Overland Content Feedback Thread

Kwoung

Magdalina wrote: »

Far as solutions...personally, I think it's high time we try another vet zone like original Craglorn - but without forced grouping and with better rewards.

So I am a bit confused here, are you actually looking for a greater challenge, or just another zone to get better rewards from? Not to be judgmental here, but I "feel" like a good portion of the folks who support this, know they blow through vet content regardless of how hard ZOS makes it, and just want more places to do it and reap better rewards from it. Like purple jewelry from trash mobs in overland being the common drop and gold from all the bosses.

Feel free to correct me, but wanting a greater challenge traversing the world to make it more exciting, and having more places to farm better loot, aren't the same thing... at least I don't see it that way. Would you be satisfied with just the challenge?

SilverBride

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Kwoung

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Well actually, the game hasn't turned into anything different... you have. You played it, you enjoyed it, you have done everything you wanted that the game currently offers, and you just want more of it. Because the option is finding a new game... and at it's core you still like this one and want to continue enjoying it. Did I get that about right? Honestly, I feel the same way.

You do realize, that even if they do make a vet mode for overland, it will also stale on you in short order, then what? While ESO seems like a huge world, it really isn't, and it is fairly easy to blow through all the zones, doing everything they have to offer, that interests you, vet or normal, in fairly short order. How long do you feel a vet overland would hold your interest before you bore of it as well (honest question)?

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

The game has been this way since One Tamriel, and for good reason. It's what players wanted and it's been very successful.

No game is going to be everything for everyone. I wish everyone could enjoy this game as much as I do, but not at the expense of the many players who love it as is.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

Why are you so scared of veteran overland killing the game? It will be optional, as we keep saying. So it's not forced upon you, so you can carry on doing what you enjoy.



Here's the definition of optional:

Franchise408

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Well actually, the game hasn't turned into anything different... you have. You played it, you enjoyed it, you have done everything you wanted that the game currently offers, and you just want more of it. Because the option is finding a new game... and at it's core you still like this one and want to continue enjoying it. Did I get that about right? Honestly, I feel the same way.

You do realize, that even if they do make a vet mode for overland, it will also stale on you in short order, then what? While ESO seems like a huge world, it really isn't, and it is fairly easy to blow through all the zones, doing everything they have to offer, that interests you, vet or normal, in fairly short order. How long do you feel a vet overland would hold your interest before you bore of it as well (honest question)?

Well, a vet overland would actually open up about 90% of the game to me, because as it stands, I have been holding on with dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events. Give me some zones that have meaningful and engaging gameplay, and all of a sudden I have a whole new world of this game open to me. It can give me something other than just dungeons and other group content to do, and could very possibly allow me to fall in love with this game all over again.

Because as it stands, 90% of this game is actively pushing me away. The 10% of the game that appeals to me, appeals to me enough to have kept me invested for the last couple years straight, now imagine my investment if the other 90% of the game was opened up to me and I could actually treat this game like an Elder Scrolls game, and investing in the quests, the lore, and the stories

If the easy overland that poses 0 challenge over obstacle to overcome can be consistently engaging for those that don't want to face a challenge, why can't it have the same draw for those of us that want a challenge should it actually provide one?

Araxyte

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

This doesn't entirely speak volumes. The entire video game industry is doing better due to external factors.

ESO has grown in size every year since One Tamriel. Their growth actually predates the pandemic. Probably won't happen this year since they no doubt lost pandemic surge players like every game, but their growth is definitely not just because of the pandemic. One Tamriel was a massive success for the game.

I was tempted not to reply here as we need to limit the back and fourth posting, but I never said the growth was purely due to the pandemic. I said their post "didn't entirely speak volumes". Apologies for this off-topic post.

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

The game has been this way since One Tamriel, and for good reason. It's what players wanted and it's been very successful.

No game is going to be everything for everyone. I wish everyone could enjoy this game as much as I do, but not at the expense of the many players who love it as is.

You're just willing to expend those of us whom the game has already driven away.

Honesty, for the same reasons as you, I would take a mandatory increase of difficulty over nothing at all and just accept that no game can be for everyone, because I'm not willing to sacrifice what makes Elder Scrolls great in the first place, and this is not the direction I want to see the franchise take.

Maya_Nur

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

So you are appreciate an option not to join people if you don't want to, then the optional vOL won't be a problem for you as long as either you may join your friends who went to vet or they could help you with normal difficulty

Kwoung

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Well actually, the game hasn't turned into anything different... you have. You played it, you enjoyed it, you have done everything you wanted that the game currently offers, and you just want more of it. Because the option is finding a new game... and at it's core you still like this one and want to continue enjoying it. Did I get that about right? Honestly, I feel the same way.

You do realize, that even if they do make a vet mode for overland, it will also stale on you in short order, then what? While ESO seems like a huge world, it really isn't, and it is fairly easy to blow through all the zones, doing everything they have to offer, that interests you, vet or normal, in fairly short order. How long do you feel a vet overland would hold your interest before you bore of it as well (honest question)?

Well, a vet overland would actually open up about 90% of the game to me, because as it stands, I have been holding on with dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events. Give me some zones that have meaningful and engaging gameplay, and all of a sudden I have a whole new world of this game open to me. It can give me something other than just dungeons and other group content to do, and could very possibly allow me to fall in love with this game all over again.

Because as it stands, 90% of this game is actively pushing me away. The 10% of the game that appeals to me, appeals to me enough to have kept me invested for the last couple years straight, now imagine my investment if the other 90% of the game was opened up to me and I could actually treat this game like an Elder Scrolls game, and investing in the quests, the lore, and the stories

If the easy overland that poses 0 challenge over obstacle to overcome can be consistently engaging for those that don't want to face a challenge, why can't it have the same draw for those of us that want a challenge should it actually provide one?

So meaningful and engaging gameplay... what would need to happen in Overland to make it qualify? I ask, because currently, overland is not that meaningful or engaging, to me at least outside of the storyline, and simply making it harder would not change that in the slightest bit. What are you picturing it becoming that would make it meaningful and engage you more?

Sarousse42

Overland content is too easy, period.

I've stopped playing ESO for 2 reasons :

- PvP lag in Cyrodiil,
- no challenge at all in overland PvE.

[snip]

In current ESO overland content, I can't die. I just spam an AE skill and see a ton of mobs die. This is no fun.

ZoS, you need to fix that. Mobs needs to scale on our gear score. Or give us an overland vet toggle. But please find a solution.

[edited to remove comments not pertaining to ESO]

Franchise408

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Well actually, the game hasn't turned into anything different... you have. You played it, you enjoyed it, you have done everything you wanted that the game currently offers, and you just want more of it. Because the option is finding a new game... and at it's core you still like this one and want to continue enjoying it. Did I get that about right? Honestly, I feel the same way.

You do realize, that even if they do make a vet mode for overland, it will also stale on you in short order, then what? While ESO seems like a huge world, it really isn't, and it is fairly easy to blow through all the zones, doing everything they have to offer, that interests you, vet or normal, in fairly short order. How long do you feel a vet overland would hold your interest before you bore of it as well (honest question)?

Well, a vet overland would actually open up about 90% of the game to me, because as it stands, I have been holding on with dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events. Give me some zones that have meaningful and engaging gameplay, and all of a sudden I have a whole new world of this game open to me. It can give me something other than just dungeons and other group content to do, and could very possibly allow me to fall in love with this game all over again.

Because as it stands, 90% of this game is actively pushing me away. The 10% of the game that appeals to me, appeals to me enough to have kept me invested for the last couple years straight, now imagine my investment if the other 90% of the game was opened up to me and I could actually treat this game like an Elder Scrolls game, and investing in the quests, the lore, and the stories

If the easy overland that poses 0 challenge over obstacle to overcome can be consistently engaging for those that don't want to face a challenge, why can't it have the same draw for those of us that want a challenge should it actually provide one?

So meaningful and engaging gameplay... what would need to happen in Overland to make it qualify? I ask, because currently, overland is not that meaningful or engaging, to me at least outside of the storyline, and simply making it harder would not change that in the slightest bit. What are you picturing it becoming that would make it meaningful and engage you more?

I've already explained my proposals on multiple occasions in this thread. I'm not going to continue repeating the same thing over and over again. Feel free to look over my previous posts in this thread to find the answers to your questions.

Kwoung

I feel like this thread actually says a great deal about how awesome ESO is. In many games, people bore and move on, some complain, some fade away, some go out in a blaze... but they tend to just go find something else and repeat the process over and over. The fact that ESO has kept so many players engaged for so long, is actually pretty incredible. Also incredible, is folks desire to not move on and find another game. They apparently like it here so much, they want more things to keep them interested. While that is a common theme among most games, it just seems a bit deeper here, peoples desire to stay, if they can just have "one more thing to do".

Sadly, this is a downside of the entire industry, as no studio can ever push content faster than players will consume it, nor can they ever make their game everything to everyone, it just isn't possible. I wish it was, because I too have found Tamriel a great place to "live" in my off time for many years, and hope to do so for many into the future. But no matter what, there will be a day I lock the front door to my little home outside Marbuck, and walk down the path to go on adventures in worlds far away.

Franchise408

Kwoung wrote: »

I feel like this thread actually says a great deal about how awesome ESO is. In many games, people bore and move on, some complain, some fade away, some go out in a blaze... but they tend to just go find something else and repeat the process over and over. The fact that ESO has kept so many players engaged for so long, is actually pretty incredible. Also incredible, is folks desire to not move on and find another game. They apparently like it here so much, they want more things to keep them interested. While that is a common theme among most games, it just seems a bit deeper here, peoples desire to stay, if they can just have "one more thing to do".

Sadly, this is a downside of the entire industry, as no studio can ever push content faster than players will consume it, nor can they ever make their game everything to everyone, it just isn't possible. I wish it was, because I too have found Tamriel a great place to "live" in my off time for many years, and hope to do so for many into the future. But no matter what, there will be a day I lock the front door to my little home outside Marbuck, and walk down the path to go on adventures in worlds far away.

They can't make the game "everything for everyone", but there are very simple solutions - with the confines of the existing game - to make it something for even more people.

I don't buy what Rich is selling about "it's not that simple". It's a cop-out answer from a dev that doesn't want to show commitment to a change before they have decided upon it. So it's easy to say "it's not that simple"

As the developers, they can figure out the answers for it. Lots of suggestions have been made that could easily be made, and I have offered suggestions that greatly compromise what I'd even ideally want so that I can work within the confines of the game and at least get something.

This isn't an ask that is too much. In fact, what we are asking for is far less than the changes they already made when they released One Tamriel. If they were able to make those massive changes, then they can make these minor changes.

The solution to "we can't please everyone" is not "do nothing".

Kwoung

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Well actually, the game hasn't turned into anything different... you have. You played it, you enjoyed it, you have done everything you wanted that the game currently offers, and you just want more of it. Because the option is finding a new game... and at it's core you still like this one and want to continue enjoying it. Did I get that about right? Honestly, I feel the same way.

You do realize, that even if they do make a vet mode for overland, it will also stale on you in short order, then what? While ESO seems like a huge world, it really isn't, and it is fairly easy to blow through all the zones, doing everything they have to offer, that interests you, vet or normal, in fairly short order. How long do you feel a vet overland would hold your interest before you bore of it as well (honest question)?

Well, a vet overland would actually open up about 90% of the game to me, because as it stands, I have been holding on with dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events. Give me some zones that have meaningful and engaging gameplay, and all of a sudden I have a whole new world of this game open to me. It can give me something other than just dungeons and other group content to do, and could very possibly allow me to fall in love with this game all over again.

Because as it stands, 90% of this game is actively pushing me away. The 10% of the game that appeals to me, appeals to me enough to have kept me invested for the last couple years straight, now imagine my investment if the other 90% of the game was opened up to me and I could actually treat this game like an Elder Scrolls game, and investing in the quests, the lore, and the stories

If the easy overland that poses 0 challenge over obstacle to overcome can be consistently engaging for those that don't want to face a challenge, why can't it have the same draw for those of us that want a challenge should it actually provide one?

So meaningful and engaging gameplay... what would need to happen in Overland to make it qualify? I ask, because currently, overland is not that meaningful or engaging, to me at least outside of the storyline, and simply making it harder would not change that in the slightest bit. What are you picturing it becoming that would make it meaningful and engage you more?

I've already explained my proposals on multiple occasions in this thread. I'm not going to continue repeating the same thing over and over again. Feel free to look over my previous posts in this thread to find the answers to your questions.

I did, I didn't find it. I saw you said previous zone releases were unengaging, bad story, you don't like companions, to easy. I even read your suggestions, which seemed to boil down to add mechanics but I couldn't find where you said what exactly would have made it engaging for you outside of that. Or is that it, harder mobs with mechanics and vet level drops?

Personally, I do not find that engaging if that is the case. That is just longer TTK, not really any sort of meaningful engagement in the content. Really, I want to get on board with this whole idea, but more of the same boring stuff I can find on trials, dungeons, etc... that will quickly become boring as well. It is not an exciting proposition for me, nor do I see it adding any sort of lasting value to most who play this game.

Seriously, I think them un-scripting trials, dungeons, etc... and making them 100% dynamic, would be incredibly more engaging than just "Vetting up" the overland.

LashanW

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

Several of us have explained why an option is not a viable solution. Besides all the reasons we have given, Rich Lambert summed it up nicely here:
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it."

Regarding this statement from the creative director, when did he say this? And what time was he talking about when said 2/3rds of the game was never played?

Right now (2021) there are many new things added to the game that increase player "power"; better gear, gear being more accessible due to transmutation & reconstruction systems and also now curated drops, better CP, certain mythic items such as ring of the pale order which basically gives free healing while you do damage regardless of your class/build (leads for this don't require endgame activities or pvp). There's also companions. I don't use companions but I've seen a lot of people have them in overland zones. Wouldn't they make questing content even more trivial?

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I got into situations where I wanted mobs to kill me so I could return to the exist without paying gold for teleport, but they just couldn't overdamage my Iceheart shields and HP regeneration!

Wanting to save a few gold is not a valid reason for a major rework of the base game.

That's... not the point. Ok maybe it's better to ignore posts from you.

Ravensilver wrote: »

I am still missing the long-term sustainability of the idea here.

So we get the vet upgrade. You go do your quest, you bang on the quest endboss for half an hour, you die, you finally manage to kill him/her/it. You feel accomplished. The quest is finished.

Now what?

You can't do the quest again. You can't repeat the fight. Where is the sustainability here?

Two ways.
1. The optional vet version brings endgame players (who are currently not doing quests) back into questing aspect of the game. This means more players will be interested in questing. (questing is a major part of the game). On a side note perhaps questing with friends might be actually fun this way. (I used to do quests in Craglorn together with a RL friend of mine, that was a blast!)
2. ESO accounts have 18 character slots per server. You can do the quests again on other characters. (This is how some players spend over 1000 hrs in RPG games with content that can technically be completed in 50 hrs. High character customization + interesting gameplay = high replayability value)

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Here's the definition of optional:

I know what optional means, and I gave reasons this is not a good idea in post #33.

Franchise408 wrote: »

You're just willing to expend those of us whom the game has already driven away.

I am not asking that the game be changed in any manner, or expend anyone. I, and many others, are happy with overland just as it is.

Creating a veteran overland, optional or otherwise, would hurt the game for reasons I stated in post #33, and would drive away WAY more players than it would bring back.

Why would ZoS choose to put the time and manpower and effort into creating something that players didn't utilize at launch and had to be changed? They know what the majority of their playerbase wants. It would be bad business to put all that effort into something that would drive off many to satisfy a few.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

I think that overland and quests related to a particular zone need an upscale in damage.

Why? Because it's simply to easy as is and removes all enjoyment from that part of the game (sandbox/discovery/threat)

I know it will create a problem for players with less experience or a less hands on approach to the combat gameplay, but overall I think it would add a bit of depth to overland and possibly gently nudge players into the direction of 'Ok, maybe I should check what I'm wearing and using in terms of skills'.

I know ESO is trying to be a game for all, but the watered down version of overland can't last forever. We have the new player base now and it might be in all our best interests for them to follow a path.

A non-optional uptick of difficulty in overland would drive me and many others to quit. Combat is not what I want from any game, and the fact that I STILL die in overland to more than 2 or 3 mobs (with 600-700 cp on my PC NA accounts) means that I have to be careful already just trying to quest or do surveys. Part of that is high ping, part of it is my inability to bar swap and hit buttons properly in a rotation because I don't have young reflexes. And part of it is that i JUST HATE COMBAT. It's not fun. It's not how I want to gain XP. There is nothing "engaging" in the least about combat, but of course you can't find games without it!

Optional is fine as I've said fairly often. Overall non-optional increase of difficulty is not fine.

I know what you mean about varying playstyles and I mentioned that doubt too in my post.

But let's take a moment and look at it from the producers point of view with their additions:

- Mass marketing around Greymoor to introduce newer players (People they had missed)
- Casualizing certain aspects of the game (accessibility to skills, experience, easier gameplay, sets promotion etc)
- Companions to tank, heal or DPS and aid you in your adventures
- Multiple websites/streams with supported players (By ZOS) concerning guides/builds for you and your companion

So a setup has been done to accommodate the newer player base over this two year time span and like anything in life, it's a cycle; hence my conclusion that the watered down version of overland just can't stay as is.

In terms of difficulty:
I don't think anyone here wants something that can 'One shot' them whilst farming/questing/discovering/whatever, so let us all try and be realistic when we imagine what overland difficulty could be like. Even if it was ramped up just a little bit so that some players could do a two bar rotation or possibly 'kite' (move around whilst fighting), that could already be enough.

We don't want you to not enjoy the game, let's get that straight, but I personally believe we need something more true to nature in terms of 'threat' perception

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Here's the definition of optional:

I know what optional means, and I gave reasons this is not a good idea in post #33.

Franchise408 wrote: »

You're just willing to expend those of us whom the game has already driven away.

I am not asking that the game be changed in any manner, or expend anyone. I, and many others, are happy with overland just as it is.

Creating a veteran overland, optional or otherwise, would hurt the game for reasons I stated in post #33, and would drive away WAY more players than it would bring back.

Why would ZoS choose to put the time and manpower and effort into creating something that players didn't utilize at launch and had to be changed? They know what the majority of their playerbase wants. It would be bad business to put all that effort into something that would drive off many to satisfy a few.

And it's been explained to you countless times, by myself and others, why your concerns do not apply.

So with that, I think it's time to disengage from the discussion with you. It's becoming non-productive, [snip], and I don't want to derail this thread away from the feedback that could be used to continue improving the game.

[Edited to remove Baiting Comment]

LashanW

Kwoung wrote: »

I feel like this thread actually says a great deal about how awesome ESO is. In many games, people bore and move on, some complain, some fade away, some go out in a blaze... but they tend to just go find something else and repeat the process over and over. The fact that ESO has kept so many players engaged for so long, is actually pretty incredible. Also incredible, is folks desire to not move on and find another game. They apparently like it here so much, they want more things to keep them interested. While that is a common theme among most games, it just seems a bit deeper here, peoples desire to stay, if they can just have "one more thing to do".

Fully agreed. This is a great game. And the community I was involved with was awesome (my friends and guildies). I don't think I've ever spent so much time on any game as much as I have with ESO. I really do want to come back, but can't find any other activities to enjoy apart from endgame PvE (which I can't do 24/7 due to schedule problems with other people)

Until about half an year ago I had PvP to keep me occupied, but with the rapid decline of PvP in this game, it's not an option anymore


Yup, other games didn't even come close when it comes to playtime.

SilverBride

LashanW wrote: »

Regarding this statement from the creative director, when did he say this? And what time was he talking about when said 2/3rds of the game was never played?

This was from a Twitch stream about 2 months ago now. It doesn't matter if he was talking about at launch or 2 days ago, he found this relevant enough to the game today to cite this as a reason why optional overland is not as simple as some may think and why things were changed with One Tamriel.

Click SPOILER for a written transcript of the complete stream.

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests? Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.

I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things. And so that was why we did what we did and said story is soloable and quick path will always be soloable and if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you.

I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story.

And yes, go look at Craglorn. There’s not a lot of people in Craglorn and that’s not super difficult but it’s more hard than the regular overland.

Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it.

FeedbackOnly

More health isn't the answer.

It's not about making it harder, but more engaging

Kwoung

Why not just some content added to normal overland, like Daedric incursions of vet level mobs? Or elite teams of soldiers from other factions invading. What about dynamic content of any sort greater than those little mini-dolmen type Daedric spawns? What about those elite soldiers waging an attack at the gates or docks and needing to be driven back?

This would not only make overland more engaging, it would add a real level of fear into newbie. Don't make it so they get insta-killed at every turn, something avoidable they can run from, or even help with, but would mostly take vet players to bring it down. Not a static Harrowstorm rehash though, something new, different and exciting... But mostly dynamic and unpredictable to make it edgy and fun. The devs could create an entire pool of these types of encounters, which would not only be fun & engaging, but bring a ton of "life" to the existing zones.

And when one of these "events" popped, there could be a server wide announcement even, warning everyone and putting out a call to arms. There are near limitless possibilities, pirates, undead, daedric, factions, bandits even possessed wildlife or trees!

Anyhow, that's my idea of engaging, not just more of the same old stale mechanics or bullet(arrow?) sponge mobs.

Franchise408

Kwoung wrote: »

Why not just some content added to normal overland, like Daedric incursions of vet level mobs? Or elite teams of soldiers from other factions invading. What about dynamic content of any sort greater than those little mini-dolmen type Daedric spawns? What about those elite soldiers waging an attack at the gates or docks and needing to be driven back?

This would not only make overland more engaging, it would add a real level of fear into newbie. Don't make it so they get insta-killed at every turn, something avoidable they can run from, or even help with, but would mostly take vet players to bring it down. Not a static Harrowstorm rehash though, something new, different and exciting... But mostly dynamic and unpredictable to make it edgy and fun. The devs could create an entire pool of these types of encounters, which would not only be fun & engaging, but bring a ton of "life" to the existing zones.

And when one of these "events" popped, there could be a server wide announcement even, warning everyone and putting out a call to arms.

That's not a horrible idea, except it doesn't solve the problem, which is that vet level players are caged in their little corner of dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events, while they remain actively disengaged from 90% of the content.

Throughout this conversation, us vet level players are told to "do the hard content that already exists", and that we can't have vet overland because the newbies need us to group up with them on the occasion that they want to do harder content.

So basically, the message of that is that 90% of the game is for them, and we need to just stay in our cage of vet level group content, and also be on call for the newbies whenever they need help.

I don't think your idea is bad at all, but it falls under the same philosophy of "stay in your little corner, and when the message pops up, be ready to come and help the newbies. Then after it's over, get back to your corner, and the newbies will go back to their 90% of the game's content"

We want to be able to partake in the quests and storylines and lore as well. We like having lower paced downtime activities as well. We just want something that stimulates us a little bit more than the mind meltingly tedious overland that exists as is which offers us no form of engagement what so ever.

Kwoung

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Why not just some content added to normal overland, like Daedric incursions of vet level mobs? Or elite teams of soldiers from other factions invading. What about dynamic content of any sort greater than those little mini-dolmen type Daedric spawns? What about those elite soldiers waging an attack at the gates or docks and needing to be driven back?

This would not only make overland more engaging, it would add a real level of fear into newbie. Don't make it so they get insta-killed at every turn, something avoidable they can run from, or even help with, but would mostly take vet players to bring it down. Not a static Harrowstorm rehash though, something new, different and exciting... But mostly dynamic and unpredictable to make it edgy and fun. The devs could create an entire pool of these types of encounters, which would not only be fun & engaging, but bring a ton of "life" to the existing zones.

And when one of these "events" popped, there could be a server wide announcement even, warning everyone and putting out a call to arms.

That's not a horrible idea, except it doesn't solve the problem, which is that vet level players are caged in their little corner of dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events, while they remain actively disengaged from 90% of the content.

Throughout this conversation, us vet level players are told to "do the hard content that already exists", and that we can't have vet overland because the newbies need us to group up with them on the occasion that they want to do harder content.

So basically, the message of that is that 90% of the game is for them, and we need to just stay in our cage of vet level group content, and also be on call for the newbies whenever they need help.

I don't think your idea is bad at all, but it falls under the same philosophy of "stay in your little corner, and when the message pops up, be ready to come and help the newbies. Then after it's over, get back to your corner, and the newbies will go back to their 90% of the game's content"

We want to be able to partake in the quests and storylines and lore as well. We like having lower paced downtime activities as well. We just want something that stimulates us a little bit more than the mind meltingly tedious overland that exists as is which offers us no form of engagement what so ever.

I get that it isn't a 24/7 thing by any means. But I was taking a view from what would actually be fun fairly long term, build community (everyone helping) and the fact of the matter which to me is, you can't engage everyone all the time no matter what you do. Especially once they are fairly maxxed out characters. I am also of the belief that even if vet overland was done, players would bore quickly of it and be right back to square one. It is a great thought in theory, but in reality you do it, your done, now what?

As a high level player in pretty much every game I have played, this is a very common issue, you basically get to the point you are waiting around for Tuesday so you and your friends can go do that Trial, Raid or whatever, and that is pretty much all you have to do other than hanging out and socializing. Worst yet, you are waiting for the next DLC/Expansion, so you have a new trial, raid or whatever the current game calls it to do. So I am trying to get a bit creative in my thinking and come up with something that would actually be engaging long term and keep me wanting to play.

Also, consider the events I mentioned lasting an hour or more, and multiple times a day... not simply minutes and done.

Edit: Here is my take...
A large fleet Ships have been spotted heading towards the city docks!
Pirate hoards are invading, we have lost the docks, guard the gates!
They landed more ships south of the city, stop them before they group up here and overwhelm us!
OMG, bandits are forming an attack outside the front gates while we were occupied!
We have lost the southern quarter of the city, we need to retake it!
And so forth and so on... until the battle ends with all the players exhausted, the city safe and everyone talking about the huge blast they just had. .

Ravensilver

Faulgor wrote: »

Because there is nothing for me to do lol.

We have around 40 zones. Let's say each zone has on average 3 world bosses. That's at least 120 world bosses that you could do every day. Many of them come with a daily quest. (actually, by now we have probably around 150 of them).
We have 46 dungeons available, in normal and vet. You could do 92 dungeons every day.
There are 10 trials that you could do every day.
We have five dragons (that come complete with dailies) that you could kill daily.
There are 27 public dungeons that you could run daily, to farm recipes for gold, for example.
174 delves and group delves that you could be doing daily (many of them come with a daily quest).
You could do 10 Harrowstorms in two zones every day.
Let's not forget all the dolmens (and the dailies for them).
There are over 280 antiquities leads that you could farm and excavate.

Then, if you are so inclined, there are the pvp areas and the battlegrounds and the dailies that come with them.

And the crafter dailies.

And harvesting.

And housing and the furnishing and the farming for the recipes.

Then there are all the achievements that you could do (unless, of course, you've actually done *all* of them...).

I don't think there are enough hours in the day to get all of this (and more) done, even if you never went to sleep.

Franchise408

Kwoung wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Why not just some content added to normal overland, like Daedric incursions of vet level mobs? Or elite teams of soldiers from other factions invading. What about dynamic content of any sort greater than those little mini-dolmen type Daedric spawns? What about those elite soldiers waging an attack at the gates or docks and needing to be driven back?

This would not only make overland more engaging, it would add a real level of fear into newbie. Don't make it so they get insta-killed at every turn, something avoidable they can run from, or even help with, but would mostly take vet players to bring it down. Not a static Harrowstorm rehash though, something new, different and exciting... But mostly dynamic and unpredictable to make it edgy and fun. The devs could create an entire pool of these types of encounters, which would not only be fun & engaging, but bring a ton of "life" to the existing zones.

And when one of these "events" popped, there could be a server wide announcement even, warning everyone and putting out a call to arms.

That's not a horrible idea, except it doesn't solve the problem, which is that vet level players are caged in their little corner of dungeons, trials, world bosses, and world events, while they remain actively disengaged from 90% of the content.

Throughout this conversation, us vet level players are told to "do the hard content that already exists", and that we can't have vet overland because the newbies need us to group up with them on the occasion that they want to do harder content.

So basically, the message of that is that 90% of the game is for them, and we need to just stay in our cage of vet level group content, and also be on call for the newbies whenever they need help.

I don't think your idea is bad at all, but it falls under the same philosophy of "stay in your little corner, and when the message pops up, be ready to come and help the newbies. Then after it's over, get back to your corner, and the newbies will go back to their 90% of the game's content"

We want to be able to partake in the quests and storylines and lore as well. We like having lower paced downtime activities as well. We just want something that stimulates us a little bit more than the mind meltingly tedious overland that exists as is which offers us no form of engagement what so ever.

I get that it isn't a 24/7 thing by any means. But I was taking a view from what would actually be fun fairly long term, build community (everyone helping) and the fact of the matter which to me is, you can't engage everyone all the time no matter what you do. Especially once they are fairly maxxed out characters. I am also of the belief that even if vet overland was done, players would bore quickly of it and be right back to square one. It is a great thought in theory, but in reality you do it, your done, now what?

As a high level player in pretty much every game I have played, this is a very common issue, you basically get to the point you are waiting around for Tuesday so you and your friends can go do that Trial, Raid or whatever, and that is pretty much all you have to do other than hanging out and socializing. Worst yet, you are waiting for the next DLC/Expansion, so you have a new trial, raid or whatever the current game calls it to do. So I am trying to get a bit creative in my thinking and come up with something that would actually be engaging long term and keep me wanting to play.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, story quests with Craglorn level difficulty would do a lot to keep me engaged for even longer than I already have been.

I would love to experience the stories and lore of this game. I am a huge TES fan. That's why I'm here. But the solo gameplay is so atrocious and actively disengaging, and so unrecognizable to anything resembling an Elder Scrolls game, that I cannot continue to punish myself by enduring it.

I am telling you right here and now - and I can only speak for myself - that more engaging solo questing gameplay would work wonders towards rekindling my interest and keeping me engaged with the game.

FlopsyPrince

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I think those who against vOL in any form have to answer this question: "Do you want us to stay in game with you?" If the answer is yes, let us enjoy it. If no, then why do you do you play MMO at the first place.

I play MMO's because I enjoy being able to connect with other players, as much or as little as I choose.

Of course I want others to stay in ESO, but not if it means the game I enjoy will be changed into something I no longer enjoy.

And the game is turning into something that many of us no longer enjoy...

Then don't play it. The game is certainly not something to be in if you do not enjoy it at all.

I would not say that if you were asking for specific Quality of Life changes, as I have many times, but just not enjoying it shouldn't be solved by making it bad for most other players.

Franchise408

Ravensilver wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Because there is nothing for me to do lol.

We have around 40 zones. Let's say each zone has on average 3 world bosses. That's at least 120 world bosses that you could do every day. Many of them come with a daily quest. (actually, by now we have probably around 150 of them).
We have 46 dungeons available, in normal and vet. You could do 92 dungeons every day.
There are 10 trials that you could do every day.
We have five dragons (that come complete with dailies) that you could kill daily.
There are 27 public dungeons that you could run daily, to farm recipes for gold, for example.
174 delves and group delves that you could be doing daily (many of them come with a daily quest).
You could do 10 Harrowstorms in two zones every day.
Let's not forget all the dolmens (and the dailies for them).
There are over 280 antiquities leads that you could farm and excavate.

Then, if you are so inclined, there are the pvp areas and the battlegrounds and the dailies that come with them.

And the crafter dailies.

And harvesting.

And housing and the furnishing and the farming for the recipes.

Then there are all the achievements that you could do (unless, of course, you've actually done *all* of them...).

I don't think there are enough hours in the day to get all of this (and more) done, even if you never went to sleep.

Just about every single one of those things requires a group to complete, the only exceptions being public dungeons, dolmens, antiquities (which is 0 combat engagement, and a mind numbingly tedious skill in it's own right) and delves (which are part of the way-too-easy-overland issue), on top of being wholly repetitive when that's the only content available to you. This whole comment is more "90% of the game belongs to us, you just go back to your corner and stay there".

Why don't we deserve to have engaging story content as well?