Battlegrounds still Deathmatch Only

slimwaffle

I play almost every day. I que random mode every single time. Since the que changes. I have only played a non death-match match just once.

nightstrike

mandricus wrote: »

the default can still be as of today (queue for random -> put a ticket in every bucket).

The default today is death match only

nightstrike

Macwynne67 wrote: »

Can we please fix the random bg's already. 20 random battle grounds all I got was death match.. I enjoy this game and the bg's were the iceing on the cake . I guess I will have to go back to DAOC

I have yet to get non death match since the change.

Darkmage1337

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

Any thoughts and comments to address this issue yet?

Many of us have not been able to play an objective-based gamemode in months despite queueing exclusively for Random.

Necrotech_Master

my thoughts on this issue is that they actually swung the dial too much in either direction and the original queue had the most choice

the original queue system being total random (for the daily bonus) + being able to individually queue for deathmatch, flag, or land games had the most choice

under that system it felt like random was more 50/50 chance to get DM vs other modes, but if i wanted to avoid DM then i could do that

if they have a problem with dividing the queue too much then just merge flag and land games into 1 bucket since they are all objective based play instead of mindlessly killing each other

the solo queue is still valid, but personally i would think it would be better for them to introduce alternative games for solo only queue (free for all style with no teams, with a deathmatch mode, and then some objective modes that could be derived from the current modes such as chaosball)

Aldoss

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if they have a problem with dividing the queue too much then just merge flag and land games into 1 bucket since they are all objective based play instead of mindlessly killing each other

The critical issue you're forgetting about is that the queue you're mentioning was solo only. One queue with 4 biuckets.

The current queue is two queues with 2 buckets - solo and group with random or dm being the options. Considering this is a social game, it seems ridiculous to scrap the group queue and revert back to only solo. Hence the predicament.

The bg population is lower than what is was 2 years ago. Adding even 1 more option creates a scenario where there are more buckets than the queue you're referencing, but with less total population.

nightstrike

Aldoss wrote: »

The current queue is two queues with 2 buckets - solo and group with random or dm being the options.

I would argue that the current queue is two queues with 1 bucket for all practical purposes.

The bg population is lower than what is was 2 years ago. Adding even 1 more option creates a scenario where there are more buckets than the queue you're referencing, but with less total population.

I strongly believe a dungeon finder style system would work well. It would be even better if you could see how many are waiting in the lobby of each type.

Dem_kitkats1

They need to separate DM from Randoms entirely. People who despise DM will come back, DM players get what they have been wanting for years, and everyone will get the option to play what they want. Keep the solo and group ques because so many people enjoy playing with their friends and guildies and they should be able to. Get rid of the MMR if que wait times are too long because it doesn't work now anyway.

Aldoss

nightstrike wrote: »

I would argue that the current queue is two queues with 1 bucket for all practical purposes.

People here love anecdotal data, so here's my experience:

A few weeks ago, my wife and I decided to group queue in the random queue for the giggles. We got a domination first try. We thought, "no waaaaaaayyyyy!" and figured it was a fluke. We queued again... Crazy King.

We opted to stop because objective modes are boring, but got on the leaderboards that week for our trouble.

Seems like the queue works fine, but the reality that has been explained numerous times remains real: there aren't enough people using the random queue to get one to pop on a regular basis.

nightstrike

Aldoss wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

I would argue that the current queue is two queues with 1 bucket for all practical purposes.

People here love anecdotal data, so here's my experience:

A few weeks ago, my wife and I decided to group queue in the random queue for the giggles. We got a domination first try. We thought, "no waaaaaaayyyyy!" and figured it was a fluke. We queued again... Crazy King.

We opted to stop because objective modes are boring, but got on the leaderboards that week for our trouble.

Seems like the queue works fine, but the reality that has been explained numerous times remains real: there aren't enough people using the random queue to get one to pop on a regular basis.

Which server? I usually queue solo, but I could try group.

Contos

Aldoss wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

I would argue that the current queue is two queues with 1 bucket for all practical purposes.

People here love anecdotal data, so here's my experience:

A few weeks ago, my wife and I decided to group queue in the random queue for the giggles. We got a domination first try. We thought, "no waaaaaaayyyyy!" and figured it was a fluke. We queued again... Crazy King.

We opted to stop because objective modes are boring, but got on the leaderboards that week for our trouble.

Seems like the queue works fine, but the reality that has been explained numerous times remains real: there aren't enough people using the random queue to get one to pop on a regular basis.

Depends on server and queue type. Group Random results in Objective way more often, actually.. it's quite impossible to get objective on solo in my experience pc/eu. Others can confirm for other servers. And it will just get worse since obj people are leaving.. im not even an obj only player but stopped playing weeks ago, got burned out after 200+ dms and only 3 objective ones.
So basically the vast majority on the Objective Leaderboard queued trough Group Random probably and not Solo.
But it is again.. very easy to figure out, I don't think I need to explain why Group Random has way higher chances of resulting in Objective modes than Solo.

"Seems like the queue works fine, but the reality that has been explained numerous times remains real: there aren't enough people using the random queue to get one to pop on a regular basis" - So here we go again. Rich in the stream said that the reason we get only dm is cuz most of the players queue for dm. Also, if the two queues were seperated it might reach a point were the queues would not pop.
He didnt say that the vast majority of the bg population prefers and queues for dm tho and didnt say that the drop rates represent the population. And most importantly he didnt say that Objective queue wdn't pop. He said queues in general wdnt do. Probably in less popular time like late night, morning ect.
Because mybe 8 people waits in the dm queue 4 in the random, while mixing the 2 wd result in a match, thats what the current system does.
But he also said that the current system works (what is true, it was "intended" to be "broken"), and he said that there is really no option, they could seperate them, but it might result in what he just explained.
But he isn't right, there are so sooo many ways to make it work. Better.
-Seperating the queues amd making bgs consist of 2 teams instead of 3 = less poeple needed for a match.
-Making objective modes more appealing and changing the queues so you can actually get them when someone else queues for dm.
-For example, and I'm now refering to myself from another thread:
"-Seperating the two queues or even more (only works with high population)
-Dynamic system driven by popularity (precentage based random queue, you can pick the gamemodes you want, just like others but intead it resulting always in the most picked one like now, it will instead randomly pick one, if you have 9 dm, 3 objective tickets it will result in dm 75% of the times, not 100%, most easiest solution tbh)
-Static system based on popularity, weightened DM (basically the old random system with a higher DM drop rate)
-Semi seperating the queues [basically, you can choose what mode you want, if it isn't filing in a reasonable time for you (visual indicator needed) then you can just move to another queue that is filling faster, basically the polite version of the current system, you have the actual opportunity to at least try and wait, and you can also see the queue filling..like in dungons]"

Casul

Aldoss wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

I would argue that the current queue is two queues with 1 bucket for all practical purposes.

People here love anecdotal data, so here's my experience:

A few weeks ago, my wife and I decided to group queue in the random queue for the giggles. We got a domination first try. We thought, "no waaaaaaayyyyy!" and figured it was a fluke. We queued again... Crazy King.

We opted to stop because objective modes are boring, but got on the leaderboards that week for our trouble.

Seems like the queue works fine, but the reality that has been explained numerous times remains real: there aren't enough people using the random queue to get one to pop on a regular basis.

You and your wife will never get another gold mat again. All your game luck was used in those 2 matches.

Talyndor

I am done doing BG's.
[snip]
It seems like ZOS opened a Pandora's box with the DM only BG's and now refuses to address it. I find this puzzling, and unfortunate.
And it is why I no longer participate in BG matches. And have not for quite a while now.

But I was always a PvE player first and foremost, and I continue to enjoy the game's PvE content.

[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]

Pet

As someone who is trying to achieve every achievement on my main, this issue is extremely frustrating as I literally have no possible way of getting into any other game mode to progress any incomplete achievements. I'm really hoping this gets fixed asap.

Talyndor

Pet wrote: »

As someone who is trying to achieve every achievement on my main, this issue is extremely frustrating as I literally have no possible way of getting into any other game mode to progress any incomplete achievements. I'm really hoping this gets fixed asap.

All signs point to them not doing anything. I don't think they really care at all about the BG's.

Darkmage1337

Battleground achievements are now impossible to achieve.
I have not been placed into an objective-based game mode in many months, despite exclusively queueing for RANDOM.

vivisectvib16_ESO

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

Any thoughts and comments to address this issue yet?

Many of us have not been able to play an objective-based gamemode in months despite queueing exclusively for Random.

FYI @ZOS_GinaBruno - this is what people are looking for when they talk about communication. There should be someone responding to valid issues when CM's are tagged. More often than not, folks tag CM's several times before getting a response, or not getting a response at all. Makes the community feel like our legit issues are not being heard.

Gamer1986PAN

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Battleground achievements are now impossible to achieve.
I have not been placed into an objective-based game mode in many months, despite exclusively queueing for RANDOM.

yeah i will never play battlegrounds again until they change their system to any other useful queue. What about going for:
Random Solo
TDM Solo
Advanced Mode Solo
Random Group
TDM Group
Advanced Mode Group

In Advanced mode you can get any random mode besides TDM. This would be better then the current state. Or just come up with the best option:
You can select random - as it would be the default queue if you would not change anything - this mode gives you additional rewards compared to any other queue - or only activite the modes you want to play and this of course specifically for every mode in the game. This means you can decide how long your queing time will be but you are not forced to play modes you dont want to play. This current state is just not at any state that gives those players, that want to play advanced mode any satisfaction so they quit playing battlegrounds reducing the pool of players that want to play any battlegrounds. please wake up and do the right thing @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

mmtaniac

There should be only one matchmaking solo random and group random ,but with guaranteed deathmatch every second match. Game should register somehow your FINISH your last match I repeat FINISH.
If you have objective your next should be guaranteed deathmatch ,but only after FINISHED GAME leaving match don't count as FINISHED not finished objective give you objective again. This way all players will suffer the same way.

Contos

Gamer1986PAN wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Battleground achievements are now impossible to achieve.
I have not been placed into an objective-based game mode in many months, despite exclusively queueing for RANDOM.

yeah i will never play battlegrounds again until they change their system to any other useful queue. What about going for:
Random Solo
TDM Solo
Advanced Mode Solo
Random Group
TDM Group
Advanced Mode Group

In Advanced mode you can get any random mode besides TDM. This would be better then the current state. Or just come up with the best option:
You can select random - as it would be the default queue if you would not change anything - this mode gives you additional rewards compared to any other queue - or only activite the modes you want to play and this of course specifically for every mode in the game. This means you can decide how long your queing time will be but you are not forced to play modes you dont want to play. This current state is just not at any state that gives those players, that want to play advanced mode any satisfaction so they quit playing battlegrounds reducing the pool of players that want to play any battlegrounds. please wake up and do the right thing @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

It's just too much queues, and not enough players, the best would be to solve the problem with only one solo and one group queue.

Contos

mmtaniac wrote: »

There should be only one matchmaking solo random and group random ,but with guaranteed deathmatch every second match. Game should register somehow your FINISH your last match I repeat FINISH.
If you have objective your next should be guaranteed deathmatch ,but only after FINISHED GAME leaving match don't count as FINISHED not finished objective give you objective again. This way all players will suffer the same way.

This is an easy solve but also its not really random then. Neither elegant, it still feels rigged and limiting, it's just too simple.

I suggest to just go with one solo and one group random queue, with the twist that you can choose what modes you prefer. Let's say each mode you picked is a ticket for that mode. You can have 1 for each mode, so overall 5 tickets.
Then you will be placed in queue. Group fills up. All tickets of all the 12 players will be dropped in a pool, one will be choosed randomly.
12 players can have 60 tickets overall. 12 for each gamemode.

Example: we have 41 tickets, dm has 12 (30%) dominion 10 (24%) crazy king 9 (21%) capture the relic 6 (15%) chaosball 4 (10%)
In the current system, it always results in deathmatch, in this system dm has around 30% chance, but still the highest of all.
If dm is popular then dm will still have the highest droprate, but other modes could still drop. Random but reflects popularity. Problem solved. From then on, you just need to make less popular modes better.
Maybe in result popularity will grow and you can seperate the queues, tho giving it a try now is an option too. You can say it wont pop, or anything, but people wont calm down until they experience it.

Necrotech_Master

when BG were first introduced, the queues were exactly like the dungeon queue

there was random (for your daily random bonus, like dungeons)
there was a queue specifically for DM
there was a queue specifically for flag games
there was a queue specifically for land grab games


then for whatever reason (possibly the complaining about premades) the queue was changed to be only random

solo random (there was also a "test" period where solo random WAS the only option too)
group random


after that the queue got changed again (possible complaining from the crowd who likes DM) and now we have the heavily rigged in favor of DM queue

DM got their specific queue back, but no other games have their specific queues, even if you wanted to lump all objective games under another queue, which would balance things out again

either "random" needs to not pull from the DM only queue, or there needs to be associated objectives queue to go with the DM only queue so that both options have a queue that ignores the "opposing" modes (with random still being the "catch all" for those who dont care)

M0ntie

Still no fix from ZoS for this????
Would the random dungeon finder continue if people only got Fungal Grotto all the time? Oh wait - the fixed it so that you can't queue for a random normal and then port to FG and do that for the rewards.
Please fix BGs so that random gives an even distribution of ALL BG types!

I don't know why it was changed, except for apparently some people couldn't read when it wasn't DM and played it as though it was DM and lost. ZoS doensn't change anything else just because people don't learn how to play. Otherwise there would be no ground AOEs for people to stand in and die to.

CyberOnEso

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know we've been analyzing all the data from winter break and should have an update for you all on next steps regarding Battlegrounds soon. Thanks for your patience!

News from Gina regarding the BG queue, here's hoping we can see an improvement.

Really great to hear communication on this issue from ZOS!

MjolnirVilkas

I've been in Chaosball and Capture the Relic today. This was the first time I've played a non-DM match in months. And I've been playing a lot of BGs, lately especialy.

It seems there's a higher chance to get into non-DM matches if you join the Group Random Deathmatch. Or maybe it's just my luck, I dunno.

mandricus

MjolnirVilkas wrote: »

It seems there's a higher chance to get into non-DM matches if you join the Group Random Deathmatch. Or maybe it's just my luck, I dunno.

I can confirm. Don't know the reasons, but the only two non-DM matches I had last week both came when I was queued on group random. I never got a non-DM match from the solo queue (and I queue a lot, on a daily basis).

Gamer1986PAN

Contos wrote: »

Gamer1986PAN wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Battleground achievements are now impossible to achieve.
I have not been placed into an objective-based game mode in many months, despite exclusively queueing for RANDOM.

yeah i will never play battlegrounds again until they change their system to any other useful queue. What about going for:
Random Solo
TDM Solo
Advanced Mode Solo
Random Group
TDM Group
Advanced Mode Group

In Advanced mode you can get any random mode besides TDM. This would be better then the current state. Or just come up with the best option:
You can select random - as it would be the default queue if you would not change anything - this mode gives you additional rewards compared to any other queue - or only activite the modes you want to play and this of course specifically for every mode in the game. This means you can decide how long your queing time will be but you are not forced to play modes you dont want to play. This current state is just not at any state that gives those players, that want to play advanced mode any satisfaction so they quit playing battlegrounds reducing the pool of players that want to play any battlegrounds. please wake up and do the right thing @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

It's just too much queues, and not enough players, the best would be to solve the problem with only one solo and one group queue.

Its not enough players because they are not allowed to queue for the battleground mode they want to play. i would be happy to play some battlegrounds but if i get 7 out of 7 tdm when i want to play any other mode than tdm i will not queue for any battle ground again its as simple as that. you can play all other modes with tank gear only tdm you need to play as dps or heal.
so if i queue for tdm i can equip dd setup before - if i play chaos i can go for a more tanky build. that way battlegrounds will be more pvp-beginner-friendly as they can use a build knowing it works for them in that mode as good as possible.

_adhyffbjjjf12

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

To avoid reinventing the wheel (NIH anti pattern anyone) could you not do the following which I have seen in a number of implementations across games? problem is absolutely solved fairly, even if 99% of the game player based wanted one BG type, and all BGs are active. Note it also covers changing trends in preferences.


- Each player picks random BG
- When group is full a spinner comes up and each person select which map they would like.
-- Note here it remains random until AFTER a group is formed.
- The Spinner then visualises the selection in a pie chart. so for example of 2 out of 8 select DM then 25% of the pie chart is DM
- Spinner then spins and stops randomly on a segment.

Everyone gets a chance to get the map they want, and majority gets an advantage.

Well proven, simple, fair, transparent and gives weight to the majority without impacting the minority who still has a fair proportional chance. If 100% want same map, then all is good, if all 8 want different maps all is good.

maravana

Please separate the queues. I am tired of being cannon fodder for the Deathmatch crowd.

Dergenborn

I too miss the other game modes dearly...

Deathmatch is okay, but I don't wanna just do that one every single time I queue, I've always had more fun with all the other modes, as they require a modicum of strategy and it isn't just about brute force.

I really don't understand why ZOS thought doing this was a good idea. Not to mention there's plenty of achievements and stuff to earn in the other modes, and now it's nigh impossible to ever get them.

Battlegrounds are something I love in this game, never had so much fun in any other game's PvP, and I really hope they'll make it the way it was again.