Overland Content Feedback Thread

colossalvoids

That's a big derail here. So buying every zone and dlc, subbing and buying cs stuff isn't "enough" so people should also add on top something to have some of the content working (without a divide between narrative and gameplay). It would be virtually the same as releasing a dungeon pack in normal difficulty and charge extra for vet and more for HM on top.

To help the game this feature absolutely should be free and optional. A lot of people coming to check the game and finding themselves not interested when zones gameplay wise are virtually the same, some won't be there to experience different kinds of content after said experience. Imagine them finding out that the difficulty and part of the elder scrolls flavour (another part is extreme powerfantasy of alchemy-enchanting-smithing loop) is locked with a token or a different purchase even when store is already kinda mandatory thing to be engaged with for any dedicated play.

Considering instanced problem it had different rules before in vr times in them so not sure what's the issue really, instead of 5 same ones it would be 4+1 or 3+2 in the very worst case. The problem is a "community" one, where one party considers it healthy for everyone to be on a same field even though it would mean people not playing this said field at all or disliking their experience.

Lysette

Overland content is quite complex as well - it requires to keep track of the state of the quests again for any character doing those - if a quest is completed, some areas look different to when they were not completed - these states are basically instances inside an instance - like I helped out a town to get rid of something - and now the town is no longer in peril, but looks nice and people are cheering when you come along - this is an instance in an instance basically - other players coming along in the same area, are seeing it in a different way, when the quest wasn't done yet, the town still in peril - and there are a lot of places like this in overland - this is far more complex than normal repeatable veteran content is.

Vulkunne

Lysette wrote: »

Overland content is quite complex as well - it requires to keep track of the state of the quests again for any character doing those - if a quest is completed, some areas look different to when they were not completed - these states are basically instances inside an instance - like I helped out a town to get rid of something - and now the town is no longer in peril, but looks nice and people are cheering when you come along - this is an instance in an instance basically - other players coming along in the same area, are seeing it in a different way, when the quest wasn't done yet, the town still in peril - and there are a lot of places like this in overland - this is far more complex than normal repeatable veteran content is.

Don't see how. If its the same instance for my character then only my character is experiencing it. Game already uses instances I don't see why this would matter.

Lysette

colossalvoids wrote: »

That's a big derail here. So buying every zone and dlc, subbing and buying cs stuff isn't "enough" so people should also add on top something to have some of the content working (without a divide between narrative and gameplay). It would be virtually the same as releasing a dungeon pack in normal difficulty and charge extra for vet and more for HM on top.

To help the game this feature absolutely should be free and optional. A lot of people coming to check the game and finding themselves not interested when zones gameplay wise are virtually the same, some won't be there to experience different kinds of content after said experience. Imagine them finding out that the difficulty and part of the elder scrolls flavour (another part is extreme powerfantasy of alchemy-enchanting-smithing loop) is locked with a token or a different purchase even when store is already kinda mandatory thing to be engaged with for any dedicated play.

Considering instanced problem it had different rules before in vr times in them so not sure what's the issue really, instead of 5 same ones it would be 4+1 or 3+2 in the very worst case. The problem is a "community" one, where one party considers it healthy for everyone to be on a same field even though it would mean people not playing this said field at all or disliking their experience.

good luck with that if you expect it to be free - it is more likely that the hell freezes over.

Lysette

Vulkunne wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Overland content is quite complex as well - it requires to keep track of the state of the quests again for any character doing those - if a quest is completed, some areas look different to when they were not completed - these states are basically instances inside an instance - like I helped out a town to get rid of something - and now the town is no longer in peril, but looks nice and people are cheering when you come along - this is an instance in an instance basically - other players coming along in the same area, are seeing it in a different way, when the quest wasn't done yet, the town still in peril - and there are a lot of places like this in overland - this is far more complex than normal repeatable veteran content is.

Don't see how. If its the same instance for my character then only my character is experiencing it. Game already uses instances I don't see why this would matter.

it is a similar effort required again - doubles the memory requirements per character doing it, doubles keeping track of all the quest states for any character doing it and so on - it is not that simple as you think it would be. Or do you want that your already done quests in vanilla are carrying over to veteran content - in this case it would be less, but then that content is not repeatable at veteran difficulty.

Captain_OP

SilverBride wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is actually a lot of resistance against a separate veteran overland with many reasons given why we think this would be bad for the game. It was also noted by Rich Lambert in a Twitch stream that it would require a lot of work to implement.

Where is the resistance you are talking about?
Every comment that is positive for vet overland/story content has much more awesome, insightful and agree then the comments against it.

The resistance is "the comments against it" referred to above.

We can't go just by the number of agrees because there is no option to disagree with a post. But there are multiple posts in this and previous threads arguing against a separate veteran overland starting with page 1 of this thread.

Interesting, a comment have more weight than a agree for you, but this is your opinion and you are making a argument out of it, like i did.

I think we both can agree that we can not do a argumentation with this, we need reliable data to make a point.

Lysette

All ZOS is interested in is is it worth doing it or not - and so far it seem you guys expect it to be free - so the answer for ZOS is most likely - not worth it - offer something, maybe then it will be considered, but expecting it for free, why would they want to engage with the complexity of this upgrade, if there is nothing to gain from it?

Chilly-McFreeze

Lysette wrote: »

All ZOS is interested in is is it worth doing it or not - and so far it seem you guys expect it to be free - so the answer for ZOS is most likely - not worth it - offer something, maybe then it will be considered, but expecting it for free, why would they want to engage with the complexity of this upgrade, if there is nothing to gain from it?

If they implement an option that overland content (biggest part of the game) offers some fun for me, I am willing to buy more stuff from the CS. As simple as that. There is your gain.

Lysette

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

All ZOS is interested in is is it worth doing it or not - and so far it seem you guys expect it to be free - so the answer for ZOS is most likely - not worth it - offer something, maybe then it will be considered, but expecting it for free, why would they want to engage with the complexity of this upgrade, if there is nothing to gain from it?

If they implement an option that overland content (biggest part of the game) offers some fun for me, I am willing to buy more stuff from the CS. As simple as that. There is your gain.

you will buy that anyway, as well if they do nothing at all - this is not an argument to engage with the complexity of the implementation of that feature and the higher running cost of having them - so it is not very likely to happen, if you guys think it will be free, it's not going to happen.

Could be ESO+ though - but in this case it would just be free for those paying anyway already.

ShalidorsHeir

They could sell anything - in this thread it is about what to sell. You did not offer smth or even ask for companion system - still you bought it - and you did not buy the companion system - you bought black wood chapter. It is not about how much you would offer at all. The question is if it is reasonable and then they come up with something (maybe something else) that you will buy from them to compensate the effort. ("you" means the majority of players). Dont mix up features and marketing itself. I already explained in multiple comments, if you would just read it as whole.

And in my opinion it is reasonable and i would pay for it no matter in which way.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

All ZOS is interested in is is it worth doing it or not - and so far it seem you guys expect it to be free - so the answer for ZOS is most likely - not worth it - offer something, maybe then it will be considered, but expecting it for free, why would they want to engage with the complexity of this upgrade, if there is nothing to gain from it?

If they implement an option that overland content (biggest part of the game) offers some fun for me, I am willing to buy more stuff from the CS. As simple as that. There is your gain.

you will buy that anyway, as well if they do nothing at all

That one way to end an discussion.

PvP isn't working. Trials have nothing for me. Overland would be what keeps me on board.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lysette wrote: »

so it is not very likely to happen, if you guys think it will be free, it's not going to happen.

Could be ESO+ though - but in this case it would just be free for those paying anyway already.

Like Housing?

Jodynn

"Let's make it harder for no reward"

That isn't interesting for the long run; and I sure as hell am not interested in partaking.
The game should present more challenging content if a user wants it, AND teach people how to deal with it IN the game AND make it worth their time and effort.

I see a lot of scaling health/damage.

That's not interesting to me without other vital changes. Smacking the same boss with the same skills I've used a billion times for a longer period of time isn't really in my purview; we need new combat mechanics like combos, or spell crafting, somewhere to grow, something new to learn.
Once you are max level in game, and skill level, there is nowhere to go. My skill rotation that I once did strive to get better is so second nature to me I can do it without thinking. The combat that I once loved has become stagnant, there is no change, there is no new challenge. I don't care if you have to rip up the whole system but as someone who enjoys theory-crafting this game is bones bare basic and there is nothing left of interest here except helping my friends and the hope one day I won't feel like the combat is easy.

I once thought class change would be nice but every class feels the same now, there isn't a lot of difference. Mostly it's dot then spam (of course while weaving). I respect the want for every player to enjoy the game and I agree; I agree class balance is important, it's numerical; however I don't agree simplifying and making everything functionally the same.

Veteran overland does sound interesting (concern for splitting up player base I do love helping lowbies out, and no I don't want a debuff that makes me weaker than someone else), at least a hard mode for instanced story areas; however I think more importantly, the core combat system needs help first to allow for a more engaging and fun hard mode, and being able to create some kind of reward actually worth it.

Jodynn

Also, it'd be nice if the stakes were you know, ever high.

Harvokaan

Lysette wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

There are no additional instances need, because the whole game is already instanced with multiple instances per zone.

The identical instances of the megaserver to accommodate how many people are playing at one time is not the same as an instance with completely different difficulty and mechanics. These new instances with veteran difficulty would have to be created and applied to every platform, then maintained.

yeah that is the problem, it requires not just new servers but as well more staff to care about it - this is not a simple upgrade, but a serious investment.

Again, it looks like you have some access to the data accessible only to zos employees, pls share. I for example cannot understand how it is the serious investment when we don't know a single thing about zos code or their infrastructure.

Casdha

Lysette wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Now I know why they chose the Ouroboros as the symbol for this game.

This game started out with 3 factions to start from, each with a Silver and a Gold level (other faction play throughs as VR levels). Each new zone had an increased difficulty and you had folks grinding trash mobs just to make level cap by the time they hit their last zone in their home faction. Once you hit Silver and Gold you had to put about 10 times as much work in to gain a level. If you tried to play a zone too far ahead of your level you got your tail handed to ya. If you tried to play a zone that you were to far ahead of things fell over like dominoes and you got no credit for your efforts. A VR level character could go back and have a solo cake walk through Group Dungeons in their starting faction zones (at least the ones available at the time). Also, Craglorn overland was tuned for max level characters to at least run in pairs and if you could solo a bunch of bees you were doing good, and if you could solo a pack of Welwa (when the last one hulked out) then you were real good.

Why is it that none of this stuff exist now??????? Folks asked for it.

Because that concept was really bad - you could outlevel a zone easily and then the whole thing falls apart and is no fun anymore - and gated gaming is a matter of the past, nowadays the raisin picker generation is on the rise, and we want the raisins now without having to eat the whole cake - and are willing to pay for not having to eat the whole cake - that is why.

This pretty much sums up what I meant by "Folks asked for it." and I agree.

As for the Ouroboros comment, think of it with each section representing this instead of their factions
( PvP>PvE>Overland>PvP.........) each one caused harm to the next's style of play.

Example from your comment "you could outlevel a zone easily":
The only ones who were out leveling zones "easily" at the time were the ones who spent a lot of hours in PvP, those who did Group dungeons were on par or a little ahead while those who spent most of their time in Overland/Quests (like myself) with very little Group dungeons or Cyrodiil visits were having to find areas with closely grouped and fast respawning trash mobs that were a few levels ahead and farm them as well as do every single quest you came across to boot (main, side, mages', fighter's, delves and everything else) just to be at or near level for the next zone. This became even worse for VR levels. I as a quest/overland player was fine with this though as it provided, for me, what most are asking for in this thread and if it was to hard I just skipped it and came back and did it later for the story.

As a comparison to how things are now, now I have no problem soloing, without dying, most of the group dungeons that don't have a group mechanic. I've even done a couple on Vet mode or with completely broken gear because I forgot to fix it first. So yes, overland is way to easy for me but I don't complain as I can find a challenge if I need one.



As for the on topic if anything is changed in overland, there is nothing they can do that will make everyone happy but one thing is inevitable, some new major broken something will come out of it for some group to complain about.

Lysette

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

so it is not very likely to happen, if you guys think it will be free, it's not going to happen.

Could be ESO+ though - but in this case it would just be free for those paying anyway already.

Like Housing?

housing is not free - all you get for free is an inn room per character - otherwise it is paid for in many ways, because it creates demand not just for houses, but as well for furniture and other items like plants, house guests and what not. This is a bad example, because it created a whole branch of stuff which can be sold as soon as the demand is created by offering those houses - but this isn't a free feature, it is directly paid for.

But what demand would be created by veteran overland - nothing what you wouldn't already have - or would be going to buy anyway.

Actually if ZOS would provide it for free - I would praise them for reaching the next level in generosity - I hope for it, because I would like to see you guys having some fun story driven area as well, but I doubt it happening for free.

Defeatist

Thankyou for this thread, it’s awesome to see everyone’s opinions and ideas.

I've been a regular player since beta and I’ve played to death just about every aspect of the game: overland PVE, group PVE, Cyrodiil PVP, battlegrounds PVP, housing, you name it.

As a veteran player, I agree with others who have stated that in their current state overland quest zones are dull, anticlimactic, and not immersive. Currently, I’m slogging through Blackwood at a snail's pace because although I love the lore of the Argonians and Daedric planes, the difficulty level doesn’t lend itself to the atmosphere of an Oblivion crisis event.

I’m also an advocate for changes to make the overland zones and story quests more friendly to veteran players but it is also important to me that new or casual players are able to enjoy the game and have fun. As it is though, most enemies in overland I one shot, I can solo all overland group content (public dungeons, delves, WB) except maybe for dragons, and main story bosses I have to halt all dps and slowly light attack or else I miss out on their dialog lines and mechanics.

That being said, I agree that any added veteran overland content should be an option that can be toggled on or off using either the party menu or by activating a HM banner or scroll. Just because I’ve been around the block and labored in trials and arenas to get best in slot gear, CP and general game experience does not mean everyone has and that’s fine. If veteran overland zones were somehow integrated it could also give players such as myself an opportunity to play through the story again similar to a New game+ which I would 100% play through and enjoy.

However, if veteran overland content was integrated whether it be small scale by altering overland boss’s to have HM or large scale or by adding completely separate zone instances I think it’s important to have different rewards depending on difficulty. Players including myself won’t put in the work for nothing, that’s true of any content not just overland zones. But I agree that the rewards shouldn’t be too extreme, but there would need to be something, even a minor increase in gold/experience/gear quality would help incentivize players not to just use the path of least resistance.

Sylvermynx

Lysette wrote: »

Because that concept was really bad - you could outlevel a zone easily and then the whole thing falls apart and is no fun anymore - and gated gaming is a matter of the past, nowadays the raisin picker generation is on the rise, and we want the raisins now without having to eat the whole cake - and are willing to pay for not having to eat the whole cake - that is why.

If I could have a dollar for every time I outleveled a zone in WoW and RIFT.... I'd be a lot richer. Gated content pissed me off in those games, so I was really happy not to find it here.

Lysette

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Because that concept was really bad - you could outlevel a zone easily and then the whole thing falls apart and is no fun anymore - and gated gaming is a matter of the past, nowadays the raisin picker generation is on the rise, and we want the raisins now without having to eat the whole cake - and are willing to pay for not having to eat the whole cake - that is why.

If I could have a dollar for every time I outleveled a zone in WoW and RIFT.... I'd be a lot richer. Gated content pissed me off in those games, so I was really happy not to find it here.

Indeed, I was about to not wanting to play anymore, and then came one tamriel and it continued to be fun again.

I think it is as well impressive for new players, not to be kept in a newbie area and having to kill hundreds if not thousands of rats first, before they can have a look at the beautiful landscapes and regions in this game - just travelling around a bit and see what is there must be a stunning experience for a new player - nearly endless content in a huge variety of different landscapes and cultures - and any of them so beautifully crafted - I so love and enjoy the incredible sound design of many places - the music is great as well and differs from region to region - lately I got into some argonian music - reminded me a bit of didgeridoo in Australia - or khajiit music, which reminds me of indian instrumental themes and so - the large variety of inn singers and their performances - ESO is an awesome game with so much detail even outside of combat. This all can be experienced by newbies from the very start already, due to one Tamriel.

Cireous

I'm fairly sure someone has probably already thought of this, but what about adding player debuffs to the negative effect table in Alchemy? Experiencing these debuffs would be avoidable if you rank up Snakeblood--making everything entirely optional, of course. This way, we could craft potions that add interesting debuffs to our character, so we can find the exact type of difficulty we might be looking for. The debuffs could increase in their percentage, the higher level solvent we use, so, for example, using Lorkhan's Tears to combine these negative effects would net us their strongest versions.

Negative Effects/Debuffs could look something like:

• Decrease damage to Overland non-group enemies by player by %
• Increase damage to Player by Overland non-group enemies by %
• Reduce healing on player by %
• Reduce player's run speed and magicka recovery when in a cold weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in cold weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce player's run speed and stamina recovery when in a hot weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in warm weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce the likelihood of a soul gem resurrection by % (forcing player to resurrect at nearest wayshrine instead)
• Eliminating soul gem resurrection and restricting wayshrine resurrection to the nearest major city

With each new DLC, they could add new alchemy reagents introducing fun ways to debuff us, if we so choose. I would find new Chapters a lot more exciting to play through with a system like this in place.

I, personally, would NOT be satisfied with only quest bosses and delves debuffed, I want the complete experience. And I do NOT need incentives. The value is in the journey. Just like in the single player games.

Lysette

Cireous wrote: »

I'm fairly sure someone has probably already thought of this, but what about adding player debuffs to the negative effect table in Alchemy? Experiencing these debuffs would be avoidable if you rank up Snakeblood--making everything entirely optional, of course. This way, we could craft potions that add interesting debuffs to our character, so we can find the exact type of difficulty we might be looking for. The debuffs could increase in their percentage, the higher level solvent we use, so, for example, using Lorkhan's Tears to combine these negative effects would net us their strongest versions.

Negative Effects/Debuffs could look something like:

• Decrease damage to Overland non-group enemies by player by %
• Increase damage to Player by Overland non-group enemies by %
• Reduce healing on player by %
• Reduce player's run speed and magicka recovery when in a cold weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in cold weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce player's run speed and stamina recovery when in a hot weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in warm weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce the likelihood of a soul gem resurrection by % (forcing player to resurrect at nearest wayshrine instead)
• Eliminating soul gem resurrection and restricting wayshrine resurrection to the nearest major city

With each new DLC, they could add new alchemy reagents introducing fun ways to debuff us, if we so choose. I would find new Chapters a lot more exciting to play through with a system like this in place.

I, personally, would NOT be satisfied with only quest bosses and delves debuffed, I want the complete experience. And I do NOT need incentives. The value is in the journey. Just like in the single player games.

what a nice idea - having played Skyrim in winter edition with frostfall and harsh climates, I could actually enjoy having some environmental effects like these.

SilverBride

Cireous wrote: »

I'm fairly sure someone has probably already thought of this, but what about adding player debuffs to the negative effect table in Alchemy? Experiencing these debuffs would be avoidable if you rank up Snakeblood--making everything entirely optional, of course. This way, we could craft potions that add interesting debuffs to our character, so we can find the exact type of difficulty we might be looking for. The debuffs could increase in their percentage, the higher level solvent we use, so, for example, using Lorkhan's Tears to combine these negative effects would net us their strongest versions.

Negative Effects/Debuffs could look something like:

• Decrease damage to Overland non-group enemies by player by %
• Increase damage to Player by Overland non-group enemies by %
• Reduce healing on player by %
• Reduce player's run speed and magicka recovery when in a cold weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in cold weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce player's run speed and stamina recovery when in a hot weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in warm weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce the likelihood of a soul gem resurrection by % (forcing player to resurrect at nearest wayshrine instead)
• Eliminating soul gem resurrection and restricting wayshrine resurrection to the nearest major city

With each new DLC, they could add new alchemy reagents introducing fun ways to debuff us, if we so choose. I would find new Chapters a lot more exciting to play through with a system like this in place.

I, personally, would NOT be satisfied with only quest bosses and delves debuffed, I want the complete experience. And I do NOT need incentives. The value is in the journey. Just like in the single player games.

I love this idea.

tonyblack

Cireous wrote: »

I'm fairly sure someone has probably already thought of this, but what about adding player debuffs to the negative effect table in Alchemy? Experiencing these debuffs would be avoidable if you rank up Snakeblood--making everything entirely optional, of course. This way, we could craft potions that add interesting debuffs to our character, so we can find the exact type of difficulty we might be looking for. The debuffs could increase in their percentage, the higher level solvent we use, so, for example, using Lorkhan's Tears to combine these negative effects would net us their strongest versions.

Negative Effects/Debuffs could look something like:

• Decrease damage to Overland non-group enemies by player by %
• Increase damage to Player by Overland non-group enemies by %
• Reduce healing on player by %
• Reduce player's run speed and magicka recovery when in a cold weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in cold weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce player's run speed and stamina recovery when in a hot weather state for a period of time by % when not sufficiently geared in warm weather armor, leading to death and resurrection at the nearest inn after a significant amount of time in this state
• Reduce the likelihood of a soul gem resurrection by % (forcing player to resurrect at nearest wayshrine instead)
• Eliminating soul gem resurrection and restricting wayshrine resurrection to the nearest major city

With each new DLC, they could add new alchemy reagents introducing fun ways to debuff us, if we so choose. I would find new Chapters a lot more exciting to play through with a system like this in place.

I, personally, would NOT be satisfied with only quest bosses and delves debuffed, I want the complete experience. And I do NOT need incentives. The value is in the journey. Just like in the single player games.

I don’t see a value of such suggestion.
First of all, such suggestion, like most other similar debuff ideas in this thread, punish players who progress enough into the game without providing any form of incentive. It reminds me of “unequip you gear” idea but in convoluted and confusing form. What supposed to appeal to me here and convinced to use it? And how much is it different from simplistic approach we have already.
Second, all dlc alchemy ingredients already hard to come by, they expensive and rare even if they useless (looking at charius eggs and clam gall here). So even if i overcome first point, do i have to spend extra effort and gold so surrounded me players can run around, one-shotting everything and thinking what a noob I am for struggling to kill generic enemies?
Third, barring the fact that such complicated systems confusing to generic players, how are they easier to code and implement than let’s say veteran instances and boss scrolls? I would skip first 3 points, they’re easy, boring and cheap but the other ones? Personally, I see more efforts than they worth and I would rather take vet zones and instances, ty.

colossalvoids

Would agree with stated above by Tony, it would be a major turn off for a new player also - overland is problematic not only for a "veteran" as we know. Punishing approach is something a small niche would surely enjoy but not a solution for the other part of players asking for a different kind of challenge. Probably some also see veteran content all along as punishment lol.

So it... might kinda work is in a single player instances but we don't have those and it's also impossible to implement one for each exact player. Imagine lagging more because zone also calculated it's weather for everyone now even not utilising this if forced yet again on everyone's experience this way. What if a last pot runned out out in a wilds? And if I'm a newbie, I probably would have none to begin with.

Would also need a separate inventory or have a zero weight which is also unrealistic because idem IDs are a thing that can clutter database as we also know. Something like a memento might be a gimmick for that I'd guess?

Then there should be no cooldown on such potions, as when you are about to die you probs would need to change your cold zone one for a no resurrection with soulgem one immediately, leading also for a probably separate quick slot wheel...
Yeah, a fun non punishing system right? Can continue on an on but see no point.

I can surely understand how those ideas gor flowing but that's very far from a lot of people's problems and solutions if looked close to, it would be nice addition for a roleplay community though but not for ones who find eso laughable and who shouldn't be using tens of hoops to enjoy it properly. People want to log in and play, not farming reagents/tokens to have % of their damage eaten out whilst persisting in current zones being a farm fest. That's roughly like One Tamriel patch to be an introduction of a potion boosting your damage output and that's it, you're together now lmao.

Lysette

tonyblack wrote: »

Second, all dlc alchemy ingredients already hard to come by, they expensive and rare even if they useless (looking at charius eggs and clam gall here). So even if i overcome first point, do i have to spend extra effort and gold so surrounded me players can run around, one-shotting everything and thinking what a noob I am for struggling to kill generic enemies?

You want a challenge in an environment, which is basically made for new players - overland - so to have this challenge you will have to feel like a newbie feels in those zones and struggle with generic enemies - where would otherwise be the challenge?

You cannot have both, the world of Tamriel will not be newly invented and everything changed just because you want more challenge and when you get it, you don't like it because you have to struggle with creatures, which you one-shotted before. It is clear if you want more challenge, you will not kill them in one shot anymore, but in several and some might even be able to kill you outright - like those can do this with new player now - either you want a challenge or you don't - you cannot have both.

Sparxlost

So i saw a noble getting bullied somewhere in glenumbra i think and decided i should beat up the thugs for them

was thinking that maybe id get some reward or at least an interaction

i was thinking maybe you could talk to one of the thugs and try and convince them to leave or initiate a fight or just straight up dropkick their faces from stealth there wouldnt need to be any quest markers it would be a small event that rewards you for a good eye

and once you beat up the bullies you could get some gold or something maybe treasure?

SilverBride

Lysette wrote: »

You want a challenge in an environment, which is basically made for new players - overland - so to have this challenge you will have to feel like a newbie feels in those zones and struggle with generic enemies - where would otherwise be the challenge?

You cannot have both, the world of Tamriel will not be newly invented and everything changed just because you want more challenge and when you get it, you don't like it because you have to struggle with creatures, which you one-shotted before. It is clear if you want more challenge, you will not kill them in one shot anymore, but in several and some might even be able to kill you outright - like those can do this with new player now - either you want a challenge or you don't - you cannot have both.

This sums it up perfectly.

tonyblack

Lysette wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

Second, all dlc alchemy ingredients already hard to come by, they expensive and rare even if they useless (looking at charius eggs and clam gall here). So even if i overcome first point, do i have to spend extra effort and gold so surrounded me players can run around, one-shotting everything and thinking what a noob I am for struggling to kill generic enemies?

You want a challenge in an environment, which is basically made for new players - overland - so to have this challenge you will have to feel like a newbie feels in those zones and struggle with generic enemies - where would otherwise be the challenge?

You cannot have both, the world of Tamriel will not be newly invented and everything changed just because you want more challenge and when you get it, you don't like it because you have to struggle with creatures, which you one-shotted before. It is clear if you want more challenge, you will not kill them in one shot anymore, but in several and some might even be able to kill you outright - like those can do this with new player now - either you want a challenge or you don't - you cannot have both.

Well, that’s the problem. Every new chapter and dlc designed for new players only. I had fun there when i was new too (it still posed no challenge and I didn’t die where I should’ve logically), but how long can you remain a new player with minimal understanding of the game you play? There are probably thousands hours worth of content by now designed exclusively for new players and it’s hard to stay positive for new releases when it would be same old tutorial difficulty you played several years ago.
And what do you mean we can’t have both? The whole discussion (1800 replies btw) full of different suggestions and ideas, some of them does provide a solutions so new and veteran players could have fun experience, I disagreed with the one i quoted because, in my opinion, it’s poorly thought out and didn’t address the reasons of complaints.

It’s not the struggle to kill something that turn me off in those kind of suggestions, but struggle to have genuine fun and sense of accomplishment in environment where most other players wouldn’t choose to nerf themselves for no reasons.
Personally, at this point, I mostly expect for some kind of experiment in new dlc only, whole Tamriel rework - unlikely. But if it’s ever going to happen i hope for quality solution.

SerafinaWaterstar

but how long can you remain a new player with minimal understanding of the game you play?

I think you would be surprised!