Overland Content Feedback Thread

Lysette

tonyblack wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

Second, all dlc alchemy ingredients already hard to come by, they expensive and rare even if they useless (looking at charius eggs and clam gall here). So even if i overcome first point, do i have to spend extra effort and gold so surrounded me players can run around, one-shotting everything and thinking what a noob I am for struggling to kill generic enemies?

You want a challenge in an environment, which is basically made for new players - overland - so to have this challenge you will have to feel like a newbie feels in those zones and struggle with generic enemies - where would otherwise be the challenge?

You cannot have both, the world of Tamriel will not be newly invented and everything changed just because you want more challenge and when you get it, you don't like it because you have to struggle with creatures, which you one-shotted before. It is clear if you want more challenge, you will not kill them in one shot anymore, but in several and some might even be able to kill you outright - like those can do this with new player now - either you want a challenge or you don't - you cannot have both.

Well, that’s the problem. Every new chapter and dlc designed for new players only. I had fun there when i was new too (it still posed no challenge and I didn’t die where I should’ve logically), but how long can you remain a new player with minimal understanding of the game you play? There are probably thousands hours worth of content by now designed exclusively for new players and it’s hard to stay positive for new releases when it would be same old tutorial difficulty you played several years ago.
And what do you mean we can’t have both? The whole discussion (1800 replies btw) full of different suggestions and ideas, some of them does provide a solutions so new and veteran players could have fun experience, I disagreed with the one i quoted because, in my opinion, it’s poorly thought out and didn’t address the reasons of complaints.

It’s not the struggle to kill something that turn me off in those kind of suggestions, but struggle to have genuine fun and sense of accomplishment in environment where most other players wouldn’t choose to nerf themselves for no reasons.
Personally, at this point, I mostly expect for some kind of experiment in new dlc only, whole Tamriel rework - unlikely. But if it’s ever going to happen i hope for quality solution.

See, you guys talk of a veteran overland where you are challenged - but what you expect, it won't be, simply because it is a huge area with complex content and the best you can hope for is something what makes you struggle with generic enemies. You guys are saying that overland is even playing naked no challenge - so to give you a challenge you have to be even worse than a newbie, because otherwise you wouldn't have a challenge, and this is your own opinion pointed back at you. So you will have to struggle with generic enemies, if you want it or not, because the world of Tamriel will not be redesigned for you, it is too big for that and too complex as well - that is what I meant with you can't have it both - if you want a challenge in an environment made for newbies, you will have to be worse than those newbies would be - and struggle with generic enemies.

Rex-Umbra

Overland is not immersive or rewarding, it's too easy and has no effect on your character or world. Open world npcs should be tuned up dramatically with larger rewards for questing.

Sylvermynx

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Overland is not immersive or rewarding, it's too easy and has no effect on your character or world. Open world npcs should be tuned up dramatically with larger rewards for questing.

Optionally. I already can't kill 3+ mobs or quest bosses easily.

Wavek

I would like the option of increased difficulty in overland content. I'm not sure the best way to do that without splitting up the population again though. Perhaps some type of 'nerf' to the character that selects a higher difficulty so they can co-exist with those on lower difficulties. (and get better rewards for their effort perhaps)

I dont think it can be globally increased for everyone though. There are still plenty of people who struggle with some enemies as it is.

jad11mumbler

As is overland combat is just painfully boring IMO.

Quests are under whelming when you instantly melt a big bad.
They become tedious when you have to walk into a place to just one shot a boss, to then backtrack out right away.

Friendly npcs are under mined when they're apparently too weak to deal with a creature we one shot.
Ala the Direnni Clan, powerful mages who...Can't deal with a single harvester a level 3 can quickly kill?


I for one would love the option for harder overland content.

Have the toggle option hard to change / have a few steps or such, so players who find it hard currently can't accidentally flip it to be even harder for them.

ShalidorsHeir

Wavek wrote: »

I would like the option of increased difficulty in overland content. I'm not sure the best way to do that without splitting up the population again though. Perhaps some type of 'nerf' to the character that selects a higher difficulty so they can co-exist with those on lower difficulties. (and get better rewards for their effort perhaps)

I dont think it can be globally increased for everyone though. There are still plenty of people who struggle with some enemies as it is.

That would not splitt the community directly since, accordng to this thread, more people would come back and enjoy overland content. Besides that - they are empty zones already (most of the time) and nobody cares because people tend to quest and explore in their own speed anyways. So besides world bosses & anchor locations which are always populated nothing would really change, that would have a negative impact.

SilverBride

jad11mumbler wrote: »

They become tedious when you have to walk into a place to just one shot a boss, to then backtrack out right away.

I would like to see a video of someone one shotting the final quest boss of each zone, because this is something I certainly can't do.

thedocbwarren

Just my two cents. I love this game, my favorite and daily escape. My only issue is I can not stand the + dungeons. I want to love them, but they are not playable solo, with companions, or with a friend and companions. I don't have a huge guild or belong to one. Getting on a queue is a nightmare and we all know that. There are threads on this so not going to go into the issues, but I wish I could enjoy these.

Lysette

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Wavek wrote: »

I would like the option of increased difficulty in overland content. I'm not sure the best way to do that without splitting up the population again though. Perhaps some type of 'nerf' to the character that selects a higher difficulty so they can co-exist with those on lower difficulties. (and get better rewards for their effort perhaps)

I dont think it can be globally increased for everyone though. There are still plenty of people who struggle with some enemies as it is.

That would not splitt the community directly since, accordng to this thread, more people would come back and enjoy overland content. Besides that - they are empty zones already (most of the time) and nobody cares because people tend to quest and explore in their own speed anyways. So besides world bosses & anchor locations which are always populated nothing would really change, that would have a negative impact.

Wbich regions are those which you deem to be empty - I would like to quest there then.

Steven19eighty101

Not trying to be negative or start an argument with anyone but I cant believe there are people on here saying the overland content cant be more challenging because tamriel is to big and complex or it wont attract new players, I mean if the content is lame its lame, no two ways about it. I understand the game needs to attract new players but what about us endgame players that have stuck with the game through thick and thin? That have spent 1000s of dollars on ESO plus? Don't we deserve a bit more?

There would definitely be a way to work it where there could be overland content for new and old players and everyone could have fun with it, nothing in this world is impossible and great minds that work together can achieve anything. You don't just chuck it in the to hard basket and say it cant be done. I feel like there must be so much hard work that goes into the storylines and voice acting etc but it all seems like a bit of a waste of time if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong I still love the game but I want that feeling when I used to play morrowwind and skyrim, walking into the last cavern in a delve and having a mage shout at me, "YOU WILL DIE," and having to fight to an inch of my life for that staff or sword in the last chest then going through all his drawers and shelves for goodies. Maybe I'm just selfish.

Sylvermynx

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

<snip>

Don't get me wrong I still love the game but I want that feeling when I used to play morrowwind and skyrim, walking into the last cavern in a delve and having a mage shout at me, "YOU WILL DIE," and having to fight to an inch of my life for that staff or sword in the last chest then going through all his drawers and shelves for goodies. Maybe I'm just selfish.

I've played every TES game since Arena release in 1994. Until about 10 years ago, I would have said that the single player games were hard - but doable; yeah, I had a lot of trouble with some - okay, all - of them.... because even my 40 year younger reflexes weren't.... great when it came to the TES versions of combat. [Caveat: I'm not really interested in combat at all; I prefer other ways of gaining experience, but those don't seem to exist in CRPGs/MMOs.]

But those asking for harder overland here (unless optional - and many are agreeing that it should be optional, though there are some who insist that "just ramp up difficulty overall" is the way to go) don't seem to think that people like me (I'm old, my reflexes aren't good - honestly outside of racing sports cars - never were, and my only available connection is satellite, where my average ping is 750+ms) should get to play a game that works for us.

Now I quite understand that those of you who want/need harder overland also need consideration. But "optional" is what works - for all of us. Please don't insist that the entire overland "must be increased in difficulty for everyone". If that happens, there's a fair bunch of us older players who will be leaving the game because.... as I keep saying.... I personally can't handle 3+ overland mobs, or quest bosses without a LOT of deaths and "try it again". It took me HOURS (literally) to kill Mulaamniir in Northern Elsweyr - not because I didn't know how to get into the shield, but because my ping is so high, even trying to "out-think" the lag generally meant I was dead before I got anywhere close to the shield (the only connection I have available is satellite - I'm 40 miles from the nearest "real broadband", and no, it's not getting here any time before I'm dead probably).

And Vandacia in Blackwood - sure, the Ambitions were "helping" - but again, my ping and slow reflexes meant I died at least 5 times (maybe more, I really don't know now), and honestly, I was just lucky I eventually got through that fight. Deadlands is way too hard for me - so yeah, not going to manage that entire questline, which is really a bummer.

I have said that if those who "require" harder overland for everyone are given that - that I will try it. But I'm pretty sure I already know how that's going to turn out.... I'll be gone from a game I love because I won't be able to effectively play it. I've been playing CRPGs since the mid-80s. Most of the type of games I really love (FCRPGs, and especially TES and ESO) aren't really in huge development any more unfortunately. So yes, I'd try it, but knowing my limitations, I'm going to say it will be, for me, a "swan song" of epic proportions.....

Steven19eighty101

[
But those asking for harder overland here (unless optional - and many are agreeing that it should be optional, though there are some who insist that "just ramp up difficulty overall" is the way to go) don't seem to think that people like me (I'm old, my reflexes aren't good - honestly outside of racing sports cars - never were, and my only available connection is satellite, where my average ping is 750+ms) should get to play a game that works for us.

Now I quite understand that those of you who want/need harder overland also need consideration. But "optional" is what works - for all of us. Please don't insist that the entire overland "must be increased in difficulty for everyone". If that happens, there's a fair bunch of us older players who will be leaving the game because.... as I keep saying.... I personally can't handle 3+ overland mobs, or quest bosses without a LOT of deaths and "try it again". It took me HOURS (literally) to kill Mulaamniir in Northern Elsweyr - not because I didn't know how to get into the shield, but because my ping is so high, even trying to "out-think" the lag generally meant I was dead before I got anywhere close to the shield (the only connection I have available is satellite - I'm 40 miles from the nearest "real broadband", and no, it's not getting here any time before I'm dead probably).

Hell I thought my 300 ping in New Zealand was bad lol. Fully agree it should be optional or some how split up, It would suck if new or lesser skilled players could still not enjoy it and the game would slowly die.

Steven19eighty101

Sorry need to learn how to snip properly, only the last 2 lines of last message are mine lol.

Sylvermynx

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

<snip>

Hell I thought my 300 ping in New Zealand was bad lol. Fully agree it should be optional or some how split up, It would suck if new or lesser skilled players could still not enjoy it and the game would slowly die.

Yeah, your ping isn't any good either (I have second cousins in both AU and NZ... they are NOT complimentary about the ping when it comes to games without AU/SEA servers) - and sure, I love where I live (or I would if it wasn't Utah....) with the cleanest air and water, the fewest neighbors for probably a 200 mile radius - but satellite it is, and it's not getting better. I'm sure it will eventually, but I'm not probably going to see it.

I'm all for a vet overland, as long as it's something each person can toggle as s/he wishes. I truly love playing this game (and beating my head on the single player TES games as well); not being able to play ESO would really.... upset me.

Steven19eighty101

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

<snip>

Hell I thought my 300 ping in New Zealand was bad lol. Fully agree it should be optional or some how split up, It would suck if new or lesser skilled players could still not enjoy it and the game would slowly die.

Yeah, your ping isn't any good either (I have second cousins in both AU and NZ... they are NOT complimentary about the ping when it comes to games without AU/SEA servers) - and sure, I love where I live (or I would if it wasn't Utah....) with the cleanest air and water, the fewest neighbors for probably a 200 mile radius - but satellite it is, and it's not getting better. I'm sure it will eventually, but I'm not probably going to see it.

I'm all for a vet overland, as long as it's something each person can toggle as s/he wishes. I truly love playing this game (and beating my head on the single player TES games as well); not being able to play ESO would really.... upset me.

Sounds like a nice place to live and a great attitude

Sylvermynx

Thanks @Steven19eighty101 - have a great day, and Happy New Year!

SilverBride

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

I understand the game needs to attract new players but what about us endgame players that have stuck with the game through thick and thin? That have spent 1000s of dollars on ESO plus? Don't we deserve a bit more?

Casual players spend just as much as end game players on ESO+ and the Crown Store, if not more. But it's not a matter of anyone deserving more than anyone else.

I don't understand why some players expect the questing zones to keep getting more powerful as they do. That's not how it works.

Edited to clarify.

Cireous

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would agree with stated above by Tony, it would be a major turn off for a new player also - overland is problematic not only for a "veteran" as we know. Punishing approach is something a small niche would surely enjoy but not a solution for the other part of players asking for a different kind of challenge. Probably some also see veteran content all along as punishment lol.

So it... might kinda work is in a single player instances but we don't have those and it's also impossible to implement one for each exact player. Imagine lagging more because zone also calculated it's weather for everyone now even not utilising this if forced yet again on everyone's experience this way. What if a last pot runned out out in a wilds? And if I'm a newbie, I probably would have none to begin with.

Would also need a separate inventory or have a zero weight which is also unrealistic because idem IDs are a thing that can clutter database as we also know. Something like a memento might be a gimmick for that I'd guess?

Then there should be no cooldown on such potions, as when you are about to die you probs would need to change your cold zone one for a no resurrection with soulgem one immediately, leading also for a probably separate quick slot wheel...
Yeah, a fun non punishing system right? Can continue on an on but see no point.

I can surely understand how those ideas gor flowing but that's very far from a lot of people's problems and solutions if looked close to, it would be nice addition for a roleplay community though but not for ones who find eso laughable and who shouldn't be using tens of hoops to enjoy it properly. People want to log in and play, not farming reagents/tokens to have % of their damage eaten out whilst persisting in current zones being a farm fest. That's roughly like One Tamriel patch to be an introduction of a potion boosting your damage output and that's it, you're together now lmao.

Fair enough. It's just something I thought of off the top of my head. I don't know why, but it occurred to me the that the negative effects in the Alchemy system have always been something we simply take Snakeblood to ignore, giving them no real value in the game. There is no point for their existence. So, adding (desired) debuffs there could change that, since a lot of us would kill for a way to legitimately debuff ourselves in the Overland, while still being able to use our fun armor sets. I, myself, even see problems with what I described because I would probably want every debuff they threw at us, and one potion would only give us, at most, 4.

But, whatever. However it eventually happens, I just want a system that allows for a few important things:

1. For it to be absolutely optional (as there is a very loyal, excited fanbase that wants things to remain exactly as they are)
2. For there to be some curation in the design. I don't think throwing up ONE difficulty setting in a Vet Overland instance or as a hardmode in delves or quest bosses is the answer. As we've seen from years of these threads being produced, everyone has a very different idea of just how difficult they want their difficulty to be. So, whatever is implemented, I just think there has to be some variety or choice involved. Whether that be sliders or potions, or mythics.

[Oh, and also, I slipped in Skyrim Survival mode-like debuffs into that Alchemy system and was giggling as I was doing it. I just don't think a lot of people are very aware of just how fun it is to battle harsh weather in an RPG. I doubt they would EVER add anything like that into ESO, though, but I would squeal out loud if they did. ]

Lysette

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

Hell I thought my 300 ping in New Zealand was bad lol. Fully agree it should be optional or some how split up, It would suck if new or lesser skilled players could still not enjoy it and the game would slowly die.

You guys got that sea cable to Hawaii - that makes it reasonably fast for the distance to overcome.

Steven19eighty101

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Thanks @Steven19eighty101 - have a great day, and Happy New Year!

Yeah same to you Sylvermynx, best wishes

Lysette

Cireous wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would agree with stated above by Tony, it would be a major turn off for a new player also - overland is problematic not only for a "veteran" as we know. Punishing approach is something a small niche would surely enjoy but not a solution for the other part of players asking for a different kind of challenge. Probably some also see veteran content all along as punishment lol.

So it... might kinda work is in a single player instances but we don't have those and it's also impossible to implement one for each exact player. Imagine lagging more because zone also calculated it's weather for everyone now even not utilising this if forced yet again on everyone's experience this way. What if a last pot runned out out in a wilds? And if I'm a newbie, I probably would have none to begin with.

Would also need a separate inventory or have a zero weight which is also unrealistic because idem IDs are a thing that can clutter database as we also know. Something like a memento might be a gimmick for that I'd guess?

Then there should be no cooldown on such potions, as when you are about to die you probs would need to change your cold zone one for a no resurrection with soulgem one immediately, leading also for a probably separate quick slot wheel...
Yeah, a fun non punishing system right? Can continue on an on but see no point.

I can surely understand how those ideas gor flowing but that's very far from a lot of people's problems and solutions if looked close to, it would be nice addition for a roleplay community though but not for ones who find eso laughable and who shouldn't be using tens of hoops to enjoy it properly. People want to log in and play, not farming reagents/tokens to have % of their damage eaten out whilst persisting in current zones being a farm fest. That's roughly like One Tamriel patch to be an introduction of a potion boosting your damage output and that's it, you're together now lmao.

Fair enough. It's just something I thought of off the top of my head. I don't know why, but it occurred to me the that the negative effects in the Alchemy system have always been something we simply take Snakeblood to ignore, giving them no real value in the game. There is no point for their existence. So, adding (desired) debuffs there could change that, since a lot of us would kill for a way to legitimately debuff ourselves in the Overland, while still being able to use our fun armor sets. I, myself, even see problems with what I described because I would probably want every debuff they threw at us, and one potion would only give us, at most, 4.

But, whatever. However it eventually happens, I just want a system that allows for a few important things:

1. For it to be absolutely optional (as there is a very loyal, excited fanbase that wants things to remain exactly as they are)
2. For there to be some curation in the design. I don't think throwing up ONE difficulty setting in a Vet Overland instance or as a hardmode in delves or quest bosses is the answer. As we've seen from years of these threads being produced, everyone has a very different idea of just how difficult they want their difficulty to be. So, whatever is implemented, I just think there has to be some variety or choice involved. Whether that be sliders or potions, or mythics.

[Oh, and also, I slipped in Skyrim Survival mode-like debuffs into that Alchemy system and was giggling as I was doing it. I just don't think a lot of people are very aware of just how fun it is to battle harsh weather in an RPG. I doubt they would EVER add anything like that into ESO, though, but I would squeal out loud if they did. ]

I agree on the hard weather conditions - I played Skyrim Winter Edition with Frostfall and Better Needs - it was freaking frigid pretty much everywhere - but what a blast when there was a sunny day in the Whiterun area - finally I could wear something else than fur and actually explore a little faster than normal - normal weather in that area is chilly - which is acceptable wrapped in fur - every few hours pitching a tent, cooking some soup to warm up again - all bearable - just when it was really frigid, that meant, I can just be out for like an hour and then I have to warm up somewhere again - it was freaking fun to play like this - I spoke to a lot of people about it - and NONE of them had any interest to play Skyrim like that - NONE.

I had as well the scenic carriages mod - no fast travel, but actually travelling in those carriages through the landscape - with Winter Edition and Frostfall I had to think, how long is the distance to the destination, how is the weather and will I stay warm enough on the open carriage until we arrive - the game played totally different with such weather conditions.

in ESO is a quest related to harsh frigid weather - walk above the clouds - in the Rift in the mountains south-east of Riften.

Sylvermynx

@Lysette - I and friends of mine did. Some of them still do. But they don't play Dead is Dead that way any more.... I'm using iNeeds during this challenge run playthrough: found items only for everything - no crafting, no perk points, no upgrading except for basics (and you can't make ingots out of ore, or leather out of pelts), unless you find something better - and yes, we're all having to meta-game because the rules are so stringent.... I'm at about 60 deaths so far - and most of those are to "upper" draugr - the dragon priests fall really fast to a 2H axe known as the Battleaxe of Fiery Souls which I and another player actually got without meta-gaming when the "letter from a friend" sent us to the word wall in Ironbind.

A couple of our group started out with Frostfall and iNeeds - but gave it up as just too hard. I'm still using iNeeds, but the inability to perk is giving me a lot of trouble when it comes to "upper level" draugr.

It's interesting - first time I've done this sort of thing.

Steven19eighty101

SilverBride wrote: »

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

I understand the game needs to attract new players but what about us endgame players that have stuck with the game through thick and thin? That have spent 1000s of dollars on ESO plus? Don't we deserve a bit more?

Casual players spend just as much as end game players on ESO+ and the Crown Store, if not more. But it's not a matter of anyone deserving more than anyone else.

I don't understand why some players expect the questing zones to keep getting more powerful as they do. That's not how it works.

Edited to clarify.

That's why it should be optional or split up some how so everyone can enjoy it (even if just a little piece of it) its well within their power to do it but I'm well aware everything revolves around maximum profit these days, that's the sad thing about the world That's the only reason that's not how it works.

Lysette

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Lysette - I and friends of mine did. Some of them still do. But they don't play Dead is Dead that way any more.... I'm using iNeeds during this challenge run playthrough: found items only for everything - no crafting, no perk points, no upgrading except for basics (and you can't make ingots out of ore, or leather out of pelts), unless you find something better - and yes, we're all having to meta-game because the rules are so stringent.... I'm at about 60 deaths so far - and most of those are to "upper" draugr - the dragon priests fall really fast to a 2H axe known as the Battleaxe of Fiery Souls which I and another player actually got without meta-gaming when the "letter from a friend" sent us to the word wall in Ironbind.

A couple of our group started out with Frostfall and iNeeds - but gave it up as just too hard. I'm still using iNeeds, but the inability to perk is giving me a lot of trouble when it comes to "upper level" draugr.

It's interesting - first time I've done this sort of thing.

Yeah frostfall is ok - just with the winter edition of skyrim it gets really harsh - it is important to have the right gear - really warm stuff when it is frigid - otherwise the weather will kill you quicker than enemies could - and staying dry is key as well - so you need the right cloak for the weather condition - over time one adapts to the weather, there is something like a skill line built in in Frostfall, which makes things over time more bearable - but until then, you can hardly wear anything else than fur, simply because if you don't, you have not much time left for exploration and have to warm up too often.

Playing survival style Skyrim is quite different from playing the vanilla game - and no, dragon breath is not warming one up, that is magic heat which isn't real but an illusion.

I remember for example arriving in Windhelm (sorry, not Winterhold) coming from the north-east - I was already pretty cold, but to get into the city, I had to cross the river first - I knew, when I will go into the river, it will suck the rest heat out of my body, will slow me down massively, and the wetness of my clothes will eventually not allow me to overcome those few dozens meters to the stable, where I could warm up - but I had no wood anymore, and trees are not that many there and I was so cold already, so I decided to go through the river - oh man, that slowed my down to a crawl after leaving the water, hypothermia gripped on me really hard, I made it to the door of the stable, but I could not open it anymore, the harsh weather has gotten into me that much, that I died in front of the stable door.

Steven19eighty101

Lysette wrote: »

Steven19eighty101 wrote: »

Hell I thought my 300 ping in New Zealand was bad lol. Fully agree it should be optional or some how split up, It would suck if new or lesser skilled players could still not enjoy it and the game would slowly die.

You guys got that sea cable to Hawaii - that makes it reasonably fast for the distance to overcome.

Yeah its not to bad to be honest, sorta helps that fibre has been rolled out most places here now to, I don't play PVP and doesn't seem to be to much lag while parsing

newtinmpls

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

I would always go back to help others in their time of need, even if it meant helping a dude at a newbie level dolmen.

Thank you for your kind words!

Lysette wrote: »

I think Rich made a valid point this is my experience with MMOs as well - players go for gain per hour and not fun per hour.

I think that may or may not be true of MMO players in general, but MMORPG players are a slightly different group; and TES players are different yet.

RPG has no "gain per hour" in measurable money, items, wealth

Lysette wrote: »

If people would prioritize fun per hour there wouldn't be complains about grind

I think you have it backwards - it is BECAUSE people are prioritizing "fun per hour" OVER "gain per hour" that grinding is disliked. A lot of the folks who wander about overland BECAUSE it is not really hard, do so because they like it - fun per hour.

A lot of the folks who DON'T wander overland do it for the same reason/principle - what they CHOOSE is what has the highest "fun per hour" for THEM.

A gazillion peeps have quoted Lambert:
We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it.

And there is still disagreement about what this means, practically speaking.

I think that what it means is that IF something appears to enough people - demonstrably - as in "lots of people are doing it" THEN ZoS will make more of it. ESPECIALLY if they can charge for it.

This has been easy to see in:
Costumes
Housing
Companions (initially as furnishings, now as "side" adventures)
Bankers
Merchants
Outfits

So IF there was some sort of 'toggle' to change overland difficulty AND you could pay per character, would people pay for it?

A "no CP" toggle?
A "weather really matters and you take damage in snowy areas" toggle (based on a Skyrim mod "Frostfall")?
A "random debuff" (call it the Cheese curse) toggle?
A "animals are more dangerous" (based on the Skyrim "Realistic Animals and Predators") meaning wolves come in larger packs (more than just the "extra two" that die easy) or that after 1/2 damage they run away.
An "organized bandits" mod (another Skyrim steal) (you can encounter highwaymen in large groups that shake you down for money, and if you don't have enough they attack (and taunts and pulls don't work for long, they all run out of AoE damage)

Lysette

The problem is, that they don't want to feel like a newbie in a newbie area - and have a challenge at the same time. To have this challenge in a newbie area they need to be even worse than those newbies are, which contradicts their first request.

It might never happen like they want it to happen, simply because their requests are contradicting themselves. Either there is more challenge, then they will feel worse than a newbie - or it will not be challenging, then they can feel better than an newbie does, - both at the same time is not possible without to change overland that much, that it requires basically separate servers. And with the attitude, ZOS should please them without extra paying them, it won't happen at all - they want something for free, what is difficult to do and costs ZOS money - so how likely is that to happen then?

newtinmpls

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

If they implement an option that overland content (biggest part of the game) offers some fun for me, I am willing to buy more stuff from the CS. As simple as that. There is your gain.

No, they are unrelated.

If you see something in the CS, and buy it - you have reinforced "making cool stuff in the CS" and this has no impact on calculations for other parts of the game.

Casdha wrote: »

The only ones who were out leveling zones "easily" at the time were the ones who spent a lot of hours in PvP,

PvP players may well have outleveled things, but they were NOT the only ones.

As I mentioned earlier, my bestie and I liked to do every side quest, explore every delve, contribute to every dolmen - and when the world was "divided into levels" we outleveled stuff really fast. Vet levels came - and IT GOT WORSE not better.

Lysette

newtinmpls wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

I would always go back to help others in their time of need, even if it meant helping a dude at a newbie level dolmen.

Thank you for your kind words!

Lysette wrote: »

I think Rich made a valid point this is my experience with MMOs as well - players go for gain per hour and not fun per hour.

I think that may or may not be true of MMO players in general, but MMORPG players are a slightly different group; and TES players are different yet.

RPG has no "gain per hour" in measurable money, items, wealth

Lysette wrote: »

If people would prioritize fun per hour there wouldn't be complains about grind

I think you have it backwards - it is BECAUSE people are prioritizing "fun per hour" OVER "gain per hour" that grinding is disliked. A lot of the folks who wander about overland BECAUSE it is not really hard, do so because they like it - fun per hour.

A lot of the folks who DON'T wander overland do it for the same reason/principle - what they CHOOSE is what has the highest "fun per hour" for THEM.

A gazillion peeps have quoted Lambert:
We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it.

And there is still disagreement about what this means, practically speaking.

I think that what it means is that IF something appears to enough people - demonstrably - as in "lots of people are doing it" THEN ZoS will make more of it. ESPECIALLY if they can charge for it.

This has been easy to see in:
Costumes
Housing
Companions (initially as furnishings, now as "side" adventures)
Bankers
Merchants
Outfits

So IF there was some sort of 'toggle' to change overland difficulty AND you could pay per character, would people pay for it?

A "no CP" toggle?
A "weather really matters and you take damage in snowy areas" toggle (based on a Skyrim mod "Frostfall")?
A "random debuff" (call it the Cheese curse) toggle?
A "animals are more dangerous" (based on the Skyrim "Realistic Animals and Predators") meaning wolves come in larger packs (more than just the "extra two" that die easy) or that after 1/2 damage they run away.
An "organized bandits" mod (another Skyrim steal) (you can encounter highwaymen in large groups that shake you down for money, and if you don't have enough they attack (and taunts and pulls don't work for long, they all run out of AoE damage)

these are good ideas though.

ZOS_Icy

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