Overland Content Feedback Thread

Sylvermynx

The kind of active punishment I won't play is "harder more challenging overland". Optional? Fine. Forced? Nope.

Hallothiel

Comparing a single player rpg with an MMO rpg is no a valid comparison.

Also, didn’t Skyrim have a choice as to difficulty (as most SINGLE PLAYER games do)? And iirc, once you got to a certain level, the game was ‘easy’ as your gear & skills were op?

Because I refuse to play content that feels like active punishment to me, which is what the mind numbingly easy overland is. It is punishment for me to endure.

But for a lot of people it is not ‘mind numbingly easy’. And that is the crux - apparently that’s the majority (or so Rich has said).

spartaxoxo

Hallothiel wrote: »

Comparing a single player rpg with an MMO rpg is no a valid comparison.

Also, didn’t Skyrim have a choice as to difficulty (as most SINGLE PLAYER games do)? And iirc, once you got to a certain level, the game was ‘easy’ as your gear & skills were op?

Because I refuse to play content that feels like active punishment to me, which is what the mind numbingly easy overland is. It is punishment for me to endure.

But for a lot of people it is not ‘mind numbingly easy’. And that is the crux - apparently that’s the majority (or so Rich has said).

Not only did Skyrim get incredibly easy when you were a Vet, but Skyrim became much more successful than either Oblivion or Morrrowind because it was significantly easier than those games.

One of the more popular mods was also debuffs to players that made the game much harder. Because that accomplishes the same exact thing as merely buffing the adds without asking the devs to overhaul the entire game

SilverBride

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

Blackbird_V

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Comparing a single player rpg with an MMO rpg is no a valid comparison.

Also, didn’t Skyrim have a choice as to difficulty (as most SINGLE PLAYER games do)? And iirc, once you got to a certain level, the game was ‘easy’ as your gear & skills were op?

Because I refuse to play content that feels like active punishment to me, which is what the mind numbingly easy overland is. It is punishment for me to endure.

But for a lot of people it is not ‘mind numbingly easy’. And that is the crux - apparently that’s the majority (or so Rich has said).

Not only did Skyrim get incredibly easy when you were a Vet, but Skyrim became much more successful than either Oblivion or Morrrowind because it was significantly easier than those games.

One of the more popular mods was also debuffs to players that made the game much harder.

In Skyrim one could choose difficulty, and mods also helped there with the popularity.

Thanks for unwittingly agreeing with us, since in Skyrim you could chose difficulty. Not to mention some mods could add more difficulty like hypothermia, hunger etc.

spartaxoxo

Blackbird_V wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Comparing a single player rpg with an MMO rpg is no a valid comparison.

Also, didn’t Skyrim have a choice as to difficulty (as most SINGLE PLAYER games do)? And iirc, once you got to a certain level, the game was ‘easy’ as your gear & skills were op?

Because I refuse to play content that feels like active punishment to me, which is what the mind numbingly easy overland is. It is punishment for me to endure.

But for a lot of people it is not ‘mind numbingly easy’. And that is the crux - apparently that’s the majority (or so Rich has said).

Not only did Skyrim get incredibly easy when you were a Vet, but Skyrim became much more successful than either Oblivion or Morrrowind because it was significantly easier than those games.

One of the more popular mods was also debuffs to players that made the game much harder.

In Skyrim one could choose difficulty, and mods also helped there with the popularity.

Thanks for unwittingly agreeing with us, since in Skyrim you could chose difficulty. Not to mention some mods could add more difficulty like hypothermia, hunger etc.

I didn't unwittingly agree with anything. My point was that debuffs were a popular solution to this issue in the mod scene the entire time. Because the game was literally easy. Players seeking challenge created their own difficulty.

Yet that solution seems to be considered a hard no here. It's overhaul the entire game or nothing

Franchise408

Hallothiel wrote: »

Comparing a single player rpg with an MMO rpg is no a valid comparison.

Also, didn’t Skyrim have a choice as to difficulty (as most SINGLE PLAYER games do)? And iirc, once you got to a certain level, the game was ‘easy’ as your gear & skills were op?

Because I refuse to play content that feels like active punishment to me, which is what the mind numbingly easy overland is. It is punishment for me to endure.

But for a lot of people it is not ‘mind numbingly easy’. And that is the crux - apparently that’s the majority (or so Rich has said).

K, how about MMO to MMO?

(Also, funny you mention Skyrim having a *choice* for difficulty - which is exactly what is being asked for, and being asked to be done in a way that already exists within the game as it currently stands, so it is clearly possible to pull off despite not being a single player title

Although to be perfectly honest, at this point I would far prefer to see a forced increase in difficulty than to see no change at all.)

EverQuest is still raking in millions of dollars a year, and was the king of MMO's for quite a long time, until WoW came and took the throne. EverQuest is also the epitome of a challenge in overland. Considering the fact that EverQuest has been running for over 20 years now, and even in declined #'s is still going strong, opening new servers, and making millions of dollars a year in profit (even with free emulator servers up and running - endorsed by Daybreak - poaching some of the playerbase from the official live servers), I'd say that challenging overland certainly isn't a detriment what-so-ever to online games.

How about other MMO's like SWG which literally died because of the streamlining and removal of challenge from the game?

I can't speak to WoW, as I've never really been much of a player there, but from my understanding, WoW has always been more challenging than ESO as well.

Honestly, ESO is probably the least difficult MMO I have ever played, but it is far from the most successful MMO ever or that I have ever played, so I don't think that difficulty is an accurate measurement to it's success.

The game isn't successful because of lack of difficulty. The difficulty in the game is largely the same as it was pre-One Tamriel. The overland of this game has never been challenging or difficult. There's a lot of misremembering and revisionist history about the difficulty of the game 7 years ago, when really what changed wasn't the difficulty, it was the ease of access to group with other players, the removal of the forced subscription, and the addition of TES-style gameplay mechanics. The game didn't struggle early because it was too hard, and the game isn't a success now because it's too easy. I honestly don't care what Rich says, because I don't hold it as a credible response. It's a cop-out response that devs give when they don't want to or haven't yet committed to making specific changes.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Thanks for unwittingly agreeing with us, since in Skyrim you could chose difficulty. Not to mention some mods could add more difficulty like hypothermia, hunger etc.

Skyrim is a single player game where anything you do doesn't affect anyone but you. That is not the case in a multiplayer game.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

The game isn't successful because of lack of difficulty. The difficulty in the game is largely the same as it was pre-One Tamriel. The overland of this game has never been challenging or difficult. There's a lot of misremembering and revisionist history about the difficulty of the game 7 years ago, when really what changed wasn't the difficulty, it was the ease of access to group with other players, the removal of the forced subscription, and the addition of TES-style gameplay mechanics. .

Untrue. The devs also nerfed the game and there were plenty of feedback posts thanking for them for doing it back when they did it. You may not have noticed the difficulty but others did and it was factually there.

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

We've already told you why we aren't playing overland content - because in it's current state, it is actively disengaging for us and actively pushing us away.

You aren't the only person who is subbed, and you aren't the only person seeing what's happening in overland.

SilverBride

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

You literally are failing to see the point @Araxyte is making here

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

We've already told you why we aren't playing overland content - because in it's current state, it is actively disengaging for us and actively pushing us away.

You aren't the only person who is subbed, and you aren't the only person seeing what's happening in overland.

A lot of players are subbed, which they wouldn't be if they were unhappy with the game, and certainly if they weren't even playing. A player who is actually engaging in overland on a daily basis has more insight into its current state than someone who isn't engaging in it at all.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

My comment is entirely related to your point here though.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

We've already told you why we aren't playing overland content - because in it's current state, it is actively disengaging for us and actively pushing us away.

You aren't the only person who is subbed, and you aren't the only person seeing what's happening in overland.

A lot of players are subbed, which they wouldn't be if they were unhappy with the game, and certainly if they weren't even playing. A player who is actually engaging in overland on a daily basis has more insight into its current state than someone who isn't engaging in it at all.

Ok.

So we have said the overland is disengaging and absolutely ridiculously boring. We have obviously done it to get that opinion. I've done overland content + cadwells gold on NUMEROUS characters and I still think to this day, especially with increasing power creep that overland is just downright boring and easy.


Also, a lot of players are subbed, yes. Just because they dislike one thing it does not mean they're not going to sub/be subbed. I have ESO+, I find overland boring etc. But the perks ESO+ give is more than worth it.


Putting ESO+ as an argument here, on any side, is frankly illogical. There's no reason to bring it up.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

You literally are failing to see the point @Araxyte is making here

I do see the point being made, and I agree that external factors have brought more players to online gaming and other in home activities. But these players will choose successful games to play, and games they find enjoyable. If ESO were doing poorly it would not attract many of these additional players. They would choose other games to play instead.

Kwoung

They could just put in a GCD slider and CP toggle. It defaults to 1 second, but you want more challenge, slide it over to 2, 3, 4 seconds, even more challenge, turn off your CP. I am pretty sure that would increase the challenge level quite a bit.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

You literally are failing to see the point @Araxyte is making here

I do see the point being made, and I agree that external factors have brought more players to online gaming and other in home activities. But these players will choose successful games to play, and games they find enjoyable. If ESO were doing poorly it would not attract many of these additional players. They would choose other games to play instead.

Why not add an option for a veteran overland toggle, completely optional of course, and try and attract some more gamers that like a challenge?

Iron_Warrior

I wish they delete this thread. It was supposed to be a "feedaback thread" but now it's just turned into childish back and fourth and repeating the same sentences over and over again. Just make a new thread and only allow feedbacks there, doesn't matter positive or negative, but just allow feedbacks. any kind of back and fourth should get deleted. Devs should be able to come to the thread and read the feedbacks and not going through 12 pages of childish debates. I'm sure they are smart enough to see the feedbacks of both sides and decide which feedback is better. I hope i haven't baited anyone this time

Maya_Nur

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

I can say it vice versa: I see many people who against vOL at all don't play it because mobs are just an annoying obstacle on their path to other activities. But me and other players who a for vOL care about them and suggest OPTIONAL.

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place?

If we'll get vOL, someday you'll join us once you have finished every other activitie.

Araxyte

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

You literally are failing to see the point @Araxyte is making here

I do see the point being made, and I agree that external factors have brought more players to online gaming and other in home activities. But these players will choose successful games to play, and games they find enjoyable. If ESO were doing poorly it would not attract many of these additional players. They would choose other games to play instead.

Why not add an option for a veteran overland toggle, completely optional of course, and try and attract some more gamers that like a challenge?

The more structured progression in an MMO the better imo, alot of players starting out like to have a challenge to look up to. They like the feeling of going in, failing, and then seeing what gear or levels they need to do better. Then the next time they attempt it they may succeed, which is a wonderful feeling. I know we have dungeons and trials for this, but as I said previously: overland and quests are the majority of the game. We need a veteran option as stated here.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Why not add an option for a veteran overland toggle, completely optional of course, and try and attract some more gamers that like a challenge?

I already addressed why I feel this would be bad for the game in post #33.

But I am completely on board with debuffs for general overland and optional veteran story bosses for those who would enjoy that. Because these have no negative effect on the general playerbase like a completely separate veteran overland would.

Hallothiel

Maya_Nur wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

I can say it vice versa: I see many people who against vOL at all don't play it because mobs are just an annoying obstacle on their path to other activities. But me and other players who a for vOL care about them and suggest OPTIONAL.

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place?

If we'll get vOL, someday you'll join us once you have finished every other activitie.

Play every day. Don’t care whether you play or not.

Ok with <insert whatever method of vet overland you actually want as no consensus on this> as long as is OPTIONAL & does not affect the main game.

But still not answered what you’ll do when even that gets ‘easy’…..

Ravensilver

Maya_Nur wrote: »

If we'll get vOL, someday you'll join us once you have finished every other activitie.

And that's the really strange thing... there is *so much* to do ingame that I won't have *time* to join you, because I will never finish 'every other activity'...
I still haven't gotten all the achievements. I'm still desperately looking for a whole bunch of furnishing recipes. I'm still leveling up alts. I'm digging up treasure chests. My antiquities list is full again. Let's not even talk about the new zone and all the quests there. *And* I haven't finished Shadowfen, because I detest mires and swamps.

So no, there is no end to activities that would get me to join you in vOL...

Kwoung

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

The entire video game industry isn't being debated here. ESO is, and it is doing very well.

You literally are failing to see the point @Araxyte is making here

I do see the point being made, and I agree that external factors have brought more players to online gaming and other in home activities. But these players will choose successful games to play, and games they find enjoyable. If ESO were doing poorly it would not attract many of these additional players. They would choose other games to play instead.

Why not add an option for a veteran overland toggle, completely optional of course, and try and attract some more gamers that like a challenge?

Well as has been quoted from Rich numerous times "It's not that easy". The dev effort to implement an optional hard mode for overland, would be a huge undertaking and most likely require a revamp of every overland zone in the game, also effectively doubling the effort on future content as well. Nevermind all the possible new causes of bugs and issues.

I am down with a potion someone can drink and gimp their character. Even make it stack, so the more you drink them the more gimped you are and the harder things become, which should cover just about everyone, because I seriously doubt even those in favor of a vet overland... all agree on exactly what that should look like and how hard "hard" should be.

Anyone that doesn't think that even if they implemented a hard mode for overland, that the very same day half the folks wouldn't be saying "We didn't mean this hard", while the other half says "This isn't hard enough", is dreaming.

Maya_Nur

Hallothiel wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

I can say it vice versa: I see many people who against vOL at all don't play it because mobs are just an annoying obstacle on their path to other activities. But me and other players who a for vOL care about them and suggest OPTIONAL.

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place?

If we'll get vOL, someday you'll join us once you have finished every other activitie.

Play every day. Don’t care whether you play or not.

Ok with <insert whatever method of vet overland you actually want as no consensus on this> as long as is OPTIONAL & does not affect the main game.

But still not answered what you’ll do when even that gets ‘easy’…..

We'll never know until we have vOL

Magdalina

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

To those wanting harder overland ask yourself this. Can you do overland even if it is to easy for you?

@Toxic_Hemlock

I've asked myself this many times and now the answer is no, I cannot. I mean, physically and technically, it's possible, but it simply isn't fun in any way, shape or form. I came from Skyrim, I used to love questing in ESO, I still remember many of the storylines touching me, but now? I just can't. Only quests I've done since Elsweyr/Greymoor (have done Elsweyr, haven't done Greymoor) were dungeon/arena ones because those actually feel engaging. I feel immersed, I feel I'm actually making a difference by saving the world from some evil there, not that I'm running around kindergarten one-shotting toddlers. I closed my eyes on this for a while but I simply can't do it anymore. All those thought-out storylines, touchy NPC stories, epic battle music...and the big enemy you just kill in 3 hits? I can't. Gaming should be fun, and this isn't.

I know many other people like me. Many people you could call 'hardcore' but if you look deeper, they also came from Skyrim/Oblivion and they used to enjoy questing here but just cannot do it anymore. Saying that we still have an option to do it is like saying that everyone has an option to do vet dlc dungeons or, say, vMA - which they do, there're builds out there that, when built right and knowing the mechanics, basically let you heavy attack your way to victory, no weaving or lightning-fast reactions required. If you have physical capabilities to play ESO at all or post on forums, you should be able to physically play those without much problems. But some people don't want to put that sort of effort and time into putting such build together and learning the mechanics, while possible, it isn't fun for them, and that opinion is respected - these people have normal dungeons, normal arenas and even normal trials. But for some reason, those of us for whom easy overland , while possible, isn't fun are told we're being selfish and wanting to take something from others. Don't you think it's a bit of double standards here?

Far as solutions...personally, I think it's high time we try another vet zone like original Craglorn - but without forced grouping and with better rewards. Which were 2 biggest reasons Craglorn failed. Make one single harder zone and see how it goes. We already have 30+ easy zones, surely having just one that's harder isn't asking too much. Then we can at least see how many people actually like and do it. Or we could even make 2 versions of that one zone, one normal and one vet, and see how that goes. Not as an overall solution yet, but as an experiment, something would be nice for starters, and we could see how well a properly-made hard zone can actually be recieved.

spartaxoxo

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

ESO has grown in size every year since One Tamriel. Their growth actually predates the pandemic. Probably won't happen this year since they no doubt lost pandemic surge players like every game, but their growth is definitely not just because of the pandemic. One Tamriel was a massive success for the game.

Faulgor

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

Because there is nothing for me to do lol.

For years now I've just been checking out new quests, play through them in a few days, am disappointed with the quality and stop playing again, just to repeat the cycle later that year. I enjoyed vet Vateshran last year, but that's about it. There's nothing else for solo players to do once they max out their characters, which seems absurd when you consider virtually all content up to that point is solo.
If questing content is the only thing that is supposed to draw me in, I don't even need to spend a single cent on this game, because I can play it all on the PTS for free! So even if ESO is raking in more money than ever, it's certainly not mine anymore.

And it seems perfectly appropriate that I tell ZOS why that is.