PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

FeedbackOnly

Enfluginng flames change makes it impossible to put it a dk healer. It's a nice change their tank diversity, but dk healers need some love

Warden healing changes don't account for group utility it has compared to other classes such as nightblade and sorc.

Please don't forget to balance group utility when you balance overall healing skills do. It's way sidewise currently on warden

FeedbackOnly

Why do all ultimate sets never get to work on sorc class? The new negative jorvulds can't work on sorc because we litterally have a class passive lowering our ultimate below 25

Still time and time again overload is always excluded on sets. Like we aren't only ones cheap ultimates

Tannus15

francesinhalover wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

I am hoping you guys will do another pass on skill updates in Week 3. Great changes overall, but:

1. Biting Jabs getting Brutality/Sorcery does not make sense in so many ways.

• This buff on a spammable skill just seems wrong. It seems like a limitation rather than an advantage. Other classes have longer lasting versions of this buff, usually at least 20 seconds.
• Magicka Templars would never use Jabs over Puncturing Sweep, so they never get this important buff? Seems less than ideal.
• All other classes (except Necros) get Brutality/Sorcerer applied to a base skill, not just a single morph. This ensures that you have the buff you need regardless of class specialization.
• I understand giving the skill something to make it stand out now that Savagery is removed, but I would prefer something truly unique rather than a major/minor buff. Why not play off a stacking element to reward players for landing all 4 Jabs on a target like 1% bonus crit chance per Jab, 50 weapon/spell damage per Jab, bonus Penetration per Jab, etc.?
• If going the standard major/minor buff route something for Templar tanks would be a nice addition: AOE minor main, minor fracture, minor mangle, etc.
• Better options for Brutality/Sorcery in order of preference for Templar would be (1) Rune Focus, (2) Solar Flare, (3) Backlash, (4) Spear Shards - lots of good options here!

2. Necros need Brutality/Sorcery too! Tell me this is coming in week 3 please?

3. Venom Arrow getting Brutality/Sorcery is a great idea for bow builds but the buff needs to be at least 12-15 seconds long. 10 seconds is too easy to accidentally drop if your rotation is not 100% perfect.

I would preffer the skill to give minor courage or that minor bonus from kinras.
Same with rapid strikes.

Because for major brut and savagery pots exist.

i had some thoughts on this with the ability to use 2 stat pools:

so you can do a mag sorc with a stam spammable and run tri pots by slotting inner light on the front and running degen


build

resource usage

Tannus15

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Why do all ultimate sets never get to work on sorc class? The new negative jorvulds can't work on sorc because we litterally have a class passive lowering our ultimate below 25

Still time and time again overload is always excluded on sets. Like we aren't only ones cheap ultimates

because these sets are now based on ult consumed, not cost of ult they are all perfectly usable on a sorc. you can either bank ult until you have the duration you're after or just hit your ult asap and it'll all work out in the wash.

the main draw back for sorc vs other classes is we don't have any ult gen passives like warden or nightblade.

francesinhalover

Tannus15 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

I am hoping you guys will do another pass on skill updates in Week 3. Great changes overall, but:

1. Biting Jabs getting Brutality/Sorcery does not make sense in so many ways.

• This buff on a spammable skill just seems wrong. It seems like a limitation rather than an advantage. Other classes have longer lasting versions of this buff, usually at least 20 seconds.
• Magicka Templars would never use Jabs over Puncturing Sweep, so they never get this important buff? Seems less than ideal.
• All other classes (except Necros) get Brutality/Sorcerer applied to a base skill, not just a single morph. This ensures that you have the buff you need regardless of class specialization.
• I understand giving the skill something to make it stand out now that Savagery is removed, but I would prefer something truly unique rather than a major/minor buff. Why not play off a stacking element to reward players for landing all 4 Jabs on a target like 1% bonus crit chance per Jab, 50 weapon/spell damage per Jab, bonus Penetration per Jab, etc.?
• If going the standard major/minor buff route something for Templar tanks would be a nice addition: AOE minor main, minor fracture, minor mangle, etc.
• Better options for Brutality/Sorcery in order of preference for Templar would be (1) Rune Focus, (2) Solar Flare, (3) Backlash, (4) Spear Shards - lots of good options here!

2. Necros need Brutality/Sorcery too! Tell me this is coming in week 3 please?

3. Venom Arrow getting Brutality/Sorcery is a great idea for bow builds but the buff needs to be at least 12-15 seconds long. 10 seconds is too easy to accidentally drop if your rotation is not 100% perfect.

I would preffer the skill to give minor courage or that minor bonus from kinras.
Same with rapid strikes.

Because for major brut and savagery pots exist.

i had some thoughts on this with the ability to use 2 stat pools:

so you can do a mag sorc with a stam spammable and run tri pots by slotting inner light on the front and running degen


build

resource usage

Ew...crystal weps...

Wouldnt mind changing my stam build to be able to use a mag spammable... Not sure what spammables they have.

Spammables in this game are so bad outside of stam nightblades and stam templar

katorga

Vevvev wrote: »

Not sure if this has ever been mentioned but the split of DK having Minor Brutality and Templar having Minor Sorcery will not work with the current system of having all sets giving spell and weapon damage whenever they have damage stats.

ZOS said the group buff passives will remain as is so classes do not lose their reason to be included in a group. Same goes for sorc minor proficy and NB minor savagery.

francesinhalover wrote: »

Irfind wrote: »

All skills with Major Brutality/Sorcery:

2h Momentum and morph: 20sec prebuff
Dual wield Hidden blade: 20sec and 40sec in combat
NB Drain power: 20sec in combat
DK Molten Weapons: 45sec and 30sec prebuff
Warden Betty netch: 25sec prebuff
Mage Surge: 33sec prebuff
Templar Puncturing Strikes: 10sec (but its a spammable so ok i guess ?) in combat
Mage guild Degeneration: 20sec in combat

and Bow: Venom Arrow 10 sec in combat ... what ??? Please buff it to 20sec thx

Id preffer 15 secs dot on venom harrow so it is easy to use with endless hail. But the dmg buff could stay for 25-30 like flying dagger

It should be made a passive buff like major gallop.

Once ZOS put major sorc/brutality on so many things, it becomes unbalanced that one weapon skill and one class does not have native access to it.

seventyfive

Some numbers that I want you to look at:

Let's assume 25k resistances in pvp is a fairly common amount that is reached by at least 50% of players.
Now assume that the average player with the above stats decides to block and has a block mitigation of a modest 60%.

25k resistances converts to roughly 25 * 1.5 = 37.5% mitigation.

Normally he would take 25% damage: 0,625 * 0.4 = 0.25

Aurora javelin will do 100% damage and can be spammed by simply putting a bit extra effort into regaining resources.

Aurora javelin does however have slightly lower base damage even when we account for a modest 30% increase from the range multiplier (not optimized in other words). That gives us a base damage of 1869, and when compared to something like flame lash at 2323, we get a factor of 0.80


If we apply that factor on the previous numbers, we get 25% compared to 80%, in other words, our final number is this:

Aurora javelin does 220% more damage (or 3.2x in total) compared to the average spammable in this scenario.

Is this an uncommon scenario?
More than 50% of players likely have at least 25k resistances.
Blocking is an essential mechanic utilized frequently by a large player base.

What do you think? Is it an uncommon scenario? Perhaps it isn't.

But the numbers above, 220% damage increase, simply demands that this scenario is uncommon. It isn't.

Duane

These Hybrid Scaling Changes will kill PvP.

Right now we are in a weird meta(In PvP), where this is a power creep on offense, where you can stack upwards of 8-10k damage with relative ease, mainly because of the CP 2.0 changes(adding 1000 damage), hybrid balancing of armor sets, mythic items(majesty), monster sets (magma) and more. While on the other hand you have this same high damage also effecting high healing potential. Now don't get me wrong, i love the aspect of having damage on build while also getting healing from it. However with the Hybrid scaling of abilities i feel this will make cross healing in PvP a nightmare. Magic builds for the longest time have always had more group utility, while stamina builds focused on the solo aspects of PvP. This balance is being broken by these changes. If cross healing wasn't removed it wouldn't be so dire in my opinion.

We all like to claim these hybrid changes in the name of "build diversity" but this can't be further from the truth in PvP. Everyone will have a resto staff back bar with Radiant Regeneration, stacking tons of cross heals in PvP. The one most widely used sets will be wretched vitality providing so much off stat sustain to keep those heals churning especially on the stamina end of builds.

Stamina Nightblade (Healthy Offering 20k Burst Heal)
Stamina DK (Dragon Blood/Cauterize(which already scales off highest stat))
Stamina Templar (Bubble/Honor the Dead 20k Burst Heal)
Stamina Necromancers (Intensive Mender/Resilient Flesh/Mortal Coil)
Stamina Warden (Vines, Budding Seeds)
The only class getting shafted in this is Stamina sorcerer as they don't really get much value from hybrid scaling because Dark Conversion doesn't scale off anything...

Magic Builds are relatively unchanged in this Meta, except for a few possible changes to using 2h with execute, duel wield whirling blades. I have no issues or problems with damage scaling off highest stat as this will provide differences in skill setups. But in PvP, the only thing that really matters is survival, you find the bare minimum you need, then pump up the damage to the max to secure kills. Magic Specs could possibly benefit to using resolving vigor/rally in some situations however i do not think this will take hold, like stamina builds using resto staves.

I'm not saying to "nerf stamina" or nerf anything really. I think its best to take these things slower, rather than "shooting first asking questions later". This changes seem rushed, doing the damage skills i think would overall be a good middle ground, however the healing should be more closely monitored in my opinion at later date.

But what do i know I'm just a PvPer.

francesinhalover

were there changes this week for pve balance or pvp? i don't see anything... am i checking on the wrong place?

venom arrow could use a duration buff... and plaguebreak some nerfs or reworks to work on pve and not kill 40 players with no skill in pvp.

Seraphayel

francesinhalover wrote: »

were there changes this week for pve balance or pvp? i don't see anything... am i checking on the wrong place?

venom arrow could use a duration buff... and plaguebreak some nerfs or reworks to work on pve and not kill 40 players with no skill in pvp.

No, they didn't fix nor tackle any combat skills. So I am still hopeful that's reserved for next week and the final PTR build. If not... ouch.

Noerra

PvP will be broken

Hello - Hope this feedback will be helpful... but this next update is going to be so broken with the amount of healing a single person can do for themselves as a solo player but also for groups. This is going to be a terribly unfun meta if this goes live.

Tbh - if this meta goes live with people slotting Vigor and Regen on top of the free Major Protection via Flare.... I probably just not going to play this patch like I didn't play the patch when Hrothgar/Dark Convergence was breaking the game.

I can't see ESO being worth my time if this Meta goes live.

This isn't a rage/angsty/cry-baby post. Just giving some honest feedback as a paying customer. This meta looks terrible and feels terrible on the PTS. As a PvP player, I'm just not willing to deal with this upcoming healing meta.

Solution:

Make adjustments to Battle Spirit PvP buff to address this issue.
Maybe make Regen scale 50% less off stam and Vigor scale 50% less of Magicka?
Maybe nerf Cross-healing?

Something....

But without any changes before going live, I am probably going to take a break from ESO and play other games while keeping an eye out for any balancing patches in hopes that PvP will get a balanced meta..

It's mind boggling to me... the Meta is probably as close as it's ever been... yes magplar and magdk are probably the best, but overall class balance feels pretty great. We are so close to perfection and then these combat adjustments happen...

I love the idea of better hybridization, absolutely, my hope is that it doesn't create a broken healing meta for pvp tho.

xDeusEJRx

In my honest opinion, I think there should be a cap on the same ticking HoTs on the same person at any given time. Like 2-3 radiating regen/rapid regen ticking on the same person at once.
I think it shouldn't affect PVE much since dungeon/trial healers will only be putting 2 regens on the same person at one time anyways since I think the composition is 2 healers in groups.

Just some food for thought, willing to have criticism convo about it.

Tannus15

francesinhalover wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

I am hoping you guys will do another pass on skill updates in Week 3. Great changes overall, but:

1. Biting Jabs getting Brutality/Sorcery does not make sense in so many ways.

• This buff on a spammable skill just seems wrong. It seems like a limitation rather than an advantage. Other classes have longer lasting versions of this buff, usually at least 20 seconds.
• Magicka Templars would never use Jabs over Puncturing Sweep, so they never get this important buff? Seems less than ideal.
• All other classes (except Necros) get Brutality/Sorcerer applied to a base skill, not just a single morph. This ensures that you have the buff you need regardless of class specialization.
• I understand giving the skill something to make it stand out now that Savagery is removed, but I would prefer something truly unique rather than a major/minor buff. Why not play off a stacking element to reward players for landing all 4 Jabs on a target like 1% bonus crit chance per Jab, 50 weapon/spell damage per Jab, bonus Penetration per Jab, etc.?
• If going the standard major/minor buff route something for Templar tanks would be a nice addition: AOE minor main, minor fracture, minor mangle, etc.
• Better options for Brutality/Sorcery in order of preference for Templar would be (1) Rune Focus, (2) Solar Flare, (3) Backlash, (4) Spear Shards - lots of good options here!

2. Necros need Brutality/Sorcery too! Tell me this is coming in week 3 please?

3. Venom Arrow getting Brutality/Sorcery is a great idea for bow builds but the buff needs to be at least 12-15 seconds long. 10 seconds is too easy to accidentally drop if your rotation is not 100% perfect.

I would preffer the skill to give minor courage or that minor bonus from kinras.
Same with rapid strikes.

Because for major brut and savagery pots exist.

i had some thoughts on this with the ability to use 2 stat pools:

so you can do a mag sorc with a stam spammable and run tri pots by slotting inner light on the front and running degen


build

resource usage

Ew...crystal weps...

Wouldnt mind changing my stam build to be able to use a mag spammable... Not sure what spammables they have.

Spammables in this game are so bad outside of stam nightblades and stam templar

I did a stam sorc variation on this build with ele weapon and crystal frags and mages fury which was pretty fun

ele weapon, frags, bound armaments, mages wrath, bird

McTaterskins

This is from the coefficient/heal issue thread I started - I had the thread because it's a specific issue. But i'll make sure this gets into there as well.

McTaterskins wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

I don't know if it's possible to change the heal stacking dynamic in pvp without messing up pve healing, since we depend on stacked hots for trials, but if it can be done, I could get behind that.

How many RR's do you stack in trials?

HoT Alternatives:
Ritual/Morph
Strife/Morph
Grand Healing/Morphs
Budding Seeds
Vines/Trellis
Nature's Grasp/Morphs
Life Amid Death/Morphs
Spirit Mender/Morphs
Restoring Tether/Morphs
Ring of Preservation
Vigor/Morphs
Cinder Storm
Refreshing Path
Energy Orb


Special Consideration:
Lotus Flower/Morphs
Siphoning Strikes/Morphs
Surge/Morphs
Various Synergies
Various Ultimates
Various Proc sets
Hungry Scythe
Bitter Harvest/Morphs
Bond with Nature Passive
Blood Magic Passive
Unflinching Rage Passive
Glyphs
Poisons
Altar/Morphs


Is there any explanation as to why none of the above listed skills and factors aren't taken into consideration as alternatives if Radiant Regen weren't stackable? Other than having to swap one fire and forget button for another?

If it's simply "RR is just that much better/cheaper/etc." then it only reinforces the point that the skill needs to be looked at. Nvm the part where my GF's templar gets as good/better RR ticks on me with <5k spell dmg and minimal +healing than my 6k+wep dmg resolving vigor ticks. - In the case of that point, after the patch, why would I not just switch to RR and stack it with the other one in the group instead of blowing stam and a slot on Vigor? Or.... why not combine them? See the problem?

Not baiting or bashing @p00tx at all. The point is, his question is the common argument or 'go to' as to what/why the changes wouldn't or shouldn't take place.

The list above is quite long and full of completely useable alternatives. If a change to whether or not RR stacks were to somehow impact PvE, it is a player side problem at that point. Which, again, is an adjustment to one of the healers or support members slotting something else and moving on.


@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno - anyone? Any acknowledgement or "here's why this is intended"? Anything going on there? You've got content creators posting videos explaining the upcoming changes are a partial reason as to why they're moving on to other games (Elden Ring) or giving up.

Communication and response to feedback is going to be more and more critical this year.

McTaterskins

Again, from the other thread discussing the specific topic. Making sure it gets into here.

McTaterskins wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Which change specifically are you referring to?

Uh like, the huge defining change of the entire update, making all abilities scale with your highest stats?

@divnyi - Yeah it's a pretty big update coming with the dynamic scaling changes. Some pretty crazy examples already being uploaded from PTS:

Including, but not limited to... Stam DK's with 26k+ coag crits while 2k+ ticks per target are pumping from burning embers. (There's already PTS video)

3-4k vines ticks with 6-7k bursts (all non crit) on the trellis end .. on stam wardens.

23k+ crits on RF on stam necros.

3-4k++ spirit guardian ticks on stam cros.

24k+ HtD crits on Stamplars.

4k ticks on radiating regen on assorted Stam builds. (DKs/Plars primarily)

This stuff is just what I've seen on PTS vids on the current round.

McTaterskins

https://youtu.be/jSCEoNkKefs

Jabassa

These healing changes aren’t acceptable for PvP, as they are only going to exacerbate an already existing issue. This has been clearly demonstrated by just about every PvP content creator at this point.

These changes are also negligible in PvE one way or the other.

That said, I *DO NOT* want nerfs. Update 32 was perfect, or at least as close to it as i think it gets. Just revert these changes to what they were in update 32, and leave it there for the remainder of the year. It can be reassessed then. Please and thank you.

Tannus15

Jabassa wrote: »

These healing changes aren’t acceptable for PvP, as they are only going to exacerbate an already existing issue. This has been clearly demonstrated by just about every PvP content creator at this point.

These changes are also negligible in PvE one way or the other.

That said, I *DO NOT* want nerfs. Update 32 was perfect, or at least as close to it as i think it gets. Just revert these changes to what they were in update 32, and leave it there for the remainder of the year. It can be reassessed then. Please and thank you.

yeah nah. just balance things in update 33 when it turns out something is too strong.

VarisVaris

Tannus15 wrote: »

Jabassa wrote: »

These healing changes aren’t acceptable for PvP, as they are only going to exacerbate an already existing issue. This has been clearly demonstrated by just about every PvP content creator at this point.

These changes are also negligible in PvE one way or the other.

That said, I *DO NOT* want nerfs. Update 32 was perfect, or at least as close to it as i think it gets. Just revert these changes to what they were in update 32, and leave it there for the remainder of the year. It can be reassessed then. Please and thank you.

yeah nah. just balance things in update 33 when it turns out something is too strong.

What do you mean by "when it turns out"?
The changes on pts are unbalanced as heck there is no need to go through 3 months of horrible balance when every single change Zos has made with U33 negatively impacts PvP balance.

Embers being a hot: broken as hell
Javalin ignoring block: broken as hell
Hybridization: biggest balance nightmare this game has ever seen
Dark Convergence fix: what the f... no pvper wants this set to exist in it's current Form and they decide to Buff it
Power Slam affected by bash damage amplifiers: yeah 10/10 idea to give sword and board the highest damage Spammable
...


This patch is terrible and anyone who has even read the patch notes should know that and anyone who has been on pts has felt it directly.

U32 already is a stinker balance wise and the whole U33 patch should have been direct nerfs to magdk, magplar, magnecro and radiating regen stacking but instead U33 drops a huge dump on top of the current pile of poopy balance

RitualSmoke

Developers I know its long but please read this all. it is coming from nearly 5 years playing warden and a love to be more involved in providing feedback about my favorite class.

Being my favorite class I do feel several of our skills get no real use in our tool kit and hurt our class identity

Lotus Flower changes are interesting but I still feel most wont really run it, on paper it has always sounded great but I've never been able to make it work personally.

I feel it has been rarely slotted because it is easier to get the crit bonus from Inner Light along with several other passives.

To me it feels clunky and for the life of me even with good LA weaving it just doesn't seem to perform. and if you consider poor LA weaving of average or new player its not gonna get used enough to help the problem we are experiencing

Magden is possibly the weakest 1v1 in my opinion and popular opinion is that it is because of its weak heals, where it gets confusing is wardens can be great group healers, but our heals are clunky and most of our heals require a decent amount of skill to target and we end up swapping to backbar to heal and getting stuck there spamming heal and losing our momentum to put pressure on a target.

The reason I bring this up is because I do believe this skill is supposed to be our heal while doing damage that will let us get some combos in and keep some pressure on and it is just not being utilized because it does not perform, and the changes to this skill will not change that in my opinion.

Possible solutions to get this on bars

Change it to proc off something besides light attacks or not be a proc at all possibly?
add a HoT effect to the initial heal

Natures Grasp

This skill can be fun in pvp or to port over to the guy standing on top of a sign post but it is not that great of a heal that requires a decent amount of skill to really use.
Bursting Vines if you intend it to be used as a rescue heal that generates some ultimate from saving someone's life
then reducing its healing to make it more in line with Rushed Ceremony has me confused how a single target heal that you have to manually target and has a delay really compares to a spammable aoe cone? I think moving it in line with any other ability needs to be thought out completely because it is a very different type of ability to use reliably and deserves some reward to the risk.

I don't think most will care about the healing reduction but I do feel it is a bit unnecessary. I feel it rarely gets used because it is such a high risk skill vs spamming a group cone ability to spot heal.

Living Vines is an excellent HoT but the duration is just a bit to short to work into a lot of rotations

Enchanted Growth works fine and is a decent spammable burst cone heal more comparable with Rushed Ceremony

Healing Seed I'd love to see the back end improvements in play because it can be very clunky to initiate the delayed heal of Budding Seeds, the other morph Corrupting Pollen would benefit greatly from having a Hot instead of the delayed heal.

Emerald Moss this passive is great if you want to run a lot of warden heals but most of the heals are situational or difficult to target/use so I believe a lot of people run resto staff heals and lose out on this passive

Secluded Grove would be nice for one of the morphs to insta cast in circle around the target for life saving moments without ground targeting and smoother game play

Frozen Retreat interesting concept but I don't think this morph is ever used it would be a good opportunity to rework it into a usable skill


I think even one of these reworks or all could greatly improve the use of these skills and keep the wardens class using them over other abilities

Jabassa

Well, I have put together an absolutely toxic unkillable tankplar for update 33. It already takes a 20 man group in cyro to squish it in the current live server, and it will only be stronger with a sea of mutagens to wallow in. I hope for the sake of the game that you guys correct this, because it’s not hard to figure out my build if you see it, and once it catches on, oh boy…

50k resistances
45k health
105% damage mitigation
1400 mag recovery
A 20k damage shield
It already has high group healing capability
Better yet, I don’t have to move much and don’t block due to Gaze of Sithis, so I look like I’m inexperienced. I’ll stand in AOEs, I’ll purposely turn my back to attackers, I’ll walk through mines just so my team won’t stumble into them, but my favorite is turning to face gankers/snipers and emoting at them while I have a dog pile on me, it’s a good time.
^and that’s in the current patch!

Oh yeah, and I get plenty of kills too, or rather, I steel plenty of kills from the enemy team, thanks to Javelin (which is getting a huge buff) + Jesus Beam. And for those I miss, well my team quickly realizes what’s going on, so they just wait on the outskirts of the dog pile a pick off what I miss.

And better yet, people think I’m the healer so they focus me. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for the other players in the BG when they watch me eat all 8 ultimates from both opposing teams within a 2 second interval, and I’m still holding 50% of my health bar. And not only that, I can maintain it over and over until the BG times out without a single death.

Go on though, buff healing… and bring flag games back to BGs in the same patch…

Someone hold my beer while I peak the MMR ladder. 🍻

Jabassa

In all seriousness though, please limit Radiating Regen to two stacks per player. Thank you

Tannus15

VarisVaris wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Jabassa wrote: »

These healing changes aren’t acceptable for PvP, as they are only going to exacerbate an already existing issue. This has been clearly demonstrated by just about every PvP content creator at this point.

These changes are also negligible in PvE one way or the other.

That said, I *DO NOT* want nerfs. Update 32 was perfect, or at least as close to it as i think it gets. Just revert these changes to what they were in update 32, and leave it there for the remainder of the year. It can be reassessed then. Please and thank you.

yeah nah. just balance things in update 33 when it turns out something is too strong.

What do you mean by "when it turns out"?
The changes on pts are unbalanced as heck there is no need to go through 3 months of horrible balance when every single change Zos has made with U33 negatively impacts PvP balance.

Embers being a hot: broken as hell
Javalin ignoring block: broken as hell
Hybridization: biggest balance nightmare this game has ever seen
Dark Convergence fix: what the f... no pvper wants this set to exist in it's current Form and they decide to Buff it
Power Slam affected by bash damage amplifiers: yeah 10/10 idea to give sword and board the highest damage Spammable
...


This patch is terrible and anyone who has even read the patch notes should know that and anyone who has been on pts has felt it directly.

U32 already is a stinker balance wise and the whole U33 patch should have been direct nerfs to magdk, magplar, magnecro and radiating regen stacking but instead U33 drops a huge dump on top of the current pile of poopy balance

that's kinda my point. it's too much to balance right now. they really want to move forward to the hybrid balance and ditch the stamina / magicka divide (which i think is awesome) but it's a huge job so they have broken it up into stages.

first stage was the armour and sets in update 32, this stage is skills and next is consumables and whatever random bits are left over.
I would expect to see the most unbalanced aspects fixed next patch and then continual balancing for update 35 and 36.

if they tried to balance everything now they would get it wrong anyway. half of it would be reacting to update 32, half to problem they are guessing at for update 33 and then they would probably miss a whole pile of stuff anyway.

fripplethorn

The most recent changes to One Hand & Shield passive for Bashing is not the ideal way to handle the problem introduced by the new Power Slam scaling. Power Slam was too powerful with the new scaling. However, gutting Bash itself by 66% just kills the build. You could have tried dropping it something reasonable like 25%, and it probably still would have made most people drop the concept.

Killing off the Heavy Attack builds and the Bash builds in the same patch is just promoting the cookie-cutter experience where everyone is a MagDK with a resto back bar and MistForm. This is boring.

Please reconsider.

MudcrabAttack

Bows still need an adjustment. I primarily run stamina builds, and this patch has finally opened my eyes to just how messed up bows are. I get better dps from a staff now on a stamina toon, just using one hybrid staff skill that works at full strength while mixing in other things.

It’s a combination of issues causing the problem. Weaving bow light attacks between skills is still a clunky experience, everything has to slow down just to get the light attacks to land consistently. And using a bow on one bar and a different weapon on another causes hawk eye to run out more often than not, it’s way too important of a buff that relies on way too clunky of a mechanic, causing many people to view the bow as a problematic weapon

Tannus15

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Bows still need an adjustment. I primarily run stamina builds, and this patch has finally opened my eyes to just how messed up bows are. I get better dps from a staff now on a stamina toon, just using one hybrid staff skill that works at full strength while mixing in other things.

It’s a combination of issues causing the problem. Weaving bow light attacks between skills is still a clunky experience, everything has to slow down just to get the light attacks to land consistently. And using a bow on one bar and a different weapon on another causes hawk eye to run out more often than not, it’s way too important of a buff that relies on way too clunky of a mechanic, causing many people to view the bow as a problematic weapon

personally i'm expecting some love for bows and lighting staff in the near future as both options feel far inferior to inferno staff now.

katorga

Tannus15 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Bows still need an adjustment. I primarily run stamina builds, and this patch has finally opened my eyes to just how messed up bows are. I get better dps from a staff now on a stamina toon, just using one hybrid staff skill that works at full strength while mixing in other things.

It’s a combination of issues causing the problem. Weaving bow light attacks between skills is still a clunky experience, everything has to slow down just to get the light attacks to land consistently. And using a bow on one bar and a different weapon on another causes hawk eye to run out more often than not, it’s way too important of a buff that relies on way too clunky of a mechanic, causing many people to view the bow as a problematic weapon

personally i'm expecting some love for bows and lighting staff in the near future as both options feel far inferior to inferno staff now.

10% increased damage for all of your single target or aoe abilities is a huge advantage for staves.

fripplethorn

Do they ever respond here? Or are we just spitting in the wind? I'd still like to hear the reasoning behind a 1500 to 500 nuke of a nerf instead of a 1500 to 1200 actual test nerf... if they were being honest about wanting to allow niche builds. Gutting the entire build around one skill (that no one asked for in the first place) is not encouraging niche builds. In fact, just the opposite. Not everyone wants to play MagDK...

Tannus15

fripplethorn wrote: »

Do they ever respond here? Or are we just spitting in the wind? I'd still like to hear the reasoning behind a 1500 to 500 nuke of a nerf instead of a 1500 to 1200 actual test nerf... if they were being honest about wanting to allow niche builds. Gutting the entire build around one skill (that no one asked for in the first place) is not encouraging niche builds. In fact, just the opposite. Not everyone wants to play MagDK...

from what i can see forum discussions are read, collated and passed on. They rarely respond in a thread directly

katorga

Duane wrote: »

These Hybrid Scaling Changes will kill PvP........

Magic Builds are relatively unchanged in this Meta, except for a few possible changes to using 2h with execute, duel wield whirling blades.

There are NO magic or stamina builds going forward. We have to stop thinking of builds that way.

Today, my magcro gets a 4K spirit guardian heal , while my stamcro gets 2K. Next chapter my necro gets the same damage and healing across the board. The only thing I have to worry about is how much primary stat, secondary stat and recoveries do I need to keep up a mixed rotation of skills that cost mag and stam.