Overland Content Feedback Thread

Frooke

The game at launch had a very good level of difficulty, which made me fall in love with it. However, I recognize that it was truly challenging. Despite that, the difficulty motivated me to craft equipment, level up professions, and try different combinations of weapons and abilities.

For those who don’t know or don’t remember, fighting against three or more opponents was certain death. To defeat some delve bosses, it was necessary to wait for another player to show up and help with the fight. This was because the game didn’t grant access to healing abilities right from the start—only Templars had that advantage. There was no Battle Leveling, so venturing into higher-level areas wasn’t an option.

Nowadays, the game is EXTREMELY easier. We have the Battle Leveling System, healing and defensive buffs available early on, CPs for veterans, and easy access to Mundus Stones thanks to Housing. Let’s not forget, we also have COMPANIONS. So, thinking that the game will somehow become difficult with all these conveniences doesn’t make sense. And for those struggling with the game, you can just craft gear with high resistance and Health Recovery, and the game will remain easy—or you can also use a Heavy Attack build (Oakensoul).

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.” Well, I don’t want to quest the way it currently is either. I prefer to read the lore on UESP because, without a bit of challenge, the game is basically just walking and clicking—boring

SilverBride

I don't use my Companions for questing. I only use them if I am soloing Dungeons or World Bosses or other more challenging content. Using Companions to quest in Overland just makes it that much easier, which isn't a problem for me. I just prefer to quest solo.

Some players don't use Companions at all and they should not forced into a playstyle they don't want to be able to handle a more difficult overland they also don't want.

spartaxoxo

I use companions for questing because it's good exp for them to kill whatever adds I come across. In addition, sometimes I just let them handle things for me because that's how easy overland is

ESO_player123

disky wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So in conclusion, a little bit of a mix of Scaling so we can go anywhere, with some regular npc Mobs scattered in that make us a little cautious. Updating the HP & Damage of all the overland npc's in the game times 10 might make overland a bit more interesting.

I feel like you can scale everything as long as there is a reasonable level of difficulty within the scale, and that things make an amount of sense. Seekers are tough, they have some challenging abilities and that's good, they should be. They're not quite at the level of a DLC world boss, but a little under that. I think that's a good level for a challenging roamer and there should be more like them, but it can still exist within the level scaling system.

I think Seekers are a good example of harder content that no one bother with because they drop nothing useful but the Ichor (and people do not flock to Bastion Nymic anymore because, well, no useful rewards there either) . You won't see anyone killing Seekers for the fun of it. So, if something like this were to be introduced all over the place without appropriate rewords it will be dead very soon after the novelty of the change disappears.

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

SilverBride

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

I agree and that is what bothers me. The increased difficulty just for the enjoyment of it should be enough reward.

vsrs_au

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

Yes. A lot of games work this way: the reward is commensurate with the difficulty, so ESO shouldn't be any different. That's why ZOS decisions such as offering low-level rewards for defeating seekers are unpopular decisions.

blktauna

vsrs_au wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

Yes. A lot of games work this way: the reward is commensurate with the difficulty, so ESO shouldn't be any different. That's why ZOS decisions such as offering low-level rewards for defeating seekers are unpopular decisions.

^^^^ This right here.

TaSheen

I feel that the reward structure should expand with more difficult (hopefully optional.... *sigh*) overland. I'm not reward-driven; it would never occur to me to mess with more difficult overland just for rewards I don't care about anyway....

Ugrak

Don't necessarily need more than we have, but any potential reward structure for hard content should just be tied into the Undaunted somehow. They always seemed like such an underutilized faction in the game.

spartaxoxo

At the very least, I hope that whatever decision is made allows questing to still fulfill its purpose of leveling your characters by upping the exp a bit. I don't care about other rewards. I'm not opposed but I don't care either way. My main concern is the immersion.

disky

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So in conclusion, a little bit of a mix of Scaling so we can go anywhere, with some regular npc Mobs scattered in that make us a little cautious. Updating the HP & Damage of all the overland npc's in the game times 10 might make overland a bit more interesting.

I feel like you can scale everything as long as there is a reasonable level of difficulty within the scale, and that things make an amount of sense. Seekers are tough, they have some challenging abilities and that's good, they should be. They're not quite at the level of a DLC world boss, but a little under that. I think that's a good level for a challenging roamer and there should be more like them, but it can still exist within the level scaling system.

I think Seekers are a good example of harder content that no one bother with because they drop nothing useful but the Ichor (and people do not flock to Bastion Nymic anymore because, well, no useful rewards there either) . You won't see anyone killing Seekers for the fun of it. So, if something like this were to be introduced all over the place without appropriate rewords it will be dead very soon after the novelty of the change disappears.

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

I may be in the minority but I do actually fight them because it's fun. I agree though, for reward-driven players, unless it's worthwhile, the feature may not be for them. For those who care about challenge and the fun it can bring, it will be.

disky

Ugrak wrote: »

Don't necessarily need more than we have, but any potential reward structure for hard content should just be tied into the Undaunted somehow. They always seemed like such an underutilized faction in the game.

Yeah, that could certainly be one way to handle it from a lore perspective.

colossalvoids

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So in conclusion, a little bit of a mix of Scaling so we can go anywhere, with some regular npc Mobs scattered in that make us a little cautious. Updating the HP & Damage of all the overland npc's in the game times 10 might make overland a bit more interesting.

I feel like you can scale everything as long as there is a reasonable level of difficulty within the scale, and that things make an amount of sense. Seekers are tough, they have some challenging abilities and that's good, they should be. They're not quite at the level of a DLC world boss, but a little under that. I think that's a good level for a challenging roamer and there should be more like them, but it can still exist within the level scaling system.

I think Seekers are a good example of harder content that no one bother with because they drop nothing useful but the Ichor (and people do not flock to Bastion Nymic anymore because, well, no useful rewards there either) . You won't see anyone killing Seekers for the fun of it. So, if something like this were to be introduced all over the place without appropriate rewords it will be dead very soon after the novelty of the change disappears.

Examples like this make me always feel strong about a slider some are proposing. This example to me says more about state of the world in general, like it's not considered as a game currently by most people who are around in zones, it's more a get to X destination to do a Y action and port back asap for the next objective before logging off or play some other game mode that's considered more of a game, for example dungeons. That's why I personally always thought there should be a different instance with different ruleset altogether, aka make a game inside a game, when the current version could be just as it is if there's an audience for such a content. Hopefully their idea of new "vet zones" is somewhat tickles that in some manner.

Shara_Wynn

I would like ZOS to remove the majority of quest markers. There is no point in reading anything in the quest dialogue for clues as to where you should go or what you should do in order to obtain objective x,y or z because everything is always marked out for you, like a child.

Overland content is far too easy. And it's not just because you can kill all the mobs in one hit. It's such a shame because the zones are gorgeous, the storylines and plots pretty good, the voice acting is pretty spot on, all that effort put into the game, just so I can go speak to giant quest marker NPC A, travel to giant quest marker point B, collect 4 giant quest marker plant C's, kill giant quest marker mob D and hand back into giant quest marker NPC A again.

Whatever happened to players having to actually read dialogue for clues and use their brains to figure out where they are supposed to go, what they are supposed to do when they get there, what they are supposed to do next and where they are supposed to return to.

At the very least, there should be an option for players to turn these giant quest markers off.

Snamyap

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I would like ZOS to remove the majority of quest markers. There is no point in reading anything in the quest dialogue for clues as to where you should go or what you should do in order to obtain objective x,y or z because everything is always marked out for you, like a child.

Overland content is far too easy. And it's not just because you can kill all the mobs in one hit. It's such a shame because the zones are gorgeous, the storylines and plots pretty good, the voice acting is pretty spot on, all that effort put into the game, just so I can go speak to giant quest marker NPC A, travel to giant quest marker point B, collect 4 giant quest marker plant C's, kill giant quest marker mob D and hand back into giant quest marker NPC A again.

Whatever happened to players having to actually read dialogue for clues and use their brains to figure out where they are supposed to go, what they are supposed to do when they get there, what they are supposed to do next and where they are supposed to return to.

At the very least, there should be an option for players to turn these giant quest markers off.

They would have to redo (and redo the voice overs) for a lot of quests since most don't give any useful hints as to where to go. Working without quest markers is something that should have been done from the start. You can already turn them of, so go ahead. And even with redoing the quests most people would probably just use spoiler sites.

Shara_Wynn

Snamyap wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I would like ZOS to remove the majority of quest markers. There is no point in reading anything in the quest dialogue for clues as to where you should go or what you should do in order to obtain objective x,y or z because everything is always marked out for you, like a child.

Overland content is far too easy. And it's not just because you can kill all the mobs in one hit. It's such a shame because the zones are gorgeous, the storylines and plots pretty good, the voice acting is pretty spot on, all that effort put into the game, just so I can go speak to giant quest marker NPC A, travel to giant quest marker point B, collect 4 giant quest marker plant C's, kill giant quest marker mob D and hand back into giant quest marker NPC A again.

Whatever happened to players having to actually read dialogue for clues and use their brains to figure out where they are supposed to go, what they are supposed to do when they get there, what they are supposed to do next and where they are supposed to return to.

At the very least, there should be an option for players to turn these giant quest markers off.

They would have to redo (and redo the voice overs) for a lot of quests since most don't give any useful hints as to where to go. Working without quest markers is something that should have been done from the start. You can already turn them of, so go ahead. And even with redoing the quests most people would probably just use spoiler sites.

So I went into Interface and turned off both Quest Tracking and Quest Giver Icons and it made very little difference. When I select a quest in my journal and then select "show on map" it still tells me exactly where I have to go with giant quest markers on the map. When I zone in and bring up the map, it still highlights exactly where I have to go. When I arrive at the destination, there is still quest markers all over the plants and mobs in front of me, telling me I have to kill this or pick up that...

Is there something I am missing with turning off markers on everything? By markers I mean markers above NPC's heads, markers on my map (such as doorway markers or round highlighted areas that tell you exactly where in the world you need to go) and markers above objects and mobs in the actual world (such as above flowers I need to pick, or monsters I need to kill etc).

All I have been able to do is turn off the markers above the heads of quest givers, remove markers from my compass and to remove the little blurb of text that appears under my mini-map (which is not what I have an issue with). The game still shows me exactly where I have to go and exactly what I need to do when I get there.

I have not yet looked into add-ons that might help hide these markers, but really feel there should be some in-game option to disable these "cheat" markers without having to resort to a third party to do so.

Also I don't think they would have to redo all the voice acting at all. The journal already has written entries in them, that do give the players clues as to where to go and what to do, but these are pointless when the games just tells you where to go by placing giant icons on everything. And actually quite often the voice acting does include a lot of hints, especially if you have a quest NPC travelling with you, they will often say something to let you know if you are close to an objective, object, place that is relevant to the quest.

BasP

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I have not yet looked into add-ons that might help hide these markers, but really feel there should be some in-game option to disable these "cheat" markers without having to resort to a third party to do so.

The PinKiller addon seems to allow you to hide quest markers on the world map, and with Map Pins you can hide all sorts of other pins.

But it would be nice if similar functions were added to ESO itself, yeah.

Shara_Wynn

BasP wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I have not yet looked into add-ons that might help hide these markers, but really feel there should be some in-game option to disable these "cheat" markers without having to resort to a third party to do so.

The PinKiller addon seems to allow you to hide quest markers on the world map, and with Map Pins you can hide all sorts of other pins.

But it would be nice if similar functions were added to ESO itself, yeah.

Yes!!!

I have just installed this Add-On (PinKiller by Shinni) and for me it is a game changer. Already quests are far more enjoyable.

It's sad however, that it took an Add-On to have this option in game. Most new players have no idea about what Add-On's are available so end up finding out about them, way down the line. I researched and installed a bunch of Add-On's about a year into playing, that had been recommended by most of the ESO content creators, but none of them mentioned PinKiller sadly. I would have loved to have known about this Add-On three years ago when I first started playing. What a difference it would have made to my in game experience and immersion.

The function provided by Pinkliller coupled with an increase in overland mob difficulty should have been how the game was to begin with. I never played before One Tamriel, so I can't compare the game to what it was before, but certainly since I've joined the game, it (overland content) has been far too easy.

Tornaad

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So in conclusion, a little bit of a mix of Scaling so we can go anywhere, with some regular npc Mobs scattered in that make us a little cautious. Updating the HP & Damage of all the overland npc's in the game times 10 might make overland a bit more interesting.

I feel like you can scale everything as long as there is a reasonable level of difficulty within the scale, and that things make an amount of sense. Seekers are tough, they have some challenging abilities and that's good, they should be. They're not quite at the level of a DLC world boss, but a little under that. I think that's a good level for a challenging roamer and there should be more like them, but it can still exist within the level scaling system.

I think Seekers are a good example of harder content that no one bother with because they drop nothing useful but the Ichor (and people do not flock to Bastion Nymic anymore because, well, no useful rewards there either) . You won't see anyone killing Seekers for the fun of it. So, if something like this were to be introduced all over the place without appropriate rewords it will be dead very soon after the novelty of the change disappears.

Bottom line is I do not believe that people will rush to harder overland in droves without worthy rewards for it.

If they give us an option for harder overland from the moment of character creation, I will delete my DragonKnight character, recreate him so I can start from level one, and then set it on the hardest possible difficulty. The reason? I want to write an epic poem inspired by ESO and it is really hard to find inspiration when you cut through enemies like butter even when you don't spend stat points, keep level 1 gear, and only use non-combat champion points to boost your level without boosting your power.

old_scopie1945

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't use my Companions for questing. I only use them if I am soloing Dungeons or World Bosses or other more challenging content. Using Companions to quest in Overland just makes it that much easier, which isn't a problem for me. I just prefer to quest solo.

Some players don't use Companions at all and they should not forced into a playstyle they don't want to be able to handle a more difficult overland they also don't want.

I only use Ember, and that is only purely for company. Plain and simple, we all have our reasons. Strangely enough I chat to her, as she is the only one I can to most of the time. Strangely she never answers me. LOL.

BasP

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I have not yet looked into add-ons that might help hide these markers, but really feel there should be some in-game option to disable these "cheat" markers without having to resort to a third party to do so.

The PinKiller addon seems to allow you to hide quest markers on the world map, and with Map Pins you can hide all sorts of other pins.

But it would be nice if similar functions were added to ESO itself, yeah.

Yes!!!

I have just installed this Add-On (PinKiller by Shinni) and for me it is a game changer. Already quests are far more enjoyable.

You could check out this thread on the forums with a list of other mods that increase immersion. TrueExploration, which adds a fog of war over undiscovered places on the map, could maybe be nice if you're going to a zone you haven't explored yet for example.

Shara_Wynn

BasP wrote: »

You could check out this thread on the forums with a list of other mods that increase immersion. TrueExploration, which adds a fog of war over undiscovered places on the map, could maybe be nice if you're going to a zone you haven't explored yet for example.

Thanks for that. I shall indeed check it out! Already enjoying not having everything "tagged" for me, like I'm six years old! I just don't understand why this isn't the default in the game. Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to mark everything out?

Truly I am perplexed!

Ruthless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA8OmLh17QQ

Shara_Wynn

Ruthless wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA8OmLh17QQ

Another gem!

Thanks for this!

Installed both.

I honestly don't get why the game isn't already like this though.

**Edit**

And to keep this on topic, ZOS you really need to think about the above mentioned Add-On's and implementing them, or similar, into the game as a standard (with the option to have the current default setting for those players who wish to have everything shown to them on the map and in the virtual environment).

Removing the current spoon fed model to questing, alongside making all mobs in overland more difficult, would certainly entice quite a few folk (that I know of at least), back into giving ESO another look.

Deserrick

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun. With enough similar acknowledgment, maybe this proposed difficulty change can finally be one that works both ways, opening the game up to builds and playstyles outside of what guides (including the built-in one) tell players to do.

Snamyap

Has there been any clarification on what they are planning yet or when it will be announced?

Kallykat

Frooke wrote: »

Nowadays, the game is EXTREMELY easier. We have the Battle Leveling System, healing and defensive buffs available early on, CPs for veterans, and easy access to Mundus Stones thanks to Housing. Let’s not forget, we also have COMPANIONS. So, thinking that the game will somehow become difficult with all these conveniences doesn’t make sense. And for those struggling with the game, you can just craft gear with high resistance and Health Recovery, and the game will remain easy—or you can also use a Heavy Attack build (Oakensoul).

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.” Well, I don’t want to quest the way it currently is either. I prefer to read the lore on UESP because, without a bit of challenge, the game is basically just walking and clicking—boring

This argument could just as easily be flipped to say that those who want more difficulty can just craft gear with low resistance and health recovery or use a crummier build. If you're not willing to do that to achieve more difficulty, why should others be expected to do so to achieve more ease?

Nilandia

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun.

Counterpoint: For some players, the fun is in putting together a build that is most effective. It is like solving a puzzle, and seeing higher damage numbers is satisfying to a lot of them. For other players (myself included), the fun is the challenge itself, seeing how far you can push yourself and still defeat the boss.

Just because we like harder content or are running more optimal builds, doesn't mean we're not having fun.

Renato90085

Kallykat wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

Nowadays, the game is EXTREMELY easier. We have the Battle Leveling System, healing and defensive buffs available early on, CPs for veterans, and easy access to Mundus Stones thanks to Housing. Let’s not forget, we also have COMPANIONS. So, thinking that the game will somehow become difficult with all these conveniences doesn’t make sense. And for those struggling with the game, you can just craft gear with high resistance and Health Recovery, and the game will remain easy—or you can also use a Heavy Attack build (Oakensoul).

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.” Well, I don’t want to quest the way it currently is either. I prefer to read the lore on UESP because, without a bit of challenge, the game is basically just walking and clicking—boring

This argument could just as easily be flipped to say that those who want more difficulty can just craft gear with low resistance and health recovery or use a crummier build. If you're not willing to do that to achieve more difficulty, why should others be expected to do so to achieve more ease?

If last month I not try basegame overland use low armor(12k)and health(23k)character afk 5 min and still survive..
I will agree you

Deserrick

Nilandia wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun.

Counterpoint: For some players, the fun is in putting together a build that is most effective. It is like solving a puzzle, and seeing higher damage numbers is satisfying to a lot of them. For other players (myself included), the fun is the challenge itself, seeing how far you can push yourself and still defeat the boss.

Just because we like harder content or are running more optimal builds, doesn't mean we're not having fun.

That’s not a counter to my point, it’s a sidestep of my point.

Let’s say there is a game with 10 classes, and one of those 10 has by far the best numbers and can do the hardest content, while the other 9 lag far behind. Some people may have fun playing that 1 class so they can have the biggest numbers and do the hardest content, but the choice of class itself isn’t based on what class feels the most fun.

Having 90% of builds/playstyles lag far behind to the point they cannot do the content is functionally equivalent.