Should ZOS delay account-wide achievements until June?

Dojohoda

Other

It has bugs. The way they did it is not the best way. The people in the feedback thread have made suggestions regarding how they would like it to be.

code65536

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Sonnir wrote: »

I have been WAITING for this since Beta!

Then you should have no problems waiting a few more months to ensure that it is done right and is not a rushed trainwreck.

Kesstryl

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

silvereyes wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

Whether they keep a backup or not is immaterial. If new activity is not logged per character, data is being lost.

Edit: exhibit A of a character who did an account wide achievement last week that was reverted to character scope this week.

Make sure you show that one in the Account Wide Achievements Bugs forum thread

Sheezabeast

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Delay it until ES6 drops

Araneae6537

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

I enjoyed ESO being different from other MMORPG’s and while I’ve played and enjoyed games with accountwide achievements, those had other means of tracking individual character progress, including zone completion and their individual interactions with other characters. Some even had rewards for achievement point totals and achievements that would only make sense accountwide (completing something on every class for instance).

What is on the PTS is a disaster and not proper AWA at all. I am losing hope that ZOS will do this properly and not destroy years of recorded progress and possibility of future will playthroughs.

(Edited to fix typo.)

ListerJMC

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Personally I think account-wide achievements is a great idea, but the way they're implementing it is terrible and riddled with bugs and could really use more feedback and polish.

I was really hoping for something like separate tabs for your character achievements and your account achievements, it's impossible to track things on alts now and kills a bit of my motivation to redo stuff with them because it's just going to be a headache to figure out what they've even done. Also, I still can't see my total account achievements unless I'm on my main because he's the only one who's done all the character bound achievements, which defeats the purpose a little for me? I really think it needs more time.

Tannus15

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

i love the fact that people think they can just pick and choose what goes in and what doesn't at this stage.

the code is merged into the release code base. they won't be able to just take it out, so it means more code over the top of the new code to work around the new system and maybe copy back in bits of code from the old system.

you don't want that. it would be bad. maybe it's not ready, but their deadline isn't moving so it's coming, like it or not.

ealdwin

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Any bug that impacts progress and/or ability to play the game that cannot be addressed in this pts cycle should be enough of a reason to withhold this implementation of Account-Wide Achievements. I mean, how do you justify to your customers that you are severely altering their character data by replacing a system that currently works with a broken system. You can't.

It's my opinion that the current implementation is also just flat out the wrong way to implement account-wide achievements. I've been in the camp for account-wise achievements before, and what I typically envisioned was more akin to a separate tab or window that allowed for the viewing of an aggregate of achievements across all characters while preserving the ability to view achievements on a specific character. A two-tab solution, or an account-wide overview, would be a much more apt solution that the current implementation.

So, yes, it should be delayed. ZOS should take in all the feedback across the Official Feedback thread and reconsider their approach. Then perhaps work on some test implementations on an off-cycle PTS (like they did with the Light and Heavy Attack changes they tested) in order to get more community feedback to ensure that a better implementation is provided that does not take away something from players*.


*What do I mean take away? I mean that in general the argument over AWA falls into two opinions.
(1) Focus on the achievements of a character.
(2) Focus on the achievements of a player.

Currently, on Live, ESO favors the first opinion, by recording achievements for each character. A proper implementation of AWA would respect that first opinion while recognizing the second. An AW-Overview or the 2-Tab approach would do so. The current implementation is flawed in that it sacrifices the first opinion for the second. It's not an overall improvement from the live implementation since the gain it provides is negated by that which it eliminates.

James-Wayne

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

Nope. Push it through as is, I'm happy with what was proposed.

FeedbackOnly

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

A lot of unresolved issues with it

silvereyes

Other

Kesstryl wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

Whether they keep a backup or not is immaterial. If new activity is not logged per character, data is being lost.

Edit: exhibit A of a character who did an account wide achievement last week that was reverted to character scope this week.

Make sure you show that one in the Account Wide Achievements Bugs forum thread

Done: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7528022/#Comment_7528022

Vrienda

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

There's too many bugs for them to fix in the less than a month it'll be until launch. It needs delayed or, ideally, scrapping altogether.

Jaimeh

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Yes, they absolutely should. Even the people who really wanted this feature should ask for a delay, so that the team can comb out all the bugs, instead of releasing it in a half-baked form, and we get stuck with the problems and wait then for patch fixes if and when they happen.

Katinas

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

This system cannot go to Live server regardless when - dungeon DLC or Chapter update. It needs serious work and proper attention. And devs need to listen to 50 plus pages of players feedback with what mostly is disagreeing on how the system is met by the playerbase.

Zezin

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

Save current character data and release it as is, then work on a separate system for characters.

Mushroomancer

Other

I would like them to be implemented ASAP, but they really need to be looked at. Too many bugs and broken interactions.

teslacoil68k

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Once they release this broken update, there is no going back, all data is lost. As it is now, it not only kills replayability of a lot of content, it also breaks character interactions during quests (two queens in Elsweyr, side stories like the Choixth, etc), plus makes tracking skyshard/delve/dolmen completion per character needlessly difficult. Museum quest fix is a step in the right direction, but too little, too late.

ADarklore

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Based on what I've seen, I think it would be easier to implement this at a later time while taking all the pages of comments into consideration.

Saieden

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

ADarklore wrote: »

Based on what I've seen, I think it would be easier to implement this at a later time while taking all the pages of comments into consideration.

That's assuming this part of the code was properly modularised and on a separate branch, that all the new content and upcoming features were also written to support such a rollback of the code and data structures, and most of all that ZoS had a rollback strategy from the start. Also, there is the issue of console validation.

kringled_1

Wolfpaw wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

I say just put them in as is. There's going to be bumps in the road, bugs and glitches and hurt feelings, but I think this is one of those things that requires the Band-Aid to be ripped off all at once. It will end up being okay in the end.

Agree.

According to Mr. Firor performance problems have been found, & going to take a lot of work fixing, let's not slow that process this year with AWA...PvP players have been waiting far too long.

While I share your sentiment on pvp improvements if not your urgency, how AwA has rolled out on PTS should make you extremely nervous. AwA shows where ZOS is on having a deep understanding of their existing code base, on correctly allocating time and resources for a project, on their understanding of customer desires, and their commitment to releasing a quality product. And none of it is a particularly good look.

CrystalExarch

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

simox wrote: »

Dont have an issue with account wide achievements in principle, but wiping out up to 8 years of peoples character history really irks me. Surely there must be someway to preserve that before this is pushed to live servers.

I'm with you on this. There should be delayed till the code has been ironed out for good.
I find myself thinking how would I feel should I have been in the shoes of those playing eight years now... I just can't.

silvereyes

Other

Okay, after seeing now that Kari's Hit List museum achievements don't progress the Thieves Guild reputation after becoming character-specific yesterday (amongst other bugs that may or may not be due to an incomplete revert to character-specific scope), I'm firmly in the, "this should be delayed to a future update," camp now. Its too late make a functioning compromise system within the one remaining week of PTS.

Just from a risk management standpoint, with the unexpected bugs list that just keeps getting larger, the negative reception due to lost functionality, and the irreversible / unfixable nature of everything once it goes live, I would be having ulcers right now if I were ZOS.

Rollbacks, lost achievements, achievements and rewards permanently locked out, unfinishable quests, NPCs sitting on each other's laps, broken immersion, broken maps: these are just a few of the complaints they can look forward to fielding for months to come if they decide to release on time.

And top that all off with the disappointment from average players when they realize that "account-wide achievements" doesn't apply meaningfully to most of the grind they still have to deal with on alts (skyshards, skill lines, PvP rank, lore books, motifs, mount training, etc).

TequilaFire

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Nothing should be released till it actually works with out breaking things in the game.
I could give a flying bullfrog about titles, but the game should not be borked over letting people skip playing the game over.

peacenote

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

code65536 wrote: »

It's not ready.

More importantly, it's not reversible. Character-specific information will be forever lost, so there's no "undo" button that you can press.

As such, it's reckless and irresponsible to go ahead with AWC with so many outstanding issues. The feature needs more time to bake and should be pushed back to the next update.

This. The functionality is so core to the game that it really needs to be done 100%. And even if some of the "issues" were purposeful preferences, I think the community deserves some time AFTER the Q&A to adjust, take screenshots, whatever, before it goes live. For some of the concerns we don't even know for certain if they are bugs or not, so little communication have we received back from the current mega-thread of feedback.

AlnilamE

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Nope, i want it as soon as possible
Now that the museum qust are repaired, they only need to make the map not turn white on its own. And i personnaly wont ave any problem with them launching it as it is
Stuff can stay discovered if need be but do not show them as complete

I will wait until the NA characters are back on PTS to test if certain NPCs react to you as if you'd already met them if you have never done their quests on that character.

Odovacar

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

I'm not on PTS but I've ofc read some of the issues with account wide achievements...

I'm mostly all for the implementation but I'll never root for anything to roll out on live until its crystal (or as best as ZOS can get it). Like CODE said earlier...if things happen it would/could be irreversible.

As excited as many may be I feel this implementation should wait until chapter release in June.

RoseTheSnowElf

Other

I voted "other" only because this whole thing has given me the impression that the intertwined nature of the Achievements system with the game's log of saved progress is too messy to "fix" by June let alone by next month.

It seems like this would take longer to untangle and properly design to update the Achievements system while still preserving the individual Character log of progress.

I'm not against the principle of AWA, but I'm not convinced the current design and implementation on PTS is going to be a positive change to the game as a whole. For anyone really.

matterandstuff

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

The current PTS implementation of account-wide achievements is so overwhelmingly broken that it needs to be put off until it works, giving the developers time to fix the underlying architecture in a way that just wasn't done because it's been so rushed.

There are literally hundreds of bugs - some of them so obvious and so gamebreaking for anyone who quests on multiple characters that it'll lead to a massive, obvious, and entirely preventable backlash/player exodus the second it goes live. The mess with the museum achievements hotfix attempt makes clear that there's no easy way of going back after it's put in place due to the mass destruction of character data.

There is basically unanimous support for putting it off among anyone who's actually paid attention to the implementation , with the only support for a live launch now coming from people who are both just so fixated on the idea of accountwide achievements and having a tl;dr response to the horrendously broken implementation that they'll support it in any state - but even they will have to wrangle with the mess this has made if it ever hits live and presumably will pay attention then.

wolfie1.0.

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Wolfpaw wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

I say just put them in as is. There's going to be bumps in the road, bugs and glitches and hurt feelings, but I think this is one of those things that requires the Band-Aid to be ripped off all at once. It will end up being okay in the end.

Agree.

According to Mr. Firor performance problems have been found, & going to take a lot of work fixing, let's not slow that process this year with AWA...PvP players have been waiting far too long.

If zos delays this indefinitely then they can focus on performance. I find it highly doubtful that the reason they are doing AwA is do to a performance improvement.

If that were the case there are a lot other items they can cut out including the halting od adding new achievements, and new motifs, and new items to the game to halt it.

wolfie1.0.

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

TPishek wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

And you are assuming that they won't delete it. We won't know until or unless ZOS gives us assurances that it's backed up. All we as players can go off of is what we can see in the ui and in our gaming experiences on the PTS. It's logical for us to assume that it will be gone forever unless ZOS gives us a hint that it will be preserved.