Zone Guide & Map Completion with Account Wide Achievements

Sarannah

James-Wayne wrote: »

duagloth wrote: »

What a mess,this makes zero sense. I have Alts that havesomehow defeated a boss in a group dungeon but yet the map shows theyve never been there.

Its a bug and is getting fixed, hang in there!

That is not a bug according to ZOS, that is a feature. The bug ZOS is talking about is the one where world bosses/delves/etc are shown as uncompleted on the map, where they should now all be showing completed. Those things all counting as completed is a feature.

joerginger wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

If you are truly serious about AwA, decouple everything from achievements!

I wrote the same thing weeks ago.

Well, this is honestly the only way for ZOS to move forward. Even in new content, the way ZOS did auto-completions, will make zero sense in the future. Every newly released zone content, new players will keep running into this, and probably report this as a bug. I have no idea how ZOS could ever expect this to be the right way to do AwA.

How I play the game:
Complete the zones 100%. While questing I sometimes used to discover world bosses/delves, to do them later. So I could continue questing. This is no longer possible, as now I won't be able to see if I had actually done those things. I did the same when I had to log off and was near a world boss or delve, I discovered them to do them later. Also something which I cannot do anymore now.
Also, my alts are NOT my main! They are their own characters who have to complete things by themselves.

The game seems to be moving more and more into the direction of catering to players who rush things(and then complain there is nothing to do). A direction which I do not like. This was first seen with excavation and the showing of treasure chests for players who rush through everything. While normally those players would miss practically all those chests, and left them behind for slower moving players like me. These players now have the benefit of rushing content and be rewarded for it by having hard to spot treasure chests shown to them. Now with AwA the rushing players can simply skip delves/world bosses completely, as they are automatically completed on their new characters.
To me this direction will (eventually) make the game feel different, more like a treadmill, than an actual game. This direction will also harm the longevity of the game itself, as it will allow players to rush through everything and be done.

Anyways, just my explanation for why I feel this way about AwA.

Theros

It's a big mess in all my alts.
It's all ok in my main because he go very foward in story. But all my alts?! No make sence play with them Quests completed, Delves done and etc... And all because achivments!? lol! This don't make any sence.

unjulation

This is a repost of my post in another thread regarding the changes -

" I came back after a good few years and thought the best way to get back into the game would be to create an alt and run through the game again, having done most of it years ago I reckoned it would be the way to go and was having a real blast of a time, so much so I thought I'd even got ESO+ for a month and see if it would be worthwhile, it really does make life easier and finally I brought my brother back to the game

Anyways, hearing about the up-and-coming changes gave pause for thought but tbh I didn't really care, I'd just continue to play the same as ever but a couple of things that have hit me with the dropping of the patch -

1) not getting completion xp from delves - like I mentioned my first character had done them all so this new one doesn't get it, that's a pisser and hits ware it hurts - my leveling journey, but I knew I could probably get over it the game itself is fun so all good

2) I've been hit with a bug ware all the skyshards that my first character had found are now no longer available to my alt - this bug doesn't seem to be affecting many if anybody else, I've not seen anyone mention it apart from me, mind it's not like I read every thread so it could be happening to others - but if that doesn't get fixed it has basically locked me out of a large pool of skill points and if it's only happening to a few peeps then I worry that it might not get fixed for an age if ever

So aye its a [snip] show for sure and has tainted my view of the game, changed my thinking about whether I should renew my sub, it's a no atm and I'm thinking that it's time for me and my bruv to find a new game we can play together which is a real shame as I've been having so much fun

I'm proper torn atm like I've mentioned a couple of times I've been having so much fun but I'm having a hard time justifying sticking about atm"

Cheers for reading
Unj

[edited for profanity bypass]

VaranisArano

I'd just like to note that this is far from the first time that players have done quality assurance testing on the PTS only to have their bug reports ignored and major issues go Live.

I wasn't expecting that Account-wide Achievements would stop thanks to negative feedback from roleplayers. I figured it was a done deal, and it was.

I did, however, expect better of the Devs once the many problems with their implementation came out. I expected the Devs to address basic concerns like "Does the Map work properly for different characters?"

Instead, we have a less usable Map than before. We have a harder time tracking where our characters have been and what we have yet to do for non-accountwide stuff like Skyshards.

I find it hard to believe that the performance improvements to the database required that the Map be made less usable. So I don't know if someone thought messing with the map was a good idea, or if they were rushed through the process of reworking and uncoupling achievements from character specific stuff, or something else. Whatever it was, y'all messed up, and didn't fix it once the PTS warned you.

shadyjane62

Theros wrote: »

It's a big mess in all my alts.
It's all ok in my main because he go very foward in story. But all my alts?! No make sence play with them Quests completed, Delves done and etc... And all because achivments!? lol! This don't make any sence.

Last night I deleted the last of my alts. No point in having them as my main has done most of everything.

Besides the bug affecting Bosmer females was too annoying to stand. A "sometime in the future it will be addressed" is not good enough.

Sylvermynx

Just for info: for PC users, Sharlikran updated the Skyshards addon yesterday so it works properly again, pulling info from the Zone Guide instead of Achievements.

Longbow9

For the gamer who considers the questing a vital part of the game, having the quest related achievements pre assigned to an alt GREATLY diminishes the value of a DLC or Expansion. Where, before, I could count on multiple enjoyable runs through the story line, I now get one shot. Everything after that is anticlimactic.

It's hard for me to believe that the same developers that devised the achievements system in the first place could suddenly become so tone deaf and boneheaded regarding how they treat questing and achievements. They have to know that they are killing the game for a large number of their player base.

Having spent years in the corporate world, this has all the trappings of a decision made by the empty suits upstairs that have no understanding of the game but love to roll around in the cash it throws off.

Maybe a dent in the revenue stream brought on by half the player base being disenfranchised will get their attention. Let us hope so because this is the only thing they understand.

Grizzbeorn

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Just for info: for PC users, Sharlikran updated the Skyshards addon yesterday so it works properly again, pulling info from the Zone Guide instead of Achievements.

The add-on 'Map Pins' was also just updated.

zaria

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

If Delves, Striking Locales, World Events and World Bosses are automatically given credit as completed to all alts with achievements, then you should not need to travel all the way there just to unlock the icon on the map per character. That's just unnecessary busy work, and causes unnecessary confusion.

It should be either or: either all map icons are unlocked with completed achievements for all toons OR no map icons and no achievements are unlocked for these per toon.

It seems silly that you have to send your alt all the way over to a delve to unlock it on your map when you've already gotten credit for "completing" it on that same alt.

I agree, now it has the benefit of showing that you don't have the skyshard, but that information is lost if you don't do the delve and forget it.

Raevenglass

@ZOS_Kevin Thank you for saying SOMETHING. You've been the only one I've seen acknowledge the discussions we've been having and it means a lot.

I'm sure its frustrating to put out the new content and not hear more about the other pieces and hear mostly about AwA. This focus was pretty evident given the activity on the PTS threads, so I'm sure it wasn't a surprise.

There are so many issues storming around here but think it boils down to a few important ones:

1. Communication - there have been calls from both sides (ZoS and players) for better communication. But asking for feedback and not providing any response to it, or fixing issues, isn't great communication. Reasonably, we know not everyone's wishes can be incorporated into the game, but when people tell you of actual bugs on a PTS, there should be some acknowledgement that these are noted by the ZoS team, whether they choose to fix them or not.

2. How people play - one of the best things about ESO is you can play however you like best. Some days, I just run around and clear all my maps and surveys - get my dopamine hit - and log off. Other days I'm progging vCR+3 and working my tail off. It's about immersion, and people you meet, and teamwork, and solo play. It's a one stop shop.

It's been heartbreaking to read posts from people pleading with ZoS NOT to take away the ability to immerse in the story with different characters in different ways. Yes it's one person behind the account - I've heard the arguments. But my Argonian warden is a different character with a different backstory than my High Elf Sorc. Imagination is a huge part of the game for me. I want to continue to play like they are different characters. I'll get over who gets "credit" for the achievement. (Leave the tooltip - if someone hates it, they don't have to hover over it.) I'll use addons to find my skyshards and I'll learn to wait for delve bosses. Honestly - at this point I don't care that all the titles are shareable or that all the kills are added up.

I do care, a lot, about my level 10 character being hailed as a Savior of Blackwood when she's never been there. It's really fun to see dialog change once you've done the quests, but just get rid of it. Save the database even more and dump the updated quest language or those NPCs so I can immerse in the game. Or better yet - give me a setting where I can turn off achievement related dialog on my alts. It's not perfect, but I could live with it.

3. What does AWA mean? - this hit and miss of this has been galling. If it's account wide achievements - then once I've leveled riding on my account, that should count for every character I make from that point onwards. Same as CP. I get it's incentive to log in more or buy crowns and purchase riding lessons, but messing the game up, calling it a QOL improvement, but then excluding things that you want us to purchase? Can you see why we're all feeling disappointed and cynical about this new feature?

Thanks for listening. I just hope the Devs actually are as well.

Rae

Edit - sorry for the dual posting. I posted this here, but it's the wrong thread and I can't see how to delete it.

WordsOfPower

"Last night I deleted the last of my alts. No point in having them as my main has done most of everything"

What this comment - and the sheer weight of salt coming from questers who want ZOS to restore things to how they were pre-patch - tells me, is that the biggest problem with the game is that the yawning chasm between casual and endgame is widening more and more.

For me, alts are a way of making a new class /race/build combination possible for PvP or vMA or something fun and inventive for dungeons (like a Werewolf tank or whatever).

For the person I've quoted above, not even the class (and therefore the skills available) are relevant to the game. They'll happily live with light attacks because their real enjoyment comes from running to different places and listening to dialogue.

Such players might like to be aware that there are many addons that fix the mess ZOS has created with the map.

What can't be fixed is the fact that AwA actually creates a bizarre situation where an alt who kills the last human enemy necessary might inadvertently earn the Supreme Slayer achi. Right... by one kill... Earned by an alt I've made for <50 BGs, who may easily be deleted when he gets to 49.

I'll tell you one thing for free : if ZOS treat this grievance about the map as deserving of attention and placate the questers, yet continue to ignore the much more serious issues in PvP, they will lose a huge chunk of their playerbase.

And for everyone who reads this and thinks I'm being negative, or wants to flame me cuz I'm a PvP player, know that I spent 3 hours today helping a new PvE player learn about the game, and more than that,you should watch Nefas video about toxic casuals and take a good hard look in the mirror.

NeKryXe

I can't even understand why the hell they decided to merge the achievements. I've been playing since beta and I don't remember having any issues with achievements. Why change something that was working perfectly? What was the point? Some say that it was a way to improve performance, but I didn't notice any difference, it just got slower now to track the progress of each character. So why?

I always understood the idea of the achievements before update 33, but not now. Why would I need to know my main character's progress when playing with an alt? And couldn't it be just a note (that we could turn on and off) next to the achievements informing which character completed it, instead of finishing it for all?

SilverBride

protofeckless wrote: »

Straw Poll: Has anyone experienced any performance improvements since this train wreck idea (AwA) went into production with zero regard to tester feedback?

I never had any performance issues until update 33. Now every evening I start having very long loading screens when trying to go into my houses. I even disconnected once while running Maelstrom Arena today, which is very rare for me.

WiseSky

The person who has 32 Master Angler Achievements is probably the person who you should hear about the most

If you dont see the dedication players have with ESO within that Thread and dont change the AWA I dont know what will

wolfie1.0.

kind of curious as to why this information was not included in the Q & A post. Also why the decision to exclude enchanting achievements from AwA.

I am also curious as to why this feature couldn't have been delayed an update or two. to you know, work out these bugs. That was also missing from the Q & A.

What was given to us in the Q & A was the assurance that a reduction in the Database size would improve login times, load screens and more.

Since the update i have had the following happen:

5x = infinite 1 second login queue
7x = ESO stopped working and what were you doing crashes
10x = infinite loading screens
5x = "Unable to connect to server please ensure you have a valid internet connection" when loading characters
6x = 45 minute+ queue attempts with groupfinder the record for me is 2 hours and 30 minutes then ESO crashed.
2x = When groupfinder worked 1 or more members of thje group were spawned in a seperate dungeon instance in the game

Sarannah

WordsOfPower wrote: »

"Last night I deleted the last of my alts. No point in having them as my main has done most of everything"

What this comment - and the sheer weight of salt coming from questers who want ZOS to restore things to how they were pre-patch - tells me, is that the biggest problem with the game is that the yawning chasm between casual and endgame is widening more and more.

For me, alts are a way of making a new class /race/build combination possible for PvP or vMA or something fun and inventive for dungeons (like a Werewolf tank or whatever).

For the person I've quoted above, not even the class (and therefore the skills available) are relevant to the game. They'll happily live with light attacks because their real enjoyment comes from running to different places and listening to dialogue.

Such players might like to be aware that there are many addons that fix the mess ZOS has created with the map.

What can't be fixed is the fact that AwA actually creates a bizarre situation where an alt who kills the last human enemy necessary might inadvertently earn the Supreme Slayer achi. Right... by one kill... Earned by an alt I've made for <50 BGs, who may easily be deleted when he gets to 49.

I'll tell you one thing for free : if ZOS treat this grievance about the map as deserving of attention and placate the questers, yet continue to ignore the much more serious issues in PvP, they will lose a huge chunk of their playerbase.

And for everyone who reads this and thinks I'm being negative, or wants to flame me cuz I'm a PvP player, know that I spent 3 hours today helping a new PvE player learn about the game, and more than that,you should watch Nefas video about toxic casuals and take a good hard look in the mirror.

Your entire post is aimed as an attack on casuals, yet state you don't want anyone to counter your points. Even directly insulting the person you quoted. Stop taking your PvP frustrations out on PvE players! Especially in a thread directly created to discuss PvE issues.

ZOS has been working years and years on the PvP issues, and as long as they can't fix the lag/delay in PvP, they can't release anything new for PvP. Which is a completely seperate issue from what is happening now! So I am not sure why you even post this here. As your post comes across as "I feel my problem is worse, so who cares about your map issue."

All issues about the game should be fixed, and this thread is specifically created for the PvE side of things. As the thread was created by ZOS to state what PvE issues there are and why. This is also why players respond on which PvE issues they feel there are. There was absolutely no need for the type of post you just made.

PS: Keep up the good work by helping new players.

Edit: Performance-wise I have noticed mail is delivered faster, but the character load is longer than it was. While my loading screens are still the same length. No issues otherwise(bugs/crashes/etc).

silvereyes

averyfarmanb14_ESO wrote: »

It's a simple question: Which striking locale is this character missing?

You can't tell, not from either the Map Completion dialog or the achievement tooltip. The Map Completion dialog's driven by character data, the tooltip's driven by (now) account data, so there's no indicator at all as to which locale's missing. If I'm lucky, I've gone to the map and, hopefully, came close enough to reveal the icon for it, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

Hymzir

silvereyes wrote: »

averyfarmanb14_ESO wrote: »

It's a simple question: Which striking locale is this character missing?

You can't tell, not from either the Map Completion dialog or the achievement tooltip. The Map Completion dialog's driven by character data, the tooltip's driven by (now) account data, so there's no indicator at all as to which locale's missing. If I'm lucky, I've gone to the map and, hopefully, came close enough to reveal the icon for it, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

So... In less than a week, the add-on community has managed to fix one of the three major issues brought about by AWA. Namely the ability to track individual progress, and made the map make sense again.

Meanwhile, ZOS hasn't even managed to issue a statement on whether they see this issue as a problem to be fixed, or just something they are comfortable to leave as is.

It's just bonkers, when you think what @silvereyes has managed to create in such a short time frame, while the actual dev team can't get their act together long enough to even say: "We're working on it." Like, would it really been such a huge task for the devs to have addressed this before publishing the update? I find it hard to believe, that they couldn't have spared someone on the team, to fix the map before going live with AWA.

If only modders could fix this game the way they can fix Bethesda Softworks games... If only.

I doubt add-ons can fix the issue with NPC dialogue, or stuff like Orsinium being rebuild already for characters visiting it for the first time, eager to join the reconstruction effort.

I guess I'll give ZOS 'till the end of the month to respond, and if they refuse to even address these issues, then it's time to pull the plug.

ArchangelIsraphel

silvereyes wrote: »

averyfarmanb14_ESO wrote: »

It's a simple question: Which striking locale is this character missing?

You can't tell, not from either the Map Completion dialog or the achievement tooltip. The Map Completion dialog's driven by character data, the tooltip's driven by (now) account data, so there's no indicator at all as to which locale's missing. If I'm lucky, I've gone to the map and, hopefully, came close enough to reveal the icon for it, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

You're a hero. You've done so much to help everyone dealing with the aftermath of this terrible update, saying thank you just isn't enough!

LalMirchi

silvereyes wrote: »

averyfarmanb14_ESO wrote: »

It's a simple question: Which striking locale is this character missing?

You can't tell, not from either the Map Completion dialog or the achievement tooltip. The Map Completion dialog's driven by character data, the tooltip's driven by (now) account data, so there's no indicator at all as to which locale's missing. If I'm lucky, I've gone to the map and, hopefully, came close enough to reveal the icon for it, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

AWESOME! Many thanks @silvereyes

It's rather depressing to see that addon developers can do what the games devs don't. Surely there was a better way to achieve the goal of trimming the data bloat?

It seems that there is no way back so I for one am evaluating my playstyle to see if it is possible for me to continue playing.

Tandor

I wish some people would stop hailing addons as the way to resolve these real issues. While I praise the authors for their efforts, addons are only applicable to barely a third of the playerbase, namely those PC users who like to use them and not console players or those PC players on Stadia or who for perfectly valid reasons prefer not to use addons.

It's down to ZOS to fix the broken mess arising from the way they implemented these changes, and if they can do that by applying the same approach adopted by addon authors but through the base game across all platforms then that's fine, but simply relying on modders' addons to fix it isn't a solution.

SilverBride

Tandor wrote: »

I wish some people would stop hailing addons as the way to resolve these real issues.

No one has said that add-ons are the way to resolve these issues. We realize that those on console aren't able to utilize these add-ons but they are a life saver for many of us and I am very grateful for that.

These add-ons also prove that the map completion can be preserved and hopefully ZoS will institute something similar in the base game that will benefit everyone.

Necrotech_Master

Tandor wrote: »

I wish some people would stop hailing addons as the way to resolve these real issues. While I praise the authors for their efforts, addons are only applicable to barely a third of the playerbase, namely those PC users who like to use them and not console players or those PC players on Stadia or who for perfectly valid reasons prefer not to use addons.

It's down to ZOS to fix the broken mess arising from the way they implemented these changes, and if they can do that by applying the same approach adopted by addon authors but through the base game across all platforms then that's fine, but simply relying on modders' addons to fix it isn't a solution.

sadly that is what bethesda as a whole has been doing for the last decade with almost every one of their games lol

even when skyrim released there were mods to fix numerous issues with it (the infamous "unofficial" patch etc, for issues that were never fixed even 8 re-releases later)

the only addon ive gotten so far related to the AWA is the one that removes the "earned by" tooltip entirely, because it makes no sense to have it there in the first place

Onomog

Tandor wrote: »

It's down to ZOS to fix the broken mess arising from the way they implemented these changes...

I agree with you. However, based on the (lack of ) response from ZOS, I'm starting to think that the changes are working as intended. I don't expect to see them come out with a fix.

I had 10 characters, now I'm down to 4. Usually I have alt-itis when I play, but this has really discouraged that and reduced my overall desire to play the game.

Edit to fix quote

Grizzbeorn

Tandor wrote: »

I wish some people would stop hailing addons as the way to resolve these real issues.

We players do not have the means to RESOLVE these issues; only the devs have that.
Add-ons are, and always have been, a work-around for inadequate or broken functionality.
And it's not our fault that they aren't accessible to the entire playerbase.

deleted221106-002999

silvereyes wrote: »

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

This is quite outstanding work, although I've only tested it on pts. I just feel very sorry for console users for whom this extraordinary endeavour is not a solution.

@ZOS_Kevin - why can't the devs give us a client side implementation of character specifics just as we had before? You have the extant code so surely it wouldn't be a huge task to decouple it from the server and keep the data interactions client-side with the same interface as before as an extra journal tab? This would go a huge way to help out those for whom character specifics are fundamental to the way the game is approached, played and replayed and do a lot to fix the loss of customer good-will.

It's not as if client-side stored achievements would be an issue since they would only affect individual players and the caveat that the data would be our responsibility going forward would be perfectly acceptable.

edit:typos

SilverBride

silvereyes wrote: »

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

I was telling my guild about this addon and some asked if it will still work for them if they didn't install it before update 33. I didn't think it would, but wasn't positive. Will it help if someone installs it now?

LoneStar2911

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

I was telling my guild about this addon and some asked if it will still work for them if they didn't install it before update 33. I didn't think it would, but wasn't positive. Will it help if someone installs it now?

I’ve been wondering the same thing.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

FYI, the latest version of the Character Zone Tracker addon gets rid of the achievement tooltips from the zone guide / map completion tracker, along with several other bug fixes. Now the character's individual progress shows up on all zone guide and map completion tooltips.

I was telling my guild about this addon and some asked if it will still work for them if they didn't install it before update 33. I didn't think it would, but wasn't positive. Will it help if someone installs it now?

reading the addon, it looks like if you did have it save your progress pre-U33, then it will start with your data at that point for character tracking

likely if you used it post-U33 with no use pre-U33, it does have options to load progress from your acct, or reset delves/WBs/etc for a single character

i think @silvereyes would have to confirm functionality if you didnt use it pre-U33

SimonThesis

This still hasnt been fixed! And we haven't gotten any updates with a description of whats causing the problem and an estimated time this will be fixed.