I wish I could give multiple "Agrees" with this post. Seriously.
Whenever I see an update and zos states that it's something players have been requesting for a long time, I think.... Who? Who has requested this? Not me for sure. I don't remember being asked my opinion on (insert random change). I also don't think the vocal members of the forums actually amount to a significant portion of the population so that what they ask for is actually what the community wants.
I see people on my guilds saying they'd want to post on the forums but don't have an account here so they can't, and ask someone who does. I can probably count with the fingers of one hand the names from my guilds who also regularly appear in the forums. And I'm on several 400+ guilds.
And this last change with the account-wide achievements? I can safely say not one person in my endgame guild finds this change good, or welcome. And I'm talking about people who have pretty much the game completed. The common arguments are:
"What's the point of having more than one character now?"
"Why should I keep playing now, after having completed every achievement in the game? I am certainly not going to start a second character now or join other prog groups since it will literally have no meaning."
"I'm afraid of logging into my alts now, since a lot of achievements may now be permanently registered as being first unlocked by "MuleMaster" instead of my main." (Particularly those like Black Market Mogul and the such).
"This is probably going to break the game so badly, I'll take a couple of weeks break from ESO just so I don't risk losing anything..."
Personally, I abhor this idea. I enjoyed hunting for monster trophies on my alts. I enjoyed fishing on my alts. Or clearing every delve on a map, or every skyshard... I got a little bit of happy chemicals each time that flag popped up for ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE. Now I'll seldom see it again. All the time I've spent chasing that high will mean nothing. Since the announcement dropped, I find myself logging in and just forcing myself to do something random, or just wander around with not much will to work on anything. Trying to convince myself that deep down, it may not be that bad. Then look at my achievement lists and realize I'm just lying to myself. There's zero incentive to log into my templar. Or my sorc. Or my necro. Or my warden...... Why should I anyway? Nothing they have now will mean anything in a few weeks, neither will there be an interest in chasing achievements on them that my main already has because.... Oh yeah. They won't even be achievements anymore!
Should have started by consolidating those achievements that are actually the reason why people might want this, such as trifectas, instead of loading them all into the same bag. Then depending on reception, work from there. But for the love of Talos ask the players, not just scan the forums for what's being whined about before making this sort of change. Somehow, I am finding it extremely hard to accept that checking a database for achievements is such a huge burden that performance will suddenly be that much better when this change drops.
I did not want this, I did not ask for this, and this will severely hinder my ability to enjoy the game and keep coming back.
(Have you noticed how people seem so much more interested/troubled with the achievement change than with the whole new chapter and its card game gimmick? Makes a person think.)
Copying over my PTS feedback so everyone can see what is coming with this update, and what a mess it is:
Dear ZOS,
Elder Scrolls has always been an RPG first and foremost. The single player games were not just games to beat, they provided a world you could immerse into, where you could suspend your disbelief and actually feel like a person in that world trying to save it from whatever danger threatened Nirn. ESO had a rocky beginning, but over time, ZOS, you got it right, and it really felt like an Elder Scrolls game. The best part about it was, I wasn't limited to just one character doing the story, I could create multiple characters and they all didn't have to do the same story. I have one character only, my woodelf Kesstryl, who completed Coldharbor and is the one I consider The Vestige. My other characters are heroes in other parts of the world. My Nord Reynild is the hero of Western Skyrim and Markath. My Argonian Speaks-With-Trees is the hero of Morrowind. My Altmer Malatunir, an Ayleid descendant, is the hero of Blackwood and the Deadlands. He also saved the souls of argonians and righted the wrongs of his ancestors in the Murkmire story. My Khajiit Maila is a master thief. My Breton Luceya is a lawful good healer hired by adventurers to keep them safe through evil places (basically my dungeon and trials healer). My Dunmer Varla helped Sotha Sil to save Clockwork City.
Each character played through different content because that was their story. When I replay content, sometimes I'll apply the costume of the first character and pretend it's that character going through it again. I know that's weird, but in my mind each of these stories belongs to one character, and any others repeating them are sort of "dreaming" the story of that character. My characters are not extensions of me the player, they're people living in different places in Tamriel rising to the occasion. I don't want to be reminded that they are just tools I'm using to play a game. I want them to remain individual people in Tamriel with their own histories and stories, and their own achievements and tracking. I don't want to lose this. I don't want to look at a map in a place Reynild has never been to and see it already explored because Kesstryl was already there. I don't want my healer Luceya to have NPCs respond to her as if she's a master thief because Maila put that achievement on my account. I don't want to lose my second chance at talking with Count Ravenwatch at the end of the Markath story for his final thoughts and be welcomed into House Ravenwatch on a character playing through the story again because Reynild was the first to have spoken to him and gotten the achievement. I don't want NPCs in Western Skyrim to respond to Varla, who's never been there, as if she is the one who saved them and not Reynild. I don't want Reynild to be thanked for stopping the Planemeld when it was Kesstryl who did that. Do you see what this mess is doing to my characters? Do you see how it's ruining the game for me? How long, ZOS, do you think people like me will be able to stand this kind of ruin before we simply walk away and don't log in again?
Fine, ZOS, you want to make ESO like every other MMO out there. How about copying what World of Warcraft did, the most successful MMO ever, which was to implement Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character achievements so both existed simultaneously? Why not that? Keep NPCs and quests tied to the character data so the account data doesn't break immersion for my individual characters? Let me track my individual character achievements, and even get the ding message when that character accomplishes something for the first time, just like WoW has. You want to be like other games, but you are ruining what makes an Elder Scrolls game unique, which is that it's built on a solid RPG foundation. RPGs don't merge characters into an amalgamation and have the world treat all alts as if they all did the same thing. It would cease being an RPG and simply be a game to beat once, and then move on to something else. You want people to just beat ESO once and then move on because they achieved it all? Is this a game to beat or an RPG? Is this beautiful and immersive world simply there to be a background to score pushing and beating the system? It's not there to create characters that are part of it and that have stories in it as they work along side some of the best NPCs you ever created that are wonderfully voice acted? You want players to think of their characters as simple tools that you really only need one of because individually they don't exist, only the player exists and that's all that matters? You have no idea how bad this is. Please listen to us and put off the Account Wide Achievement update until you can fix this properly. Otherwise, you could easily save money by firing all the voice actors and writers and just get rid of quests and just make more dungeons and trials and PvP and call it a day. Change the name from Elder Scrolls to something else while you're at it, it will lose its soul as an Elder Scrolls game. Gutting characters is the first step towards that.
and my follow up comment to today's article:
Dear ZOS
Well, since this is a done deal, let me add more feedback. ZOS, you had weeks of internal testing to figure out where achievements would affect quests and how NPCs react to our characters. From the bugs seen with quests and NPC reactions to alts who've never done the story lines in those zones, I can't believe you didn't fix these obvious issues BEFORE rolling it to PTS. The hamfisted way of merging achievements but not untying NPC reactions and quests from those achievements has ruined this game for those of us who come here for the stories and the role play. I've already made my case clear in a previous, quite long comment about how this destroys the way I play. The least you could have done was figure out a way to untie NPC reactions and quests from achievements and implement an alternative way to have those things tied to our characters.
Ok, you finally admitted this was for performance and not some magnanimous gift to players out of feedback and goodwill. I can accept losses to keep the game healthy. I will NEVER accept a shoddy implementation that destroys immersion and how the world of Tamriel reacts to my alts. If you can't (or won't) fix those things, I'm out. I'm done. I spent a lot of money over these 8 years on your game through subs, crown buying, invested a lot of that into housing, outfits, pets, etc. You will not have my money anymore. I don't pay to play a product that is so badly done that it destroys what the RPG world of Elder Scrolls is and makes it as immersive as the next generic MMOG that everyone plays through once and then forgets.
I've put up with a lot of changes I didn't like over the years from you. When nerfs wrecked my progression groups, I always thought to myself, well, there's always this beautiful world and great quests to play through again, they can't ever wreck role play. OMG I was so wrong! You managed to wreck that too. Good job on that, I don't think I've ever heard of a game that nerfed role play before. You get the achievement for that!
You have two weeks to fix this, that's how long my now cancelled sub lasts. I will not subject my characters to living in a world where NPCs have this amnesia plague about who they are and what they've done. This literally has caused such anxiety that I feel literally sick to my stomach about it. This game was my escape from the real world, a place to suspend my disbelief and live another life through my characters so I could feel better when I returned to the real world again. I'll have to find that somewhere else now, and trust me, I certainly will if this isn't fixed, and that place will get my hard earned money that I work hard for so I can escape for a little while in my off time. I get the sense that you don't take role players as seriously as score pushers and PvPers, or you would have fixed these things before letting this crap hit PTS. That disrespect also makes me sick to my stomach. Your game doesn't deserve the title of Elder Scrolls. I've never seen this IP so mismanaged.
Sylvermynx wrote: »@Kesstryl - could you link today's article please and thanks!
I would be surprised if ZoS were surprised at the largely negative reaction to the announcement to this chapter. I certainly have not bothered to pre-order it and if I get it then I'll get it cheap.
Maybe it's time to take another break, if we just had some exciting news about what we can expect in the future...As it is I can barely be bothered to log on, ideally I'd like to copy the main I used since beta into the character I use now, but I don't see ZoS doing that for some bizarre reason.
I think they do need to buck their ideas up, as my Gran would say. There are big games coming in the next few years, I don't care about LoL but I absolutely devour the lore, so I'm looking forward to news on Runeterra, keeping a weather eye out for Ashes as well.
VaranisArano wrote: »For anyone who's thinking, "I didn't want a card game. Why is ZOS making a card game?" keep in mind that this is something players have been asking for over years.
I did a quick forum search and found threads from at least 2015 to this month asking for table games, card games, and ESO's own version of a game like Gwent.
When it's playerbase asks for something that's deliverable, ZOS does eventually try to deliver.
So add card games onto the list that includes:
Battlegrounds
Housing
Alliance Change Tokens
Companions
Separate Imperial City Campaigns
Jewelry crafting
I didn't ask for a card game. But I know lots of people did, and I can be happy for them they got what they hoped for!
alberichtano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »For anyone who's thinking, "I didn't want a card game. Why is ZOS making a card game?" keep in mind that this is something players have been asking for over years.
I did a quick forum search and found threads from at least 2015 to this month asking for table games, card games, and ESO's own version of a game like Gwent.
When it's playerbase asks for something that's deliverable, ZOS does eventually try to deliver.
So add card games onto the list that includes:
Battlegrounds
Housing
Alliance Change Tokens
Companions
Separate Imperial City Campaigns
Jewelry crafting
I didn't ask for a card game. But I know lots of people did, and I can be happy for them they got what they hoped for!
I fear that people asked for Gwent, but will get all different kind of card game, where the best cards can only be purchased through crown-crates.
alberichtano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »For anyone who's thinking, "I didn't want a card game. Why is ZOS making a card game?" keep in mind that this is something players have been asking for over years.
I did a quick forum search and found threads from at least 2015 to this month asking for table games, card games, and ESO's own version of a game like Gwent.
When it's playerbase asks for something that's deliverable, ZOS does eventually try to deliver.
So add card games onto the list that includes:
Battlegrounds
Housing
Alliance Change Tokens
Companions
Separate Imperial City Campaigns
Jewelry crafting
I didn't ask for a card game. But I know lots of people did, and I can be happy for them they got what they hoped for!
I fear that people asked for Gwent, but will get all different kind of card game, where the best cards can only be purchased through crown-crates.