no, you can't make 100K gold in one day on a level 1 toon when you barely know what's going on, since you're new to the game.

100K reward is very helpful.

Bear in mind that many, many people here assume that everyone is a member of a guild and sells with a guild. It can be a bit confusing at times (as if people who don't participate in guilds are an alien species) but that's often why people say you can make [insert highly improbable amount of gold for any player who doesn't use guilds] per day.

meekmiko

More goldsinks would help.
Release more houses and mounts with the option to be bought with gold.

Marginis

I think that logic is flawed. That inflation - the kind you're worried about, anyway, isn't from a few handouts every year or so. That kind of inflation is from players manipulating (or playing, if you prefer the softer language) the market. Those players aren't really affected by 100k, as to them it's such a small drop in the bucket. At most, they take advantage of the players who wouldn't otherwise have the extra capital to spend, and go on spending sprees they otherwise wouldn't.

Really what the 100k drops do is give players who don't hoard gold something to add to the economy, or get their own trading started. A lot I know just dump it into the high initial costs of game things, like inventory expansion, or use it to trade for crowns for their one cool mount. Inflation is a minor and indirect effect of what is really a huge boon to many players.

If you want to curb inflation (and solve a bunch of other problems) I recommend instead starting with the bot problem, rather than daily rewards.

rootkitronin

Marginis wrote: »

If you want to curb inflation (and solve a bunch of other problems) I recommend instead starting with the bot problem, rather than daily rewards.

Don't disagree with this, but injections of gold can't be helping the situation either.

Although daily rewards may not be the solution to the problem (I think many different solutions are going to be needed to fully address the issues)... adjusting them would be a very quick and easy win compared to tackling the bots, even if it's only a small victory, it would at least be a step in the right direction (maybe?).

Are there any actual economists or financial experts here though? I would legitimately love to hear some qualified insight and advice on how to resolve this issue - because from my limited understanding, it's a problem a lot of MMO's end up having.

wolfie1.0.

trpajzla wrote: »

As people tried explain ZOS many times
they should not worsen already bad situation with golds and inflation.




Recently an item called "Morrowind Banner of the 6th House" was sold on PC/EU for 150M golds.
It is another example in a row how worthless are golds and how bad is inflation.

If ZOS thinks that giving free 150k golds from daily rewards will help curb raging inflation
well it is not the case.

Or maybe they are eager tp update guildshops and add to max prices limits, because it is only
2.100.000.000 golds now and it will be soon not enough.

Especially if they dont stop pouring new dirty golds to the game and don't do something with daily rewards and writs.

Or maybe they can't wait for the prices like that:

1x heartwood 1M
200x heartwood 200M
1x chromium plating 250M
10x chromium plating 2.500M (over current price limit in guildshop)
1x Morrowind Banner of the 6th House 150 Billion golds (or 150.000.000.000 if you can count all that decimal places)
only 70 times over current max price limit LOL

I mean I guess we could all volunteer to delete several million gold each...

Kiralyn2000

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I agree OP. And to the people saying 100k is a drop in the ocean or whatever, it's actually not 100k it's literally billions being added to the economy.

For a bit of perspective let's look at the average larger guild, since people like to say that kiosk bids are the only meaningful gold sink. We'll say the average (larger guils) has 400 members, since not all are going to have 500. That's 40,000,000 gold being added to the game by one guild alone. There's 18 guilds located in the Capitol cities, that's 720,000,000 gold..

And yet, 40mil gold is just ~9500 characters doing a set of daily writs (4200 gold). Or just 1200 players doing writs on 8 characters. Which happens every day, not once a month.

Plus there's all the other delve/zone/dungeon dailies, grinding, selling excess junk to vendors, etc.

Yes, when you apply MATH!™, that 100k gold turns into Scary Big Numbers.

...which still are barely a drop in the bucket, because Even Scarier & Bigger Numbers are being generated every single day.

And that's why there's inflation. Not because of one little giveaway.