Overland Content Feedback Thread

Franchise408

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Then don't play it. The game is certainly not something to be in if you do not enjoy it at all.

I would not say that if you were asking for specific Quality of Life changes, as I have many times, but just not enjoying it shouldn't be solved by making it bad for most other players.

Adding optional content that others will never have to opt in to - using means that are already used in the game - is not making the game worse for anyone.

Parasaurolophus

First, thanks to @ZOS_Kevin for officially providing us with this thread where we can share the feedback. But I would like to remind the players that this is precisely the feedback thread, where we just speak in detail about our impressions, and do not argue with each other. Past threads were closed because players were actively arguing with each other. I would not want this to happen again. Especially in the official feedback thread. Thanks!
I see how much has been said on this topic on both sides. But I really have something to say. I'll just try to be original and share a few of my thoughts that I haven't seen in this thread.

This game is not like the classic The Elder Scrolls series game. When ESO realise, it received a lot of unfair critic. One of the points of such unfair critics was that this is not Skyrim online. However, the further Skyrim went into history, the better the public looked at ESO. However, ZoS touts ESO as a classic in the series that will give us that Morrowind / Oblivion / Skyrim experience. Although it makes no sense to explain for a long time why you should not compare an online project with a solo game, I still say that exploration, questing, storytelling, looting, combat, leveling in any classic RPG work together, creating a deep immersion experience for the players. But in ESO, each gameplay element exists separately:

- There is no exploration in ESO. Remember how you accidentally discovered caves or ancestral tombs, where we could find something interesting, such as a unique item or quest. How dragon claws were found from an unknown nordic tomb. ESO has simple POI compliments and nothing more.

- No looting. We are not happy with a new sword found in a chest or 10 gold coins dropped from a robber. ESO has a farming.

- And questing is more like a visual novel than an RPG questing.

But this is an MMO, right? No one expects that mmo will give us the same experience as a classic RPG. But the problem is that this game is not similar to either the classic RPG or the classic MMO. As many have already said that questing is like a visual novel, where we run from marker to marker, just to continue the story. It’s even more like reading comics for me, because I don’t feel like I’m involved in the story at all.
In an interview, Rich Lambert was asked what would he change in the game in the very early stages of development? And he replied that he would try to make this game more like the Elder Scrolls than an MMO. And looking at Fallout76, I understand why. Fallot76 looks like Betheda`s Fallout, plays like Bethesda`s Fallout, feels like Betheda`s Fallout, smells like Betheda`s Fallout. ESO feels, looks and plays like an MMO. It's not bad for itself. But i also expect something different from the game, which is mmo.

Who are casual players really? No, these are not the players who play only questing and housing, and are afraid of any challenge. No. These are the players involved in the game as well as the powerplayers. And I love them, really! But Rich once said that the average play time for the average ESO player is only six weeks. I would be surprised, but I often hear game analysts say that only a small part of players, who buying games, complete them to the end. And it is true. Open Steam, open any popular and hyped game of the last years, and look at the percentage of players who received achievements for completing the game? What percentage of players also received other different achievements besides the achievements for completing the first stages of the game? Usually the value does not exceed 15-20%. I don't know for sure, but it seems like on consoles there is an opportunity to see what percentage of players received certain achievements. I remember how this information just surprised me at first. I thought how could this be true? Buy a game and do almost nothing there? How? But I was convinced of this later.
Now, let's forget about the difficulty of mobs for a while, okay? Let's imagine that this is not the main topic, then:

- If the main problem for Craglorn was the difficulty of mobs and bosses, then why did ZoS abandon the concept of Adventure Zones entirely? After all, ZoS could continue to develop locations with a lot of content, many different activities, several mini dungeons like the Shada`s Tear or Skyrich?

- If overland content is for storytelling, then why did ZoS abandon the concept of long lines of side quests? Remember of the quests in Morrowind about Sun-in-Shadows or Veya Releth. These are beautiful long stories that remain in the memory. But why did ZoS give up on this? Why ZoS returned to the concept of a large number of short quests? Why isn't this already in Clockwork? Did the players hate these quests? It seems not, I have only met good reviews.

As you can see, the reason is far from being difficult. The vast majority of players have never completed most of the content. And not because it is difficult. It's just that the "life cycle" of such a player is very short. Such a player will buy a game or dlc, play a little, maybe pay some extra money, and then leave. And maybe, maybe it will return to q4 dlc. Yes, the concept of "year story", which has been criticized a lot lately, is based on this. That is why we do not get satisfaction by completing the main quest in the chapter, when we are shown how the bigboss simply leaves us. And then we have to wait for him for another six months. Aslo, this is not a problem for me. I'm fine with a year-long story. I think the problem is with the quality of the writing, not the concept. But that's a different topic.
Also, in 2016, it seems Matt Firor said in an interview that the biggest peaks in population occur with the release of new dlc, mainly due to returning players. There is also every reason to believe that it is for this purpose that events are held too often in the game. I also think that the delayed release of new motives in each new chapter and dlc is an attempt to keep the population in new content.
And ZoS just optimized the development. Why create a content-rich overland if most of the players just never see it? Of course, by reducing the amount of content per location and making it trivial, ZoS increased the completion rate. But it only hurt the content. So it turns out that overland is content for players who play very little and are not involved. Quests are not just trivial. They are short. 20 minutes each. I completed the entire Blackwood area in four evenings. I have already completed all the side quests in Deadlands in one evening. But I'm a big fan of TES and I carefully read every dialogue, every note and book I find. I'm not saying we need more quests. No. It's just that after I complete all the quests, the location becomes useless to me. Literally tomorrow, maybe the day after tomorrow, I will complete Deadlands and never return there. Daily quests? Zerging bosses and running around delves is hardly fun. I'd rather buy the motives later. I only get achievements when I get bored.
So I think the problem of overland is far from just only difficulty. ZoS as a whole approaches overland creation too sparingly and it is felt after two or three completed locations. I am not going to judge whether ZoS could really create content that could keep different types of players for months, or whether this approach to attracting fickle casual players is just a necessary measure. I do not know.

Times before One Tamriel. One of the biggest things that surprises me about these threads is that some players say there was once a veteran overland in the game. Even Rich Lambert said that. And this is ... very ... strange. I have been playing since November 2014 and I remember those times very well. And I say that there has never been a real difficult overland in eso. It does not matter at all what level you have, 10lvl or 10 vet. rank, all mobs on your level/rank have always had the same difficulty. You just had to meet the level requirement, but no more. Therefore, the statement that eso became more popular because the difficulty was nerfed is highly doubtful. One Tamriel did a lot of the right things, it really is. But there was never a difficult overland in the game, there was just compulsory leveling. Why was the vanilla eso a failure? Well, this is a separate topic, but there are a lot of reasons. For me personally, this game was saved by the release of veteran dungeons and new, better quality dlc. Only Craglorn was truly a veteran zone. I won't say why the players didn't like Craglorn then, other players have talked about it a lot earlier. But yeah, having to group up for quests annoyed me too. I would like to say about Imperial City. There are many examples where the pvp / pve concept is perfectly implemented. However, due to some bad design decisions, IC is dead. So is Craglorn. There are many mmo where there is an interesting overland and where difficulties work well. For what reason this just cannot exist in eso, I do not understand.

Look at the concept of the Adventure Zone again. For me personally, this is the most ideal option. Although, I will be glad to any movement towards to more difficult overland content. I think that the best solution would be to release new locations, with the option to switch modes like in dung/trials. Fewer mobs, but more dangerous. Remove delves. Make four or five dungeons like Shada's Tear or Skyreach with daily quests. We need more different activities. And the main thing, of course, is a switch so that players who only want to go through quests could do it calmly. But even such players would have more to do in this type of overland.
Do two or three side questlines, like in Vvardenfell, 3-4 quests each. Instead of two dozen short quests, which are then hard to remember.

Rewards? I don't see anything wrong with expecting a balance between effort and reward in video games. We already have monster helmets, perfect sets, SS and RG mounts, guaranteed motif drops. It can even be just achievements. But suppose it could be some special sets. Or, for example, cosmetic rewards that would be collected from 100 shards. In veteran mode, more shards would simply be dropped. In general, I do not think that this is a desperate situation and that no balance can be found here.

But this is my personal opinion. Anyway, I will support any other solution for a more amusing overland.

A few more thoughts:

- All players who love TES want to play overland. We want to return to these beautiful locations, do tasks and walk there. But we do not want this pastime to feel like something useless and trivial.

- Yes, quests really only complete once. But the fact that they are completed by the players does not mean that it was a pleasant experience for them. We want questing to be a fun experience for us.

- Challenging combat isn't the only way to make overland and questing more fun.

- Plucking the Crow was a good experience for me. The boss had some pretty basic mechanics, but they made me move and heal. I was pleased.

- I'm waiting for fewer people in Deadlands to try to fight the walking bosses.

- I would not go back to old zones and replay old quests just because the mobs there have become more hardy. I think it's worth focusing on new content.

- Although the idea of giving players the opportunity to replay zones again seems very good to me.

- I liked the difficulty slider in Skyrim. At the highest difficulty, the mobs did not have a lot of hp. But they did a lot of damage. This made the fight not long, but risky and fun.

-Why are we doing more difficult content? Because we want to be distracted. To turn my attention away from problems into play. But we cannot do this because the process is so easy an lame that we do not need to concentrate and we cannot focus on the game. When I play eso overland or questing, I turn on YouTube, think about my life, because I cannot immerse myself in the game. Also, many people go to the gym to relax and unwind. Strange isn't it?

Thanks! I feel heard.

umagon

The way looting bosses in over land and public dungeons needs to change. The top 10 dps requirement needs to be removed. Tanks rarely get to get loot the boss if they are outside of a group. For example, the new deadlands content as a tank it’s hard to collect the leads from the bosses.

I find it completely unfair that a tank can hold, position and debuff the roaming bosses/world bosses and receive no award for their efforts. And seeing the nature of the overland events are to be spontaneous requiring an organized group to receive awards from them doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Toxic_Hemlock

Bottom line for me anyways is this:

OPTIONAL is fine, forced is not!

If it is truly optional it will not effect me in any way from current, I.E. no new AI, health points etc..
If it is not then ESO will just turn into a crafting simulator where even gathering will become a HUGE PITA.

Don't get me wrong as I enjoy crafting in ESO, but if even the simplest things like collecting a survey becomes a chore I'm out. Having to defeat the same wolf over and over again just to gather enough is bad enough IMO, doing so against an enemy that takes much longer is NOT, nor will it ever be, FUN (again only IMO).

Your mileage may vary but I suspect the very first time a player has to defeat many enemies of a much higher caliber just to go from A to B, they too will just give up.

As I have said in the past, It is fine if you want this type of challenge added and in fact I can see nothing wrong with asking for it. Just leave people like me out of your machinations' by ONLY making it optional and I'll be happy.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

I don't buy what Rich is selling about "it's not that simple". It's a cop-out answer from a dev that doesn't want to show commitment to a change before they have decided upon it. So it's easy to say "it's not that simple"

Remastering a game can take years when you're working on a dead game that doesn't require new updates, why on Earth would you think that's a simple solution here?

The only simple solution is debuff food and most of the people asking for a VOL won't be satisified with that for the most part.

Adding new mechanics to all the overland content on the game would be an enormous undertaking. During that time it would probably be impossible to make new stuff for everyone else.

spartaxoxo

Youyouz06 wrote: »

In terms of difficulty:
I don't think anyone here wants something that can 'One shot' them whilst farming/questing/discovering/whatever, so let us all try and be realistic when we imagine what overland difficulty could be like. Even if it was ramped up just a little bit so that some players could do a two bar rotation or possibly 'kite' (move around whilst fighting), that could already be enough.

If there's not new mechanics, then it's just gonna be a slog like Craglorn to a lot of people. So they wouldn't even use VOL. They want new mechs or nothing.

Ravensilver

Franchise408 wrote: »

Why don't we deserve to have engaging story content as well?

I still don't understand what you mean when you say "engaging story content".

Please describe to me what this would look like.

So there you are, arriving at a new wayshrine... a quest waits for you...

... how does the story continue for you?

SimonThesis

Those saying the they dont want minor mobs to be too difficult imagine when you never even notice the wolves because your pets kill them and then you one shot everything you come across including the boss. It gets boring fast. I think it should scale more accurately. I wish Overland mobs scaled higher up to cp 3600 and scaled to your gear and were more like the guards in cyrodiil. The cyrodiil guards will negate you, run all around, pop a health potion, stun you, chain you etc. They do things, they don't sit there and die instantly unless your a bomber.

Kwoung

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

In terms of difficulty:
I don't think anyone here wants something that can 'One shot' them whilst farming/questing/discovering/whatever, so let us all try and be realistic when we imagine what overland difficulty could be like. Even if it was ramped up just a little bit so that some players could do a two bar rotation or possibly 'kite' (move around whilst fighting), that could already be enough.

If there's not new mechanics, then it's just gonna be a slog like Craglorn to a lot of people. So they wouldn't even use VOL. They want new mechs or nothing.

New mechanics are new, for about a day, then they are old mechanics everyone knows, where to stand, when to block, interrupt, etc... I honestly find mechanics extremely boring. I had to memorize the ghosts paths to beat Pacman back in the day... the mechanics in ESO are basically no different from that at all... booooring.

At best, they would cut and paste 6 new mechanics on all the overland encounters, and it would quickly become very dull..

Toxic_Hemlock

SimonThesis wrote: »

I wish Overland Mobs were more like the guards in cyrodiil, they'll negate you, run all around, pop a health potion, chain you etc. They do things they don't sit there and die instantly unless your a bomber.

I see this playing out as such:

I am on a quest to defeat the big bad that lives in a tower and he/she is surrounded by guards...
I gather my best <insert weapon here> and venture forward to save the city/town/area from the tyranny of said big bad...
After a long hard ride I come across said tower only to be faced by a couple said guards that proceed to dispatch me with little difficulty, over and over and over...

I think to myself if these are just the guards, then the boss must be far too much for me to handle.

I go back to town and tell the good people I'm out (abandon quest).

Again many may want this type of challenge, but I'm happier when I don't have to prove my frailty to the townsfolks on some random quest.

Edit to add: if optional, again, I'm good with it.

Kwoung

Ravensilver wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Why don't we deserve to have engaging story content as well?

I still don't understand what you mean when you say "engaging story content".

Please describe to me what this would look like.

So there you are, arriving at a new wayshrine... a quest waits for you...

... how does the story continue for you?

Good luck with that. I am wondering the same thing, about pretty much everything in this thread. There are a lot of requests for Meaningful, Engaging, Challenging, Exciting, Etc... which are basically all just concepts and seriously, things ZOS already feels the game is.

Until players get very specific about what they actually want and mean by those vague concepts, there is very little chance anything will happen. And if it did, it would be ZOS's idea of what those concepts mean, not the players asking for them. Keeping in mind, that ZOS already feels their game offers all those things.

Just asking for Veteran Overland that is solo, is confusing. By definition, vet content in ESO, isn't solo content, it can be soloed by some, but it wasn't designed to be.

AzuraFan

SimonThesis wrote: »

Those saying the they dont want minor mobs to be too difficult imagine when you never even notice the wolves because your pets kill them...

Actually, I love this. I love that my bear and companion can handle stuff for me while I'm fishing, checking my map or inventory, harvesting something, whatever. For me, overland is about story questing, exploration, and resource gathering. I don't really want to be fighting mobs every 10 seconds, so I'm glad my mount is fast enough that I can travel around zones doing whatever I want and avoid 99% of combat (because I find combat tedious, regardless of whether it's a 1 hp mudcrab or a world boss. Same difference to me in terms of enjoyment).

As I've said previously in the thread, I'm fine with OPTIONAL changes to overland, though I think the devs' time would be better spent elsewhere. Anything not optional, like roving megabosses that will interrupt my fishing and be hard to avoid, will have me signing out of ESO for the last time.

Ravensilver

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

[snipsnipsnip]

Sorry... I snipped everything, because it was too long.

But you basically said the same thing that I did somewhere in the beginning of the thread.

If players are feeling underwhelmed, then we don't need harder hitting mobs all over the place. We need content. And content isn't constant fighting of mobs.

I agree totally with you, that we need more exploration. We need longer questlines (I've been stretching the main quest line by holding off, just so I don't complete them too quickly as I did in Blackwood). We need stories that actually go over days and weeks and months.
We need exploration, not invisible walls. Like... what's that hole over there? Oh no! I've fallen into another dimension! How do I get back out? I need to find a key... who can help me?

I love the idea of random dynamic events happening that someone mentioned earlier. Why not random invasions in old zones? Or projects that the entire player base works on together (there was a game called Horizons that had that and it was great - everyone working together to open up new zones, to uncover secrets, to build cities etc. - the crafters, the harvesters, the fighters to protect and so on).

I am a little disappointed that there is so little to explore in the Deadlands. Either invisible walls, or everything's pretty empty.

Yes, dynamic content, that would be the ticket for me.

And by the way, I absolutely hate Craglorn, because you can't take two steps without having to fight huge mob groups all the time. That... gets very tiring after a while and also very, very boring. ^^;;

Sylvermynx

AzuraFan wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Those saying the they dont want minor mobs to be too difficult imagine when you never even notice the wolves because your pets kill them...

Actually, I love this. I love that my bear and companion can handle stuff for me while I'm fishing, checking my map or inventory, harvesting something, whatever. For me, overland is about story questing, exploration, and resource gathering. I don't really want to be fighting mobs every 10 seconds, so I'm glad my mount is fast enough that I can travel around zones doing whatever I want and avoid 99% of combat (because I find combat tedious, regardless of whether it's a 1 hp mudcrab or a world boss. Same difference to me in terms of enjoyment).

As I've said previously in the thread, I'm fine with OPTIONAL changes to overland, though I think the devs' time would be better spent elsewhere. Anything not optional, like roving megabosses that will interrupt my fishing and be hard to avoid, will have me signing out of ESO for the last time.

QFT - pretty much how I feel. Optional is fine with me.

spartaxoxo

Kwoung wrote: »

Just asking for Veteran Overland that is solo, is confusing. By definition, vet content in ESO, isn't solo content, it can be soloed by some, but it wasn't designed to be.

Hard disagree on that. Solo Arenas showcase what solo vet content looks like and they are super fun.

Except the minotaur in Vet Vateshran Hollows, fetch that guy.

Kwoung

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Just asking for Veteran Overland that is solo, is confusing. By definition, vet content in ESO, isn't solo content, it can be soloed by some, but it wasn't designed to be.

Hard disagree on that. Solo Arenas showcase what solo vet content looks like and they are super fun.

Except the minotaur in Vet Vateshran Hollows, fetch that guy.

Yes, I forgot the arenas... my bad. But even then, they can be solo, because they are limited to a single player and scaled as such. How do you achieve that in a zone open to hundreds? If scaled to a solo player, it will be more joke content to groups and provide no challenge, no? And even as Rich said, players will always find the most effective way to achieve anything, so groups would be the standard in short order, rendering the challenge a moot point.

Toxic_Hemlock

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Just asking for Veteran Overland that is solo, is confusing. By definition, vet content in ESO, isn't solo content, it can be soloed by some, but it wasn't designed to be.

Hard disagree on that. Solo Arenas showcase what solo vet content looks like and they are super fun.

Except the minotaur in Vet Vateshran Hollows, fetch that guy.

"Fun" here is ambiguous and specific to the person. I didn't find dying multiple times fun when I tried to do the solo arenas, same as I wouldn't find any fun in a forced vet overland. At this point I don't even bother trying to get better gear over crafted and overland. And honestly I'm good with that as I know my limitations.

edit: clarity

JJOtterBear

Vet overland:

since this is a special request being made by a minority of players, it should be 100% optional. And it should not have any special rewards. Maybe increased frequency of loot drops are fine. But the quality of said drops would still be beholden to RNG. No guaranteed purples or golds.

No increased gold. We don't need the economy to be controlled by this minority. we don't need a subset of players having an economic advantage either.

Everything else still determined by RNG.

If you are requesting this for the challenge, then the challenge and accomplishment from overcoming that challenge should be reward enough. especially since this is a request for a small group of the playerbase.

and again, since we are here talking about things minority of players want, then its time to revisit the idea of a PvE Cyrodiil/Imperial City. Which would also be optional and include no special rewards. but allow people that want to go go there, but not engage in PVP to be there peacefully.

If people wanting more challenge can't enjoy that without getting something, then its not challenge they are really looking for. they just want stuff for bragging rights. if people don't want vet overland without better rewards, then this is a pointless discussion.

and again, as others have mentioned here, once these bored, super skilled players find a way to overcome the challenging content, what then? we just have to listen to them whine on the forums for all eternity? and waht if ZOS doesn;t do it EXACTLY as these players want it? just endless threads bashing ZOS? UGH.

colossalvoids

Sorry but all those "minority request, so no x y z" is not for you to decide, not in a slightest. Vet HM trials or arenas are also minority content, so what? Companions with pita achievements. Housing. Armory as a new system? Anything really. It's all minority requests as majority of players just played for a week and goes for a better or flashier games.

We're all minorities here and let's not pretend otherwise.

It's also a feedback thread so they can see if there's a problem for a group of players with current releases and what they can draw from it it's not for us to decide. How's and why's are on them.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

Vet HM trials or arenas are also minority content, so what?

Those are designed specifically for end game players looking for a challenge, so they exist for a completely different reason. Overland is for everyone who plays, so it has to remain at a difficulty that everyone can succeed at.

Even an optional veteran overland would take way too much time and resources away from the rest of the game for a minority who may or may not even utilize it.

JJOtterBear

colossalvoids wrote: »

Sorry but all those "minority request, so no x y z" is not for you to decide, not in a slightest. Vet HM trials or arenas are also minority content, so what? Companions with pita achievements. Housing. Armory as a new system? Anything really. It's all minority requests as majority of players just played for a week and goes for a better or flashier games.

We're all minorities here and let's not pretend otherwise.

It's also a feedback thread so they can see if there's a problem for a group of players with current releases and what they can draw from it it's not for us to decide. How's and why's are on them.

its actually feedback from everyone, and not just the people that want this. this thread is for feedback from all sides of this topic. and no, we're not all minorities here, because a vast majority of players have no issues with this game. Whether you choose to accept that or not, doesn't change the fact.

Because for many more people, whether you accept that or not, the game is fine as is. some people being dissatisfied does not equate to there being an actual problem. people need to stop thinking that their feelings equal facts. not everyone is going to be happy. And is not something that should tried to be achieved because that's when we start losing quality.

also my post did not say "its a minority, so they can't have this." i was saying that because this change would only be for a smaller group of players, it should not come with special rewards or economic advantages. You all want this for the challenge, so the challenge is all that should come with it, should ZOS implement this.

Sylvermynx

Actually, none of us (players) have any idea at all how many other players are on each "side". People need to stop saying anything except about themselves in regard to this.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

I wouldn't call 2 shotting quest bosses and overland mobs succeeding. I'd call that absolutely laughable and boring. Not even close to being fun.

I find that completely fun and satisfying. I love that I can actually feel like the hero. And this is where the problem lies. These are our opinions, which do carry some weight to a degree. But do enough players want a veteran overland to justify the huge amount of work it would take to implement?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Do the developers have any feedback they are willing to share at this point?

EDIT: I want to add, as I've stated before, I am all for a debuff for general overland mobs and the option for veteran level story bosses for those who would like that.

Silver, you say this all the time, but "fun is subjective." It is great that you can enjoy clearing any threat away with a constant power fantasy in your game, but for many players that is almost insulting. As others have said, even seeing what our enemies can do is a rarity because they die so fast, so what point is there in suspense in a year-long story when you know full well the big bad at the end will just die without issue, that the dangerous locations we visit will only be a danger if we look away from our screens and ride off a cliff? Fun is subjective, yet every piece of pve content in the game has an optional harder mode, except for overland, and no matter how much we self nerf our enemies being so inept will continue to lead to this.

SilverBride

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Actually, none of us (players) have any idea at all how many other players are on each "side". People need to stop saying anything except about themselves in regard to this.

"I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things." - Rich Lambert

SimonThesis

It's not that we want everything to be a challenge, its that everything gets one shot and Its boring, it should take take at least a few skills to kill monsters. Why have overland combat at all then if everything is killed in under a second? Maybe we should have an optional mob free overland so that people can just quest and enjoy the story.

Sylvermynx

SilverBride wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Actually, none of us (players) have any idea at all how many other players are on each "side". People need to stop saying anything except about themselves in regard to this.

"I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things." - Rich Lambert

That's not numbers, that's a non-substantive statement from someone who (apparently) didn't really want to get into detail. Regardless, this is NOT an "argument" thread - it's a discussion thread.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Actually, none of us (players) have any idea at all how many other players are on each "side". People need to stop saying anything except about themselves in regard to this.

The devs have said that the majority doesn't want harder content and avoids it, which they can see by their play data.

Sylvermynx

I repeat:

Sylvermynx wrote: »

That's not numbers, that's a non-substantive statement from someone who (apparently) didn't really want to get into detail. Regardless, this is NOT an "argument" thread - it's a discussion thread.

Cirantille

If you are going to make it harder make it optional please.

Overland is where I find relaxation and exploration after being burned out by harder content.

Last thing I want is to struggle over lore-ful quests.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I repeat:

Sylvermynx wrote: »

That's not numbers, that's a non-substantive statement from someone who (apparently) didn't really want to get into detail. Regardless, this is NOT an "argument" thread - it's a discussion thread.

It doesn't have to be a number to indicate the majority. It shouldn't really need to start an argument to acknowledge information the devs have given us.