Do you like the vampire nerfs every patch?

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Also, one huge QoL improvement, for those few of us that run at stage 4 and want to talk to NPC's would be to let us use hypnosis in some other way, having it slot it and not working 80% of the time sucks BIG time.

It works, you just have to be standing in front of the merchant. And as you can well imagine positioning is key, and some merchants are lovingly facing a brick wall. Thanks, ZOS!!!

Please change Mesmerize, ZOS. Have it stun everyone in the Cone/AoE and make it unblockable if they're facing your direction. That'd make it so much more reliable and useful while keeping the looking at you mechanic. Pretty please, ZOS.

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

It works, you just have to be standing in front of the merchant. And as you can well imagine positioning is key, and some merchants are lovingly facing a brick wall. Thanks, ZOS!!!

Please change Mesmerize, ZOS. Have it stun everyone in the Cone/AoE and make it unblockable if they're facing your direction. That'd make it so much more reliable and useful while keeping the looking at you mechanic. Pretty please, ZOS.

I've already found a few NPC's where the skill simply refuses to land (i.e. bags vendor in Mournhold) even if they're facing. A horrible implementation. Make it work like persuasion/intimidation.

And yeah, changing Mesmerize in that way would actually make it pretty darn powerful and I would perma slot it in PvP.

Also, Vevvev, I really appreciate what you're doing with the Vampire feedback, I don't know what we would do without you, but aren't you getting tired? *I* even hear the echo of my own voice at this point and I haven't been around for as long as you have. You know, like talking to a well. ZOS could do much better when it comes to communication. If there aren't any significant changes in High Isle for Vampires -- I'm really going to lose all hope.

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

It works, you just have to be standing in front of the merchant. And as you can well imagine positioning is key, and some merchants are lovingly facing a brick wall. Thanks, ZOS!!!

Please change Mesmerize, ZOS. Have it stun everyone in the Cone/AoE and make it unblockable if they're facing your direction. That'd make it so much more reliable and useful while keeping the looking at you mechanic. Pretty please, ZOS.

Also, Vevvev, I really appreciate what you're doing with the Vampire feedback, I don't know what we would do without you, but aren't you getting tired?

Yes, I don't even really play the game anymore.

My RP guild died, PvP is fun but easy to burn out in with all the issues, and with AwA and the bugs on top I've just lost my drive.

But if someone makes a vampire thread here you can guarantee I'll be reading it, lol. It might be an unhealthy obsession I'll be honest, but I really want the skill line to be balanced and fun to use. Not meta because being the meta gets you nerfed, but not worthless either.

Also I want vampire to feel like a vampire, but right now the whole feeding mechanic doesn't incentivize feeding. It's just... there. All it does is mess with your stage but you're not taking the life out of people, you don't heal from it, and you have no reason to do it before anything. The timer doesn't degrade when you're offline, and some weeks when I'll only log in to do writs my character will never drop from stage 4.

There's no blood pool, there's no healing, and there is no effect on your stage timer for using vampire abilities. There's no real incentive to feed at all once you're at the preferred stage unless you play nonstop for more than 4 hours, and then you just eat 1 person.

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

There's no blood pool, there's no healing, and there is no effect on your stage timer for using vampire abilities. There's no real incentive to feed at all once you're at the preferred stage unless you play nonstop for more than 4 hours then you just eat 1 person.

The rework could have made Vampires so damn amazing, even if they had half of what you're suggesting. Too bad it will probably never happen.

Ryuvain

Sadly ZOS doesn't really communicate. I get how some don't play much, but hold out hope that they update and fix their favorite things. (Vamps and werewolves for me.)

Shagreth

Ryuvain wrote: »

Sadly ZOS doesn't really communicate. I get how some don't play much, but hold out hope that they update and fix their favorite things. (Vamps and werewolves for me.)

I know it probably sounds hyperbolic, but Vampires & Werewolves is what makes ESO special for me and it's one of the biggest reasons I play. TES series in general. Yeah, we can hope they do.

LesserCircle

Shagreth wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Sadly ZOS doesn't really communicate. I get how some don't play much, but hold out hope that they update and fix their favorite things. (Vamps and werewolves for me.)

I know it probably sounds hyperbolic, but Vampires & Werewolves is what makes ESO special for me and it's one of the biggest reasons I play. TES series in general. Yeah, we can hope they do.

I get this, it isn't a vampire or werewolf game and that's what makes it great for it. You feel special being one, you can roleplay with it, we could play effectively in content as well in the past.

Shagreth

LesserCircle wrote: »

I get this, it isn't a vampire or werewolf game and that's what makes it great for it. You feel special being one, you can roleplay with it, we could play effectively in content as well in the past.

Indeed. And I've been around long enough to know that there's a HUGE community of people like me and you that care for said concepts and wish they were in a better place, I know that ZOS knows too, yet they do very little for said groups. I don't know how to feel about that. Radio silence makes your imagination run wild.

I'd hate for my inner cynic to take over and start being dismissive towards ZOS because "they only do things that bring them money" I know it's not the case and it would be the easiest thing to say. There's people that care deeply for the game in there, and that's where I'm placing my hope to, that one dude with extra time will sit down and work on these abandoned by god skill-lines. @ZOS_Bill

Honestly? I would be more fine if the 'feel' of being a vampire was there, little has changed since beta on that department. At least back in the day vampires were actually strong.

BalticBlues

The latest Vampire nerfs finally hit rock bottom:

First, a Vampire skill NOT WORKING ANYMORE IN PVE becomes a USELESS SKILL.
This is PRETENDING GAMEPLAY where in reality there is NONE.

Second, a nerfed skill that suddenly needs A LONG TIME TO EVEN LOAD UP gets useless in PVP.
This also is PRETENDING GAMEPLAY where in reality there is NONE.

ZOS, we need skills which are RELIABLE AND USEFUL for BOTH PvE and PvP.
Not the incredible MESS of working or not working or slow-loading skills we finally have now.

WrathOfInnos

Looks like the vamp meta continues for DPS, with the new Burning Embers heal allowing easy sustain of Simmering Frenzy. Looking at Yolnahkriin HM we see the top vampire hitting 105k single target while the top non-vamp is at 101k. I'm honestly ok with this balance, there is some risk, and ~4% more damage as a reward. Much better than previous patches where vampirism was a full 25% DPS increase, but players would drop dead if anything light attacked them.

https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/12#boss=44&metric=bossdps

BalticBlues

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

top vampire hitting 105k single target while the top non-vamp is at 101k.

4% more DPS at the loss of no outside healing? No, thank you.

What comes next?
10% more DPS if you cannot move?
25% more DPS if you cannot bar-swap?
Sorry, I find this "get gimped to get better" is just bad game design.

We have 6 classes which are fine.
We have a kind of WW class which is fine.
But why we have to endure a gimped kind of Vampire class which gets more gimped each patch?

You really notice when a game designer does NOT LIKE something he is responsible for...

Shagreth

The fact that there's people defending the current iteration and design philosophy of vampirism in the slightest depresses me.

Here's the facts: 'rp' wise they have failed us, gameplay & overall performance -- same thing. There's no winners, this needs a rework, but my guess is that the best we can hope is tweaked numbers. I want a proper feeding system where feeding often is encouraged, a system that makes me feel like a vampire, also, some kind of slight penalty while out in the sun, just for the hell of it. Like, they can remove the HP regen penalty from stages and make it be while under sunlight, that would help vampire survivability slightly, sometimes.

We know of a certain company that recently went down big time because they were so out of touch with their playerbase, I really hope we won't be saying the same for ZOS in the future, I care deeply for this game.

WrathOfInnos

BalticBlues wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

top vampire hitting 105k single target while the top non-vamp is at 101k.

4% more DPS at the loss of no outside healing? No, thank you.

What comes next?
10% more DPS if you cannot move?
25% more DPS if you cannot bar-swap?
Sorry, I find this "get gimped to get better" is just bad game design.

We have 6 classes which are fine.
We have a kind of WW class which is fine.
But why we have to endure a gimped kind of Vampire class which gets more gimped each patch?

You really notice when a game designer does NOT LIKE something he is responsible for...

I understand your sentiment, and agree I'll pass on the DPS gain because I find the cost increase on skills and removal of external healing annoying. That doesn't change the fact that vampire is literally the peak DPS build by a significant margin, and should not have it's power increased. Werewolf is very low on the damage charts in PVE, and only seems to be useful in PVP.

10% more DPS if you cannot move is basically what Siroria provided for years, and it was wonderful. A much better mechanic than Thrassian, Pale Order, or Bahsei. A set with great rewards, and appropriate restrictions to match. It was never universal (forget it in places like vAS), but it was strong enough to motivate players to try on certain encounters (even for Sunspire fights with some movement).

I have no problem with vampire getting more lore-related changes, or non-combat buffs. They definitely should not become any stronger in damage or survivability, we've had enough ridiculous patches where everyone had to build as a vamp to be close to competitive.

Shagreth

Time to revive the thread. Looking at the PTS and one certain mythic item -- I predict that werewolves will be quite powerful, as for vampires, it's another expansion in the trash heap. No rework, not even a minor one, just some number tweaking and now feeding apparently restores our HP. Yeah, if I could use that during combat somehow it would be nice, it would balance (somewhat) the fact that we can't be healed under certain conditions. @ZOS_GinaBruno it's not too late guys, give us something.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Shagreth wrote: »

Time to revive the thread. Looking at the PTS and one certain mythic item -- I predict that werewolves will be quite powerful, as for vampires, it's another expansion in the trash heap. No rework, not even a minor one, just some number tweaking and now feeding apparently restores our HP. Yeah, if I could use that during combat somehow it would be nice, it would balance (somewhat) the fact that we can't be healed under certain conditions. @ZOS_GinaBruno it's not too late guys, give us something.

You know Mesmerize could be made so it allows the vampire to feed.

Shagreth

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You know Mesmerize could be made so it allows the vampire to feed.

The whole line and experience are in dire need of a rework, but yeah, that could work. We would have to sacrifice DPS and one slot for this though, and vampire is already in a pretty *** spot in PvE. They would have to add new animations etc. though, combat feed of sorts.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Shagreth wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You know Mesmerize could be made so it allows the vampire to feed.

The whole line and experience are in dire need of a rework, but yeah, that could work. We would have to sacrifice DPS and one slot for this though, and vampire is already in a pretty *** spot in PvE. They would have to add new animations etc. though, combat feed of sorts.

They would not need to add new animations, just use the animations we have when you jump on them besides feeding is an instant kill anyway.

JMadFour

Ryuvain wrote: »

Sadly ZOS doesn't really communicate. I get how some don't play much, but hold out hope that they update and fix their favorite things. (Vamps and werewolves for me.)

This is me. I check in from time to time to see what they've done to Vampires.

I'm actually considering making a Werewolf now that being a Mage type doesn't completely counteract it, cause I've never given it a serious try.

PileggiPileggi

Undeath is the only passive that mitigates the extra fire dmg so if they nerf undeath I think solo vamp will be pretty much unviable, which I really don't want. Seems vampire has more penalties than benefits as each patch emerges..We also got vampire lord set just incase we want more penalties for some reason...

Particularly I don't like how they just disabled mist form in PvE, just feels wrong and lazy, 10-15% DR in PvE would of been fine. Simmering Frenzy nerf was not a big deal, only used for gank builds and not worth using for solo build, trust me I tried. It is better now in its current state in some ways and I wish mist form got the same tone down treatment instead of just being disabled in PvE.

I don't think vamp should ever be competitive for group play but clearly the skill line is intended for solo play mostly and is different from werewolf in that it is a passive and more modular skill line. Unfortunately, this just doesn't work balance wise cause what is good for solo can also be good for PvP and tanks which is why we keep getting these nerfs every patch.

Castian

I cured my Templar of vampirism b/c after the simmering frenzy nerf it was no longer worthwhile. The current cap of 400 dmg is a very poor reward for the costs attached to it.

Gambling with my character's life was fun for the reward it brought and it wasn't as if you could leave it running permanently as the hp cost became too great to sustain. I had thought that was the point of the Pale Order Ring, bringing out more of the potential of the skill while increasing the chance you get yourself killed while doing it.

As for the other comments about the skill line falling back to being just for passives, it seems like the rework for Vampire has gone in a circle. It was primarily for the passives before and with each nerf it seems like it has returned to its starting point. At the moment my tank only has any real use for the skill line, that being solely Undeath.

Maybe it'll unnerf or not and we're no worse off than we were to begin with.

TPishek

BalticBlues wrote: »

What comes next?
...
25% more DPS if you cannot bar-swap?

LesserCircle

TPishek wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

What comes next?
...
25% more DPS if you cannot bar-swap?

Welp

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Role playing is the only reason to have a vampire character now, and it's been that way for awhile. Although mist form is still pretty cool looking.

Shagreth

Since there won't be a rework for yet another year, at the very least I'm hoping for some buffs. Vampire Scion is an extremely weak ult, and that's just one of the many problematic skills.

Please don't let us down. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Necrotech_Master

i definitely agree that vamp desperately needs some help

the only toon i have that is still a vamp is my stealth toon, purely because of the free removal of the sneak speed penalty and nothing else

even NB have a better "drain" than vamps lol

Mr_Stach

But seriously, I want Vamp to be good. Pls Zos. Help a Brother with unhealthy eating habits out.

rpa

I have to admit, I don't recall much how it was cause I mostly stopped playing vampire when it was turned inside out and recently have been on longish break from game. (Only checking PTS currently.) I'm not against small adjustments but I do have trouble keeping up with sudden massive changes which appears to be the usual way in this gaem.

divnyi

I don't think frenzy needs "no outside heals" restriction now.

PvE? Let it be the skill for good parties with healer doing strong heals. At least something to justify vamps.
PvP? It's harder to outheal anyway due to self-damage is not cut via battle spirit and healing is cut via battle spirit. Another layer of DoT on yourself is seriously crippling.

Also would be QoL improvement to disable them as soon as you hit 20% hp, just so you don't die to stupid things like idk enemy pet light attacking you for 500 damage.

Also would be nice to have something unique with simmering frenzy, not just bland number increase. Some buff at full stacks maybe.

JMadFour

ZOS I am once again asking you for a Ranged Eviscerate Morph.

Shagreth

So many nice suggestions here, the vampire experience is lacking on so many levels and now we'll have to wait for yet another year.

p.s. google 'V Rising' if you're reading this and you're a vampire fan. Thank me later.