PTS Update 34 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

Glantir

The Sorc changes are very good for Stam Sorcs playing with Magicka Abilities.

But for Mag Sorcs there is no really good Stamina option, Bound Armaments with Cfrag feels very very strange to play and before the chapter it wasnt good at all.

Maybe with the possibility to proc Cfrag with BA its good but we will see after some tests....

Mayrael

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Nightblade

Mark target + moprhs : need to have its identity straighten out, its max health scaling heal tell its a tank skill but its on kill condition says it DD one, duration is really not an issue here, its free to cast already

Refreshing path : while I expected some synergy instead the added buff are welcome, though as pointed out the skill has no initial tick making it easy for allies to just walk out of the AOE before it apply any heal/effect

Teleport strike and morphs : Still has issue due to cast time to function reliably (breakign LOS, target with high ground ect)

Consuming darkness + morphs : Since Eslweyr expansion came out the only selling point of this tank utility ult has been rendered useless while its high cost remained unchanged.

Major protection is no longer a valid main buff and should be replaced with a unique high damage mitigation buff instead

This class ultimate is still the worst class ultimate of the game by a long shot for years on end

Aspect of terror + morphs : Had its debuffs removed a long time ago to become nothing more than a bog standart CC overshadowed by ANY other AOE CC avaiable

I am suprised that despite being stated to be looking into underused morph/skill those two skills wich people have been complaining for YEARS to have fallen to the point of being absolutely useless remained unadressed, I hope to see some change in the near future

As for Aspect of terror and Consuming darkness if I'm being honest they are so useless skils for me that I completely forgot about their existence and frankly I don't count on it changing suddenly. How can you compare for example Corrosive Armor of DK and Consuming Darkness of NB? The costs are the same and one skill gives you near immortality and an incredible damage buff (probably the biggest of all available skils) and the other? Well, it gives you a ridiculous 10% immunity almost as much as a regular Major Resolve and useless synergy. I really see that ZOS has taken a serious approach to the topic /sarcasm.

Likewise the aspect of terror. It used to be a unique skill only available to NB. And now? Hypnosis and Turn Evil are doing almost the same thing (one is doing it in slightly different way but in bigger area and much cheaper, while the other has additional actions) but the funniest thing is when we compare Mass Hysteria with Streak of Sorc. Streak deals damage, has a larger area, serves as gap opener and gap closer (it's also a teleport skill like Teleport Strike but somehow it doesn't require cast time O_o) and its first cast costs the same as Mass Hysteria.

To sum up. Buffs for NB presented in patch notes are just pretend buffs because nothing really changes, useless skils remain useless because their basic function is bad and no additional features will change that.

For example, to use new Ambush features you have to use this skill, which in most cases is impossible because the target is either out of range when you finish casting the skill, or you can't see him anymore, or lags make it impossible to use it. Not to mention that cast time takes away attack momentum completely ruining your offensive.

NB was destroyed and over the years when other classes received numerous buffs and skil changes for NB most things changed for the worse or remained untouched, now that we were promised to focus on class skils once again classes like DK or sorc receive buffs in already popular skils while NB is being forced into pseudo buffs that add nothing to the equation.

Unfortunately the cards have already been presented and it would be naive to believe that anything significant will change. As for me, my initial hopes for the new chapter have been dashed.

wheresbes

I was expecting more for blade. While I do feel is part of the class identity to rely on damage done, on kills, etc. (and I like it), I think it doesn't work in the current state of the game.

You could buff drain power to 100 sec, still, people are not going to use it because 1. in pvp you want to open up with major sorc/brut up 2. In pve you can't spam it and you usually build for boss fights - especially so if you're on console and can't swap gear between pulls with an add on.

I fail to see the use of mark target as well, so a buff there is not really a buff. I mean, the skill is useful, but 1. in pve there are many skills that have priority over that, so, no bar space for it, 2. in pvp you ain't gonna use it for ganking because that's like signalling "hey, I'm going to attack you", and if you want to use it for the reveal, other revealing skills offer better passives, so no bar space for it either.

So, blade "buffs" don't seem buffs to me since they revolve around skills that are not much used.

Anyway, I'm actually happy for the ambush change, I see its potential in pve, but will need to test it.

@Mayrael I agree with you, except for the fact that blade is not a ranged class.

I also agree with @master_vanargand, major sorcery/brutality would be best on siphoning strikes.
Also, since we have the grim focus minigame we have to slot front bar BOTH our spammable and grim so, having on grim focus a useful passive, like major savagery/prophecy, would help with bar space issues.

Mayrael

wheresbes wrote: »

I was expecting more for blade. While I do feel is part of the class identity to rely on damage done, on kills, etc. (and I like it), I think it doesn't work in the current state of the game.

You could buff drain power to 100 sec, still, people are not going to use it because 1. in pvp you want to open up with major sorc/brut up 2. In pve you can't spam it and you usually build for boss fights - especially so if you're on console and can't swap gear between pulls with an add on.

I fail to see the use of mark target as well, so a buff there is not really a buff. I mean, the skill is useful, but 1. in pve there are many skills that have priority over that, so, no bar space for it, 2. in pvp you ain't gonna use it for ganking because that's like signalling "hey, I'm going to attack you", and if you want to use it for the reveal, other revealing skills offer better passives, so no bar space for it either.

So, blade "buffs" don't seem buffs to me since they revolve around skills that are not much used.

Anyway, I'm actually happy for the ambush change, I see its potential in pve, but will need to test it.

@Mayrael I agree with you, except for the fact that blade is not a ranged class.

I also agree with @master_vanargand, major sorcery/brutality would be best on siphoning strikes.
Also, since we have the grim focus minigame we have to slot front bar BOTH our spammable and grim so, having on grim focus a useful passive, like major savagery/prophecy, would help with bar space issues.

I know the division between stam and mag blade is rather outdated but stamina NB has always been more focused on melee while magblade was almost exclusively ranged. I wrote this from a ranged perspective because stamblade have long used rally as a source of major brutality, because simply 2h is a brilliant PvP weapon for melee, unfortunately ranged blade doesn't have that option, it has to either rely on weapon that can't be used to do LA weawing or on skills that require a target, generally all not very convenient or fun.

Extremly bad patch for NBs taking into consideration that other classes recieve some nice and USEFUL buffs.

Dovahmiim

My suspicion is that ZOS are a little out of touch with what is strong in PvP currently.

I'm sure the changes made to the physical damage bear will make it super strong in PvE, likely better than the magic damage bear. Ok great, now there is clearly a best in slot morph for PvE, is there a chance the other morph can be redesigned in to a viable PvP skill? I have zero faith in the pathing/mechanics of the bear ever being useful aside providing annoying LOS cheese in a 1v1, although even then bear is a far worse option than any alternative ult. Without suggesting anything in particular, one thing is clear, for bear to be a viable PvP ultimate, it must be untargetable (otherwise it will just die when fighting outnumbered), and it must provide utility other than just a damage amp versus a stationary single target (to avoid being relegated to duels cheese). Something more akin to a one-bar offense ultimate similar to a selenes proc might be a step in the right direction.

The crystal slab changes are interesting, although I suspect it will remain a skill primarily to cheese ranged opponents in 1v1. Worth testing, can't write it off yet.

Fissure change is definitely a good move, although recently having made the move to magcro, I found that my blastbones (either morph) hit miles harder than fissure, even when my Magden was always in super high damage setup. Could be a result of having to stack HP to have a working heal, hard to say. I would have thought a more productive change would be to let fissure stun chilled or off balance opponents, while boosting the damage slightly to make it competitive with blastbones.

ARCTIC BLAST: "Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play." This is completely false, absolutely no above average PvPer thinks this, I guarantee a ZOS dev has got clapped by a warden and complained internally until the stun got nerfed. Warden has no line up burst to speak of, other than the standard fissure + DC combo, in which a stun is included anyway.

Range: With the skill's current range, it is borderline impossible to stun a fast moving player, especially on very high ping.
I think a range increase to 8-10m could be a good idea, although perhaps that is overdoing it.

Stun Tick Count: I believe a 3 second grace period has been added now, so one aspect has been solved, although if this doesnt carry over with successive casts then it is useless (ie. 2 ticks from first cast + 3 ticks from second = stun). The most glaring issue with the skill, especially if the required ticks goes up to 5 in order to stun, is that ticks landed before CC immunity expires, do NOT count towards the tick count leading to the next stun. What this means is that on live currently, at absolute best, you can stun an enemy every 9-10 seconds, although in practice against a moving target that rate is far lower. Now imagine if this count is increased to 5, at best you can stun an enemy every 11-12 seconds, and will have far less knowledge of when the stun will land. Currently you can count the ticks landed if you are paying attention, as to know when you can afford to go full offense and ignore defense. If changes go live, forget that, Arctic will just stun at random times for every party involved, this is a horrible idea.

I appreciate ZOS's intention to make warden a little more viable in PvP, outside of being a pure healbot (at which other classes are basically just as strong). Some of the changes were steps in the right direction, others not. As it stands, Warden will remain easily the weakest and least played class in PvP, being miles worse than the current brawl powerhouses, Templar and DK.

While I am sure no changes will be made to these skills this year, it is worth mentioning the list of 100% obsolete Warden skills in PvP.

Cliff Racer: Compared to ele weapon, it is harder to land (long travel time), less overall damage in practice, less cost effective (due to ele weapon mag return mechanic), BUT sets enemy off balance allowing for a potential medium weave stun. Warden's are useless as casters, so a ranged off balance source is useless as you cannot capitalise on it. On live, using flame clench + ele weapon non a ranged Magden is 10x better than trying to make Cliff Racer work. My suggestion would just be to rework it entirely from being a generic thematic spammable, and give it combo potential with better spammables such as ele weapon or vamp scratch.

Bird of Prey: Some warden's still use this as they think the damage amp is meaningful, however in practice it provides very little damage increase (from testing roughly 4% total), and camo hunter is just a better source of minor berserk anyway, especially if you need a crit buff. Now comparing to race against time, 2s more of speed is useless if you're snared in any way (which with cyro being 90% DKs, you WILL be snared or rooted). So as a mobility skill, it is useless in practice for most situations in PvP, and basically equal to race against time in the unlikely situation you arent being snared. Considering race against time can be backbarred while retaining minor force, there is absolutely zero reason to slot bird of prey in PvP.

Fetcher infection is fairly trash too, but cant be bothered typing more.

Xandreia_

warden is at a nice spot right now, it doesn't need these proposed changes, if anything, you are changing the wrong skills. fetcher flies for example is fairy weak and could use a little boost. cutting dive, could possibly use a little buff (haven't used it in a while but from past experience's it wasn't good) artic blast doesnt need the change, it works good as it is. warden is probably the least played class in pvp and honestly its nice playing one right now. it went from completely ruined to being one of the most fun balance classes ive played in a long time.

Aldoss

As a PvPer who swapped to magden for this patch, seeing the nerf to Arctic was a huge let down. I don't even know what to say to the developer comment:

"Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play."

Wardens have very little control over the stun of Arctic. It's easy to understand in a 1v1 situation, but the moment you're in a pack, this skill dishes out cc immunity left and right and typically not on the target you want at the time that you want.

"...line up their burst perfectly with scorch to remove counter play."

Do the devs not realize that dks have fossilize that allow them to hit a defenseless target with a 3x molten? Do they not realize that they gave plars a ranged unblockable stun that allows them to hit a defenseless target with backlash or meteor? Sorcs have a ranged unblockable stun that let's them hit any one of their bursty skills. Nightblades have several on demand stuns that help them line up burst. Necros might be the only other class that has an uncontrollable stun, yet, over the last few patches have benefitted greatly from sets like Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence that give them the controlled burst they've been lacking.

Wardens are clearly forgotten in this meta and the proposed change is only further pushing us (magdens more so than stamdens) into the dirt.

Arctic Blast doesn't need more nerfs. It needs to be redesigned. It's a terrible burst heal, a pitiful heal over time, and too expensive for the cast time to be a useful damage over time.

If this change is not reversed then it likely won't get bar space anymore which seems tragic.

universal_wrath

I like the buff to endless fury even if it was unwarranted. I would appreciate a look at mages wrath the other aoe damage morph at it is week in its current state incomparison to live endless fury and even more to the pts version. I once again ask that streak to be target based skill instead of free target.

Streak/bol are in a situation where if they recieve any adjustment they become eith over/under powered.

Charged Storm atronach is still alternating between single target and aoe attack when it is supposed to be the aoe morph. Change charged storm atronach to make it only use aoe attacks or rework it to air atronach and make it mobile.

Lightning splash and its morphs are still underperforming when compared to any other skills of same nature, even caltraps, while it deals lower damage, is more usefull than lightning flood.

Overload completely missed the mark. This ultimate needs a complete rework.

Crystal weapon change is meh, it is not a spammable, delayed or buff skill. If used as spammable, the new change is completely useless. If used with the new change it will overlap with spammable skills very frequently which makes it akward to use. The skill also can't be used as buff skill because its duration is too short and their is internal cooldown between each proc.

Critical surge is good in PvE and useless in PvP outside of major sorcery/brutality buffs. Power surge is almost completely useless in both PvE & PvP. I believe power surge is 1 of 3 skills in the game that needs another skill to use similar to imbue/crystal weapon. Once powef surge is use, it will not do anything outside of major damage buff. You have to use a healing skill and do a critical heal with that skill to activate the heal from power surge which has 3 secs cooldown. I need to point out that while power surge is similar to how imbu/crystal weapons work, it is actually worse. Imbue/crystal weapons are garnteed to proc on LA which is free to use. Power surge needs a skill that has a cost attached to it and the mercy of critical chance as healer/tank/support player. As dps, players most do not have any other source of heal beside surge thus making power surge almost completely useless for dps players.

One par pets? Or atleast better pet varients than clanfear(clannfear monster set exist), like maybe benkin or flame atronach. There are 2 twlight pets and both look the same. Torment twilight could be changed to imp(imp use range attacks like twilight) while the other morph stays as it is.

Bound aegis need a duration buff or something else, it is completely overshadowed by bound armament.

Absorbtion field is underperforming in both PvE and PvP and is being overshadowed by all healing ultimates in the game. Maybe remove the silenc portion and give it like 20-30% damage reduction with heals and make it on the caster which can be mobile negate.


Incase and rune prison, I just don't remmember last time I met someone who still use any of these skills.

acastanza_ESO

My biggest complaint is that Boundless Storm didn't get a buff to better compete with Hurricane.
Right now Hurricane is unambiguously better than Boundless on all Sorcs for all occasions. Boundless either needs the duration of Major Expedition increased, to 6 seconds, to grant both Major and Minor Expedition, and either a slight damage buff or some combination of those three.

VaxtinTheWolf

At this point just slap Major Brutality/Sorcery onto Grim Focus. Activating that ability doesn't really even do jack anyway which is leaving it as an empty cast until you have something to attack. The buff should run out when the timer expires however, while the proc counter remains as is; and saves out of combat.

Oakiyo

The Artic blast nerf is very disapointing. This class was already struggling because of its lack of a good cc. Now, this is even more an issue. The ice shield stun is a good thing to get this morph used. But it can't be used as an offensive stun to line up a good combo since it depend on your target to attack you. Not to mention that some class don't even use projectile attack.

The old artic blast could be kitted, but at least in some rare situation, you could use it as an offensive stun. Now you have to hit your target 5 time, and you need to cast it 2 time ... So 9k magicka spend for a very mediocre heal and a cc you need to apply 5 time in melee range, spending 2 global cooldown for it to randomly proc ... This change makes this skill useless ...

Please, give us a real instant stun ...

Also, since this update focus on skill balance, isn't it a good occasion to finally switch animal companion magic skills to frost damage ? So we can finally completly synergize our skills with a frost setup ?

LeHarrt91

With the changes to hybridization and to skills like Crystal Fragments it would be nice to see the Bow passives updated to not only effect bow skills. Bow Builds are really falling behind at the moment.

Alchimiste1

For the love of all , just give magden an actual cc that isn’t reactionary.

Magdk still broken strong no surprise there.

LesserCircle

Thank you but no, I'm not going to download the PTS server ever again. I don't need to read anything it's very simple to guess what you did because it's always the same

- Nerfs to gear/CP/skills that people actually used
- Reduced cost of some skills/Increased cost of some skills (Most likely skills that people use and were fine already)
- Added some new BiS gear that will make us buy the chapter if we want to remain competitive
- Changes that will "no doubt" make us choose other skills because you nerfed our most used ones (Surprise, even nerfed they will still be the best ones, just less fun as the entire game really)

That should be mostly it, the usual big patch from ZOS

sharquez

Power Bash
Power Slam (morph): This morph’s passive, Resentment, now reduces the cost of your next Power Slam by up to 50%, rather than increasing its damage by 33%.

This the wrong call. It's a lot of opportunity cost to get good numbers on bash builds and it is very much balanced by its resource hungry nature. A 20k power bash maybe with that being almost your only skill that does good damage on your skill bar while not being able to regen stam while activating the bonus should not be taken away from the builds that use it.

Mind you this is only enabled by Jolting arms and Deadlands demolisher and has a cooldown time for peak damage.

Meanwhile dragon knights will hit you with an unblockable stun, DOTS that are somewhere around 2k per tick and 20k whip and 20k leap and heal themselves for 25k+ over 4 seconds.

Bash is not the problem leave this build alone it's all I have left.

New information has come to light

Riposte: This node now increases the damage done of your next direct damage attack by 33%, rather than dealing 4800 flat damage to your attacker.

So what this has done has taken this build out of No CP. Which I still disagree with. And now enabled DKs 1 punch build which already hit 35K for damage tooltips on heavy attacks to further scale that up by another 33%

ooof.

BalticBlues

Nevidyra wrote: »

The changes to Living Dark [...] removes the capability of the class to effectively deal with pressure in the current meta. Templar is right on back to being stuck on the defensive bar and being a healbot spec that's unable to effectively turn fights back into its favor.

Agreed. Moreover, the cost of Living Dark is way too high now for the nerfed healing in PvP.

Remember, this skill has to be applied every 6 secs...
ZOS, if you nerf the skill that much, at least the costs need to be nerfed as well.
To me, one of the BEST Templar skills now has become UNWORTHY in PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i31y8DlgGPA

lQrukl wrote: »

(Solar Flare) could cost nothing and noone would use it anyway, no matter PvP or PvE. Poor damage, ez to be interrupted.

Agreed. Nobody uses Solar Flares anymore.
Both Solar Flare morphs should grant Major Brutality/Sorcery to make these skills worthwhile.

divnyi

Occult Overload: This node now deals 2560 Oblivion Damage per stage with 5 stages at 10 points per stage, rather than 2000 Oblivion damage per stage with 2 stages at 25 points per stage.

Please, reconsider this to do normal damage instead of oblivion damage. 13k damage that goes through battle spirit and all the armors will be must-have in any PvP scenario, it will hit more that 5pc set that is designed for this specific purpose.

Grooveliker

Welcome to the new Dragon Knights meta! As always, you haven't learned anything. Two classes will dominate PvP, one is called the Dragon Knight and the other can look forward to the howls of the werewolves, because the werewolf will play a big role again in the next patch! The Magicka Nightblade has been missing a decent 20% buff for years! Many Magicka Nightblade abilities have hidden cast times. For example, a soul snare takes a certain amount of time to reach the opponent and can easily be dodged! Why isn't this revised?

The caster execute is extremely unfair in PvP! Especially in the battlefields, magicians spam their execute on all low targets to get the kill. Mage execute must work like any other execute and not stay on the enemy like a bomb! Unfair to other players on the battlefield!

there are enough points that need to be improved! your new ones. The fact that the dragon knight stays the way he is is a real cheek!

Bringing in a mystical item that makes werewolves extremely OP again is just as silly.

You're throwing the game completely out of control!

Please hire people who play PvP so that you finally know what you are actually doing there....

MudcrabAttack

How did the re-appearance of exploiter CP make lightning staff any better?

To begin with let’s talk about exploiter in the current implementation. It’s a slottable CP, so you give up one of the other things, presumably something that buffs damage way less than 3.1%, because that’s the most you could expect from exploiter in a fight that lasts around 22 seconds or much longer. The problem is a lot of the CP options add that much to damage anyway. Sure you can get a better average over a really short bursty fight, but that’s too much swapping around for too little gain, imho.

Let’s look at ways to get off balance:

Necros can smack big groups with the scythe- it’s good for mowing down groups in AOE, no lightning staff needed

A warden can use dive from >7 meters, it’s just a single target, but also an easy proc condition

Lightning staff procs off balance with wall of elements when a target is concussed. But how many targets are ever concussed? I looked it up in logs, it’s not that many, really. Most of the time when it happens, if it ever happens at all, a sorc scamp or flappy bird sporadically procs the condition on one or a few things in a large crowd. Of course we don’t have anyone using a shock glyph in my trials groups, but if someone were to add a shock glyph you’d get one target that will inconsistently gain concussed. Not the same exact target every time, like the main boss mind you, just one target that happens to wander into the center of the lightning wall to take the shock glyph damage. And the shock glyph won’t proc every 2 seconds on an infused weapon anymore, sometimes it takes 3 seconds, sometimes 4 seconds, sometimes 5, sometimes 6. It’s not that exciting, really, compared to a necro smacking a bunch of things all at once with the scythe.

And all that for just 3% more dps from a slotted CP, or MAYBE 10% more dps if the fight lasts 7 seconds or less. But as far as I’m concerned exploiter adds pretty much the same value as any of the other slotted CPs. It’s way too bland of a change for a lightning staff enthusiast

lonnml

Wow MagDen was done dirty. That class is almost completely unusable for PVP now, even as a healer/support.

Ingram

Reposting this from the other magden thread thought it might be useful here

I have used the Bear Ult for pvp for 4 years now despite all its multitude of issues with ai pathing, having to double bar the ult, the constant misses on the execute, and in many many many cases the ult just not going off. Universally this ult is considered to be one of the worst performing and least fun ults in the game I myself 4 years ago thought that and even after 4 years of only using the bear ult on warden find that its still a frustrating mess at its worst and a challenge to overcome at its best. I could go on and on about how poor the AI handles non PVE fights but that is neither here nor now but I can offer a Pvpers insight into the bear ult changes as I am probably one of the few players that have stuck around to use it. I can confidently say having tried both morphs and swapping between the two on my stamden that the free revive that the eternal guardian gets is worthless. Is it conveniant in a duel when your enemy targets the bear and it comes back for free once sure, does it play a vital role in how I play the game no. We already know in PVE the morph is useless. In PvP the morph is also normally useless as either the enemy player ignores your bear or focuses it and just kills it twice and you have to ressummon it anyways in 1vX situations or just in classic group v group pvp again either a group will focus your bear killing it very fast despite the bear being able to be healed or the bear will be ignored or cc chained and snared for eternity as the bear will never break free and will always take the full duration of any stun making it honestly a gamble that the AI even makes it to your target in time to do anything. It is for that reason the Eternal Guardian morph is in dire need of a fundamental change as obviously this morph was intended to be the defensive type of ult but just feels lackluster even in the ideal situation of it reviving once when you need it.

While I do think the Stam bear should keep its bleeding and damage buff as honestly the stam bear does need it and I should not have to run the magic morph on my Stam toon because for some reason it scales better and it comes with a free revive compared to my stam bear which offers me nothing in return. Having lurked in these forums for a while I have seen plenty of suggestions to change how the bear ai works and if it should be targetable and while all of most bring up good points it has been painfully obvious to me that none of this will ever happen as this bear change has been the first to come in years. I think the easiest solution ZOS could do is change the ternal guardian to be an artic polar bear its magic damage is now frost damage and its hits apply the chill effect and cause a minor 10% snare and lets just say that for some reason PVErs dont think its good enough damage maybe to embrace the warden ice tank build make it so that the bear could taunt enemeis or hold aggro better than the other pets openening another way to play warden. As it has been said before I am sure people will always switch to whatever gets you the higher dps in PVE and we will be back to square one with one morph being useless and another being only used in PVE.

Regardless I will continue to use the Bear as my one challenge in PvP knowing that despite all its issues it can be fun and until there are real fundamental changes at best this change can be a decent boost to dps in PvE and at worst these changes will just make another morph useless to an already underused class and ultimate in PvP.
Sincerly, Ingram Lord of the Bears

From_Siberia

Hi ZOS. I'm a casual templar player, but I want to give my humble opinion about future changes to Living Dark. I know that if your team have made a decision, then it is final, but I still hope for best. Also I apologize for my bad English but I hope I can convey my thoughts.

I think Living Dark needs scrupulous rework, but not purposeful castration. "Castration" is literally what is happening in the patch notes. Pls, take a few days to adequate rework this skill alive rather than destroy it with a stroke of pen.

Let's think together what exactly is Living Dark's features and problems.

Living Dark is similar to a skill that allows templar to use his class skills with their penalties (Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep - it's cast time - reduce Movement Speed; Purifying Light/Power of the Light - need to accumulate damage). Also when templar use LD - he pays increased skill cost (4320 magic vs. 2984 stamina for Vigor and 2700 magic for Rapid/Radiating Regeneration) of the skill to protect yourself from direct damage from one or more players during an attack or counterattack.

Also, Living Dark has its own peculiarity - this skill doesn't react to periodic damage or cannot heal you during kiting/lossing unlike other skills (cheap skills!) - in this moment you need to use other skills for self-healing.

So why does Living Dark cause so much negativity among other players? 'Cause this skill wasn't adequately balanced after recent global changes - this is best seen today in templar vs templar fights where's Living Dark reacted to every second hit of Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep (2 times for second). Many templars simply refuse to fight each other because they already know the final outcome.

But probably the main reason for the hate is caused by combination of Living Dark and other cheaper skills of periodic healing - yes, Vigor and Rapid/Radiating Regeneration. However, this is no a Templar problem - it's a global modern
PvP problem in ESO where player can freely combine different sources of periodic healing without any penalties or formulas to regulate it.
However, even knowing this, your team want to unfairly punish Templar only by taking one of his class skills from him, making it completely useless.

How to solve these problems with Living Dark?
I see several options, some have already been suggested by other players in this thread.

1. increase the cost of the skill even more;
2. or make Living Dark's healing tick tick once every half second, but no more than once per second per one enemy target;
3. or remove critical healing from Living Dark;
4. remove reducing movement speed by 40% for attackers enemies
5. or all of the above at the same time, just don't kill this skill, lol;
6. and finally, introduce penalties or debuffs on ticks from periodic heal skill combination, prioritizing the strongest healing tick. Your team may need to develop some new formulas for this. Yes, you will definitely need to work on this in future.

Saving and easily reworking Living Dark will allow more builds to exist, but for this, you, professional game designers, will have to spend a little time for this. Thank you for your work, I hope you can find a better solution in this matter. Don't destroy this useful and visually beautiful skill. And yes, I know my writing here is useless.

ThePainGuy

Good day community. I know healing has been a topic for PVE and PVP for a while. I wanted to propose a change that may have been proposed in the past. Problem with the current PVP meta is that damage and healing scale off the same system (max weapon/spell damage). However, healing item sets scale off of max stats (max stamina/ max magicka). Proposal

Have healing scale off of max stamina and max magicka similar to how the healing item sets scale ---> This will allow defined roles scaling off different systems (tanks scale off health, resistances, damage dealers scale off max weapon/spell damage, healers now scale off of max stamina/magicka). In PVE healers may make a resurgence in 4 man content since it would be harder to run 1 tank, 3 damage dealer set ups since healing would be compromised. In PVP it would alleviate high damage builds also doing incredible healing contributing to this current high burst damage, high healing meta. Shields already scale off max stats and Zos compare shields to healing abilities.

Maybe, I am way off base. Im curious to here from the rest of the community in regards to this.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Stalwart385

I don't get why you would break Mortal Coil for tanks. What was the reason for the change anyway?

Tryxus

My thoughts on the Warden changes:

Wild Guardian

Increasing the damage done by the bear as well as changing the damage type to Bleed plus Hemo procs were all very nice buffs. But the original problem of one morph outclassing the other one still persists. Now that Wild Guardian deals more damage than Eternal Guardian, and Eternal's resurrection being either not needed or all that useful, Wild will be the obvious morph choice.

Deep Fissure

I've suggested Minor Breach on Deep Fissure a long time ago, mostly from a healer's POV since Major Breach was abundant (still is) and Minor wasn't back then. Now it's finally here and a bit too late for PvE tho, but still good for PvP. Lowering the resistances of multiple players even further at once improves the skill both as a support option in a group as well as when going solo. Pretty decent change.

Corrupting Pollen

I still grieve over the hefty nerf this skill received with Elsweyr. Anyways...

Minor Cowardice turns this skill into a portable Healing Mage/Mending set which is nice of course and does give it some PvE viability as stated. PvP-wise, it's not that spectacular. It does put a dent into a players Spell/Weapon Damage, but the debuff only lasts for 6 secs or until the player gets out of the area. It's not worth it to sacrifice a HoT and control over the burst heal for 2 debuffs that require quite some upkeep.

My grief continues...

Northern Storm

This Ulti now giving both Spell and Weapon Damage rather than 15% Max Magicka is a nice improvement for Stamina Warden, giving them an actual choice when morphing Sleet Storm.

Expansive Frost Cloak

Not a noteworthy change. Maybe the extra range is helpful for kiting healers in trials?

Arctic Blast

It's dead... like deady dead dead.

At this point, I'm not surprised or even disappointed. The devs have been tinkering with this skill since Murkmire, overhauling, buffing and nerfing it ever since. It feels like they don't have a clue about how to fit this skill into our toolkit or what role it should play during battle. The heals on it are way too weak and the stun on it has always been more of a hindrance than a help.

And now we need 2 extra ticks to pull off the stun from this skill, giving players more time to put pressure on us or for doing something to stop us from taking advantage of the stun...

I replaced it with Vigor, and I didn't look back.

Crystallized Slab

Anyone remember when the DK's wings were called Reflective Scales and they would reflect up to 4 projectiles back at the attacker. There was a time even when this skill would reflect Meteors back. Fun times right? Unless you happened to be a ranged attacker fighting the DK.

Well this skill now has the same vibes.

Against ranged attackers or anyone using a ranged weapon this skill can put quite some pressure on them with an instant counterattack that also stuns them, giving the Warden plenty of opportunities to act on that. It's really strong in that situation. But ofc, the skill is completely useless against pure melee builds or just a source of free CC immunity for ranged attackers that are too far away.

It's a hit or miss type of skill.

Conclusion

Wardens got a brand new bear and a couple of minor additions to their support skills. For PvE I think Wardens are still in a pretty decent spot.

For PvP tho, MagDen is garbage tier. The addition of Minor Breach to Deep Fissure is good imo and Crystallized Slab can be powerful, but we lost Arctic Blast and we are still lacking some of the basic essentials needed for PvP: terrible spammable, no instant stun, self healing issues, ...

MagDen needs a lot of help. We need actual reliable and direct skills for PvP combat and less gimmicky mechanics.

umagon

The changes to Occult Overload might to be a bit much. Do we really want things exploding for 12,800 oblivion damage? It somewhat replaces wearing sets that have similar functions were the target explodes on death.

ESO_Nightingale

Tryxus wrote: »

My thoughts on the Warden changes:

Wild Guardian

Increasing the damage done by the bear as well as changing the damage type to Bleed plus Hemo procs were all very nice buffs. But the original problem of one morph outclassing the other one still persists. Now that Wild Guardian deals more damage than Eternal Guardian, and Eternal's resurrection being either not needed or all that useful, Wild will be the obvious morph choice.

Deep Fissure

I've suggested Minor Breach on Deep Fissure a long time ago, mostly from a healer's POV since Major Breach was abundant (still is) and Minor wasn't back then. Now it's finally here and a bit too late for PvE tho, but still good for PvP. Lowering the resistances of multiple players even further at once improves the skill both as a support option in a group as well as when going solo. Pretty decent change.

Corrupting Pollen

I still grieve over the hefty nerf this skill received with Elsweyr. Anyways...

Minor Cowardice turns this skill into a portable Healing Mage/Mending set which is nice of course and does give it some PvE viability as stated. PvP-wise, it's not that spectacular. It does put a dent into a players Spell/Weapon Damage, but the debuff only lasts for 6 secs or until the player gets out of the area. It's not worth it to sacrifice a HoT and control over the burst heal for 2 debuffs that require quite some upkeep.

My grief continues...

Northern Storm

This Ulti now giving both Spell and Weapon Damage rather than 15% Max Magicka is a nice improvement for Stamina Warden, giving them an actual choice when morphing Sleet Storm.

Expansive Frost Cloak

Not a noteworthy change. Maybe the extra range is helpful for kiting healers in trials?

Arctic Blast

It's dead... like deady dead dead.

At this point, I'm not surprised or even disappointed. The devs have been tinkering with this skill since Murkmire, overhauling, buffing and nerfing it ever since. It feels like they don't have a clue about how to fit this skill into our toolkit or what role it should play during battle. The heals on it are way too weak and the stun on it has always been more of a hindrance than a help.

And now we need 2 extra ticks to pull off the stun from this skill, giving players more time to put pressure on us or for doing something to stop us from taking advantage of the stun...

I replaced it with Vigor, and I didn't look back.

Crystallized Slab

Anyone remember when the DK's wings were called Reflective Scales and they would reflect up to 4 projectiles back at the attacker. There was a time even when this skill would reflect Meteors back. Fun times right? Unless you happened to be a ranged attacker fighting the DK.

Well this skill now has the same vibes.

Against ranged attackers or anyone using a ranged weapon this skill can put quite some pressure on them with an instant counterattack that also stuns them, giving the Warden plenty of opportunities to act on that. It's really strong in that situation. But ofc, the skill is completely useless against pure melee builds or just a source of free CC immunity for ranged attackers that are too far away.

It's a hit or miss type of skill.

Conclusion

Wardens got a brand new bear and a couple of minor additions to their support skills. For PvE I think Wardens are still in a pretty decent spot.

For PvP tho, MagDen is garbage tier. The addition of Minor Breach to Deep Fissure is good imo and Crystallized Slab can be powerful, but we lost Arctic Blast and we are still lacking some of the basic essentials needed for PvP: terrible spammable, no instant stun, self healing issues, ...

MagDen needs a lot of help. We need actual reliable and direct skills for PvP combat and less gimmicky mechanics.

i agree with nearly everything you said, but not a massive fan of minor breach on deep fissure, it doesn't make it any better for pve dps when that's something that we've been talking about being a problem for a little while now.

MidniteOwl1913

master_vanargand wrote: »

Nightblade
Assassination
Mark Target
Piercing Mark (morph):
Fixed an issue where the heal from this morph was lower than the base ability.
Increased the duration of the effects to 60 seconds at rank IV, up from 30.

Teleport Strike
Ambush (morph):
Increased the duration of Empower granted from this morph to 10 seconds, up from 3.
This morph now also grants Minor Berserk for its duration.

Shadow
Path of Darkness
Refreshing Path (morph): This morph now also grants Minor Endurance and Intellect for 4 seconds each tick.

Veiled Strike
Surprise Attack (morph): Fixed an issue where this morph had no upgrades as it ranked up. It will now deal 1.1% more damage per rank.

Siphoning
Drain Power: Increased the duration of Major Brutality and Sorcery granted from this ability and its morphs to 30 seconds, up from 20, to make up for the fact that they require a target to gain these effects.
Power Extraction (morph): This morph now also grants the caster Minor Courage for 30 seconds upon dealing damage.

Soul Shred:
Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could ignore line of sight in some cases.
Fixed numerous issues where the damage or healing from these abilities could use the wrong stats to scale.

I am extremely disappointed in the changes they've made to Nightblade.
After patchnote, Nightblade is the worst class in PvP.
I am in despair and crying ... no power, no future, no hope.

[Nightblade's wish]
Need change Drain Power's Major Brutality and Major Sorcery to Siphoning Strikes.
I want move Major Sorcery and Brutality to Siphoning Strikes.
I strongly wish that it will be that way.

Need add Major Savagery and Prophecy to Nightblade class skills.
My idea, need add "While slotted you gain Major Savagery and Prophecy" to Teleport Strike.
I don't want to use Expert Hunter or Magelight.
Nightblade needs free space in the skill slot.
I strongly wish that it will be that way.

Listen to Nightblade's voice.
ZoS, listen, wish ...

I started with a NB and struggled to do a lot of PVE, but just created a Dragonknight alt and oh boy the difference! Night and day. If ZOS is after balance, NB will need a lot more help than this.

Foxtrot39

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I started with a NB and struggled to do a lot of PVE, but just created a Dragonknight alt and oh boy the difference! Night and day. If ZOS is after balance, NB will need a lot more help than this.

Nightblade in PVE tend to be rather high up DPS wise though only in 1v1

In term of healer it offer nothing beside big single/self target burst heal/AOE ult heal

Tank wise they just exist and thats all they can offer

YandereGirlfriend

I would like to chime in to say that I personally LOVE the changes made to Corrupting Pollen and Deep Fissure from the PvP perspective!

However, as a fellow advocate for the Frost Warden playstyle in PvE - many of the other MagDen changes greatly miss the mark and I agree with what @ESO_Nightingale sets forth by way of their critique.

Frost Wardens need more Frost Damage abilities in their toolkit and doing easy things like changing the base damage type of Deep Fissure to Frost Damage (alternatively, allow it to deal significantly more damage to Chilled targets) as well as re-working one morph of Arctic Wind into a DPS ability would be fantastic places to start.

Northern Storm also needs a whole lot more love if it is ever to compete with Stamina Bear as a damage ultimate.