Do you like the vampire nerfs every patch?

Vaoh

I’m tired of them being so indecisive about their own game.

Have a clear focus for what each ability is meant to do, balance it, and leave it alone. Wasn’t the point of spreadsheet-based tooltip homogenization to make the game braindead easy to balance? Isn’t that why so many abilities became copy/paste of each other?

At this rate we will never get any new classes or skill lines. They’ll just keep redoing the abilities we already have.

Vevvev

Faulgor wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

K9002 wrote: »

At this point I can't wait for the future patches to see what else can be taken from vampires and what new penalties can be added. It takes some creativity to further ruin something that's already nigh unplayable.

Mesmerize: Decrease the duration of this skill and its morphs from 5 seconds down to 3 seconds, to be closer in line with other stun skills.

• Hypnosis: This skill now targets up to 2 enemies, instead of everyone around you.
• Stupefy: Removed the snare from this morph. Instead, it increases the duration of the stun by 0.5 seconds per rank, up to 5 seconds.

(:

But seriously, I've never even seen anyone mention that this skill exists. We joke how bad Drain is, but Mesmerize is not even worth a joke.

I don't like that change to make the stun last shorter then remove the snare on Stupefy. All that skill needs to make it actually good and worthwhile is the removal of the looking at you rule, or a redesign of what looking at you entails.

I suggested in the past making it so the stun will stun anyone in the AoE, but it only becomes an unblockable stun when the target is looking at you. Keeps the flavor of the ability and makes it far more useful.

I hope you understand that I was joking.

I like your suggestion, though.

The joke flew over my head, my bad lol.

francesinhalover

Only good think that came from vamp rework was the stealth blood drink animations

Wolfchild07

NPC vampires have a great skill line. Just give us that.

BronzeCaiman

Vampire is realistically only for PvP, we got 4 skills designed for PvP not including morphs, Siege Shield, Magelight, Expert Hunter & and Revealing Flare. Sure some have some passive buffs for PvE but why not make a morph actually useful in PvE.

PvP is what ruins PvE at its heart, they should have made a 3rd megaserver with open world PvP everywhere to be honest, but it would just die when people realize they could play many other games with actual balanced PvP, or even League Of Legends with PvP being the heart of the game.

xylena_lazarow

BlackArgonian wrote: »

Vampire is realistically only for PvP

The only reason people use it in PvP is Undeath, or occasionally when a degenerate one-shot build pops up.

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

Vampire is realistically only for PvP

The only reason people use it in PvP is Undeath, or occasionally when a degenerate one-shot build pops up.

Or Mistform and Swarming Scion. Some crazy people pick up Blood for Blood to.

xylena_lazarow

Vevvev wrote: »

Or Mistform and Swarming Scion. Some crazy people pick up Blood for Blood to.

I haven't seen much mist in a long time outside the occasional troll tank. The unlisted cast time gets you killed if you try to use it in any tight defensive situation on a normal build, and even if you manage to cast it from LoS safety, it's 50/50 whether it'll actually cast. Race Against Time is simply superior, and it lets me sprint too!

Blood for Blood shows up on the aforementioned degenerate one-shot builds, and nowhere else. I tried the Magicka spammable morph on a War Maiden magden with that 10% buff and it was still terrible. Swarming Scion... let's just say it earned the nickname "clown form" for good reason. People do try to use it, but its hilariously easy to avoid a giant clown. And the other morph, Perfect Scion, literally never seen it once. Can't we just replace it with the old Bat Swarm?

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Or Mistform and Swarming Scion. Some crazy people pick up Blood for Blood to.

I haven't seen much mist in a long time outside the occasional troll tank. The unlisted cast time gets you killed if you try to use it in any tight defensive situation on a normal build, and even if you manage to cast it from LoS safety, it's 50/50 whether it'll actually cast. Race Against Time is simply superior, and it lets me sprint too!

Blood for Blood shows up on the aforementioned degenerate one-shot builds, and nowhere else. I tried the Magicka spammable morph on a War Maiden magden with that 10% buff and it was still terrible. Swarming Scion... let's just say it earned the nickname "clown form" for good reason. People do try to use it, but its hilariously easy to avoid a giant clown. And the other morph, Perfect Scion, literally never seen it once. Can't we just replace it with the old Bat Swarm?

Yeah, Perfect Scion is just bad. Actually it's worse than bad, it's the worst lol.

I use Blood for Blood on my brawler magDK for the purposes of better sustain. When I'm not getting swarmed it's able to deal decent damage and leave more Magicka for heals, buffs, and DoTs.

Elusive Mist I use all the time for battlefield maneuvering. Typically if I find myself needing to soak up someone's burst, get out of a Necro ultimate, negate meteor, fly through a breach getting sieged, or just need to get away from a Zerg I'm using Mistform. The trick to it is Burst heal + Dodge Roll then activate Elusive Mist. Gives you HP, let's you avoid some damage till the one second global cooldown ends, and then dissolve into a Mist to get away from whatever is trying to kill you.
I find Mistform far more useful than Race Against Time because I'm not trying to disengage from the fight completely, but get out of the red as the PvEers put it. Guaranteed movement vs fast movement.

xylena_lazarow

Vevvev wrote: »

I find Mistform far more useful than Race Against Time because I'm not trying to disengage from the fight completely, but get out of the red as the PvEers put it. Guaranteed movement vs fast movement.

Race is guaranteed for me. The unlisted half second cast time on mist ensures it is never "guaranteed" but I suppose YMMV. There's still no reason for mist to have a cast time. I'd also argue we should be able to sprint in mist too since stam regen is disabled, increase the cost of sprinting while in mist if need be.

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I find Mistform far more useful than Race Against Time because I'm not trying to disengage from the fight completely, but get out of the red as the PvEers put it. Guaranteed movement vs fast movement.

Race is guaranteed for me. The unlisted half second cast time on mist ensures it is never "guaranteed" but I suppose YMMV. There's still no reason for mist to have a cast time. I'd also argue we should be able to sprint in mist too since stam regen is disabled, increase the cost of sprinting while in mist if need be.

Agreed, even made a thread about that some time ago. Technically any sprinting you do while in the form "costs" more because your stamina regeneration is also gutted.

divnyi

Vevvev wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I find Mistform far more useful than Race Against Time because I'm not trying to disengage from the fight completely, but get out of the red as the PvEers put it. Guaranteed movement vs fast movement.

Race is guaranteed for me. The unlisted half second cast time on mist ensures it is never "guaranteed" but I suppose YMMV. There's still no reason for mist to have a cast time. I'd also argue we should be able to sprint in mist too since stam regen is disabled, increase the cost of sprinting while in mist if need be.

Agreed, even made a thread about that some time ago. Technically any sprinting you do while in the form "costs" more because your stamina regeneration is also gutted.

Sorry but disagree. Movement speed stacking and elusive is effective now as it is, actually even kinda broken. Damage absorption is higher than in block, and in dedicated builds with AS shield backbar you can roll in that for days, find some smol LoS breaker, heal for 1 GCD and continue this clown fiesta. If you would be able to do this without building for it, everyone would run it. Pun intended.

Vevvev

divnyi wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I find Mistform far more useful than Race Against Time because I'm not trying to disengage from the fight completely, but get out of the red as the PvEers put it. Guaranteed movement vs fast movement.

Race is guaranteed for me. The unlisted half second cast time on mist ensures it is never "guaranteed" but I suppose YMMV. There's still no reason for mist to have a cast time. I'd also argue we should be able to sprint in mist too since stam regen is disabled, increase the cost of sprinting while in mist if need be.

Agreed, even made a thread about that some time ago. Technically any sprinting you do while in the form "costs" more because your stamina regeneration is also gutted.

Sorry but disagree. Movement speed stacking and elusive is effective now as it is, actually even kinda broken. Damage absorption is higher than in block, and in dedicated builds with AS shield backbar you can roll in that for days, find some smol LoS breaker, heal for 1 GCD and continue this clown fiesta. If you would be able to do this without building for it, everyone would run it. Pun intended.

Could have it where the movement speed bonus granted by sprinting is reduced by 50% while in the form.

xylena_lazarow

divnyi wrote: »

find some smol LoS breaker, heal for 1 GCD and continue this clown fiesta

This is like, 90% of ESO PvP gameplay these days, don't even need mist lol.

Vevvev

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

find some smol LoS breaker, heal for 1 GCD and continue this clown fiesta

This is like, 90% of ESO PvP gameplay these days, don't even need mist lol.

^ This

Some of the best guides out there even support using the terrain to your advantage.

divnyi

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

find some smol LoS breaker, heal for 1 GCD and continue this clown fiesta

This is like, 90% of ESO PvP gameplay these days, don't even need mist lol.

Yeah but with mist you can yolo rest of the time, when not abusing LoS. And trick with mist is not only defensive use, starting the fight in mist is neat trick that allows you to position and time for a cheap price.

Kory

I just use vampire for the strong passives. Mistform when I feel like it, but the rest of the abilities are not for me.

merpins

Original vampire wasn't very good, but it had an ok ultimate and gave a good benefit to magicka players. It needed a rework of some kind, new skills and balancing to make it actually good to use.

New vampire isn't good. Simmering Frenzy and its morphs was the only "Good" skill, and that's being generous. Really, it was only good for ganking and in hyper end-game veteran trial/dungeon runs where people would optimize their party to the point where they'd kill end game hard mode bosses in 20 seconds or less. Not a great design for a skill, if you ask me; it was designed in a way that welcomed abuse. The change to the skill does one thing- it nerfs the skill to the point where there's no reason to use it, but makes it still look appealing to newer players that don't know any better. New vampire needs another rework entirely for it to be decent, because as it sits right now, it's just a dead skill line that only nerfs your character if you use it.

ealdwin

I've never gone with a vampire, so I'm not the most well versed on the effects these nerfs have been having. But, they haven't made running a vampire more tempting. That much I can say.

My general impression, though, is that the Greymoor version of vampirism with subsequent nerfs suffers from a lack of vision. I think it also doesn't help that the current iteration seems to be trying to be universally useful but in the process is universally lackluster. It needs identity... a raison d'être.

One thought I've had in the past is that vampirism should come in three strains or bloodlines:
- The Way of the Blood - hemomancy focused on PVE Magicka DPS and Healing (draining identity)
- The Way of the Bat - Bat and Mist skills focused on mobile PVP Magicka and PVP Stamina (getting into the quick reflexes)
- The Way of the Brute - Gargoyle and Bestial skills focused more on PVE Stamina DPS and Tanking

Of course they wouldn't be strictly tied to roles, but it would give an idea about what each kind of vampire is supposed to be. (Blood = Mage, Bat = Thief, Brute = Warrior).

Anything would be better. This current version is just meh.

Jman100582

yeah hopefully they nerf the undeath passive next

sneakymitchell

Yea like for vampire at least you can use 1-2 of the skills but being a werewolf requires ultimate and pretty much once in werewolf. You are stuck in this 1 bar system. Like almost half of the werewolf skills doesn’t do damage and are just buffs and debuffs you can get it anywhere. While blood frenzy just requires hp to get a lot of weapon damage like a lot more than werewolf. And you can use 2 bars for vampire than compare to werewolf.

I tried vampire for bit. It was pretty powerful just getting high weapon and spell damage.

You can substain yourself decently with good heals so the white pale ring and frenzy was pretty busted so

Spectral_Force

francesinhalover wrote: »

Only good think that came from vamp rework was the stealth blood drink animations

A slightly late reply, but I think at this point I'm inclined to agree. The feeding animations are genuinely great, and I'm pretty sure are about the only aspect of the rework that hasn't left me angry, frustrated, disappointed, or bewildered at some point since the Greymoor update. Even the new bite/infect animation breaks half the time.

Bucky_13

Vampire is still great as long as you don't use any vampire skills and only have it for the passives. Which is kind of depressing. Also, wtb the ability to hide my vampirism, the maormer skin is barely tolerable.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vampire is still great as long as you don't use any vampire skills and only have it for the passives. Which is kind of depressing. Also, wtb the ability to hide my vampirism, the maormer skin is barely tolerable.

Not true, some abilities still have their uses, take for example Blood for Blood, it costs health so you can spam it even if you have 0 magicka, now which set is it that makes your attacks more powerful the less magicka you have?

Swarming Scion is one of the best ultimate's in the game.

Vevvev

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Vampire is still great as long as you don't use any vampire skills and only have it for the passives. Which is kind of depressing. Also, wtb the ability to hide my vampirism, the maormer skin is barely tolerable.

Not true, some abilities still have their uses, take for example Blood for Blood, it costs health so you can spam it even if you have 0 magicka, now which set is it that makes your attacks more powerful the less magicka you have?

Swarming Scion is one of the best ultimate's in the game.

Don't forget Elusive Mist for guaranteed movement in PvP should you need it!

Also managed a clutch victory in PvP with Exhilarating Drain by zapping enough ultimate to Leap + Engulfing Flames to secure the final kill. That ultimate generation isn't to be overlooked in the right hands.

Edit: Yes, I finally found a use for Vampiric Drain lol. Buff on the PTS is going to make using it a little nicer. Pair Exhilarating Drain with a Decisive weapon and Drain Vigor with a Powered weapon. Those traits play into the strengths of the morphs.

Shagreth

After watching some videos, I guess vampires can perform well, in the right hands. I still dislike the rework and think that for the most part vampires are underperforming in PvE, but yeah, PvP -- there's something there, at least. At this point all I can hope for is no more nerfs.

A better looking Scion form would be nice, but I guess I shouldn't be pushing my luck. @ZOS_GinaBruno

@Vevvev, did they revert the frenzy change? I can't see it. Also, Drain change might actually make it useful.

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Vevvev, did they revert the frenzy change? I can't see it. Also, Drain change might actually make it useful.

No, Frenzy change is still how it was in week 3 of the PTS. On one hand I'm looking at it and thinking, "Well dang, they made it weaker", but on the other I'm thinking, "So I can leave Sated Fury on forever now?". My theory crafting mind is coming up with interesting ideas of using the new implementation.

I did the math on Sated Fury's healing on a stage 1 vampire and the results are.... interesting. I'd be glad if someone came through and corrected my numbers but what I found was the following.

Sated Fury's cost numbers ranging from 0 stacks to 10.
658, 846, 1,034, 1,222, 1,410, 1,598, 1,786, 1,974, 2,162, 2,350, 2,538

17,578 total health. Take 33% off that and it's 5,800.74 health.

Add 2,538 every 2 additional seconds and after a full on minute it'll be.... 68,338 total health siphoned for a 22,551.54 point burst heal.

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

Sated Fury's cost numbers ranging from 0 stacks to 10.
658, 846, 1,034, 1,222, 1,410, 1,598, 1,786, 1,974, 2,162, 2,350, 2,538

17,578 total health. Take 33% off that and it's 5,800.74 health.

Add 2,538 every 2 additional seconds and after a full on minute it'll be.... 68,338 total health siphoned for a 22,551.54 point burst heal.

That is very interesting.

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Sated Fury's cost numbers ranging from 0 stacks to 10.
658, 846, 1,034, 1,222, 1,410, 1,598, 1,786, 1,974, 2,162, 2,350, 2,538

17,578 total health. Take 33% off that and it's 5,800.74 health.

Add 2,538 every 2 additional seconds and after a full on minute it'll be.... 68,338 total health siphoned for a 22,551.54 point burst heal.

That is very interesting.

Indeed, I know my magDK with the recent changes to Burning Embers, and the hybrid changes, is going to have the ability to hold this ability up indefinitely without much worry or input. Some other specs will find the same true like a Critical Surge Sorcerer among others with how much healing over time they'll be able to sustain.

End result, Sated Fury next patch in my eyes will be better than Simmering Frenzy. A small 100 spell and weapon damage boost over an infinitely high scaling burst heal just isn't worth it.


Maybe now that I think about it they could do something to Simmering Frenzy to make it 'good' and I believe it might be the Sload's treatment. While it's active to give it an incentive to leaving the ability on they could give you stacks of Simmering Blood alongside the Simmering Fury stacks that decay after 5 to 10 seconds after killing a foe. The stacks would further give a little bit more power but you'd have to continue killing enemies in rapid succession to keep them. Feel that'd make it a bit more competitive as a choice.

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

Maybe now that I think about it they could do something to Simmering Frenzy to make it 'good' and I believe it might be the Sload's treatment. While it's active to give it an incentive to leaving the ability on they could give you stacks of Simmering Blood alongside the Simmering Fury stacks that decay after 5 to 10 seconds after killing a foe. The stacks would further give a little bit more power but you'd have to continue killing enemies in rapid succession to keep them. Feel that'd make it a bit more competitive as a choice.

Such a good idea, here's hoping someone's listening.

After all, I can't bring myself to level another character, so I'm kinda stuck with my Nightblade. Trying to figure out what to do with vampirism, and in general. lol. 99% chance I'll be going magicka, that's for sure, so, yeah, one thing is out of the way.

I have a leftover race change, may go from dunmer to breton, that 7% cost reduction is HUGE.

Anyway, here's hoping for more attention from the devs, gods know we could use it.