Arctic Blast is Bad. Real Bad.

Nser

on the topic of class skill being inferior to weapon skill
why does Natures embrace cost me 3807 at base on the build editor, heals 2 targets and tooltips for 5880 over 10 seconds while Radiating regen costs 2538, heals 3 targets and tooltips for 6522 over 10 seconds + doesnt require a target

i am aware the natures gift passive could technically restore 2k magicka back over the duration making the cost obviously more in line with RR but thats taking away natures gift procs u could have gotten anyways from maybe trellis on an ally or Green lotus passive healing on light to an ally or budding seed.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I agree, it needs a rework at this point, most people already dropped it after they nerfed the healing some patches ago

As i've stated before many times i think that a great way to rework the arctic blast morph is with this suggestion:



in short:

• Remove the healing and defensive iteration of the stun from this skill (we literally have green balance for the dps's healing skills, we don't need any more magicka/stamina scaling healing skills. i see this suggestion a lot, to turn the heal into a magicka and stamina scaling one, don't need that. We just need to make the ones we currently have in the Green Balance line, better.)
• double it's duration and ticks to allow the skill to be a lot more useful in pve
• Make the initial cast also spawn a fast moving line-traveling aoe frost tornado that deals some damage to enemies it passes through and stuns the first enemy it hits.

this will achieve the following:

• It will give us an on-demand offensive ranged stun that has synergy and works with specifically well with Scorch and Northern Storm.
• it will finally give us another dps skill to use on our builds in pve, and specifically a frost damage skill with very noticible visuals increasing the build variety and identity of warden skills to chose from, Frost Damage builds currently lack frost damage skills.
• it will make wardens less obnoxious to fight against in close range as you aren't randomly stunned and the warden had to put legitimate thought, and, aim behind stunning you.

I have a pure ice mage meaning no other skills at all period, he needs that heal.

Mr_Stach

I mean Polar Winds is still a pretty nice heal.

MashmalloMan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean Polar Winds is still a pretty nice heal.

Yeah, I'd say make that the defacto heal morph instead of both of them. The initial heal also heals a nearby ally is a pretty odd morph effect in my opinion for a % based heal, which is primarily intended for tanks, not healers. Why not let the healers heal and the tanks tank. Give it an effect that helps the caster.

Spitballing here, but as a tank based heal, why doesn't it do something like apply cowardice to attackers or maim or something, something the kit needs.

Then you could have 1 morph be the defensive option and 1 be the offensive option.

ESO_Nightingale

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I agree, it needs a rework at this point, most people already dropped it after they nerfed the healing some patches ago

As i've stated before many times i think that a great way to rework the arctic blast morph is with this suggestion:



in short:

• Remove the healing and defensive iteration of the stun from this skill (we literally have green balance for the dps's healing skills, we don't need any more magicka/stamina scaling healing skills. i see this suggestion a lot, to turn the heal into a magicka and stamina scaling one, don't need that. We just need to make the ones we currently have in the Green Balance line, better.)
• double it's duration and ticks to allow the skill to be a lot more useful in pve
• Make the initial cast also spawn a fast moving line-traveling aoe frost tornado that deals some damage to enemies it passes through and stuns the first enemy it hits.

this will achieve the following:

• It will give us an on-demand offensive ranged stun that has synergy and works with specifically well with Scorch and Northern Storm.
• it will finally give us another dps skill to use on our builds in pve, and specifically a frost damage skill with very noticible visuals increasing the build variety and identity of warden skills to chose from, Frost Damage builds currently lack frost damage skills.
• it will make wardens less obnoxious to fight against in close range as you aren't randomly stunned and the warden had to put legitimate thought, and, aim behind stunning you.

I have a pure ice mage meaning no other skills at all period, he needs that heal.

I agree with stach. You can swap to polar if you want the heal. It even ranks up in healing done.

Nser

if there will be stuns elsewhere in the warden toolkit to compensate then i think polar being the healing tank and arctic being the offensive dmg morph is reasonable.

Nser

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean Polar Winds is still a pretty nice heal.

Yeah, I'd say make that the defacto heal morph instead of both of them. The initial heal also heals a nearby ally is a pretty odd morph effect in my opinion for a % based heal, which is primarily intended for tanks, not healers. Why not let the healers heal and the tanks tank. Give it an effect that helps the caster.

Spitballing here, but as a tank based heal, why doesn't it do something like apply cowardice to attackers or maim or something, something the kit needs.

Then you could have 1 morph be the defensive option and 1 be the offensive option.

i agree Polar healing an ally is odd for a tanking skill. Polar is roughly 300 magicka more expensive than arctic being aoe so instead of healing another person i would like to ask for a base morph cost reduction if we're going the route of one morph defense one morph offense.

SEINTDARKNES

Nser wrote: »

on the topic of class skill being inferior to weapon skill
why does Natures embrace cost me 3807 at base on the build editor, heals 2 targets and tooltips for 5880 over 10 seconds while Radiating regen costs 2538, heals 3 targets and tooltips for 6522 over 10 seconds + doesnt require a target

i am aware the natures gift passive could technically restore 2k magicka back over the duration making the cost obviously more in line with RR but thats taking away natures gift procs u could have gotten anyways from maybe trellis on an ally or Green lotus passive healing on light to an ally or budding seed.

Don't forget you can get stun while traveling and the speed is so sloooooow, unless you are close to the ppl you want to heal you will never get in time to heal.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

on the topic of class skill being inferior to weapon skill
why does Natures embrace cost me 3807 at base on the build editor, heals 2 targets and tooltips for 5880 over 10 seconds while Radiating regen costs 2538, heals 3 targets and tooltips for 6522 over 10 seconds + doesnt require a target

i am aware the natures gift passive could technically restore 2k magicka back over the duration making the cost obviously more in line with RR but thats taking away natures gift procs u could have gotten anyways from maybe trellis on an ally or Green lotus passive healing on light to an ally or budding seed.

Don't forget you can get stun while traveling and the speed is so sloooooow, unless you are close to the ppl you want to heal you will never get in time to heal.

don't worry they nerfed it again by another 10% and crippled the already useless bursting vines lol

Mr_Stach

Once again I think Zos has a window of viability for all abilities but they for some reason put Universal Skills above Class Specific Skills, making Class Abilities just worse than Universal skills.

I think they should lower the effectiveness of the Universal Skills, then we can work on actually seeing how viable or not viable Class Abilities are then adjust from there.

Aldoss

Vizir wrote: »

Sure I'm not saying bird of prey is better but it's not that much worse, can run shuffle or fm for the snare/root immunity.

I play magden. Again, not wrong, but not much of an incentive to run a class skill, when I can just run rat and not lose another skill slot.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

on the topic of class skill being inferior to weapon skill
why does Natures embrace cost me 3807 at base on the build editor, heals 2 targets and tooltips for 5880 over 10 seconds while Radiating regen costs 2538, heals 3 targets and tooltips for 6522 over 10 seconds + doesnt require a target

i am aware the natures gift passive could technically restore 2k magicka back over the duration making the cost obviously more in line with RR but thats taking away natures gift procs u could have gotten anyways from maybe trellis on an ally or Green lotus passive healing on light to an ally or budding seed.

Don't forget you can get stun while traveling and the speed is so sloooooow, unless you are close to the ppl you want to heal you will never get in time to heal.

don't worry they nerfed it again by another 10% and crippled the already useless bursting vines lol

I know right? I never i mean really never i have seen any warden healer or really anybody use this skill because is slow and you don't get in time, the skill is really boring, isn't cheap, i don't think the morph effects are really appealing, need to put the cross on top of the player you want to heal and i think the worst part is single target, try to heal the ppl you want to heal in a trial where at least 10 players stack together xD

I try to use this skill in pvp too without success because have similar problems.

Mr_Stach

I still wish the Nature Tree had more CC things vs just Healing. Like a morph for Vines to pull a helpless foe to you and give them minor Defile, or Leeching Vines you can put on a enemy to Root and do Bleed damage, healing you for damage done.

YandereGirlfriend

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I still wish the Nature Tree had more CC things vs just Healing. Like a morph for Vines to pull a helpless foe to you and give them minor Defile, or Leeching Vines you can put on a enemy to Root and do Bleed damage, healing you for damage done.

LOVING this idea for Leeching Vines. Thematic and fills a needed niche.

Mr_Stach

After playing so many years playing a Druid in WoW and DnD, not having some sort of Nature Themed CC really feels weird. Hopefully Zos will look at it in the future

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

After playing so many years playing a Druid in WoW and DnD, not having some sort of Nature Themed CC really feels weird. Hopefully Zos will look at it in the future

For me i kinda don't mind too much what theme the cc is. I just want a damn offensive ranged and on demand stun. That being said it looks like they want winter's embrace to be the line that stuns.

LeHarrt91

Mr_Stach wrote: »

After playing so many years playing a Druid in WoW and DnD, not having some sort of Nature Themed CC really feels weird. Hopefully Zos will look at it in the future

Well, i believe the Bear does have a weird stun somehere in all the attacks it does, but its random and worse than Arctic lol

SEINTDARKNES

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

After playing so many years playing a Druid in WoW and DnD, not having some sort of Nature Themed CC really feels weird. Hopefully Zos will look at it in the future

Well, i believe the Bear does have a weird stun somehere in all the attacks it does, but its random and worse than Arctic lol

We are going to go there humm? Well in that case is weird having an execution in a ultimate and not having one on demand too.

Mr_Stach

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

should be fine, the current issue i have with fetcher is that it's 2nd cast mechanic thing makes no sense. why does it randomly do 50% more damage on the second cast? if it did up to 100% more dmg to targets below 50% health it'd balance it out more.

Mr_Stach

With the Bear aside, Warden is missing a distinct Execute. Fetcher would be a great spot to add an execute.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

should be fine, the current issue i have with fetcher is that it's 2nd cast mechanic thing makes no sense. why does it randomly do 50% more damage on the second cast? if it did up to 100% more dmg to targets below 50% health it'd balance it out more.

Oh well if you put it that way, yeah i agree with that, doesn't make sense having to spam to times one skill for doing more damage, a flat bonus will be better like you say.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

With the Bear aside, Warden is missing a distinct Execute. Fetcher would be a great spot to add an execute.

It wouldn't be distinct since it'd be pretty similar to poison injection, but the idea is to add it as a passive execute alongside bear claw to balance out execute a little bit more

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

should be fine, the current issue i have with fetcher is that it's 2nd cast mechanic thing makes no sense. why does it randomly do 50% more damage on the second cast? if it did up to 100% more dmg to targets below 50% health it'd balance it out more.

Oh well if you put it that way, yeah i agree with that, doesn't make sense having to spam to times one skill for doing more damage, a flat bonus will be better like you say.

Yeah. It's just about consistency instead of a random huge bonus on 2nd cast.

TheHeroCat

I think it would be cool if atleast polar wind scaled more!

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

should be fine, the current issue i have with fetcher is that it's 2nd cast mechanic thing makes no sense. why does it randomly do 50% more damage on the second cast? if it did up to 100% more dmg to targets below 50% health it'd balance it out more.

Oh well if you put it that way, yeah i agree with that, doesn't make sense having to spam to times one skill for doing more damage, a flat bonus will be better like you say.

Yeah. It's just about consistency instead of a random huge bonus on 2nd cast.

Yes, getting benefit on every cast

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would like a Stun and a Execute...... And while we're at it an offensive synergy. Like on Winter's Revenge or something.

honestly if anything deserves an offensive synergy it's probably frozen retreat getting reworked. in terms of an execute, i think fetcher getting reworked or some passive execute based on chilled application would be best. but of course, the most pressing thing is the offensive ranged stun that is on demand.

I think dot executions like poison injection or brutal carnage are not that good and if we get an execution on fetcher will be bad too, i think it's because dot executions don't scale that high only 100% more damge but the problem is they can't be spammed for more damage like a traditional execution.

And yes you are right 100% agree with you, we need an on demand offensive stun.

should be fine, the current issue i have with fetcher is that it's 2nd cast mechanic thing makes no sense. why does it randomly do 50% more damage on the second cast? if it did up to 100% more dmg to targets below 50% health it'd balance it out more.

Oh well if you put it that way, yeah i agree with that, doesn't make sense having to spam to times one skill for doing more damage, a flat bonus will be better like you say.

Yeah. It's just about consistency instead of a random huge bonus on 2nd cast.

Yes, getting benefit on every cast

yep, it really should, i honestly have no idea why they decided to make it do more damage on the 2nd cast in the first place, it's just janky for literally no reason.

JanTanhide

It gets worse and worse as ZOS keeps messing with skills.