PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

SerafinaWaterstar

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

‘A few addons & no one will ever remember…’

Hi. Console player here. So, not an option.

And of those of us who dislike this change, very few have said to stop it completely. We have asked for options.

And that's exactly why I've added "official addition". A lot of addons became in-game additions in the past years.

Many might not have asked for the reverse and only optionality, but the backlash and the words people are saying just because some can't remember what they did or did not on a character (people who really care about their characters won't forget which path their characters took imo) and the others are too concerned about lvl 10 GOs could end up in delay of this function first and if there will be no option to make everyone happy - cancellation.

People were raging about race changes, armour passives rework too when this was the case and nobody died when changes hit the live server.
And those were more serious than achievements.

No. This is far more serious than the ones you mention as it is a fundamental change to the game & how it is played. After 8 years.

I have read through the threads, and the vast majority of people who do not want this have not been rude, but have put forth reasoned arguments as to how this will be detrimental to their playing.

You say ‘people who really care about their characters won’t forget which path their character took’ - that is incredibly dismissive and a tad patronising - I play all my 18 characters. I frequently do forget what I’ve done on each as it’s rather a large amount of information & I am not Mr Memory.

So I, and many others, use the Achievements to measure progress. To do things in the game that we find fun.

I appreciate some don’t like the ‘grind’ of doing certain things again - but some of us do, and this change removes whole quest lines & activities from being done again (see post re: Summerset relics). Its not that you can still do the quests without the achievement popping, it looks like the quests aren’t even available to do!

I would prefer this way put on hold until a decent well-considered compromise was made. Otherwise this will ruin the game for many.

LtSnowballin

Jaraal wrote: »

Yes, and let those who opt out and prefer having character specific achievements have their own perks. Like, let our titles reflect how many times we got the achievement on a different toon. "6 Time Emperor," "16 Time Master Fisher," "10 Time Flawless Conquerer," etc. It would give us reason to keep grinding... to keep updating our titles... while those who don't care and just want to do in-game things once can have their shared one time titles.

Completely fair point! Which is where I think the other option I added "Having it be a check mark system" could really come into play too! Combine that with how many times it's been completed so people who do want to show off their total completions can do that too! Or just overall let when someone equips the title to who doesn't have the account-wide opt-in show how many times they've done it across their toons. There's 100% ways to appeal to both sides here!

zsitvaij

I hate this, for one reason: leveling Antiquities was already hell on alts when you've used up the free purple lead per zone, but at least the achievements gave significant points on progress. Just checked, and no progress was awarded to an alt with the granted achievements on PTS.

RaddlemanNumber7

I'm going to test Litany of Blood and Kari's Hit List to see if these are in any way repeatable now, but I'm starting from a blank sheet on two characters. So, if anyone else can chime in that would be great.

Mephit

zsitvaij wrote: »

I hate this, for one reason: leveling Antiquities was already hell on alts when you've used up the free purple lead per zone, but at least the achievements gave significant points on progress. Just checked, and no progress was awarded to an alt with the granted achievements on PTS.

I really don't understand the inconsistency between "account level achievements" but "character level skill grinds". For those that want account level achievements "cos of mindless grinding on other toons / it's not the toon I enjoy right now", then surely it is worse to have to grind skills like Scrying on a new favourite toon?

I'd have thought this was all the same problem (which doesn't exist for me) and solution?

Just trying to understand

TiaFrye

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

‘A few addons & no one will ever remember…’

Hi. Console player here. So, not an option.

And of those of us who dislike this change, very few have said to stop it completely. We have asked for options.

And that's exactly why I've added "official addition". A lot of addons became in-game additions in the past years.

Many might not have asked for the reverse and only optionality, but the backlash and the words people are saying just because some can't remember what they did or did not on a character (people who really care about their characters won't forget which path their characters took imo) and the others are too concerned about lvl 10 GOs could end up in delay of this function first and if there will be no option to make everyone happy - cancellation.

People were raging about race changes, armour passives rework too when this was the case and nobody died when changes hit the live server.
And those were more serious than achievements.

No. This is far more serious than the ones you mention as it is a fundamental change to the game & how it is played. After 8 years.

I have read through the threads, and the vast majority of people who do not want this have not been rude, but have put forth reasoned arguments as to how this will be detrimental to their playing.

You say ‘people who really care about their characters won’t forget which path their character took’ - that is incredibly dismissive and a tad patronising - I play all my 18 characters. I frequently do forget what I’ve done on each as it’s rather a large amount of information & I am not Mr Memory.

So I, and many others, use the Achievements to measure progress. To do things in the game that we find fun.

I appreciate some don’t like the ‘grind’ of doing certain things again - but some of us do, and this change removes whole quest lines & activities from being done again (see post re: Summerset relics). Its not that you can still do the quests without the achievement popping, it looks like the quests aren’t even available to do!

I would prefer this way put on hold until a decent well-considered compromise was made. Otherwise this will ruin the game for many.

I am a long-time player since games' Beta, I have maxed character slots. I have separate crafters for furnriture and armor because I feel like it. I have characters that did one quest line but will never do the other one which doesn't fit them. And yeah, I do remember which did what. My friends who have non-protagonist alts do remember. I'm afraid that we just have a different view on that kind of thing. You can play and don't be invested into the character on the same lvl as some people, for us remembering about this stuff comes naturally. So I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I simply don't understand.

Optionality is the only option here I guess. And it likely won't be in this update.

tmbrinks

TiaFrye wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

‘A few addons & no one will ever remember…’

Hi. Console player here. So, not an option.

And of those of us who dislike this change, very few have said to stop it completely. We have asked for options.

And that's exactly why I've added "official addition". A lot of addons became in-game additions in the past years.

Many might not have asked for the reverse and only optionality, but the backlash and the words people are saying just because some can't remember what they did or did not on a character (people who really care about their characters won't forget which path their characters took imo) and the others are too concerned about lvl 10 GOs could end up in delay of this function first and if there will be no option to make everyone happy - cancellation.

People were raging about race changes, armour passives rework too when this was the case and nobody died when changes hit the live server.
And those were more serious than achievements.

No. This is far more serious than the ones you mention as it is a fundamental change to the game & how it is played. After 8 years.

I have read through the threads, and the vast majority of people who do not want this have not been rude, but have put forth reasoned arguments as to how this will be detrimental to their playing.

You say ‘people who really care about their characters won’t forget which path their character took’ - that is incredibly dismissive and a tad patronising - I play all my 18 characters. I frequently do forget what I’ve done on each as it’s rather a large amount of information & I am not Mr Memory.

So I, and many others, use the Achievements to measure progress. To do things in the game that we find fun.

I appreciate some don’t like the ‘grind’ of doing certain things again - but some of us do, and this change removes whole quest lines & activities from being done again (see post re: Summerset relics). Its not that you can still do the quests without the achievement popping, it looks like the quests aren’t even available to do!

I would prefer this way put on hold until a decent well-considered compromise was made. Otherwise this will ruin the game for many.

I am a long-time player since games' Beta, I have maxed character slots. I have separate crafters for furnriture and armor because I feel like it. I have characters that did one quest line but will never do the other one which doesn't fit them. And yeah, I do remember which did what. My friends who have non-protagonist alts do remember. I'm afraid that we just have a different view on that kind of thing. You can play and don't be invested into the character on the same lvl as some people, for us remembering about this stuff comes naturally. So I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I simply don't understand.

Optionality is the only option here I guess. And it likely won't be in this update.

The problem is, if they go through with this and remove the individuality of our characters, there will be no way of getting it back later. They will have destroyed the database that has the character-specific data.

LalMirchi

tmbrinks wrote: »

Logged onto PTS. My main first. All achievements that I had done were on there and unlocked (in my quick glance)

Logged onto one of my alts. They had almost all of the same achievements (minus a few motifs). I had lost all of the progress on my questing on that character. I had lost all progress of dailies on that character. I had lost all progress of the progression in trials from my raid group on that character. No hyperbole, I got sick to my stomach and had to close the PTS.

This change is devastating Completely changes the game for me, and with my sub up in 2 weeks, this may be the time, despite how much I've loved this game

Very sad to hear about this. Please make this "feature" optional, there is still time before the changes go live.

SerafinaWaterstar

TiaFrye wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

‘A few addons & no one will ever remember…’

Hi. Console player here. So, not an option.

And of those of us who dislike this change, very few have said to stop it completely. We have asked for options.

And that's exactly why I've added "official addition". A lot of addons became in-game additions in the past years.

Many might not have asked for the reverse and only optionality, but the backlash and the words people are saying just because some can't remember what they did or did not on a character (people who really care about their characters won't forget which path their characters took imo) and the others are too concerned about lvl 10 GOs could end up in delay of this function first and if there will be no option to make everyone happy - cancellation.

People were raging about race changes, armour passives rework too when this was the case and nobody died when changes hit the live server.
And those were more serious than achievements.

No. This is far more serious than the ones you mention as it is a fundamental change to the game & how it is played. After 8 years.

I have read through the threads, and the vast majority of people who do not want this have not been rude, but have put forth reasoned arguments as to how this will be detrimental to their playing.

You say ‘people who really care about their characters won’t forget which path their character took’ - that is incredibly dismissive and a tad patronising - I play all my 18 characters. I frequently do forget what I’ve done on each as it’s rather a large amount of information & I am not Mr Memory.

So I, and many others, use the Achievements to measure progress. To do things in the game that we find fun.

I appreciate some don’t like the ‘grind’ of doing certain things again - but some of us do, and this change removes whole quest lines & activities from being done again (see post re: Summerset relics). Its not that you can still do the quests without the achievement popping, it looks like the quests aren’t even available to do!

I would prefer this way put on hold until a decent well-considered compromise was made. Otherwise this will ruin the game for many.

I am a long-time player since games' Beta, I have maxed character slots. I have separate crafters for furnriture and armor because I feel like it. I have characters that did one quest line but will never do the other one which doesn't fit them. And yeah, I do remember which did what. My friends who have non-protagonist alts do remember. I'm afraid that we just have a different view on that kind of thing. You can play and don't be invested into the character on the same lvl as some people, for us remembering about this stuff comes naturally. So I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I simply don't understand.

Optionality is the only option here I guess. And it likely won't be in this update.

Again, you suggest I am not ‘invested’ in my characters and therefore somehow, what, less serious about the game?

Are you honestly telling me that you can remember whether each of your 18 characters have done specific things in the game? Without looking? Really? So if I asked whether one had done Cold Potato you would know?

If that’s the case, then fair play to you, and I am impressed at your memory skills.

Not all of us are so blessed, and relied on the achievement list to help. And would like to keep doing that.

Oliviander

nbksaske wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Please make this optional.

There is plenty of feedback on the General Discussion forum (including the official feedback thread) explaining why this change is so game-breaking for many players, while being welcomed by others.

Game breaking is a bit of a stretch.

No its not !

There wasn't any gamebreaking change since the beginnig of ESO - until today.

But accountwide achievements is exactly that for me GAMEBREAKING and wehen I read the comments
it is the same for many other players too !

tmbrinks

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Yuualun

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

This.
I think we can all agree that the solution as it is now is simply not thought to the end. There are some really heavy bugs and we either need an Option to opt out or better: Fix it in a way it works for everyone.

I think no one here is really against the idea of Global achievements, we are just against the way it is implemented right now.

Nemezijus

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Exactly! This is probably the only solution that would make most people satisfied.

However, I can imagine that from developer's (whoever is responsible for the achievement system, I feel for you) point of view this might not be so trivial to maintain sync between multiple databases and consider all the relevant event progressions, access etc.. I can imagine that they have been working on this database merge for a while now and 'just adding' a global achievement tab is not so simple. So unless they halt the launch of this system and decide to allocate resources to work on this code again, big chances are that they will just fix the current issues reported in the PTS and just launch it in March.

Oliviander

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Absolutely

and the best solution for titles would actually be, as previously suggested, an indicator on how many toons
that title has been earned. (As I work against: "Grand Master Crafter 18" - And I would really like to show off that one )

TiaFrye

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

‘A few addons & no one will ever remember…’

Hi. Console player here. So, not an option.

And of those of us who dislike this change, very few have said to stop it completely. We have asked for options.

And that's exactly why I've added "official addition". A lot of addons became in-game additions in the past years.

Many might not have asked for the reverse and only optionality, but the backlash and the words people are saying just because some can't remember what they did or did not on a character (people who really care about their characters won't forget which path their characters took imo) and the others are too concerned about lvl 10 GOs could end up in delay of this function first and if there will be no option to make everyone happy - cancellation.

People were raging about race changes, armour passives rework too when this was the case and nobody died when changes hit the live server.
And those were more serious than achievements.

No. This is far more serious than the ones you mention as it is a fundamental change to the game & how it is played. After 8 years.

I have read through the threads, and the vast majority of people who do not want this have not been rude, but have put forth reasoned arguments as to how this will be detrimental to their playing.

You say ‘people who really care about their characters won’t forget which path their character took’ - that is incredibly dismissive and a tad patronising - I play all my 18 characters. I frequently do forget what I’ve done on each as it’s rather a large amount of information & I am not Mr Memory.

So I, and many others, use the Achievements to measure progress. To do things in the game that we find fun.

I appreciate some don’t like the ‘grind’ of doing certain things again - but some of us do, and this change removes whole quest lines & activities from being done again (see post re: Summerset relics). Its not that you can still do the quests without the achievement popping, it looks like the quests aren’t even available to do!

I would prefer this way put on hold until a decent well-considered compromise was made. Otherwise this will ruin the game for many.

I am a long-time player since games' Beta, I have maxed character slots. I have separate crafters for furnriture and armor because I feel like it. I have characters that did one quest line but will never do the other one which doesn't fit them. And yeah, I do remember which did what. My friends who have non-protagonist alts do remember. I'm afraid that we just have a different view on that kind of thing. You can play and don't be invested into the character on the same lvl as some people, for us remembering about this stuff comes naturally. So I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I simply don't understand.

Optionality is the only option here I guess. And it likely won't be in this update.

Again, you suggest I am not ‘invested’ in my characters and therefore somehow, what, less serious about the game?

Are you honestly telling me that you can remember whether each of your 18 characters have done specific things in the game? Without looking? Really? So if I asked whether one had done Cold Potato you would know?

If that’s the case, then fair play to you, and I am impressed at your memory skills.

Not all of us are so blessed, and relied on the achievement list to help. And would like to keep doing that.

I suggested that we're being invested in entirely different directions, and I unfortunately might not understand your direction. There's also entirely different approach to remembering stories and - in this case you've mentioned - random dungeon achievements.

MattVH

I really dislike the (singular) 'earned by:' note. Imo it should just not mention a certain character at all, if there's a risk i might end up with a 'earned by X character' that only happened to get the last 1 kill on a 499/500 progression.

Not to mention, we can change our character names. I can foresee problems.

TelvanniWizard

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

I don´t want account-wide titles (don´t care), and I certainly don´t want a way to track wich character did a specific achievement. I want all my characters to contribute to the unique, total achievement count, so i can freely play with whatever character I feel like without losing total achievement count. This is what I specifically want.

SerafinaWaterstar

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

I don´t want account-wide titles (don´t care), and I certainly don´t want a way to track wich character did a specific achievement. I want all my characters to contribute to the unique, total achievement count, so i can freely play with whatever character I feel like without losing total achievement count. This is what I specifically want.

So you can’t consider a compromise, for all those who play differently to you?

Elsonso

TiaFrye wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This is no longer a RPG.

Really? Because in single player TES titles, on Steam for example you get exactly this - one time unlock from the first character who did it. Would you argue that's still RPG?

It is an interesting question, and one that showcases a design flaw in ESO that goes back to the very start of the game. That it took them 8 years to finally fix is regrettable, as many players came to depend on it.

The platform achievements and trophies are things that happen in the game, but are outside of the game. Since most games are not RPGs, it makes sense to just store these per game, per account, and be done with it. People playing most games would expect a cumulative achievement system that allows them to try and try again, building on previous plays. This is perfectly fine, even for an RPG, if the player just wants to make sure they did everything in the game.

In an RPG, this sort of achievement would be seen at the account level, and would never be associated with the character. Each character is independent of the achievements of the characters that came before. They don't typically pick up where the previous character left off. If they have any benefit from previous characters, it should be the choice of the player, not the game.

That is where ZOS went wrong in their initial game design for achievements. They should have never associated these achievements with the characters, and they should have only awarded points, not items or perks. This would make them like the platform achievements, just associated with the ESO account and viewable in the game. They would have no bearing on what happens in the game. They would just be achievements that were earned by the player.

Instead, what ZOS did was tie all of the achievements to the character, and started to hand out in-game rewards for achieving them. This made those achievements part of the character role playing experience, and also set the stage for the battle that rages today over account vs character achievements. There should have _never_ been account achievements tied to the character, and account achievements should have _never_ awarded character oriented in game rewards.

So, the answer to your question is that ZOS made these achievements part of their RPG. If it is removed, it is removing RPG elements of the original game. It may have been the wrong game design decision, and we may all be suffering for it now, but they did it. If they want to untangle this mess, I expect them to do it in a manner that shows some respect for the fact that this has been part of the game for 8 years. It is their mess. It is not like players have been abusing something and ZOS is just fixing it.

I want to emphasize that ZOS has confused the separation between character and account, and has done so for quite some time. The game design is all over the place, with characters progressing to a point, then the account progresses from there. Some items we get are even character-bound while other items we get are account wide upon consumption. Confused.

etchedpixels

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

So now I can't tell what dungeons and group events or questlines I need to go get the skill points from on a given character. This is really really screwed up and broken.

Account wide achievements are a great idea but implementing them by deleting all the existing ones and mashing stuff up so all the addons break and you can't actually see important things you need to know like dungeon progress per character is actually dumber than dark convergence.

Still easy to do
Group event arent included
As for questline and dungeon, as long as its not whitevon the map, the quest isnt finished

I'd missed that it kept group events separate still (and that's *not* mentioned on the ZoS list) so that helps a bit but I can't see which dungeons I've completed on vet vet/hm normal any more and which I need to do to complete the set on a given toon. I can't at a glance see if I've done say Clockwork City on a given toon at this point either, or whether I still need to collect a precursor on it. I collect precursors so it's important to me ;-)

I love the idea of an overall achievement. It's brilliant, but I also happen to want to the per character information, and right now this feels more like someone said "Hey if we do this we can save 20 million times ten or more characters worth of achievement data in our database" than thought it out.

etchedpixels

Elsonso wrote: »

The platform achievements and trophies are things that happen in the game, but are outside of the game. Since most games are not RPGs, it makes sense to just store these per game, per account, and be done with it. People playing most games would expect a cumulative achievement system that allows them to try and try again, building on previous plays. This is perfectly fine, even for an RPG, if the player just wants to make sure they did everything in the game.

Actually a lot of RPG style games pointedly do not have that behaviour in a way that affects in game because it's very jarring. Others (SWTOR for example) have actually handled it very cleverly with character achievements feeding into a more general legacy.

That is where ZOS went wrong in their initial game design for achievements. They should have never associated these achievements with the characters, and they should have only awarded points, not items or perks. This would make them like the platform achievements, just associated with the ESO account and viewable in the game. They would have no bearing on what happens in the game. They would just be achievements that were earned by the player.

Multiple toons was clearly a last minute nail on to the game. You only have to look at the mail system to see how you get nonsense when one toon collects mail sent to another and the names are wrong to see that it was not in the original design.

The problem is there are at least three different things that "achievements" represents, and they matter differently to different players.

Firstly an achievement is a classic game "Player cleared level 14" style thing where it's "Dude I rock" and a badge on the Steam achievement wall showing your friends you rock. That needs per account data

Secondly it's an achievement that is tied to a character. To a more RPG focussed player "Dave the Barbarian saved Fargrave". That needs per character data.

Thirdly it's a method by which players can check what they have not completed. What that needs to some extent depends upon the player and their preferences about how they play the game.

Turning it entirely per account breaks a lot of existing stuff and ways of playing. Leaving it per character doesn't fix the problems with that - hence you need both.

There should have _never_ been account achievements tied to the character, and account achievements should have _never_ awarded character oriented in game rewards.

Possibly from the start they should have separated achievements from progress reporting, but they didn't. However you are writing very much an "as I play it" response IMHO, which is ignoring the fact others do it differently.

Splitting it back into progress and achievements as the character and the global view is a matter of labels really but would probably be the best approach, and certainly better than the train wreck on PTS right now.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

So now I can't tell what dungeons and group events or questlines I need to go get the skill points from on a given character. This is really really screwed up and broken.

Account wide achievements are a great idea but implementing them by deleting all the existing ones and mashing stuff up so all the addons break and you can't actually see important things you need to know like dungeon progress per character is actually dumber than dark convergence.

Still easy to do
Group event arent included
As for questline and dungeon, as long as its not whitevon the map, the quest isnt finished

But it wont now tell me if have done on normal or vet. Or if hm/speed/no death. As if done on another character, all filled in as complete.

So not much help. At all.

Yeah but no skill point come from doing it that way, wich is what the comment i quoted spoke about

Dark_Lord_Kuro

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Tough we want acount unlock not accout view wich is totally useless

Mephit

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Tough we want acount unlock nont accout view wich is totally useless

Why?

Salmeyna

I also would like to offer my thanks to the dev team for these changes. For reasons i can't check out the PTS myself, but i asked a friend to test different things.
I was a bit afraid about the implementation, but turns out, this will be done in the best way possible to me personally, if it goes live like this.

About the opt-in: i don't mind if there is a toggle at the beginning, but i wish it to be permanent. Just having a different tab with global achievements defeats the purpose of accountwide achievements. So i couldn't care less if some people opted out of it for their own reasons, but in that case i would like the possibility taken from me to revert to character specific achievements.

I'm playing since release, almost every day, and i might have a bit of an obsession issue. I have to collect everything, which also includes every achievement on every character. This takes away so much time of me actually being able to enjoy the content with my multiple chars, as i'm constantly working on grinding achievements on alts, which is by far less fun then just explore and quest. The first time is special, ofc, and there is no difference to me between the Master Angler, Saviour of Morrowind or trifecta achievements. The first time is awesome, but every alt is just a "check, next".
Now, if there was a way to re-earn achievements after they went accountwide, like they are now, i would just continue the tedious grind (right now slayer achievements on 8 chars, after i finished all on my first 4), because i can check the characterspecific achievements, see that something is incomplete, and obsess about it.
Regarding this i have to offer more thanks. The collection system, the outfit system, the curated drops, the armory system, and now the accountwide achievements...they help me complete everything, so i can focus more on the joy of actually playing the game.

What i absolutely love:
-not just having an overview tab, but achievements get actually unlocked, there are no missing spaces waiting to be filled out
-not having to grind out dungeon and trial achievements on all chars, which is always an issue with the elitist community, because noone cares if you have done trifecta on 4 chars, that doesn't mean the 5th can do it too...meanwhile i could just change my build on a char that already did it, and it would play completely differently...while char number 5 could have the same class and same build then a previous one, but that's not accepted because of reasons, i guess.

What i'm a bit sad about:
-having exploration and quest achievements accountwide too. it's very helpful to track character progress for all my alts, and they aren't tedious to grind out, you just have to enjoy playing the game.
-there are some achievements i got with alts first out of pure luck, so my main will have some achievements that he didn't get first.

In the end the pros by far outshine the cons.
I'm one of the crazy people that completely maxed out research and all crafting skills on all chars, have all provision recipes on all chars, and i'm working towards having all motifs and furnishing recipes on all chars. I don't mind "losing" the grand master crafter achievement on all chars that got it after my main. I don't mind "losing" the trifectas on every char that is not my main. They will have it unlocked, and that feels awesome. Ofc i will help my guildies in getting theirs. Ofc i will continue to fish and craft, ofc i will participate in future events without having to worry about having 4 more chars who haven't finished the new life writ achievement yet, and OFC i will replay the whole content with my alts, now much happier that i don't have to worry about getting all those grindy achievements again, which breaks my progression (as i have to finish everything in a zone, before i can go to the next, be that achievement, eidetic memory, dungeons or set collection).

A BIG thank you, and i hope that even if there is some opt-in, i will be able to permanently get the accountwide achievements in it's currently designed form!

Seminolegirl1992

Something I said on the general forums:

I'm of the mindset that account wide titles are *slightly* problematic. I looove the idea of account wide achievements, and..titles actually. But I would *love* for the ability to distinguish whether a title was earned by that character (like colorizing titles to reflect that). There seem to be a lot of people (myself included) who feel this would cheapen earning difficult titles more than once. There would be less incentive to earn Flawless Conqueror on multiple toons because there's no way to distinguish if that character got it. It hurts the endgame community who look at title earning as one way to motivate them to play. However, it is also nice to have access to all my titles across my 18 toons for rp reasons. I can see both sides because I am both an RPer and endgamer. Coloring the titles or perhaps even adding Flawless Conqueror x2, or x3, x18 etc are both options. Another thing to consider- I love looking at the dates that I completed certain achievements on certain characters, as a means to track my progress. I hope that won't be erased when achievements are merged.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596509/account-wide-titles-ruin-titles/p1

Highly recommend reading this as well. Tons of feedback on it. In short, I love the idea, with some added tweaks for those of us who want to track achievement completion and acknowledging which character(s) earned whichever titles.

TelvanniWizard

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

I don´t want account-wide titles (don´t care), and I certainly don´t want a way to track wich character did a specific achievement. I want all my characters to contribute to the unique, total achievement count, so i can freely play with whatever character I feel like without losing total achievement count. This is what I specifically want.

So you can’t consider a compromise, for all those who play differently to you?

If I were the developer, I´d sure have to consider a compromise, but I happen to be a customer telling what he exactly wants. Because if I don´t, people will start making asumptions like the one I was answering: "People just want this featurwe for the titles". Wrong in my case. I want account-wide achievements on their own, not because titles or rewards, but because of general progression. I understand some people want another thing. I´m just voicing my opinion. In a month, we´ll see what we are left with.

FakeFox

I think account-wide achievements are overall a good thing and as someone who plays a lot of different characters for different activities I like the idea. That said, the way it is implemented on the current PTS is just really bad. Repeating achievements on other characters is an important part of ESOs endgame and adds replay value to a lot of content. Whether it's PvE players repeating hard achievements with interesting group compositions or on roles they are less familiar with, PvP players with multiple rank 50 characters or even those legends with master angler on every character, players have invested hundreds if not thousands of hours to achieve that. With the way account-wide achievements are currently implemented on the PTS, not only are any further repeats impossible, but all those already accomplished achievements will also be more or less wiped from history. My request is simply that repetitions of achievements need to stay possible and be acknowledged in the achievement tab. I think the two add-ons Account Achievements by QuantumPie and Kyoma's Global Achievements by Kyoma both show good ways of implementing global achievements that players have come up with. I absolutely belief account-wide achievements can be implemented in a way that makes all sides happy and doesn't ruin the game for those of us that enjoy repeating achievements. But currently it unfortunately isn't and I really hope this will be addressed before the feature makes it to the live severs.

silvereyes

Oliviander wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Honestly, don't know why we're arguing/bargaining/debating with each other. It's ZoS we have to convince.

Most of the people who want account-wide, want them for the titles.

Give them the account-wide titles. I'll simply not wear a title I've not earned on that character on it.

Give everybody an account-wide overview (similar to MULTIPLE add-ons that have done it, and work great!)

Keep character achievements on the character for those that want to replay, try new classes/roles, etc.

Most people get what they want, right?

Absolutely

and the best solution for titles would actually be, as previously suggested, an indicator on how many toons
that title has been earned. (As I work against: "Grand Master Crafter 18" - And I would really like to show off that one )

Cross posting this from the grand reveal discussion thread...

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LuckyGhost wrote: »

Yeah! Super hyped for AWA btw. Allowing people to get maybe a 2x or 5x next to a title they have earned multiple times may help with concerns that they aren't accomplishing anything for repeat titless. So maybe a "4x Godslayer" would be stoked about sporting that title on all their toons!

Thanks for the feedback here, @LuckyGhost. Really cool idea! We'll pass this along to the dev team and see what they think. No promises, but it's an idea worth exploring.

Not sure if this is just placating words before the idea gets put in the circular file, but it's at least nice to see some acknowledgement from ZOS.

Nadavv

Creating account wide titles for trial trifectas and dungeons ruins the repeatability for a lot of end game players. My friend group and I love getting titles on our alt characters but now that you only need to get it once there’s no point in doing it again. I know for a fact I’ll be spending less money on new characters and I’ll be spending less time on the game now that I don’t have a reason to do content on anything else besides my main character.