PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

huskandhunger

With hybridization coming next patch please consider buffing Major and Minor Defile as healing is already sometimes out of control and we need a counter to how strong it is in PVP contexts.

Or possibly introduce more sources of healing absorption.

Thank you.

nwilliams2107b16_ESO

luchtt wrote: »

I have another post where I discuss this in the PTS forum area, but ill post it here again. For the heavy attack/light attack sets, since we don't know any developer comments behind the reason you nerfed this into the ground, I'll simply assume it's either 1: Unifying sets to be scaled on spell damage and weapon damage, so that outliers like these sets no longer seem so outlier-y, but unfortunately did not realize where these sets got their dps from, or how it scaled thus ending up nerfing them severely.

Or 2nd: this is an intentional nerf to combat heavy attack builds in PvP where they are a bit loose. I'll coment on this one a bit here, the reason you see these absurdly high dmg ticks from lightning heavies in pvp is mainly because of off balance, it severely increases the HA dmg, so another thing you could do is nerf that aspect of it, but there's a much easier solution to make almost everyone happy, here demonstrated with Undaunted Unweaver's set bonus changed:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds.

to:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 against non-player enemies for 10 seconds.

I don't think anyone is complaining about these sets in pve, except maybe some toxic casuals, the only real problem is these massive off balance LHA ticks, that go up to like 40k damage in pvp. it's frustrating to play against I understand, and if they really do deserve a nerf I think this change would be perfect for it. The only problem would be that these sets no longer are availible for pvp use other than the 4 piece bonuses, but I think the question of whether this build should be nerfed like this suggestion or the current PTS way is pretty clear.

If you really wanted to keep these sets in pvp, you could for example add a tooltip like this:

(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds, this bonus is halved against player enemies.

To put it simply: the reason these sets are a bit weird is because they seem a bit overtuned in pvp, but still remain a nice balanced niche for lower skill players, due to their inherent minimum damage due to the flat damage increase. You can even scale up these builds with a good parse to hit up to 80-90k ish dps on the dummy, 90k being pretty much the absolute limit. This is a fairly good dps number, and you can get into most trials and clear them effectively with this type of build. For build diversity, this type of heavy attack build fits perfectly I would say. However, with these massive nerfs, my 90k dps build now hits only about 65k if I'm REALLY trying.

Quoting someone who commented on my original post:

Allowing for build diversity is what you would like to encourage with the new changes however the changes to these sets make them so weak as to be pointless, effectively killing off a viable DPS build. Reconsidering these changes is a must in order to ensure that the playstyle remains playable. 90k dps is an acceptable top end for a high sustain setup however 65k is so low as to be barely allowed into basically any vet trial.

Dev's, please listen to this, best post on here by far.

VarisVaris

Vevvev wrote: »

LordeGian wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

The balance in PvP currently isn't really optimal on the live servers right now, some abilities, set and mechanics are clearly overperforming and should be addressed before making things even worse with the upcoming changes.


Skills

Intensive Mender

This skill offers healing way beyond other HoTs while being really cheap and also allows for insane crosshealing capabilities. The easy way out is simply reducing the heal because right now it's simply too strong, this should be done by reducing the overall heal by 25% but increase the duration to 12 seconds this keeps the skill rather cheap but prevents it from basically being a burst heal every time it heals you

Living Dark

This skill has been indirectly buffed to mindbogglingly high healing numbers with the changes to how people can stack spelldamage, but even a build that doesn't fully builds into stacking damage gets more healing out of this ability than other Hots can provide, additionally the way it works makes this heal even better as it always heals you when you take damage and therefore acts as a direct reduction to the damage you take. Depending on who you fight (read this as anything that isn't a full damage build) this ability will keep you alive infinitely with no chance for the enemy to ever kill you, it might even outheal the damage from the skills you're eating.
This ability should retain it's function but have it's healing potential against single targets reduced significantly. Having 5k hps in duels vs another templar from a single skill is just laughable.
Therefore the heal should still have a 500ms cooldown but can only be procced by each target every 2 seconds.
This makes it a great option when fighting outnumbered but prevents it from turning templars into unkillable damage absorbing blobs of doom

Bombard

This skill provides way too much bang for its buck, not only does it deal great damage while being undodgeable, it also comes with a root that you can refresh over and over again on targets who can't break the root in the first place, no other skill offers this much utility by chewing through the enemy's stamina while also helping ball groups to kite and keep people locked in places to nuke them afterwards.
This skill should lose its root and rather gain something else and AoE Root with high damage simply isn't balanced and it won't ever be even if you remove the snare it also offers like you did in Patch v7.3.0

Radiating Regen

This is the biggest offenders when it comes to high survivability of ballgroups and groups in general, this skill is so powerful that the viability of a certain spec instantly increases when it can slot this ability, this goes so far that stamsorc in smallscale runs bow+resto now
This ability has to have it's crosshealing capabilities nerfed significantly, make it so that you can only have 2 Radiating regen active on you (like vigor before it was changed to a single target heal) at any given moment, this way it won't hurt PvE but it will help PvP significantly

Sets
Caluurion's Legacy

This set offers too much burst especially when using it on NB which guarantees a hit in conjunction with cloak, with it being able to crit it's damage numbers went through the roof and now once again allows people to have oneshot gank builds with little to no counterplay depending on how good or bad performance is and if you break-free button is responsive.
The amount of burst this set offers is simply too much and should be split into a direct damage and dot portion to make this set less bursty but keeps it's damage consistent overall.

Draurgkin

This set allows people to achieve burst and pressure numbers that simply shouldn't be reachable with how many different damage instances one can squeeze into those 6 seconds it provides way too much damage compared to other sets.
This set only working against a single target doesn't work as enough of a drawback as you can use this set to obliterate this target, in a situation where you only face a single opponent there is no set that comes even close to the power Draugrkin offers.

Ironblood

This set offers too much survivability while the drawback isn't anywhere near enough to keep this set in check, additionally the potential uptime of the set is really high (66%)
The cooldown of this set should be increased to 25 seconds up from 15 seconds in order to give people a slight chance of killing someone using this set

Other issues
Undeath and CPs

Please read this post as it describes the issue more detailed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510100#Comment_7510100

Harmony

This jewelry trait allows people to generate incredible burst that's not tied to the global cooldown. These synergies often provide more damage than ultimates while only having a 20 seconds cooldown per person. Due to Synergies being able to be stacked this gives groups way more power than they should have access to.
This Trait should be reworked completely. Synergies are fine the way they are without anything buffing them

Crossheals in general

Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The upcoming changes that we can currently test on the PTS will further worsen balance.
Hybridization of almost any skills will result in an unhealthy meta where only a single build for each Class will be viable, many skills will become worthless as they won't find their way onto bars as the competition just became way harder.
The potential for gamebreaking combinations has increased significantly, especially when it comes to healing and survivability.
Those changes will have such a strong impact on the meta that it is insanity to push this in one go.
All healing abilities should retain the old scaling in order to prevent Specs to merge completely and also to prevent the survivability to go through the roof.

Two more issues on the PTS:
Burning Embers being changed into a HoT is laughably broken, there is no way this should ever make it to the live server. Magdk has always been built around being forced to fight for their heals, they had to stay in a fight to get their powerlash heals, to recast their burning embers to get the heal early or to heal themselves by using Draw Essence. The addition of Cauterize and Coagulating blood are more than enough to allow magdks to have healing even when they don't face an opponent atm.

Power Bash and morphs counting as Bash damage. I totally get where the idea came from but it is unbalanced as heck. You can easily stack bash damage via bash glyphs, deadlands demolisher and other bash sets. This is totally fine on the live server, however the new interaction with a skill that has the regular meele spammable TT is too much, on non optimised build you can easily reach Power Slam tooltips of 15k without even having the 33% extra damage.
This interaction with additional bash damage for Power Bash should be removed, Power Bash and it's morphs should retain the function of bash to interrupt targets channeling a skill.


I'm confident that tackling all these issues will significantly improve PvP balance and saves us from another unbalanced patch.

Good points you put here in an organized and reasoned way.
Some classes in my opinion were too strong which are Magplar and Magdk. I expected a nerf but Magkdk got a buff, it seems to me that whoever makes such changes hasn't tried PVP currently.

It's not necessarily a buff that DK got. Burning Embers if it was left to run turned into a massive burst heal that could come multiple times out of the blue, or after reapplication of the ability, leading to them surviving some insanely brutal things. This change removes the burstyness of the Burning Embers heal and makes it a trickle heal.

Another thing to realize is that bursty heal injection could crit making a mag DK able to full heal instantly while still attacking.

Have you been on pts? Because I genuinely have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that the embers change is balanced yet alone a nerf. Magdk on pts is incredibly overperforming and there is no way for you to kill one if they don't go to the toilet during your fight unless you are a magdk aswell and just counter cheese them.

Embers will become even more powerful in OW when you can just apply the dot to everyone around you for even more constant healing while whip+coag+shattering+cauterize each provide burst heals with 8k+ healing per instance.

The embers change is one of the most problematic changes we've seen this patch and that's saying something with all the imbalance Zos has created with their Hybridization.

renne

These threads need to be split between PvP and PvE, since all I'm seeing in this thread is complaints about how stuff effects PvP.

VarisVaris

huskandhunger wrote: »

With hybridization coming next patch please consider buffing Major and Minor Defile as healing is already sometimes out of control and we need a counter to how strong it is in PVP contexts.

Or possibly introduce more sources of healing absorption.

Thank you.

No, targeting the problematic healing skills directly rather than slapping on a bandaid fix that will just cause more problems in the long run.

Defile and heal absorption have both proven to be unhealthy mechanics that are overcentralizing the whole meta around them the second they become powerful enough to shut down healing of certain classes

VarisVaris

renne wrote: »

These threads need to be split between PvP and PvE, since all I'm seeing in this thread is complaints about how stuff effects PvP.

Because PvPers will have to deal with the broken stuff while PVErs are just gonna enjoy the power creep and get some easy trifecta runs in.

Foxtrot39

VarisVaris wrote: »

renne wrote: »

These threads need to be split between PvP and PvE, since all I'm seeing in this thread is complaints about how stuff effects PvP.

Because PvPers will have to deal with the broken stuff while PVErs are just gonna enjoy the power creep and get some easy trifecta runs in.

Whats broken is that people running max spell/weapon damage also get the most ridiculous heals out of it to the point of out tanking a dedicated tank with ease if not oneshoted while they can nearly oneshot a tank in return

The only option in PVP is running as a DD, tank are worthless as max health scaling heals is crap vs damage scaling heal and if everyone can just output massive heals with such ease the healer's job is basicaly delegated to an extra safety net at best

renne

VarisVaris wrote: »

renne wrote: »

These threads need to be split between PvP and PvE, since all I'm seeing in this thread is complaints about how stuff effects PvP.

Because PvPers will have to deal with the broken stuff while PVErs are just gonna enjoy the power creep and get some easy trifecta runs in.

Except how PvE stuff gets nerfed through the floor because PvPers boohoo about X, Y and Z.

francesinhalover

Sorc crystal weapon
insta skil
10k dmg
1k pen for all group
Heals
Gives team dmg buff (sorc passive)

Rapid strikes from dual wield
0.6 sec skill
11k dmg

Please buff rapid strikes

you can buff the dmg, add minor courage to it, penetration...something, but please

nihoumab14_ESO

VarisVaris wrote: »

Crossheals in general
]Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to there being too much healing going out overall. However, I think a big problem that this change only exacerbates is that cross healing is a symptom of a larger problem in that it is too easy for people to heal themselves. You touched on some of that in your posts with things like living dark, as well as some of the more problematic abilities in radiating regen (which if the current changes go through will mmake even mmore characters able to easily provide this kind of healing).

However, I think the fundamental problem from healing in PVP boils down to two things: Self heals are (generally) far too powerful, and there is no tradeoff that has to be made between powerful heals and powerful damage (to a point). To that first point, there is no reason why a person who is full DD should ever be able to output strong self healing, unless they are built around strong self healing at the expense of damage (or find some happy medium). To wit, if you want to do strong heals, you should be investing into tankiness. Conversely, if you want to do strong damage, you should be investing into doing that. Same for healing others, that should be an investment you make. However, since in ESO healing power for the vast majority of abilities is tied to the same stats that boost damage, it makes dipping into powerful heals a moot point.

The real solution is to make heals intended to be self heals rely on max health to determine their strength (though perhaps some should remain that don't scale off max health, and should be adjusted accordingly), and heals intended to heal other people rely on stats like +healing % done (and perhaps a separate +healing crit% chance), so that those who would heal need to properly invest into doing that, instead of having heals scale off of the ostensibly damage oriented weapon/spell damage.

That doesn't mean your suggestion to separately balance self healing and healing of others wouldn't be useful, I just feel that without really tackling the base problem, all you'd do is discourage the playstyle of healing other people while still not really addressing the elephant in the room.

VarisVaris

nihoumab14_ESO wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Crossheals in general
]Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The real solution is to make heals intended to be self heals rely on max health to determine their strength (though perhaps some should remain that don't scale off max health, and should be adjusted accordingly), and heals intended to heal other people rely on stats like +healing % done (and perhaps a separate +healing crit% chance), so that those who would heal need to properly invest into doing that, instead of having heals scale off of the ostensibly damage oriented weapon/spell damage.

This would be just as unhealthy for PvP as the current situation is.
We had strong HP scaling heals in the past with arctic Blast or WW heal and the results were that people would just build for 40k HP have great heals and due to HP being easily stackable they also didn't give up much damage while their survivability increased significantly.

Having high health and high heals means you can't die.

The way how healing works at its core is fine and self heals need to be sufficient to keep you alive because that's what allows people to not be forced to run a healer in order to survive.
Healing has become an issue due to constant power creep delivered by ZOS through many ways be it direct buffs to skills, the free 1k wpn/spell damage when they changed CP, the armor/light attack hybridization allowing magicka specs to stack spelldamage very easily along with new sets you can use.


That's why having your self heals scale with HP is a very bad idea for PvP.

LordeGian

VarisVaris wrote: »

The balance in PvP currently isn't really optimal on the live servers right now, some abilities, set and mechanics are clearly overperforming and should be addressed before making things even worse with the upcoming changes.


Skills

Intensive Mender

This skill offers healing way beyond other HoTs while being really cheap and also allows for insane crosshealing capabilities. The easy way out is simply reducing the heal because right now it's simply too strong, this should be done by reducing the overall heal by 25% but increase the duration to 12 seconds this keeps the skill rather cheap but prevents it from basically being a burst heal every time it heals you

Living Dark

This skill has been indirectly buffed to mindbogglingly high healing numbers with the changes to how people can stack spelldamage, but even a build that doesn't fully builds into stacking damage gets more healing out of this ability than other Hots can provide, additionally the way it works makes this heal even better as it always heals you when you take damage and therefore acts as a direct reduction to the damage you take. Depending on who you fight (read this as anything that isn't a full damage build) this ability will keep you alive infinitely with no chance for the enemy to ever kill you, it might even outheal the damage from the skills you're eating.
This ability should retain it's function but have it's healing potential against single targets reduced significantly. Having 5k hps in duels vs another templar from a single skill is just laughable.
Therefore the heal should still have a 500ms cooldown but can only be procced by each target every 2 seconds.
This makes it a great option when fighting outnumbered but prevents it from turning templars into unkillable damage absorbing blobs of doom

Bombard

This skill provides way too much bang for its buck, not only does it deal great damage while being undodgeable, it also comes with a root that you can refresh over and over again on targets who can't break the root in the first place, no other skill offers this much utility by chewing through the enemy's stamina while also helping ball groups to kite and keep people locked in places to nuke them afterwards.
This skill should lose its root and rather gain something else and AoE Root with high damage simply isn't balanced and it won't ever be even if you remove the snare it also offers like you did in Patch v7.3.0

Radiating Regen

This is the biggest offenders when it comes to high survivability of ballgroups and groups in general, this skill is so powerful that the viability of a certain spec instantly increases when it can slot this ability, this goes so far that stamsorc in smallscale runs bow+resto now
This ability has to have it's crosshealing capabilities nerfed significantly, make it so that you can only have 2 Radiating regen active on you (like vigor before it was changed to a single target heal) at any given moment, this way it won't hurt PvE but it will help PvP significantly

Sets
Caluurion's Legacy

This set offers too much burst especially when using it on NB which guarantees a hit in conjunction with cloak, with it being able to crit it's damage numbers went through the roof and now once again allows people to have oneshot gank builds with little to no counterplay depending on how good or bad performance is and if you break-free button is responsive.
The amount of burst this set offers is simply too much and should be split into a direct damage and dot portion to make this set less bursty but keeps it's damage consistent overall.

Draurgkin

This set allows people to achieve burst and pressure numbers that simply shouldn't be reachable with how many different damage instances one can squeeze into those 6 seconds it provides way too much damage compared to other sets.
This set only working against a single target doesn't work as enough of a drawback as you can use this set to obliterate this target, in a situation where you only face a single opponent there is no set that comes even close to the power Draugrkin offers.

Ironblood

This set offers too much survivability while the drawback isn't anywhere near enough to keep this set in check, additionally the potential uptime of the set is really high (66%)
The cooldown of this set should be increased to 25 seconds up from 15 seconds in order to give people a slight chance of killing someone using this set

Other issues
Undeath and CPs

Please read this post as it describes the issue more detailed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510100#Comment_7510100

Harmony

This jewelry trait allows people to generate incredible burst that's not tied to the global cooldown. These synergies often provide more damage than ultimates while only having a 20 seconds cooldown per person. Due to Synergies being able to be stacked this gives groups way more power than they should have access to.
This Trait should be reworked completely. Synergies are fine the way they are without anything buffing them

Crossheals in general

Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The upcoming changes that we can currently test on the PTS will further worsen balance.
Hybridization of almost any skills will result in an unhealthy meta where only a single build for each Class will be viable, many skills will become worthless as they won't find their way onto bars as the competition just became way harder.
The potential for gamebreaking combinations has increased significantly, especially when it comes to healing and survivability.
Those changes will have such a strong impact on the meta that it is insanity to push this in one go.
All healing abilities should retain the old scaling in order to prevent Specs to merge completely and also to prevent the survivability to go through the roof.

Two more issues on the PTS:
Burning Embers being changed into a HoT is laughably broken, there is no way this should ever make it to the live server. Magdk has always been built around being forced to fight for their heals, they had to stay in a fight to get their powerlash heals, to recast their burning embers to get the heal early or to heal themselves by using Draw Essence. The addition of Cauterize and Coagulating blood are more than enough to allow magdks to have healing even when they don't face an opponent atm.

Power Bash and morphs counting as Bash damage. I totally get where the idea came from but it is unbalanced as heck. You can easily stack bash damage via bash glyphs, deadlands demolisher and other bash sets. This is totally fine on the live server, however the new interaction with a skill that has the regular meele spammable TT is too much, on non optimised build you can easily reach Power Slam tooltips of 15k without even having the 33% extra damage.
This interaction with additional bash damage for Power Bash should be removed, Power Bash and it's morphs should retain the function of bash to interrupt targets channeling a skill.


I'm confident that tackling all these issues will significantly improve PvP balance and saves us from another unbalanced patch.

Good points you put here in an organized and reasoned way.
Some classes in my opinion were too strong which are Magplar and Magdk. I expected a nerf but Magkdk got a buff, it seems to me that whoever makes such changes hasn't tried PVP currently.

VarisVaris wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

LordeGian wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

The balance in PvP currently isn't really optimal on the live servers right now, some abilities, set and mechanics are clearly overperforming and should be addressed before making things even worse with the upcoming changes.


Skills

Intensive Mender

This skill offers healing way beyond other HoTs while being really cheap and also allows for insane crosshealing capabilities. The easy way out is simply reducing the heal because right now it's simply too strong, this should be done by reducing the overall heal by 25% but increase the duration to 12 seconds this keeps the skill rather cheap but prevents it from basically being a burst heal every time it heals you

Living Dark

This skill has been indirectly buffed to mindbogglingly high healing numbers with the changes to how people can stack spelldamage, but even a build that doesn't fully builds into stacking damage gets more healing out of this ability than other Hots can provide, additionally the way it works makes this heal even better as it always heals you when you take damage and therefore acts as a direct reduction to the damage you take. Depending on who you fight (read this as anything that isn't a full damage build) this ability will keep you alive infinitely with no chance for the enemy to ever kill you, it might even outheal the damage from the skills you're eating.
This ability should retain it's function but have it's healing potential against single targets reduced significantly. Having 5k hps in duels vs another templar from a single skill is just laughable.
Therefore the heal should still have a 500ms cooldown but can only be procced by each target every 2 seconds.
This makes it a great option when fighting outnumbered but prevents it from turning templars into unkillable damage absorbing blobs of doom

Bombard

This skill provides way too much bang for its buck, not only does it deal great damage while being undodgeable, it also comes with a root that you can refresh over and over again on targets who can't break the root in the first place, no other skill offers this much utility by chewing through the enemy's stamina while also helping ball groups to kite and keep people locked in places to nuke them afterwards.
This skill should lose its root and rather gain something else and AoE Root with high damage simply isn't balanced and it won't ever be even if you remove the snare it also offers like you did in Patch v7.3.0

Radiating Regen

This is the biggest offenders when it comes to high survivability of ballgroups and groups in general, this skill is so powerful that the viability of a certain spec instantly increases when it can slot this ability, this goes so far that stamsorc in smallscale runs bow+resto now
This ability has to have it's crosshealing capabilities nerfed significantly, make it so that you can only have 2 Radiating regen active on you (like vigor before it was changed to a single target heal) at any given moment, this way it won't hurt PvE but it will help PvP significantly

Sets
Caluurion's Legacy

This set offers too much burst especially when using it on NB which guarantees a hit in conjunction with cloak, with it being able to crit it's damage numbers went through the roof and now once again allows people to have oneshot gank builds with little to no counterplay depending on how good or bad performance is and if you break-free button is responsive.
The amount of burst this set offers is simply too much and should be split into a direct damage and dot portion to make this set less bursty but keeps it's damage consistent overall.

Draurgkin

This set allows people to achieve burst and pressure numbers that simply shouldn't be reachable with how many different damage instances one can squeeze into those 6 seconds it provides way too much damage compared to other sets.
This set only working against a single target doesn't work as enough of a drawback as you can use this set to obliterate this target, in a situation where you only face a single opponent there is no set that comes even close to the power Draugrkin offers.

Ironblood

This set offers too much survivability while the drawback isn't anywhere near enough to keep this set in check, additionally the potential uptime of the set is really high (66%)
The cooldown of this set should be increased to 25 seconds up from 15 seconds in order to give people a slight chance of killing someone using this set

Other issues
Undeath and CPs

Please read this post as it describes the issue more detailed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510100#Comment_7510100

Harmony

This jewelry trait allows people to generate incredible burst that's not tied to the global cooldown. These synergies often provide more damage than ultimates while only having a 20 seconds cooldown per person. Due to Synergies being able to be stacked this gives groups way more power than they should have access to.
This Trait should be reworked completely. Synergies are fine the way they are without anything buffing them

Crossheals in general

Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The upcoming changes that we can currently test on the PTS will further worsen balance.
Hybridization of almost any skills will result in an unhealthy meta where only a single build for each Class will be viable, many skills will become worthless as they won't find their way onto bars as the competition just became way harder.
The potential for gamebreaking combinations has increased significantly, especially when it comes to healing and survivability.
Those changes will have such a strong impact on the meta that it is insanity to push this in one go.
All healing abilities should retain the old scaling in order to prevent Specs to merge completely and also to prevent the survivability to go through the roof.

Two more issues on the PTS:
Burning Embers being changed into a HoT is laughably broken, there is no way this should ever make it to the live server. Magdk has always been built around being forced to fight for their heals, they had to stay in a fight to get their powerlash heals, to recast their burning embers to get the heal early or to heal themselves by using Draw Essence. The addition of Cauterize and Coagulating blood are more than enough to allow magdks to have healing even when they don't face an opponent atm.

Power Bash and morphs counting as Bash damage. I totally get where the idea came from but it is unbalanced as heck. You can easily stack bash damage via bash glyphs, deadlands demolisher and other bash sets. This is totally fine on the live server, however the new interaction with a skill that has the regular meele spammable TT is too much, on non optimised build you can easily reach Power Slam tooltips of 15k without even having the 33% extra damage.
This interaction with additional bash damage for Power Bash should be removed, Power Bash and it's morphs should retain the function of bash to interrupt targets channeling a skill.


I'm confident that tackling all these issues will significantly improve PvP balance and saves us from another unbalanced patch.

Good points you put here in an organized and reasoned way.
Some classes in my opinion were too strong which are Magplar and Magdk. I expected a nerf but Magkdk got a buff, it seems to me that whoever makes such changes hasn't tried PVP currently.

It's not necessarily a buff that DK got. Burning Embers if it was left to run turned into a massive burst heal that could come multiple times out of the blue, or after reapplication of the ability, leading to them surviving some insanely brutal things. This change removes the burstyness of the Burning Embers heal and makes it a trickle heal.

Another thing to realize is that bursty heal injection could crit making a mag DK able to full heal instantly while still attacking.

Have you been on pts? Because I genuinely have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that the embers change is balanced yet alone a nerf. Magdk on pts is incredibly overperforming and there is no way for you to kill one if they don't go to the toilet during your fight unless you are a magdk aswell and just counter cheese them.

Embers will become even more powerful in OW when you can just apply the dot to everyone around you for even more constant healing while whip+coag+shattering+cauterize each provide burst heals with 8k+ healing per instance.

The embers change is one of the most problematic changes we've seen this patch and that's saying something with all the imbalance Zos has created with their Hybridization.

If magDK was already a problem before imagine now. In a situation where magDK in PVP that already has an extremely strong instant heal with Coagulation, fighting 3 enemies, each providing an overtime heal of 100% of the damage of Burning Embers, this is broken too much, just invest in high damage and you automatically gain immense survivability.

katorga

LordeGian wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

The balance in PvP currently isn't really optimal on the live servers right now, some abilities, set and mechanics are clearly overperforming and should be addressed before making things even worse with the upcoming changes.


Skills

Intensive Mender

This skill offers healing way beyond other HoTs while being really cheap and also allows for insane crosshealing capabilities. The easy way out is simply reducing the heal because right now it's simply too strong, this should be done by reducing the overall heal by 25% but increase the duration to 12 seconds this keeps the skill rather cheap but prevents it from basically being a burst heal every time it heals you

Living Dark

This skill has been indirectly buffed to mindbogglingly high healing numbers with the changes to how people can stack spelldamage, but even a build that doesn't fully builds into stacking damage gets more healing out of this ability than other Hots can provide, additionally the way it works makes this heal even better as it always heals you when you take damage and therefore acts as a direct reduction to the damage you take. Depending on who you fight (read this as anything that isn't a full damage build) this ability will keep you alive infinitely with no chance for the enemy to ever kill you, it might even outheal the damage from the skills you're eating.
This ability should retain it's function but have it's healing potential against single targets reduced significantly. Having 5k hps in duels vs another templar from a single skill is just laughable.
Therefore the heal should still have a 500ms cooldown but can only be procced by each target every 2 seconds.
This makes it a great option when fighting outnumbered but prevents it from turning templars into unkillable damage absorbing blobs of doom

Bombard

This skill provides way too much bang for its buck, not only does it deal great damage while being undodgeable, it also comes with a root that you can refresh over and over again on targets who can't break the root in the first place, no other skill offers this much utility by chewing through the enemy's stamina while also helping ball groups to kite and keep people locked in places to nuke them afterwards.
This skill should lose its root and rather gain something else and AoE Root with high damage simply isn't balanced and it won't ever be even if you remove the snare it also offers like you did in Patch v7.3.0

Radiating Regen

This is the biggest offenders when it comes to high survivability of ballgroups and groups in general, this skill is so powerful that the viability of a certain spec instantly increases when it can slot this ability, this goes so far that stamsorc in smallscale runs bow+resto now
This ability has to have it's crosshealing capabilities nerfed significantly, make it so that you can only have 2 Radiating regen active on you (like vigor before it was changed to a single target heal) at any given moment, this way it won't hurt PvE but it will help PvP significantly

Sets
Caluurion's Legacy

This set offers too much burst especially when using it on NB which guarantees a hit in conjunction with cloak, with it being able to crit it's damage numbers went through the roof and now once again allows people to have oneshot gank builds with little to no counterplay depending on how good or bad performance is and if you break-free button is responsive.
The amount of burst this set offers is simply too much and should be split into a direct damage and dot portion to make this set less bursty but keeps it's damage consistent overall.

Draurgkin

This set allows people to achieve burst and pressure numbers that simply shouldn't be reachable with how many different damage instances one can squeeze into those 6 seconds it provides way too much damage compared to other sets.
This set only working against a single target doesn't work as enough of a drawback as you can use this set to obliterate this target, in a situation where you only face a single opponent there is no set that comes even close to the power Draugrkin offers.

Ironblood

This set offers too much survivability while the drawback isn't anywhere near enough to keep this set in check, additionally the potential uptime of the set is really high (66%)
The cooldown of this set should be increased to 25 seconds up from 15 seconds in order to give people a slight chance of killing someone using this set

Other issues
Undeath and CPs

Please read this post as it describes the issue more detailed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510100#Comment_7510100

Harmony

This jewelry trait allows people to generate incredible burst that's not tied to the global cooldown. These synergies often provide more damage than ultimates while only having a 20 seconds cooldown per person. Due to Synergies being able to be stacked this gives groups way more power than they should have access to.
This Trait should be reworked completely. Synergies are fine the way they are without anything buffing them

Crossheals in general

Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The upcoming changes that we can currently test on the PTS will further worsen balance.
Hybridization of almost any skills will result in an unhealthy meta where only a single build for each Class will be viable, many skills will become worthless as they won't find their way onto bars as the competition just became way harder.
The potential for gamebreaking combinations has increased significantly, especially when it comes to healing and survivability.
Those changes will have such a strong impact on the meta that it is insanity to push this in one go.
All healing abilities should retain the old scaling in order to prevent Specs to merge completely and also to prevent the survivability to go through the roof.

Two more issues on the PTS:
Burning Embers being changed into a HoT is laughably broken, there is no way this should ever make it to the live server. Magdk has always been built around being forced to fight for their heals, they had to stay in a fight to get their powerlash heals, to recast their burning embers to get the heal early or to heal themselves by using Draw Essence. The addition of Cauterize and Coagulating blood are more than enough to allow magdks to have healing even when they don't face an opponent atm.

Power Bash and morphs counting as Bash damage. I totally get where the idea came from but it is unbalanced as heck. You can easily stack bash damage via bash glyphs, deadlands demolisher and other bash sets. This is totally fine on the live server, however the new interaction with a skill that has the regular meele spammable TT is too much, on non optimised build you can easily reach Power Slam tooltips of 15k without even having the 33% extra damage.
This interaction with additional bash damage for Power Bash should be removed, Power Bash and it's morphs should retain the function of bash to interrupt targets channeling a skill.


I'm confident that tackling all these issues will significantly improve PvP balance and saves us from another unbalanced patch.

Good points you put here in an organized and reasoned way.
Some classes in my opinion were too strong which are Magplar and Magdk. I expected a nerf but Magkdk got a buff, it seems to me that whoever makes such changes hasn't tried PVP currently.

VarisVaris wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

LordeGian wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

The balance in PvP currently isn't really optimal on the live servers right now, some abilities, set and mechanics are clearly overperforming and should be addressed before making things even worse with the upcoming changes.


Skills

Intensive Mender

This skill offers healing way beyond other HoTs while being really cheap and also allows for insane crosshealing capabilities. The easy way out is simply reducing the heal because right now it's simply too strong, this should be done by reducing the overall heal by 25% but increase the duration to 12 seconds this keeps the skill rather cheap but prevents it from basically being a burst heal every time it heals you

Living Dark

This skill has been indirectly buffed to mindbogglingly high healing numbers with the changes to how people can stack spelldamage, but even a build that doesn't fully builds into stacking damage gets more healing out of this ability than other Hots can provide, additionally the way it works makes this heal even better as it always heals you when you take damage and therefore acts as a direct reduction to the damage you take. Depending on who you fight (read this as anything that isn't a full damage build) this ability will keep you alive infinitely with no chance for the enemy to ever kill you, it might even outheal the damage from the skills you're eating.
This ability should retain it's function but have it's healing potential against single targets reduced significantly. Having 5k hps in duels vs another templar from a single skill is just laughable.
Therefore the heal should still have a 500ms cooldown but can only be procced by each target every 2 seconds.
This makes it a great option when fighting outnumbered but prevents it from turning templars into unkillable damage absorbing blobs of doom

Bombard

This skill provides way too much bang for its buck, not only does it deal great damage while being undodgeable, it also comes with a root that you can refresh over and over again on targets who can't break the root in the first place, no other skill offers this much utility by chewing through the enemy's stamina while also helping ball groups to kite and keep people locked in places to nuke them afterwards.
This skill should lose its root and rather gain something else and AoE Root with high damage simply isn't balanced and it won't ever be even if you remove the snare it also offers like you did in Patch v7.3.0

Radiating Regen

This is the biggest offenders when it comes to high survivability of ballgroups and groups in general, this skill is so powerful that the viability of a certain spec instantly increases when it can slot this ability, this goes so far that stamsorc in smallscale runs bow+resto now
This ability has to have it's crosshealing capabilities nerfed significantly, make it so that you can only have 2 Radiating regen active on you (like vigor before it was changed to a single target heal) at any given moment, this way it won't hurt PvE but it will help PvP significantly

Sets
Caluurion's Legacy

This set offers too much burst especially when using it on NB which guarantees a hit in conjunction with cloak, with it being able to crit it's damage numbers went through the roof and now once again allows people to have oneshot gank builds with little to no counterplay depending on how good or bad performance is and if you break-free button is responsive.
The amount of burst this set offers is simply too much and should be split into a direct damage and dot portion to make this set less bursty but keeps it's damage consistent overall.

Draurgkin

This set allows people to achieve burst and pressure numbers that simply shouldn't be reachable with how many different damage instances one can squeeze into those 6 seconds it provides way too much damage compared to other sets.
This set only working against a single target doesn't work as enough of a drawback as you can use this set to obliterate this target, in a situation where you only face a single opponent there is no set that comes even close to the power Draugrkin offers.

Ironblood

This set offers too much survivability while the drawback isn't anywhere near enough to keep this set in check, additionally the potential uptime of the set is really high (66%)
The cooldown of this set should be increased to 25 seconds up from 15 seconds in order to give people a slight chance of killing someone using this set

Other issues
Undeath and CPs

Please read this post as it describes the issue more detailed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510100#Comment_7510100

Harmony

This jewelry trait allows people to generate incredible burst that's not tied to the global cooldown. These synergies often provide more damage than ultimates while only having a 20 seconds cooldown per person. Due to Synergies being able to be stacked this gives groups way more power than they should have access to.
This Trait should be reworked completely. Synergies are fine the way they are without anything buffing them

Crossheals in general

Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The upcoming changes that we can currently test on the PTS will further worsen balance.
Hybridization of almost any skills will result in an unhealthy meta where only a single build for each Class will be viable, many skills will become worthless as they won't find their way onto bars as the competition just became way harder.
The potential for gamebreaking combinations has increased significantly, especially when it comes to healing and survivability.
Those changes will have such a strong impact on the meta that it is insanity to push this in one go.
All healing abilities should retain the old scaling in order to prevent Specs to merge completely and also to prevent the survivability to go through the roof.

Two more issues on the PTS:
Burning Embers being changed into a HoT is laughably broken, there is no way this should ever make it to the live server. Magdk has always been built around being forced to fight for their heals, they had to stay in a fight to get their powerlash heals, to recast their burning embers to get the heal early or to heal themselves by using Draw Essence. The addition of Cauterize and Coagulating blood are more than enough to allow magdks to have healing even when they don't face an opponent atm.

Power Bash and morphs counting as Bash damage. I totally get where the idea came from but it is unbalanced as heck. You can easily stack bash damage via bash glyphs, deadlands demolisher and other bash sets. This is totally fine on the live server, however the new interaction with a skill that has the regular meele spammable TT is too much, on non optimised build you can easily reach Power Slam tooltips of 15k without even having the 33% extra damage.
This interaction with additional bash damage for Power Bash should be removed, Power Bash and it's morphs should retain the function of bash to interrupt targets channeling a skill.


I'm confident that tackling all these issues will significantly improve PvP balance and saves us from another unbalanced patch.

Good points you put here in an organized and reasoned way.
Some classes in my opinion were too strong which are Magplar and Magdk. I expected a nerf but Magkdk got a buff, it seems to me that whoever makes such changes hasn't tried PVP currently.

It's not necessarily a buff that DK got. Burning Embers if it was left to run turned into a massive burst heal that could come multiple times out of the blue, or after reapplication of the ability, leading to them surviving some insanely brutal things. This change removes the burstyness of the Burning Embers heal and makes it a trickle heal.

Another thing to realize is that bursty heal injection could crit making a mag DK able to full heal instantly while still attacking.

Have you been on pts? Because I genuinely have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that the embers change is balanced yet alone a nerf. Magdk on pts is incredibly overperforming and there is no way for you to kill one if they don't go to the toilet during your fight unless you are a magdk aswell and just counter cheese them.

Embers will become even more powerful in OW when you can just apply the dot to everyone around you for even more constant healing while whip+coag+shattering+cauterize each provide burst heals with 8k+ healing per instance.

The embers change is one of the most problematic changes we've seen this patch and that's saying something with all the imbalance Zos has created with their Hybridization.

If magDK was already a problem before imagine now. In a situation where magDK in PVP that already has an extremely strong instant heal with Coagulation, fighting 3 enemies, each providing an overtime heal of 100% of the damage of Burning Embers, this is broken too much, just invest in high damage and you automatically gain immense survivability.

A DK could conceivably apply to 10 targets over 10 GCDs, resulting in a 1000% bonus to the skills healing. There is no target cap like Necro Scythe and other skills, and the heals do not scale off player health like other tanking oriented self heals.

That is broken in PVE. It is not just a problem in PVP.

RandomKodiak

Please ZoS do something for Stam DKs, the proposed changes provide at least minor buffs and variety to all classes and specs except DKs. Stam DKs were already bottom of the barrel for dps and these changes make it so there is no point other than RPing for them

CitrumTheGod

Why do magblades provide no benefit to mag groups and have a really complicated rotation that ping can really affect, yet they are one of the worst dps classes right now for PvE? It just doesn't make sense where they are at.

kookster

So if hybridization is the goal. Why is Power of the light scaling with only weapon damage and purifying light scaling with spell damage. As a magplar I would love to use the pen morph, and on my stamplar I would love to use the heal morph.

nwilliams2107b16_ESO

kookster wrote: »

I feel like crystal fragments should have the requirement for its proc changed to no longer require casting a magicka ability, but just casting a ability, otherwise the use of it on stam characters will still remain 0 likely.

Devs please make this so, would love to use this on my Stam Sorc, as you've not added Battle Mage class, this would complete my fantasy, thanks.

nihoumab14_ESO

VarisVaris wrote: »

nihoumab14_ESO wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

Crossheals in general
]Although I have touched on this a little bit above already by mentioning Intensive mender and radiating regen, I want to emphasize once more that crosshealing in its current iteration is too powerful and often results in fights being endless stalemates that can only be ended by dropping multiple ultimates on a single person because otherwise they'll never die.
This also means that the time between ult drops won't help you make any progress which makes PvP feel very frustrating. It's a cycle of tanking each other's damage and then praying that your ult drop every 2 minutes gets you a kill.
There is no perfect fix for this issue as crossheals scale with the amounts of players involved in a fight.

This is why I propose a new healing reduction added to battle spirit that directly targets crossheals. "Any healing you receive from other players is reduced by X%" in a first iteration it should be tested with a 15% reduction as this change could have big impact on how PvP plays

The real solution is to make heals intended to be self heals rely on max health to determine their strength (though perhaps some should remain that don't scale off max health, and should be adjusted accordingly), and heals intended to heal other people rely on stats like +healing % done (and perhaps a separate +healing crit% chance), so that those who would heal need to properly invest into doing that, instead of having heals scale off of the ostensibly damage oriented weapon/spell damage.

This would be just as unhealthy for PvP as the current situation is.
We had strong HP scaling heals in the past with arctic Blast or WW heal and the results were that people would just build for 40k HP have great heals and due to HP being easily stackable they also didn't give up much damage while their survivability increased significantly.

Having high health and high heals means you can't die.

The way how healing works at its core is fine and self heals need to be sufficient to keep you alive because that's what allows people to not be forced to run a healer in order to survive.
Healing has become an issue due to constant power creep delivered by ZOS through many ways be it direct buffs to skills, the free 1k wpn/spell damage when they changed CP, the armor/light attack hybridization allowing magicka specs to stack spelldamage very easily along with new sets you can use.


That's why having your self heals scale with HP is a very bad idea for PvP.

Right now though you can build for survivability, damage, and strong healing. Where's the trade off? You are right in that making self heals only off max health may not be the right solution, but self healing on high damage characters is the problem. Hybridization of roles should be a good thing for the health of a game, but only if there are tradeoffs associated with it. Right now there's not any tradeoffs. Require specialization into healing. That doesn't mean self healing should disappear entirely, but you should have to invest more than a skill slot into having competetive self healing.

That being said, I do think healing across the board needs to be toned down, including cross healing, but someone who builds specifically to be a healer shouldn't lose as much healing as someone who doesn't build specifically to be a healer and just has radiating Regen on their back bar. Heals like that shouldn't be scaling off the same stats as damage regardless.

xylena_lazarow

Please revert the change to Infiltrator/Unweaver/ND and instead adjust it in a way that only affects PvP, there is no reason to destroy niche PvE builds, especially when those builds are also relied on by players with physical disabilities.

McTaterskins

nihoumab14_ESO wrote: »

That being said, I do think healing across the board needs to be toned down, including cross healing, but someone who builds specifically to be a healer shouldn't lose as much healing as someone who doesn't build specifically to be a healer and just has radiating Regen on their back bar. Heals like that shouldn't be scaling off the same stats as damage regardless.

Agreed.

Healing across the board needs to be toned down and pushed in a direction as to where spec'ing as a healer matters.

This is in regard to both pve and pvp.

Adjustments to coefficients, more access to + healing, adjustments to CP etc. should all be looked at overall. Things like radiating regeneration stacking should be addressed. There's more than one healing skill in the game and in that weapon line alone. Healing in this game, with the attempted dynamic combat it has, should not be a powerful 'fire and forget' afterthought.

It shouldn't take multiple people to bring down one of my brawler type characters in pvp because I'm half competent, tanky, and have a couple heals slotted. I shouldn't be able to run a Vet DLC dungeon with 3 dps because I have absolutely no fear of anything on my tanks due to their mitigation and self healing power, which are both problems in pve and pvp.

The game's combat has been heading in a steady direction of being comprised of zero threat, zero difficulty, zero skill requirement, zero variety, and a plethora of stalemates.

kookster

McTaterskins wrote: »

nihoumab14_ESO wrote: »

That being said, I do think healing across the board needs to be toned down, including cross healing, but someone who builds specifically to be a healer shouldn't lose as much healing as someone who doesn't build specifically to be a healer and just has radiating Regen on their back bar. Heals like that shouldn't be scaling off the same stats as damage regardless.

Agreed.

Healing across the board needs to be toned down and pushed in a direction as to where spec'ing as a healer matters.

This is in regard to both pve and pvp.

Adjustments to coefficients, more access to + healing, adjustments to CP etc. should all be looked at overall. Things like radiating regeneration stacking should be addressed. There's more than one healing skill in the game and in that weapon line alone. Healing in this game, with the attempted dynamic combat it has, should not be a powerful 'fire and forget' afterthought.

It shouldn't take multiple people to bring down one of my brawler type characters in pvp because I'm half competent, tanky, and have a couple heals slotted. I shouldn't be able to run a Vet DLC dungeon with 3 dps because I have absolutely no fear of anything on my tanks due to their mitigation and self healing power, which are both problems in pve and pvp.

The game's combat has been heading in a steady direction of being comprised of zero threat, zero difficulty, zero skill requirement, zero variety, and a plethora of stalemates.

The problem with doing that is this would then GREATLY boost classes that have escapes IE nightblades with cloak and shade, as well as sorc with streak. They can build fully into damage hit like a train and leave. Making every other class that cant escape have to split their damage and healing essentially nerfing them against just those classes.

katorga

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Please ZoS do something for Stam DKs, the proposed changes provide at least minor buffs and variety to all classes and specs except DKs. Stam DKs were already bottom of the barrel for dps and these changes make it so there is no point other than RPing for them

Next patch there no are more Stam-classname or mag-classname. Damage is simply what status effect it applies and what resource does it cost.

Using sorc as an example (because it is the one I have seen the most build ideas, parses for), a mag sorc using the stamina skill bound armaments sees a damage boost AND a sustain boost because it is off loading part of its rotation to a alternate stat pool and bound armaments does more damage than any magicka skill you might use in its place.

McTaterskins

kookster wrote: »

The problem with doing that is this would then GREATLY boost classes that have escapes IE nightblades with cloak and shade, as well as sorc with streak. They can build fully into damage hit like a train and leave. Making every other class that cant escape have to split their damage and healing essentially nerfing them against just those classes.

How much of that problem persists when they can't heal themselves to full in an instant? If they're caught, they still fold like paper anyway. Unless it's a double shield sorc. But they sacrifice for that.

Otherwise, the issue there is the easy access to sustain. - Sustain is also currently too high.

If someone is spec'd to tank, they should be able to tank. If someone is spec'd to sustain escaping, they should be escaping. If someone is spec'd for healing, they then should have strong heals. If someone goes glass cannon? They should be a glass cannon.

People should not be able to do all-in-one. I'd accept any combination of the 2 with the secondary not being as strong as the primary, if all things were equal and balanced accordingly. But; not 3-4 as persists in the current game.

Same goes for PvE. Beyond calling figuring out muscle memory for your "rotation", holding block, or hitting the same 1-2 heal buttons and debuff buttons in sequences, "Skill", there is no actual dynamic gameplay required.

Ascarl

rauyran wrote: »

There is another thread on this but in case developers are only paying attention to the official feedback thread I'll repeat it here.

Please revert the changes to Undaunted Infiltrator and Undaunted Unweaver. The proposed change to spell/weapon damage makes these sets unviable compared to the current versions. Please find another way to rebalance them for PVP.

These sets are a very popular combination for lightning staff heavy attack builds used in PVE and solo play, particularly by people with low dexterity or mobility problems that can't perform more complex rotations. The balance for PVE is just about right: enough damage to allow harder content to be tackled without being overpowered.

Fully agree. While the slogan is "play as you like" the reality is "adopt to ligh attack weave or be gimped".

Granted there is much freedom in ESO except everything is centered around light attack weave. IMHO the game should be more open to other playstyles while this patch results in the opposite.

Entegre

Hello, can Templar’s puncturing sweep/biting jabs be somehow diluted? Currently there are so many major buffs and auxiliary bonuses attached to one skill, it is impossible to do anything outside this skill without harming the class potential.

Major brutality/sorcery (used to be savagery) (stamina)
Minor protection for activating
Burning light passive to damage enemies
1/3 damage as AoE
8 meter ranged cone (longer than all melee attacks)
10% crit damage increase passively
Heal for damage done (magicka)
40% movement speed snare on enemy

Due to these buffs it is very hard to not to use this skill. However, many other Templar skills could be used for these bonuses.

Lapin_Logic

Psijiic Imbue Weapon (+morphs) and Sorcerer Crystal Weapon are too unreliable compared to other spammables, they need a tweak, below are some fixes in line with other skills/passives/Procs.

They should either.
1. Make imbue/crushing/ crystal weapon behave like Blastbones where you Can't recast until you consume or it expires
2. make them a toggle so each of your light and heavies consumes x stamina/ magicka cost each time you perform a Light or heavy and performing the skill automatically
3. make the Crushing/crystal weapon SKILL key force your character to perform the Light attack associated with it, i.e make it into a spammable skill as it is supposed to be.

Why is my character standing around spam casting Crushing weapon etc but doing ZERO DPS because the Light attack weave isn't actually firing off due to lag/CC/server not seeing that my character is pointing directly at a enemy and their health bar is in my focus.

IronWooshu

renne wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

renne wrote: »

These threads need to be split between PvP and PvE, since all I'm seeing in this thread is complaints about how stuff effects PvP.

Because PvPers will have to deal with the broken stuff while PVErs are just gonna enjoy the power creep and get some easy trifecta runs in.

Except how PvE stuff gets nerfed through the floor because PvPers boohoo about X, Y and Z.

PVPers didn't get Crit damage nerfed.

MindOfTheSwarm

Wild Guardian needs buffing as Eternal Guardian deals more damage in every build.

Perhaps give it a permanent execute status on all its attacks ie: The bear deal up to 50% more damage on enemies below 100% health. To help it compete with Eternal Guardian.
If it doesn’t get buffed it’s not worth using.

Tannus15

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Wild Guardian needs buffing as Eternal Guardian deals more damage in every build.

Perhaps give it a permanent execute status on all its attacks ie: The bear deal up to 50% more damage on enemies below 100% health. To help it compete with Eternal Guardian.
If it doesn’t get buffed it’s not worth using.

it needs a functionality change otherwise you're just swapping bear. if you make wild guardian stronger then people will only run that and never use eternal guardian. they have to somehow be functionally different, like the 2 storm atro's, one is aoe and one is single target.

CP5

Tannus15 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Wild Guardian needs buffing as Eternal Guardian deals more damage in every build.

Perhaps give it a permanent execute status on all its attacks ie: The bear deal up to 50% more damage on enemies below 100% health. To help it compete with Eternal Guardian.
If it doesn’t get buffed it’s not worth using.

it needs a functionality change otherwise you're just swapping bear. if you make wild guardian stronger then people will only run that and never use eternal guardian. they have to somehow be functionally different, like the 2 storm atro's, one is aoe and one is single target.

The idea's always stuck with me that they could give the bear a frost cloak. Thematic, bridges between animals and frost, and helps differ the two morphs.