Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.

I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.

SimonThesis

We're not asking for vet level mechanics but something other than just sitting there and dieing. Since one tamriel the mobs already scale to your level. It would be no different than a Cp2500 running around tagging mobs and running into a lvl 10.

AzuraFan

SimonThesis wrote: »

Smarter scaling would make sense, maybe to the difficulty of your gear/pve achievements. Does that toon have perfected arena weapons on, vet trial trifectas and vMA achievements maybe the mobs will have more health and abilities for that toon. On the flip side if that toons never completed a single vet dungeon or even done nMA maybe the mobs will have less health.

Scaling in that way wouldn't be optional. There will be players who have the veteran achievements and don't want more difficult opponents when in overland because that's when they want to relax, or they want to harvest resources without having to fight tough mobs, etc. If there's one message that's coming through loud and clear on the thread, it's that if ZOS does anything at all, it must be optional.

alberichtano

Kwoung wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I also believe be that the better content you do the better gear you acquire and as a result the easier overland becomes to you. This could have merit IMO as I keep hearing the phase to "one shot" the mobs, but honestly even my best built characters still take at least a couple shots to kill most things overland.

I, for example, only have a few monster sets as I go into the PvP zone use the golden vender there, now that I know he is there, when I see a good set I want. As of right now I only have maybe 5 helm types as I avoid most of the dungeons. Other than that I only use overland and crafted sets. Many sets such as those available only from trails and arenas I will never own, thus I am less prepared.

Seems to me to be I am caught in a loop, but I am fine with it. If I didn't do, or wasn't able to do, some content then I don't deserve the shiny new gear. The only problem I can see is that those that have this gear want there to be as much a challenge everywhere as there is in that content, and that is brutally unfair to those that just want to quests peacefully without the challenge.

I know this argument will not sway most wanting vet content world wide (non-optional), but I only hope that it may reach a few that are willing to see the other side of the story.

Off topic, but hit me up in game if you want to give the harder content a try with no pressure and I will add you to our guild. We do training trials, vet training trials, monster helm hunts, some PVP to get folks their 50 transmutes and a lot of different stuff to help ease the transition to the harder content. I know I can be annoying here, but my officers and members are freaking amazing, a really nice group of folks, super patient and everyone helps each other... or we try to best we can! We also keep a little trader in the Vivec refuge to help with selling any stuff you want to as well.

Ok, back to our normal conversation....

SimonThesis wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

The only problem I can see is that those that have this gear want there to be as much a challenge everywhere as there is in that content, and that is brutally unfair to those that just want to quests peacefully without the challenge.

We're not asking for overland to be as challenging as vet dungeons far from it. We just want to stop one-shotting everything we come across without having to take everything off and undo all of our CP.

Smarter scaling would make sense, maybe to the difficulty of your gear/pve achievements. Does that toon have perfected arena weapons on, vet trial trifectas and vMA achievements maybe the mobs will have more health and abilities for that toon. On the flip side if that toons never completed a single vet dungeon or even done nMA maybe the mobs will have less health.

A couple points, first being that is your take on the difficulty. Many posts here ask for mechanics and such other things, which does actually mean vet dungeon level mobs or close to it. As for dynamic scaling, kind of impossible to do, how can that be done, mob scales to the first person who hits it? I can see a whole lot of griefing coming from that in both directions. Run by a mob, tag it and watch it lay waste to all the newbies around.

I was thinking along the same lines... if a mob has its difficulty set by who meets it "first", then vet griefers can, as you say run around and make life REAL hard for new players or other non-leet gamers. And if they can, they will, sadly.

tonyblack

SilverBride wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.

I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.

Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?

SilverBride

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.

I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.

Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?

I was responding to posts saying they hear players complaining about it in game all the time.

Kwoung

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.

I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.

Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?

I was responding to posts saying they hear players complaining about it in game all the time.

I have never heard it discussed outside of these forums either, on Discord, guild chat, zone chat or anywhere. Not saying it isn't a valid request, just that I as well have only ever seen it right here... and I have belonged to numerous very active 500 player guilds that are entirely PVE.

tonyblack

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.

I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.

Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?

I was responding to posts saying they hear players complaining about it in game all the time.

I have never heard it discussed outside of these forums either, on Discord, guild chat, zone chat or anywhere. Not saying it isn't a valid request, just that I as well have only ever seen it right here... and I have belonged to numerous very active 500 player guilds that are entirely PVE.

Why would it be discussed in those places at all?
Honestly, some subset of players prefer to pretend this request is local forum thing but it's not the case. Here is examples of such threads on steam and reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/px39sy/questing_should_have_a_hard_mode/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/306130/discussions/0/3110278728382364467/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/306130/discussions/0/2262439317608891961/
and there is tones more which appear constantly.

The fact that some players prefer it would never be added to the game by diminishing amount of players who wants it doesn't make their POV any more legit.

SilverBride

tonyblack wrote: »

Why would it be discussed in those places at all?

I was responding to this post:

SimonThesis wrote: »

People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly.

I don't doubt that some players who post here also post on reddit or steam. I am just saying that from my experience this is not something that is being discussed in game.

StevieKingslayer

Okay to go along with the "asking for stuff thats too vague", I will elaborate on my personal opinion.

Leave Alone: Mudcrabs/bandits/skeevers anything small critter like/lions etc and "human" ie: dude that just wields a knife, meh whatever.
Very minor buff: Spellcasters/Goblins/Ogres/Giants etc
Larger buff: Dremora/Guardians of the big "bads"
The biggest buff: The big bads.

lmfao thats prolly still too vague for some people. Like, I dont wanna mess with your skeevers and stuff I ignore those myself, Anything I actually fight tho, or have to fight for a big end of the world story, shouldn't fall over if my character accidently sneezes north of it.

spartaxoxo

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

From a totally personal POV as I never plan on doing any of that content then it won't matter to me if those that have those achievements are having a harder time. They did after all want the challenge. I still think it should be optional as we all get older eventually and constant challenges are fun once, but grow weary sooner than you would think. Thanks for looking at it this way.

I would definitely get pushed out by that. My hands aren't what they used to be. Sometimes when I want a low challenge it's to relax, but sometimes it's because my hands just can't take the harder stuff. I can't even do the hardest trial achievements because I can't do the hardest rotations because it's too rough on my hands. Although I could probably do a full vet dlc trial without the achievements if I had a schedule for it.

But also sometimes I'm feeling fine and feeling myself and am like let me do some VMA. Get some!

So just because I have wanted the challenge before doesn't mean I want it all the time.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't doubt that some players who post here also post on reddit or steam. I am just saying that from my experience this is not something that is being discussed in game.

I've seen it in game and on discord, though nowhere close to the volume as here.

Lord_Hev

I fail to see what could be wrong with the most simplest of compromises. So we have the default and base-way the game works now for zoning and instancing, do not change that at all. Everyone is happy.

Then we have the option to go into our group finder and physically -opt-in- for seperate Veteran instance zone. Can even put in some cheeky RP message about what it entails. "In veteran overland it is likely that friendly faces will be scarce and it is encouraged to group up with fellow companions in this harsher climate, blah blah you get the point. "

The message basically explains that vet instance will have a notable population drop. That in itself will be intimidating. And really, this is the climate that Elder Scrolls singleplayer game fans might find also enticing, not just "veteran endgamers." In this seperate instancing, it will feel more like a solo experience, or a small group experience. And ofc there is always the option to still run full group limit 12 person raids, etc. I feel like this climate will be a boon not only for the people asking for more difficult overland content, but particularly for those of us that enjoy questing. The only difference is this is "the next level" of the questing experience. It will be important to actually theory-craft and get comfortable with core mechanics, rotations, what your class and weapon skills do, what your sets do, and if you are grouping with other questers, how can your role prove advantegous. Basically being able to actually use the group dungeon premise for group questing. This is not how Craglorn was launched. This is not about group-gating mechanisms, like the Craglorn that we had at launch and received criticism of. Vet overland content should be soloble, but will require the player to put in the same work they would for a solo arena to solo which is a very fair and realistic baseline to work with. Any build that can do Vateshran Hollows on normal difficulty, can solo most veteran base group dungeon trash mob pulls. This is the important distinguishing factor between veteran overland content desire, and what the bulk of criticism and dislike Craglorn had. No group-gating mechanisms at all. Just taking the overland content, and stat buffing them the same way normal and veteran group dungeons are seperate.


What does this actually mean? It's super simple and straight-forward, and doesn't require anything strenuous like new mechanics or anything. It's literally the -exact- mechanism they use, that buffs Banished Cells I to Veteran Banished Cells I. That is literally it. What is the difference between the two? Go into BC1 on normal, then on vet; both solo. And fight the first trash pull. Best way to understand the baseline difference between the two. I think most of us that want a more difficult Overland can get behind this. If you don't quite see it, then give the first trash pull of a vet base dungeon a shot while solo and get a feel of it.




TL;DR: Veteran Overland instance that anyone at lvl 50 can opt-into via group finder or wherever Zenimax wants to implement access to this. The difficulty of Veteran Overland is comparable to Veteran base-game dungeons. Just as Overland as-it-is right now shares a baseline stat coefficient with normal group dungeons.

Faulgor

Some people mentioned that overland content has always been easy. Others say it has only become easy due to One Tamriel. Neither is really correct in my recollection.

Firstly, at launch and quite some time afterwards, overland content wasn't as easy. That's why Doshia is still often remembered, because it was an interesting and challenging fight at the time.
However, this was not just because of some scaling issue, but to a large extend because the game played quite differently back then. The devs hadn't accepted weaving and animation canceling as a part of the game yet, many abilities were too weak or too costly to use, and soft caps made focusing on one particular attribute unappealing.
In that environment, Silver and Gold zones as well as Craglorn were a rather unnecessary difficulty spike, especially because there was little you could do to increase your capabilities once you hit soft caps, and there was not really any reward in it besides having a higher VR rank.

When One Tamriel came, the game had already changed quite a bit. Veteran ranks were gone in favor of champion points, soft caps were gone, etc. Therefore overland content had already become much more accessible before this update. Especially with a maxed out character, One Tamriel changed nothing, as the scaling only applied before level 50.

Over the next years, overland content remained mostly untouched (world bosses were beefed up at least once), but our characters became more and more powerful - either through general power creep, or because weak and unusable skills were getting buffed (thank the DEVines). This could of course be seen in other types of content as well, e.g. beating vMA was a lot harder at its release than it is today.
New endgame content was developed around this new power level of the players, but the majority of the game's content, overland, was not adjusted. It couldn't be, because it also had to service new players. This let people blame One Tamriel in hindsight for the drop in difficulty, when it wasn't an issue at the time.

So, I guess what I want to say is: Asking for optional difficulty settings for overland content is more like a correction rather than an addition, or even a complete change of the game.

I remember soloing being much harder than it is today, because I couldn't just point jabs into the general direction of a problem and make it vanish - jabs sucked. I couldn't really spam anything much, because sustain sucked. The skills I could use were weaker, because our stats were much lower. And healing while dealing damage was only really an option for Sorcerers - thanks, Pale Order.
I love that more and more classes, skills, sets, and builds became viable over the years. But it also made the majority of the content easier and easier to the point of triviality.

We did have harder overland, but it wasn't the Cadwell zones Rich mentioned, or even Craglorn.
It was everywhere.
And we just beat it to death.

Hallothiel

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.

The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.

Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.

Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.

That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.

And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.

Hallothiel

Still no consensus on *exactly* what is wanted.

Seems some want a personal toggle to increase difficulty - how would this work? How would this affect playing with who do not use the toggle?

Some have suggested a personal debuff, but whilst this would be the easiest to implement, it does not appear popular.

Some want a vet instance of quest end bosses - again this would be relatively simple to implement. Most support this as a good thing.

Some have suggested a separate vet zone, although this in no way would be Craglorn.2.

Some want a vet version of absolutely everything, whether it be instanced, or a separate server (lol dream on).
This would therefore be optional and mean those that wanted could have that epic & meaningful combat with whatever they want, from delves to quests to just trying to harvest mats.

But my previous comments about this still stand:

If it was so easy to implement, and the data showed it would be profitable, Zos would have done it by now. That’s the bottom line.

As has been stated by Rich, it’s apparently not so easy to do (despite what some armchair game devs here seem to think). To make a vet version of the whole overland game would take immense time & resources, and to think otherwise would be foolish. And not just a harder version (ie more health/hits harder) it would need different enemy mechs etc to ensure that content was ‘meaningfull’ & ‘engaging’ otherwise there would still be complaints.

Finally, 2 questions.

Would you be willing to pay for this?

What happens when this also gets too easy?

Maya_Nur

Hallothiel wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.

The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.

Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.

Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.

That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.

And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.

They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.

karthrag_inak

khajiit would enjoy if perhaps there were small regions in every zone that were populated with tougher mobs, with the benefit that perhaps they would drop better overland gear (higher chance of purple maybe) and the crafting nodes in the area would give higher chance of slightly more resources. Would add a bit of character to the zones.

Rex-Umbra

Game wouldn't have such a bot problem if brand new accounts couldn't 1 button/1 shot kill npcs that respawn every 10 seconds

Hallothiel

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Game wouldn't have such a bot problem if brand new accounts couldn't 1 button/1 shot kill npcs that respawn every 10 seconds

All the bots I see avoid combat in their routes. I have tried to drag things into their path but to no avail. So not really relevant.

Hallothiel

Maya_Nur wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.

The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.

Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.

Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.

That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.

And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.

They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.

Nah, the majority of them consider the forums to be the online equivalent of Mos Eisley and refuse to have anything to do with it. 🤣

Maya_Nur

Hallothiel wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.

The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.

Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.

Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.

That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.

And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.

They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.

Nah, the majority of them consider the forums to be the online equivalent of Mos Eisley and refuse to have anything to do with it. 🤣

And by this, they're just excluding themselves from the dialogue *shrug*

Parasaurolophus

Hallothiel wrote: »

Still no consensus on *exactly* what is wanted.

Seems some want a personal toggle to increase difficulty - how would this work? How would this affect playing with who do not use the toggle?

Some have suggested a personal debuff, but whilst this would be the easiest to implement, it does not appear popular.

Some want a vet instance of quest end bosses - again this would be relatively simple to implement. Most support this as a good thing.

Some have suggested a separate vet zone, although this in no way would be Craglorn.2.

Some want a vet version of absolutely everything, whether it be instanced, or a separate server (lol dream on).
This would therefore be optional and mean those that wanted could have that epic & meaningful combat with whatever they want, from delves to quests to just trying to harvest mats.

But my previous comments about this still stand:

If it was so easy to implement, and the data showed it would be profitable, Zos would have done it by now. That’s the bottom line.

As has been stated by Rich, it’s apparently not so easy to do (despite what some armchair game devs here seem to think). To make a vet version of the whole overland game would take immense time & resources, and to think otherwise would be foolish. And not just a harder version (ie more health/hits harder) it would need different enemy mechs etc to ensure that content was ‘meaningfull’ & ‘engaging’ otherwise there would still be complaints.

Finally, 2 questions.

Would you be willing to pay for this?

What happens when this also gets too easy?

It doesn't matter. Seriously. The main thing we want to show is how trivial and boring overland is, and questing is more like reading comics.
We are not developers to think over how and what should work better. We, as consumers, leave feedback.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.

I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.

According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.

So, I mulled over responding to this comment, and this is the response I think works here. You left ESO prior to one tamriel because you were not satisfied with your experience with the gold and silver zones. You returned after they made these changes, as did many others, because ZOS saw that, among many things, the experience you and players like you were having was leading them to leave. They didn't ignore the issue that drove you away when you quit, they fixed it. We, people who've put thousands of hours into this game, are in exactly the same boat as you, voicing our concerns for a game we love as we feel less and less motivated to play it.

Using "you play less as me" as a sort of 'gotcha' card, acting like just because we play less if not at all invalidates our reason to speak, it is foolish. If you love the game you take the concerns of all players seriously, since if you just tell them to deal with it, or encourage them to leave as FlopsyPrince's comment suggest, eventually that'll lead to the game shutting down sooner than it otherwise could. Fixing issues, preserving a motivated player base, that's good for the long-term health of the game, both for us the players and for ZOS by having more people to buy into it.

So for all that, is it worth constantly shooting down other people's comments when they're trying to point out flaws in a thing they otherwise love, hoping to see it improved, or will you at least try to understand that, like every other piece of pve content in the game, having an option in overland would open it up to more players. And if not, imagine if ZOS were to close down all normal dungeons, 'the experience shall be enjoyed one way or not at all' kind of deal?

StevieKingslayer

^^^^

I mean to be fair, I am out of proper work atm so for the last 6+months I have been playing 12hrs a day most days.
When I was working, It was 4-5hrs. I still think im as valuable as a person that only plays 2hrs, or 1hr. We're all important.

So we need something that caters to all of us, as much as possible. Need to find that middle ground. The argument that just because we don't like it we dont play it, is simply not true. We do, we just dont enjoy it or like it, and telling us to go to another game is just nasty. Im not gonna tell any of you to go elsewhere just because you like overland a bit easier. *shrug*

You don't leave a game because they make changes, if they did no one would play monopoly even. If you truly love and are passionate about a game, then you stick around regardless of if you don't like a change - and you speak out on what you do and do not like. If you just drop it entirely, well...I don't think you were in it for the game in the first place really. Just "a" game.

SteamKitten01

I've never spoken up about my feelings about overland before but feel I should as I've seen too many people in this thread talking about a "silent majority" that they assume is ok with trivial difficulty overland just because they haven't said anything. Yes I do complete all available quests on my main toon but I certainly don't bother with them on any of my alts. Nor do I feel engaged when everything dies in one hit with me not even bothering with food and not even having 2 full 5-piece bonuses since I don't need to take off my wild hunt ring.

It doesn't have to be vet DLC hard but at least make it so there's encounters where things don't die in one hit, you have to do a bit of a rotation, and you actually have to move out of the red.

As far as how many people would actually do the harder content, I know a lot that would jump at the chance. When I have the time on weekends, I run random vets and through these dungeons have met many other people that enjoy the challenge of difficult content. Yes it takes longer and no there isn't any difference in rewards but in my eyes and the eyes of others that run random vets, it is far more fun and engaging than normal dungeons.

I don't think everyone should be forced to do more difficult content but we should 100% have the option should we feel like it.

Ravensilver

Why is everyone focused on just the fights?

Is that all that engages you in the game?

I've seen mention of invasions. Longer questlines. More exploration. More secret locations and bosses.
I offered stuff like the entire server working together to achieve a goal - like building a city or defending one from invasion.
I'd like to see a great deal more variety (and I wouldn't even mind if the difficulty was also varied) in the overland activities.

Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?

LashanW

Ravensilver wrote: »

Why is everyone focused on just the fights?

Is that all that engages you in the game?

No. But combat gameply is a major component to experience the story properly for some people, considering that this is a game. Not a book or a movie.

Ravensilver wrote: »

Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?

This was asked several times in other threads (not sure about this one) and several people answered.

This was my answer,
When I'm in overland I don't generally care about world bosses or events like harrowstorms, because they offer little to the story (not talking about daily repeatable quests). If zone story quests involved fighting world bosses at some point, then I'd fight them. Otherwise I don't see the point. They don't even drop good stuff most of the time.

Franchise408

Ravensilver wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Why don't we deserve to have engaging story content as well?

I still don't understand what you mean when you say "engaging story content".

Please describe to me what this would look like.

So there you are, arriving at a new wayshrine... a quest waits for you...

... how does the story continue for you?

I'm not going to go through and list out every single mechanic that I want every single quest boss and mob to have. That's not my job to figure out. The dev team is plenty good enough at developing mechanics, as they have shown through the large number of world bosses, world events, dungeons, trials, and arenas.

The "engaging" portion has been described ad nauseum with people - myself included - outlining what they would like from veteran overland. In fact, speaking for myself personally, I have laid out a very clear outline of a direction I would take for veteran overland which should satisfy everyone involved by giving vet players quest content to play in, while not taking anything away from those not wanting challenge in their game.

I'm willing to work on compromises, but honestly I am to a point that if a compromise is too hard for ZOS to implement, then I would much prefer to see a forced increase in difficulty rather than see nothing done at all.

Maya_Nur

Ravensilver wrote: »

Why is everyone focused on just the fights?

Is that all that engages you in the game?

I've seen mention of invasions. Longer questlines. More exploration. More secret locations and bosses.
I offered stuff like the entire server working together to achieve a goal - like building a city or defending one from invasion.
I'd like to see a great deal more variety (and I wouldn't even mind if the difficulty was also varied) in the overland activities.

Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?

What makes you think so? It is not about "Give us strong enemies!", it's about setups to threats in stories. Why should I bother about any WB while it is just a strong and agressive being? I want to hear from natives, how they suffer because of it, in other case it is just random creature I'm killing because I can. Right now, there are many well-written quests, especially the old ones, if we would able to feel those threats with our skin, it would increase an immersion significantly!

DEL.
EDIT. Stories give us motivation to accept challenges and in questing we have motivation, but lack of challenge. But it is an opposite situation for worldbosses – we have challenge, but have no motivation to deal with it, but it is isn't a problem for me personally, because it's just a different type of content – something closer to hunting.