PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

remosito

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Sheepzy wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

We do not even have a completed quests log. The only way to at least see how many quests you have done in a zone? An achievement. That used to be granted for thorough exploring and questing in a zone, I like to add.

But surely, apart from bugged quests, the game has to track quest completion for each character?

yes it does.. is how I update one of my addons on pts. do skillpoint dungeon quest. then loop through new questids with GetCompletedQuestInfo(questId) function until I have the ids of the 2 dungeon quests..

(my addon tracks dungeon skillpoint quest completion plus stickerbook completion for the 3 daily undaunted) )

Zezin

remosito wrote: »

aaaa

Sheepzy wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

We do not even have a completed quests log. The only way to at least see how many quests you have done in a zone? An achievement. That used to be granted for thorough exploring and questing in a zone, I like to add.

But surely, apart from bugged quests, the game has to track quest completion for each character?

yes it does.. is how I update one of my addons on pts. do skillpoint dungeon quest. then loop through new questids with GetCompletedQuestInfo(questId) function until I have the ids of the 2 dungeon quests..

(my addon tracks dungeon skillpoint quest completion plus stickerbook completion for the 3 daily undaunted) )

That sounds awesome, what's the addon's name?

Tandor

nightstrike wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

I simply try to wrap my head around the statement that it would improve database performance and how it is not a form of individual character progress tracking.

Instead of storing up to 18 entire achievement records, one per character, with all of the meta data for each one (which isn't all that much, but I'm answering the question), they just add the character name to the meta data of the one stored achievement.

It's a wash in the grand scheme of things. Performance is a fake reason.

I wonder if they will store the string representation of the name, or an ID that will map to the current name if names are changed. And what name will be displayed when the character is deleted?

The name space will be blank, but the original date will still be listed.

Kelinmiriel

Zezin wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

aaaa

Sheepzy wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

We do not even have a completed quests log. The only way to at least see how many quests you have done in a zone? An achievement. That used to be granted for thorough exploring and questing in a zone, I like to add.

But surely, apart from bugged quests, the game has to track quest completion for each character?

yes it does.. is how I update one of my addons on pts. do skillpoint dungeon quest. then loop through new questids with GetCompletedQuestInfo(questId) function until I have the ids of the 2 dungeon quests..

(my addon tracks dungeon skillpoint quest completion plus stickerbook completion for the 3 daily undaunted) )

That sounds awesome, what's the addon's name?

Sorry for somewhat off-topic, but I was also interested in this, so I looked it up, and here it is. Also hadn't recognized @remosito name, but this is the author of the essential addon Display Leads (for those of us who do Antiquities). Thank you, Remosito!!

To get back to topic - for anyone who does Antiquities, and appreciates the "glowy chests" passive, so does it on multiple characters - if you think AWA will make it less "grindy" to get this lovely passive on your alts, think again.

It'll be worse now. One of the things that helped each character level up the skill line was the boost from achievements, which won't count any more, as those are account-wide.

remosito

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

aaaa

Sheepzy wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

We do not even have a completed quests log. The only way to at least see how many quests you have done in a zone? An achievement. That used to be granted for thorough exploring and questing in a zone, I like to add.

But surely, apart from bugged quests, the game has to track quest completion for each character?

yes it does.. is how I update one of my addons on pts. do skillpoint dungeon quest. then loop through new questids with GetCompletedQuestInfo(questId) function until I have the ids of the 2 dungeon quests..

(my addon tracks dungeon skillpoint quest completion plus stickerbook completion for the 3 daily undaunted) )

That sounds awesome, what's the addon's name?

Sorry for somewhat off-topic, but I was also interested in this, so I looked it up, and here it is. Also hadn't recognized @remosito name, but this is the author of the essential addon Display Leads (for those of us who do Antiquities). Thank you, Remosito!!

To get back to topic - for anyone who does Antiquities, and appreciates the "glowy chests" passive, so does it on multiple characters - if you think AWA will make it less "grindy" to get this lovely passive on your alts, think again.

It'll be worse now. One of the things that helped each character level up the skill line was the boost from achievements, which won't count any more, as those are account-wide.

thanks for the kind words :-)

and that's the addon indeed I was talking about.

Kesstryl

remosito wrote: »

aaaa

Sheepzy wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

We do not even have a completed quests log. The only way to at least see how many quests you have done in a zone? An achievement. That used to be granted for thorough exploring and questing in a zone, I like to add.

But surely, apart from bugged quests, the game has to track quest completion for each character?

yes it does.. is how I update one of my addons on pts. do skillpoint dungeon quest. then loop through new questids with GetCompletedQuestInfo(questId) function until I have the ids of the 2 dungeon quests..

(my addon tracks dungeon skillpoint quest completion plus stickerbook completion for the 3 daily undaunted) )

Maybe a quest tracker addon would help many of us who will lose character tracking. Too bad an addon can't be made to fix NPC reactions and the locked out or broken quests. If they fix those things, I could just utilize addons, but as of right now, NPC reactions to alt characters and locked out achievement based quests are non-negotiable things that must be addressed and fixed before I might even think about begrudgingly taking this loss for the health of the game.

ajkb78

tomfant wrote: »

If database performance is the justification, then get also rid of char-specific timers, like mount training, random dungeon and BG, etc and make all of this once-per-day without any stupid timer.

Come to think of it I'm sure account-wide mount training would save a server instruction or two and a few bytes of storage. Can we have that please?

ajkb78

Simple way to fix this, at least for the medium term and maybe forever:
1. Make titles account wide like other collectibles.

2. Make monster trophies account bound not character bound, so it's not annoying to get them on an alt who isn't grinding the achievement.

Done. That's it. That's all anyone really ever wanted. Leave everything else to do with achievements as per character.

kind_hero

Guys.. DEVS...

I read your "Q&A" which is more like a statement than a thread open to questions, and I can't really say how I feel because of the rules here.

But you are killing replayability, really... Someone has a fix on this move and won't budge regardless of how many people prove to you that what you are doing, and especially the way you are doing it, is wrong.

Let me put it from my point of view:

My main has done most of the achievements I care for (and am able to do with my playstyle).
I have two more chars, alt 2 and alt 3 with a lot of content still to be done. Last month I did the Cyrodiil dolmens for achievements, even though I had those completed on my main. It was satisfying to get each of those done.

Now, with this change, there will be very little motivation for me to do any content that I have done with my main in the past.

I am sure a lot of people will relate. Why create a new alt? He already has Tamriel Hero right from the starting cell. Your shared titles do not even have some minimal requirements, such as level or zone completion. It's a mess. Really.

You are talking about database and performance like it is something that you should save rather than expand, even though the game is at its peak and it is very successful. Instead of adding features for the achievement system, you are trimming it. There are other games which implemented this AwA right. But you are not doing that. What you are doing and the way you are doing it is almost the same as deleting alts from each account "to save space". The game will become larger and larger. What will you merge next? Characters?

nightstrike

CombatCoati wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

And here’s the worst part: What happens when Update 33 goes live and performance is just as bad, or worse? The game we’ve come to know and love for the past eight years irreparably gutted…. for nothing? Imagine how that will make those who decide to stick around feel.

From the Q&A:
"Second, as mentioned in the intro, this change will result long term maintainable database stability and performance. By reducing the amount of data we have to store, the database doesn’t have to work as hard so the time it takes to search, load and save data will be sped up, leading to a more consistent user experience as the years go by and more data is added to the database."

As for me, that does not sound like an immediate increase in performance is expected...

It's also completely fallacious. You don't fix a database issue by deleting data when that database is monotonically increasing in size. Delete a few records, and wait a day, and we will have a few more records added.

Any well designed database is not affected by its size. It's affected mostly by its indexing.

Do you think that Amazon limits the number of people who can sign up for Prime? It would be stupid to do so. Sorry folks, you can't join Amazon because our database hit its limit....

Performance is a fake justification that they are using to hide the real reason. We just don't know what the real reason is.

SirBedevere

Jaraal wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

KaGaOri wrote: »

If all zone content gets auto completed when update 33 goes live what's the point of playing anymore?

It doesn't, you can still do the quests on other characters. You just aren't able to get the achievements for doing the quests more than once, but they are still available to do and experience.

Nope, the quest givers consider you as having already completed the quest on the first character that got the achievement. The dialogue to start the quest is no longer available. And in some places, like Rimmen, you will see multiple NPCs in the same place.

The chaos when AWA in it’s current form goes live will be epic. And at that point, it will be too late to do anything about it.

Wait, are you saying all zone quests can only be done once? Or just specific ones? Because I think @KaGaOri was talking about things affecting all zones.

Here is just one example of how AWA is bugging quests:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7526904/#Comment_7526904

Okay, but the Bard's College thing seems like it was already fixed, no? And the other is just an epilogue? That seems pretty minor to me. It should certainly be fixed, as should whatever it is in Rimmen that's happening, but these seem like they should all be still tracked in some way if the devs need to fix them later, right? Aren't there quest completions that could be used instead of achievements, for instance?

The way you were talking before, saying "the dialogue to start the quest is no longer available" in reference to the "all zone content gets auto completed" topic really made it seem like this problem was more widespread than I'm seeing any evidence for.

SirBedevere

nightstrike wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

And here’s the worst part: What happens when Update 33 goes live and performance is just as bad, or worse? The game we’ve come to know and love for the past eight years irreparably gutted…. for nothing? Imagine how that will make those who decide to stick around feel.

From the Q&A:
"Second, as mentioned in the intro, this change will result long term maintainable database stability and performance. By reducing the amount of data we have to store, the database doesn’t have to work as hard so the time it takes to search, load and save data will be sped up, leading to a more consistent user experience as the years go by and more data is added to the database."

As for me, that does not sound like an immediate increase in performance is expected...

It's also completely fallacious. You don't fix a database issue by deleting data when that database is monotonically increasing in size. Delete a few records, and wait a day, and we will have a few more records added.

Any well designed database is not affected by its size. It's affected mostly by its indexing.

Do you think that Amazon limits the number of people who can sign up for Prime? It would be stupid to do so. Sorry folks, you can't join Amazon because our database hit its limit....

Performance is a fake justification that they are using to hide the real reason. We just don't know what the real reason is.

Well, looking back a couple pages, I saw that achievements were one of the things that broke the servers when Antiquities was released. They said they fixed it, but maybe that fix only went so far? Maybe now they are nearing some other performance threshold they are worried about crossing with the new card game being released?

Mr. Firor himself said just this year that their architecture isn't really modern. If I had to guess, this is probably a stopgap measure to make sure their new card game doesn't break their old database before they get the chance to replace it with something better.

_Zathras_

nightstrike wrote: »

Performance is a fake justification that they are using to hide the real reason. We just don't know what the real reason is.

Yup. And that is why they have been heavily censoring threads with outright deletions of commentary, or full locks.

They aren't here for discussion. They never were. The Q&A is just an statement of action.

At any rate, they can't censor social media. So spread awareness to people and sites who will publicly ask the questions they won't be able to ignore.

Saieden

nightstrike wrote: »

CombatCoati wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

And here’s the worst part: What happens when Update 33 goes live and performance is just as bad, or worse? The game we’ve come to know and love for the past eight years irreparably gutted…. for nothing? Imagine how that will make those who decide to stick around feel.

From the Q&A:
"Second, as mentioned in the intro, this change will result long term maintainable database stability and performance. By reducing the amount of data we have to store, the database doesn’t have to work as hard so the time it takes to search, load and save data will be sped up, leading to a more consistent user experience as the years go by and more data is added to the database."

As for me, that does not sound like an immediate increase in performance is expected...

It's also completely fallacious. You don't fix a database issue by deleting data when that database is monotonically increasing in size. Delete a few records, and wait a day, and we will have a few more records added.

Any well designed database is not affected by its size. It's affected mostly by its indexing.

Do you think that Amazon limits the number of people who can sign up for Prime? It would be stupid to do so. Sorry folks, you can't join Amazon because our database hit its limit....

Performance is a fake justification that they are using to hide the real reason. We just don't know what the real reason is.

"We need to verify your National ID with your account because multiple avenues for you to pay us is too hard on our database"
- No Company Ever

Kesstryl

If this is to make room for card game achievements, a card game none of us asked for, I'd rather keep my character data than have new achievements for something I probably won't use. Character data is personal, it's what connects you with your character. I know at this point I can't change anything by posting feedback. I'm going in on PTS on a new char when it comes back to NA to screencap and maybe video cap how many things are exactly broken (in the little bit of time I have outside work) and posting in the bug thread in the hopes that something will be done to salvage what little joy I get out of this game before I have to quit until or IF the outstanding bugs get fixed. After that, it's a break from the game until, or IF they fix how the world interacts with my individual characters. No word about this problem in the Q&A, or even the fact that this doesn't seem like it crossed their minds to even begin addressing in the code during internal testing, makes me fear NPC interactions and locked out achievement quests are working as intended, and alts don't matter anymore. If that's the case, my break will be a permanent one.


edited for clarification

Ugh_Tech

SirBedevere wrote: »

Well, looking back a couple pages, I saw that achievements were one of the things that broke the servers when Antiquities was released. They said they fixed it, but maybe that fix only went so far? Maybe now they are nearing some other performance threshold they are worried about crossing with the new card game being released?

If that was the reason, why not cancel that card-game noone was asking for instead of killing character-based achievements and - sorry but I really have no other fitting word for that - p*****g veteran players off and make them turn their backs after 8 or even 9 years supporting the game with their heart and soul???

Zezin

I'd like to request that character specific achievements not reward any points for completion, that way we can know overall completion of the game through the amount of points we have.

SirBedevere

Ugh_Tech wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Well, looking back a couple pages, I saw that achievements were one of the things that broke the servers when Antiquities was released. They said they fixed it, but maybe that fix only went so far? Maybe now they are nearing some other performance threshold they are worried about crossing with the new card game being released?

If that was the reason, why not cancel that card-game noone was asking for instead of killing character-based achievements and - sorry but I really have no other fitting word for that - p*****g veteran players off and make them turn their backs after 8 or even 9 years supporting the game with their heart and soul???

Because people have already bought the chapter? I don't know.

SilverBride

Nemezijus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

Q: Are there plans to track individual character progression or identifying which character completed an achievement first?

A: Completed achievements will display the name of the character that first completed the achievement, as well as the date it was first completed. The initial account achievement merging process takes this into account and will auto-update the achievement to display the earliest completion date and character. Tracking individual character progression nullifies the database improvements that Account Wide Achievements bring and isn’t something we can implement without losing those benefits.

Why would it matter to show the character that completed a certain achievement first with the date added, since it are now account wide achievements? And would that still not be a form of individual character progression and thus reduce database improvements?

It is not individual character progression if the individual character didn't complete the achievement. It is a hand me down from a different character.

Character X killed 300 lamias
Character Y killed 100 lamias

slayer achievement completed on mm/dd/yyyy by Character Y

How is this not individual character progress data used to gain an accountwide achievement? And further more, how is this improving database performance?

Character X completed the quest, all the bosses and the group event for PubIic Dungeon A. Character Y wants to also enjoy Public Dungeon A but the bosses are all marked as complete because Character X already did them. This destroys the player's chance to enjoy this content on this individual character.

But Character Y can still go to Public Dungeon A and kill all the bosses, right? The group event will still give 1 skill point to the character Y if I understand it correctly.
The map markers should be fixed up though, the tracking of map completion is quite important. I hope they will work on that.

Yes Character Y can still complete Public Dungeon A but there will be no visual cues to know which bosses had been done yet. Maybe that isn't a problem for some but I can't remember all of that, especially in dungeons that wind around a lot and have multiple areas with loading screens. Trying to complete content this way is like going in blindfolded.

ealdwin

SilverBride wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

Q: Are there plans to track individual character progression or identifying which character completed an achievement first?

A: Completed achievements will display the name of the character that first completed the achievement, as well as the date it was first completed. The initial account achievement merging process takes this into account and will auto-update the achievement to display the earliest completion date and character. Tracking individual character progression nullifies the database improvements that Account Wide Achievements bring and isn’t something we can implement without losing those benefits.

Why would it matter to show the character that completed a certain achievement first with the date added, since it are now account wide achievements? And would that still not be a form of individual character progression and thus reduce database improvements?

It is not individual character progression if the individual character didn't complete the achievement. It is a hand me down from a different character.

Character X killed 300 lamias
Character Y killed 100 lamias

slayer achievement completed on mm/dd/yyyy by Character Y

How is this not individual character progress data used to gain an accountwide achievement? And further more, how is this improving database performance?

Character X completed the quest, all the bosses and the group event for PubIic Dungeon A. Character Y wants to also enjoy Public Dungeon A but the bosses are all marked as complete because Character X already did them. This destroys the player's chance to enjoy this content on this individual character.

But Character Y can still go to Public Dungeon A and kill all the bosses, right? The group event will still give 1 skill point to the character Y if I understand it correctly.
The map markers should be fixed up though, the tracking of map completion is quite important. I hope they will work on that.

Yes Character Y can still complete Public Dungeon A but there will be no visual cues to know which bosses had been done yet. Maybe that isn't a problem for some but I can't remember all of that, especially in dungeons that wind around a lot and have multiple areas with loading screens. Trying to complete content this way is like going in blindfolded.

A few weeks ago I killed a boss in a base game public dungeon on my main that I had never killed before. Wasn't even aware I hadn't killed that boss. Now, currently on live, I would have noticed if I checked achievements and would be able to go back and finish that last boss.

Under the current implementation if I missed a boss on one of my alts I would only be able to know if I happened to go back to that public dungeon and kill that boss randomly. I could have an alt that never actually finishes a public dungeon because there's no way of knowing which bosses they killed and didn't kill.

The problem is that right now Achievements are essentially a character journal, a way of tracking what a character has done and has yet to do. Outright removing that in favor of Exclusively-Account-Wide-Achievements erases that tracking. It's a flawed implementation.

Ugh_Tech

SirBedevere wrote: »

Ugh_Tech wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Well, looking back a couple pages, I saw that achievements were one of the things that broke the servers when Antiquities was released. They said they fixed it, but maybe that fix only went so far? Maybe now they are nearing some other performance threshold they are worried about crossing with the new card game being released?

If that was the reason, why not cancel that card-game noone was asking for instead of killing character-based achievements and - sorry but I really have no other fitting word for that - p*****g veteran players off and make them turn their backs after 8 or even 9 years supporting the game with their heart and soul???

Because people have already bought the chapter? I don't know.

I also did - but not for the card game. In fact I don't like (virtual) card games at all. If that chapter would have only contained the card-game, I wouldn't buy it even for 1$/€/£/whatever.

McTaterskins

ealdwin wrote: »

The problem is that right now Achievements are essentially a character journal, a way of tracking what a character has done and has yet to do. Outright removing that in favor of Exclusively-Account-Wide-Achievements erases that tracking. It's a flawed implementation.

Absolutely hate it and am very unhappy about it.

Game basically loses its replay ability. I'll have a bunch of characters now that I'll have no motivation to touch. Which means my time will be freed up to go play other games I guess? It must be a technical necessity because it makes zero sense monetarily.

Think of all the crown store transactions associated with achievements? Are these going to be account wide? Not account wide? They seem to dodge this during Q&A's.

SirBedevere

ealdwin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

Q: Are there plans to track individual character progression or identifying which character completed an achievement first?

A: Completed achievements will display the name of the character that first completed the achievement, as well as the date it was first completed. The initial account achievement merging process takes this into account and will auto-update the achievement to display the earliest completion date and character. Tracking individual character progression nullifies the database improvements that Account Wide Achievements bring and isn’t something we can implement without losing those benefits.

Why would it matter to show the character that completed a certain achievement first with the date added, since it are now account wide achievements? And would that still not be a form of individual character progression and thus reduce database improvements?

It is not individual character progression if the individual character didn't complete the achievement. It is a hand me down from a different character.

Character X killed 300 lamias
Character Y killed 100 lamias

slayer achievement completed on mm/dd/yyyy by Character Y

How is this not individual character progress data used to gain an accountwide achievement? And further more, how is this improving database performance?

Character X completed the quest, all the bosses and the group event for PubIic Dungeon A. Character Y wants to also enjoy Public Dungeon A but the bosses are all marked as complete because Character X already did them. This destroys the player's chance to enjoy this content on this individual character.

But Character Y can still go to Public Dungeon A and kill all the bosses, right? The group event will still give 1 skill point to the character Y if I understand it correctly.
The map markers should be fixed up though, the tracking of map completion is quite important. I hope they will work on that.

Yes Character Y can still complete Public Dungeon A but there will be no visual cues to know which bosses had been done yet. Maybe that isn't a problem for some but I can't remember all of that, especially in dungeons that wind around a lot and have multiple areas with loading screens. Trying to complete content this way is like going in blindfolded.

A few weeks ago I killed a boss in a base game public dungeon on my main that I had never killed before. Wasn't even aware I hadn't killed that boss. Now, currently on live, I would have noticed if I checked achievements and would be able to go back and finish that last boss.

Under the current implementation if I missed a boss on one of my alts I would only be able to know if I happened to go back to that public dungeon and kill that boss randomly. I could have an alt that never actually finishes a public dungeon because there's no way of knowing which bosses they killed and didn't kill.

The problem is that right now Achievements are essentially a character journal, a way of tracking what a character has done and has yet to do. Outright removing that in favor of Exclusively-Account-Wide-Achievements erases that tracking. It's a flawed implementation.

Oh, well that's not good. Public dungeons are one of my favorite things in the whole game, at least when I'm soloing stuff. Those and world bosses. I'll be sad if I can't track those anymore.

nightstrike

SirBedevere wrote: »

Oh, well that's not good. Public dungeons are one of my favorite things in the whole game, at least when I'm soloing stuff. Those and world bosses. I'll be sad if I can't track those anymore.

You can't track those anymore.

KMarble

SirBedevere wrote: »

Wait, are you saying all zone quests can only be done once? Or just specific ones? Because I think @KaGaOri was talking about things affecting all zones.

No. That isn't what is going to happen. As far as I know most quests should be available for all the characters that haven't done them yet.

While testing there were many quests found to be bugged, but none of us here can tell how many in total*. That is the reason I (can't speak for others) have asked for AWA to be delayed - because we don't know how many more quests are bugged. It might take a few (? several?) months on live for all the bugs to be found. As for when they'll be fixed...

On top of that there is the fact that in 3 PTS cycles so far, only 2 of the bugs related to AWA were "fixed" and there was no mention of the others (not even to acknowledge that they know those other bugs exist).

*Due to the nature of PTS, each one of us only have a week to test before the server is wiped clean and copied again. There are hundreds of quests in the game and the people testing have to have a copied character who have done all the quests so they can check how the quest goes (or doesn't) on alts.

SirBedevere

nightstrike wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Oh, well that's not good. Public dungeons are one of my favorite things in the whole game, at least when I'm soloing stuff. Those and world bosses. I'll be sad if I can't track those anymore.

You can't track those anymore.

If that's true, then it seems pretty messed up to me. I don't really care about achievements themselves, but not being able to tell if I've killed a boss? Might as well just camp one boss and kill it over and over if there's nothing that progresses as a result!

KMarble

Nemezijus wrote: »

But Character Y can still go to Public Dungeon A and kill all the bosses, right? The group event will still give 1 skill point to the character Y if I understand it correctly.
The map markers should be fixed up though, the tracking of map completion is quite important. I hope they will work on that.

Correct. But unlike the first character on your account, character Y might need to stick around and wait for the boss to spawn (I think it's a 5 minutes cool down).

You see, when first entering a delve or PD, the boss is "waiting" for you. After the first time, though, you'll have to wait. Up until now this was done by character, but it'll be tracked by account after the update.

There will be no incentive to kill those bosses once the account has the achievement. You know those leads that drops from a boss in a delve/PD, and you thought it would be a good idea to go in there with a character that hasn't completed the place so you didn't have to wait for the boss to respawn? Well...now you do.

There are also a number of event quests that require we go into a delve/PD and kill a boss. People already complain that they have to wait because there are too many players in there at any given time. After the update you won't be able to alleviate that by using a char who hasn't gone in there yet.

StorybookTerror

The_Saint wrote: »

Any chance you can redesign the title drop down menu on the characters?
With many titles its not really clear

In the meantime, if you're on PC, I highly recommend checking out the "Sorted Titles - Alphabetically Sorted Title Dropdown" add-on. Just having them in alphabetical order makes it far less unwieldy. (It would be great if the base game sorted things!)

Jaraal

SirBedevere wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

KaGaOri wrote: »

If all zone content gets auto completed when update 33 goes live what's the point of playing anymore?

It doesn't, you can still do the quests on other characters. You just aren't able to get the achievements for doing the quests more than once, but they are still available to do and experience.

Nope, the quest givers consider you as having already completed the quest on the first character that got the achievement. The dialogue to start the quest is no longer available. And in some places, like Rimmen, you will see multiple NPCs in the same place.

The chaos when AWA in it’s current form goes live will be epic. And at that point, it will be too late to do anything about it.

Wait, are you saying all zone quests can only be done once? Or just specific ones? Because I think @KaGaOri was talking about things affecting all zones.

Here is just one example of how AWA is bugging quests:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7526904/#Comment_7526904

Okay, but the Bard's College thing seems like it was already fixed, no? And the other is just an epilogue? That seems pretty minor to me. It should certainly be fixed, as should whatever it is in Rimmen that's happening, but these seem like they should all be still tracked in some way if the devs need to fix them later, right? Aren't there quest completions that could be used instead of achievements, for instance?

The way you were talking before, saying "the dialogue to start the quest is no longer available" in reference to the "all zone content gets auto completed" topic really made it seem like this problem was more widespread than I'm seeing any evidence for.

Have you ever been to the test server? You could play all day and potentially never run into another player. If you think all of the hundreds of quests in the game will have been tested for potential problems related to this rather large change, you'd be wrong.

They stated that museum type quests were fixed. As for the rest..... we will find out in a few weeks.

CombatCoati

SirBedevere wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

Oh, well that's not good. Public dungeons are one of my favorite things in the whole game, at least when I'm soloing stuff. Those and world bosses. I'll be sad if I can't track those anymore.

You can't track those anymore.

If that's true, then it seems pretty messed up to me. I don't really care about achievements themselves, but not being able to tell if I've killed a boss? Might as well just camp one boss and kill it over and over if there's nothing that progresses as a result!

Screenshot from PTS:



As you can see, this character has cleared all delves, dolmens and world bosses in Deshaan. Being just a mule character, she has never ever set foot into that zone.

Edit to add: She of course also has the Forgotten Crypts Conqueror achievement, with all the bosses marked as killed. The reason why the Crypts are shown as not complete on the map is because this is tied to completing the quest and not to an achievement.