Do you like the vampire nerfs every patch?

LesserCircle

After the latest PTS patch notes 7.3.2 and the nerf of shimmering frenzy it really seems like ZOS doesn't want players to play as a vampire. Greymoor changes were bad enough (in my opinion) but I understand everyone was a vampire for passives before that(Even tho everyone is a vampire for the undeath passive in PvP).

The toggle requires a very high skill and understanding of the game to use correctly or you will find yourself dead on the ground very quickly, why remove a skill that rewards players for learning how to use it? I just don't understand these constant changes(nerfs) to vampire.

So as the title says I would like to know what is the general opinion about it.

Jaimeh

I didn't like the revamp to begin with; before that I had a reason to keep vamp stam toons in PvE, afterwards, it was only worth it for PvP (for certain builds), and for mostly toggle/mist mag toons in PvE. Then mist got nerfed and now it's shimmering franzy's turn, and it's not even like all DDs use toggle so it needed tuning down that badly, it's very few for some fights for some groups, and so on. I have a vested interest in the vamp line because I'm in the minority who like the vamp look, at least up to stage 2, so I was hoping for yet another rework of the line. From what I've read though, this change will make toggle safer/easier to use, even if it's not as powerful, it will still do nicely.

ajkb78

Other. The revamp is unfixable and needs to be replaced with a full 3 class line vampire rework.

Mayrael

In fact, frenzy was the only skill I used from the vampire arsenal. Now I will be able to become a mortal again without any remorse, because vampire as for me is totally useless.

Great job ZOS! /s

Remathilis

Werewolf has a clear play style: big bursty damage at the cost of versatility. You're ww bar is fixed save for morphs and they can control that play style.

Psijic somehow has a clear play style: extra utility magic for majicka characters. Shields, a heal, extra boosts, and a decent spammable with no cost other than the grind to get it.

Vampire feels like they keep trying to make it about int thing. It's supposed to be a stealthy bomber if you look at it objectively, but they keep trying to take away the tools needed. They want you to sneak in, stun your foe, rend them with fury, drain some resources off it and then escape back to the shadows. Using your life to achieve this extra damage and not being healable encourages risky solo play where a lucky or good foe who survives your ambush has you at a disadvantage now. The thing is,v that kind of solo bomber play is really only good in one avenue of play (IC PvP) and that is a niche and fairly reviled play style. It also synergizes in unpredictable ways with other skill lines that ZoS doesn't want (ie mist tanks). So they keep finding people aren't playing vampires as solo bombers and keep trying to force them into that role.

ZoS also seems to get annoyed when players circumvent penalties. Several antiquities (Thrassian, Malacath) sets (New Moon Acolyte) and abilities like blood for blood and blood frenzy have been shackled with harsher and harsher penalties because people have the audacity to find ways to mitigate then.

Clearly, the solo stealth bomber is a design bust. It's too narrow a niche for most content and it doesn't even do it's job well enough vs a kitted out nightblade. It's not working and ZoS doesn't seem to understand that vampire is useless in all but the most niche builds. Compared to ww or psijic, it's barely usable.

kojou

I cured all of my vampires after the re-vamp, so therefore I feel indifferent about this change.

xylena_lazarow

Nerf Undeath, buff everything else about it...

divnyi

The only valid change was Blood for Blood nerf.
All other feel like they made perfectly valid mechanic but nerf them because players use it.
As if they don't want players to play a game.

Veg

Removing batswarm killed the entire skill line for like 90% of the people using it. Vamp skill line is now just mist form for Mag DK's and templars in pvp. Nothing else is even remotely useful. Dead skill line. Let it rest in PP.

SkaraMinoc

If they ever nerf Undeath then Vampire is done for.

J18696

Honestly besides mist form in pvp and frenzy in some scenarios nearly all the vampire skills are pretty much 100% useless shame to see the 2nd useful skill get nerfed

TX12001rwb17_ESO

One thing that could probably save Vampirism would be quite simple

Stage 2 Passive becomes Unnatural Movement

The Reasoning is so Stage 1 and Stage 2 when your supposed to be at your weakest would be your "Running Away and Trying to avoid combat stages, this would be more consistent, this would replace Strike from Shadows which can only be proceed by specific conditions and something most builds cannot take advantage of

Stage 4 becomes Supernatural Strength

This passive would grant a bonus 300 weapon and spell damage at all times making stage 4 the "Strongest" combat stage, the difference between this effect and Strike from Shadows is it would be active at all times and would be at Stage 4 to compensate for that

Replace Blood Frenzy with a Gap Closer or another ability

Enough Said

K9002

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

This was a vampire nerf, but I am thinking it was mostly a ganking nerf for pvp. This combined with the nerf to molag kena and curse of doylemish absolutely obliterated melee ganking. Not saying it will be gone next patch because there is still ways, but its going to hurt a lot less to have a nb back stab you. Was one of the only combos that was more then capable of killing meta magplars and magdks. Nothing is allowed to threaten the tank meta, NOTHING!

Faulgor

K9002 wrote: »

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

Mesmerize: Decrease the duration of this skill and its morphs from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds, to be closer in line with other stun skills.

• Hypnosis: This skill now targets up to 2 enemies, instead of everyone around you.
• Stupefy: Removed the snare from this morph. Instead, it increases the duration of the stun by 0.5 seconds per rank, up to 5 seconds.

(:

But seriously, I've never even seen anyone mention that this skill exists. We joke how bad Drain is, but Mesmerize is not even worth a joke.

mmtaniac

I never touch vampire so don't care about skills but passive Undeath should be nerfed its too strong.

Hlaaluna

The Greymoor changes to vampirism is the single biggest mess they made in the game. Every time they touch it they just make it worse. I was they would roll it back to pre Greymoor and then keep their mits off it.

Necrotech_Master

Faulgor wrote: »

K9002 wrote: »

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

Mesmerize: Decrease the duration of this skill and its morphs from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds, to be closer in line with other stun skills.

• Hypnosis: This skill now targets up to 2 enemies, instead of everyone around you.
• Stupefy: Removed the snare from this morph. Instead, it increases the duration of the stun by 0.5 seconds per rank, up to 5 seconds.

(:

But seriously, I've never even seen anyone mention that this skill exists. We joke how bad Drain is, but Mesmerize is not even worth a joke.

mesmerize is one of those skills you only really get to allow talking to NPCs as a stage 3/4 vamp lol

xylena_lazarow

I don't see why one of the Mesmerize morphs can't become a clone of Turn Evil or Mass Hysteria so that it can actually be usable in PvP, the "facing you" restriction makes it laughably bad in any real PvP combat.

One of the spammable morphs should be usable on normal builds. One of the drain morphs should be a normal DoT. One of the frenzy morphs could be a gap closer or something. Mist is nerfed enough, we can remove the idiotic cast time that gets you killed before the ability even fires (if it even fires at all).

Most every competitive player running vamp is doing it solely for the near-free Pariah 5pc that is Undeath, probably the most broken op passive in any skill line in the entire game. Gut it, rework it, idc but buff everything else if you do that, preferably in a way that lends it self to something resembling normal gameplay, not degenerate one shots from otherwise unplayable builds that cause 3 other things to get nerfed too.

Remathilis

I eagerly await ZoS now nerfing Mesmerize and Undeath now.

Make vampirism a skin and be done with it.

Vevvev

Faulgor wrote: »

K9002 wrote: »

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

Mesmerize: Decrease the duration of this skill and its morphs from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds, to be closer in line with other stun skills.

• Hypnosis: This skill now targets up to 2 enemies, instead of everyone around you.
• Stupefy: Removed the snare from this morph. Instead, it increases the duration of the stun by 0.5 seconds per rank, up to 5 seconds.

(:

But seriously, I've never even seen anyone mention that this skill exists. We joke how bad Drain is, but Mesmerize is not even worth a joke.

I don't like that change to make the stun last shorter then remove the snare on Stupefy. All that skill needs to make it actually good and worthwhile is the removal of the looking at you rule, or a redesign of what looking at you entails.

I suggested in the past making it so the stun will stun anyone in the AoE, but it only becomes an unblockable stun when the target is looking at you. Keeps the flavor of the ability and makes it far more useful.

SkaraMinoc

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Most every competitive player running vamp is doing it solely for the near-free Pariah 5pc that is Undeath, probably the most broken op passive in any skill line in the entire game.

If you do the math, the Pariah 5 piece bonus provides more damage reduction than Undeath until somewhere between 40 and 60% health, depending on total armor and other sources of damage reduction.

Is Undeath strong? Yes
Is it worth going Vampire Stage 3 just for Undeath in PvP? Yes
Is it broken? No

The only scenario where Undeath is incredibly stat dense is extremely low levels of armor and damage reduction. We're talking < 10k armor and no sources of damage reduction. At that point it's about the same as Ironblood's 5 piece bonus. If you have that little mitigation then you're a free kill in PvP anyways.

Also, let's not forget those 10k molten whip crits you'll be taking even with 2k+ critical resistance.

Vampire Stage 3

• +13% flame damage taken
• +8% ability costs

xylena_lazarow

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Is Undeath strong? Yes. Is it worth going Vampire Stage 3 just for Undeath in PvP? Yes. Is it broken? No. Also, let's not forget those 10k molten whip crits you'll be taking even with 2k+ critical resistance.

Sorry I should've specified that my experience is based on the CP Cyro meta, haven't been in BGs in a while, and it's been even longer since I've randomly found myself 1v1 against a pro dueler mdk in Cyro. The overall frequency of fire damage in Cyro is currently pretty low, Fighters Guild and Dawnbreaker even lower (lol cast times). My solo damage sdk runs minimal sustain investment and still gives up no damage for Stage 3. Oh, what about giving up HP regen? Yea another lol.

I guess we disagree on this part, but to me if the only reason to be vamp is a passive that makes you tanky, and it's so strong that it alone outweighs all the drawbacks, then that passive is busted while the rest of the kit is badly underpowered (occasional degenerate one shot build aside).

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Is Undeath strong? Yes. Is it worth going Vampire Stage 3 just for Undeath in PvP? Yes. Is it broken? No. Also, let's not forget those 10k molten whip crits you'll be taking even with 2k+ critical resistance.

Sorry I should've specified that my experience is based on the CP Cyro meta, haven't been in BGs in a while, and it's been even longer since I've randomly found myself 1v1 against a pro dueler mdk in Cyro. The overall frequency of fire damage in Cyro is currently pretty low, Fighters Guild and Dawnbreaker even lower (lol cast times). My solo damage sdk runs minimal sustain investment and still gives up no damage for Stage 3. Oh, what about giving up HP regen? Yea another lol.

I guess we disagree on this part, but to me if the only reason to be vamp is a passive that makes you tanky, and it's so strong that it alone outweighs all the drawbacks, then that passive is busted while the rest of the kit is badly underpowered (occasional degenerate one shot build aside).

Then clearly we need to "buff"' the flame damage taken back to how it used to be. Stage 3 before the rework had vampires take 20% more flame damage despite Undeath being more of an execution ability protection passive, and a pretty meh one at that.

xylena_lazarow

Vevvev wrote: »

Then clearly we need to "buff"' the flame damage taken back to how it used to be. Stage 3 before the rework had vampires take 20% more flame damage despite Undeath being more of an execution ability protection passive, and a pretty meh one at that.

Or remove the inexcusable cast time from Dawnbreaker and un-nerf HP regen (to a reasonable extent this time).

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Then clearly we need to "buff"' the flame damage taken back to how it used to be. Stage 3 before the rework had vampires take 20% more flame damage despite Undeath being more of an execution ability protection passive, and a pretty meh one at that.

Or remove the inexcusable cast time from Dawnbreaker and un-nerf HP regen (to a reasonable extent this time).

Unnerfing HP regen and toning it to a point it's reasonable is good to.

James-Wayne

Not able to use Mist Form in PvE killed Vampire for me.

Dalsinthus

Seems like they need to rework this skill line again to make it offer more. The can only heal self stuff just doesn’t work in an MMO. It’s also extremely game-y; like what’s the lore reason that healers cannot heal a vampire when they’ve cast certain skills.

Give it a buff skill, a melee spamable, a cc, a gap closer, a damage mitigation skill, and a heal or dot.

Faulgor

Vevvev wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

K9002 wrote: »

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

Mesmerize: Decrease the duration of this skill and its morphs from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds, to be closer in line with other stun skills.

• Hypnosis: This skill now targets up to 2 enemies, instead of everyone around you.
• Stupefy: Removed the snare from this morph. Instead, it increases the duration of the stun by 0.5 seconds per rank, up to 5 seconds.

(:

But seriously, I've never even seen anyone mention that this skill exists. We joke how bad Drain is, but Mesmerize is not even worth a joke.

I don't like that change to make the stun last shorter then remove the snare on Stupefy. All that skill needs to make it actually good and worthwhile is the removal of the looking at you rule, or a redesign of what looking at you entails.

I suggested in the past making it so the stun will stun anyone in the AoE, but it only becomes an unblockable stun when the target is looking at you. Keeps the flavor of the ability and makes it far more useful.

I hope you understand that I was joking.

I like your suggestion, though.

rymere83

I only use mist form to run away and mesmerize so i can actually talk to npc's lol kinda silly restriction

Mephit

Sarcasm...

They clearly want Vamps to be cosmetic only.... so why not remove the penalties and be done with it