Overland Content Feedback Thread

Dagobertfuk

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I think its time to move on, and close this thread. lol However that would only spawn plenty of lets change overland to hard difficulty in the general discussion thread. The fact is and will remain that overland will be the same as it is for a long time. Some say its easy and other believe not so.

I believe it will be like this until they turn the lights off in this game. Eso shelf life would be at least 20 years. So for that long.

There were plently of threads about this topic over the years, with tons of tons of people, what want harder overland content arguing against the same people wich like it how it is and wich you can count on 3 hands.
All those threads got closed and we got this here, because those threads of people want harder content just got to many. Aslong there are people wich want engaging questexperience this threads will exsist and its not a question of moving on, because every new DLC gets released, is one more DLC with more quests you cant enjoy. But hey, there are archievements, skins and gimmiks. Atleast one aim they have until they let that content behind them.
When you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

spartaxoxo

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I think its time to move on, and close this thread. lol However that would only spawn plenty of lets change overland to hard difficulty in the general discussion thread. The fact is and will remain that overland will be the same as it is for a long time. Some say its easy and other believe not so.

I believe it will be like this until they turn the lights off in this game. Eso shelf life would be at least 20 years. So for that long.

The reason for this thread is to prevent new threads in GD. They clearly didn't listen to anything. They didn't respond to specific suggestions or feedback that was responsive to their old feedback. New sentiments. Instead they just repeated most of what they repeated the last time.

Fingolfinn01

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I think its time to move on, and close this thread. lol However that would only spawn plenty of lets change overland to hard difficulty in the general discussion thread. The fact is and will remain that overland will be the same as it is for a long time. Some say its easy and other believe not so.

I believe it will be like this until they turn the lights off in this game. Eso shelf life would be at least 20 years. So for that long.

There were plently of threads about this topic over the years, with tons of tons of people, what want harder overland content arguing against the same people wich like it how it is and wich you can count on 3 hands.
All those threads got closed and we got this here, because those threads of people want harder content just got to many. Aslong there are people wich want engaging questexperience this threads will exsist and its not a question of moving on, because every new DLC gets released, is one more DLC with more quests you cant enjoy. But hey, there are archievements, skins and gimmiks. Atleast one aim they have until they let that content behind them.
When you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

I would suggest instance quests with a difficult slider. However that would take a massive amount of effort. Lets be real here, its nice dreaming of ways to fix overland. However i can't see it changing in the life of this game.

Dagobertfuk

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I think its time to move on, and close this thread. lol However that would only spawn plenty of lets change overland to hard difficulty in the general discussion thread. The fact is and will remain that overland will be the same as it is for a long time. Some say its easy and other believe not so.

I believe it will be like this until they turn the lights off in this game. Eso shelf life would be at least 20 years. So for that long.

There were plently of threads about this topic over the years, with tons of tons of people, what want harder overland content arguing against the same people wich like it how it is and wich you can count on 3 hands.
All those threads got closed and we got this here, because those threads of people want harder content just got to many. Aslong there are people wich want engaging questexperience this threads will exsist and its not a question of moving on, because every new DLC gets released, is one more DLC with more quests you cant enjoy. But hey, there are archievements, skins and gimmiks. Atleast one aim they have until they let that content behind them.
When you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

I would suggest instance quests with a difficult slider. However that would take a massive amount of effort. Lets be real here, its nice dreaming of ways to fix overland. However i can't see it changing in the life of this game.

And? There is one or two other mmorpg's with difficulty sliders, but thats just one way of fixing overland. They get paid for their work, so let them work. The Server Rearchitecture ZOS is working at atm is a massive effort too. But they still do it because PvP is an important part of the game. Same as questing. Must be confusing for you why they still do it. Fixed PvP Performance was a nice dream for 7 Years and people told the same you do, but look at it now with the new hardware in PC-NA. Its not totally fixed, but its a good start and the server rearchitecture isnt even done. Not wanna be rude or so. But how i said, when you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

Riptide

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The reason for this thread is to prevent new threads in GD. They clearly didn't listen to anything. They didn't respond to specific suggestions or feedback that was responsive to their old feedback. New sentiments. Instead they just repeated most of what they repeated the last time.

Exactly this. Hundreds of pages back perfectly viable solutions were put forward which create no heartburn for casual players, that being a separate veteran overland mode that rewards things that are not unreachable in other ways by folks who choose not to avail themselves of the harder mode.

Instead of responses we get crack downs, bans and so on, and the thread is allowed to go over a hundred more pages in that state where folks new to the issue argue back and forth the same debates that have been argued over for almost a decade, literally. Fruitless debates, as ZOS remains entirely silent.

Folks wonder why long time players rarely weigh into the thread, that is why. And why we don’t really believe this is anything like a good faith canvass of the community’s views, but rather a culdeseac for any discussion about the matter.

It’s a shame. Particularly as we are now a year into companions with no tuning of overland difficulty or options and no meaningful response from ZOS.

They simply poured money unto a card game very few people wanted instead of substantively grappling with what is at the very core of the game, it is just as simple as that.

Fingolfinn01

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I think its time to move on, and close this thread. lol However that would only spawn plenty of lets change overland to hard difficulty in the general discussion thread. The fact is and will remain that overland will be the same as it is for a long time. Some say its easy and other believe not so.

I believe it will be like this until they turn the lights off in this game. Eso shelf life would be at least 20 years. So for that long.

There were plently of threads about this topic over the years, with tons of tons of people, what want harder overland content arguing against the same people wich like it how it is and wich you can count on 3 hands.
All those threads got closed and we got this here, because those threads of people want harder content just got to many. Aslong there are people wich want engaging questexperience this threads will exsist and its not a question of moving on, because every new DLC gets released, is one more DLC with more quests you cant enjoy. But hey, there are archievements, skins and gimmiks. Atleast one aim they have until they let that content behind them.
When you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

I would suggest instance quests with a difficult slider. However that would take a massive amount of effort. Lets be real here, its nice dreaming of ways to fix overland. However i can't see it changing in the life of this game.

And? There is one or two other mmorpg's with difficulty sliders, but thats just one way of fixing overland. They get paid for their work, so let them work. The Server Rearchitecture ZOS is working at atm is a massive effort too. But they still do it because PvP is an important part of the game. Same as questing. Must be confusing for you why they still do it. Fixed PvP Performance was a nice dream for 7 Years and people told the same you do, but look at it now with the new hardware in PC-NA. Its not totally fixed, but its a good start and the server rearchitecture isnt even done. Not wanna be rude or so. But how i said, when you've come to terms with that nothing will change ever, then this is the wrong thread for you.

I will concede that zos holds it cards close to its chest. So out of the blue they may come out and say they are implementing a solution to the overland content.

Riptide

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I will concede that zos holds it cards close to its chest. So out of the blue they may come out and say they are implementing a solution to the overland content.

That would be so very welcome. But I will point out that this thread was created in November of last year, over half the development cycle of the current expansion. Eight full months ago.

And companions were released a year ago, with a year of development. You have to ask yourself, in a full 20 months, there really wasn’t the will internally to look at overland balance and options in a serious way - when adding and continuing to add companions which shifts it dramatically?

I think realistically just have to reckon that sadly, whatever folks were capable of implementing a workable solution have been tasked to other projects or have been sidelined for crown store, card games and other things with paths to clear monetization. Which can be outsourced more easily. Just is what it is.

spartaxoxo

The companions were actually added to address non-quest Overland content (specifically the bosses and such) being too difficult for many players.

They left them than at 5-10k dps specifically so they weren't out-damaging most of the playerbase. This means that most of the playerbase is in that range. The Overland has some challenge at that level. This is why they didn't tune the basic level of difficulty. It wouldn't make sense. They aren't going to increase the level of difficulty for people after introducing a gameplay feature designed to lower the strain for world bosses.

Better to have an optional increase instead.

Riptide

Like most of this thread, we are actually in accord entirely at the bottom of it.

Brass tacks - optional difficulty increase. Been being asked for since the alpha.

Endless pages of debate circling around people arguing that it should not be mandatory, which virtually no one wants.

And also endless pages back and forth sourced from folks who like overland just as it is and are concerned the FOMO of whatever rewards made available by a harder mode won’t be available to them, which the vast majority of folks who crave a non artificial challenge are willing to concede in some way.

There really is no real debate, simply need an optional harder overland mode that doesn’t award stuff only reachable that way. Done and done. Can be accomplished in several ways outlined early in this thread.

If the folks with decision making authority would simply throw on even middling gear, summon a companion and traipse around using virtually anything but heavy/light attack for more than the rare half hour session here and there it would be obvious what we have been getting at for years.

spartaxoxo

Riptide wrote: »

And also endless pages back and forth sourced from folks who like overland just as it

I wasn't certain whether or not you wanted it, but you stated the Overland should have been rebalanced due to companions causing a large shift in balance. They only caused a large shift in balance for those on the lower end of the power scale. People with a lot of power, for the most encounters, didn't find themselves suddenly able to do anything they hadn't already done.

So I took that to mean what you wanted was the overland's default state rebalanced to be harder to accommodate companions. A rebalance to the default state would be a mandatory change rather than an optional, which is why I felt it important to point out how little companions add to vet players, why they were added, and why I feel that such a mandatory rebalance would not make sense to me.

I really only state this when I see a new suggestion that references mandatory changes, as I do not believe a mandatory change is appropriate.

As I have stated from the very first page of this thread, and even before this thread was created, I am in favor of optional changes. I have no fear of missing out on rewards. I don't think they should concern themselves with rewards though, because they have stated that one of the largest factors in us not getting it is they don't want to give us rewards that open a can of worms. In my opinion, any rewards of significance does that. Stuff like purple companion gear may be obtainable elsewhere, but it is a massive reward that is next to impossible to get with casual play. So something like that would open a can of worms. But that's the kind of stuff people want for questing.

Eta
So in other words just do the optional difficulty increase without the rewards. I don't care about them.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

And also endless pages back and forth sourced from folks who like overland just as it

As I have stated from the very first page of this thread, and even before this thread was created, I am in favor of optional changes. I have no fear of missing out on rewards. I don't think they should concern themselves with rewards though, because they have stated that one of the largest factors in us not getting it is they don't want to give us rewards that open a can of worms. In my opinion, any rewards of significance does that. Stuff like purple companion gear may be obtainable elsewhere, but it is a massive reward that is next to impossible to get with casual play. So something like that would open a can of worms. But that's the kind of stuff people want for questing.

Eta
So in other words just do the optional difficulty increase without the rewards. I don't care about them.

But if I remember correctly you, among some other players was concerned/skeptical about the fact that any potential changes would only benefit minority. The rewards are not mandatory for those who feel strongly about it as it is, it’s for players who might be interested in it if it has proper motivation, to make it appealing for larger group and thus more justified to be worth working on.

Companion gear was just an example among many possibilities suggested in this thread. A small remark why I decided to pick it: it’s niche and only useful for overland/solo content anyway, not bound and can be easily bought from traders or farmed elsewhere, the difference between purple and blue gear is really small (much smaller than if player themselves would use purple non perfected sets vs perfected and gold) and won’t affect players who play casual builds.

Why worry about potential feelings (most won’t care either way) of some people who won’t engage with any possible rework more than about those who would participate in it?

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

And also endless pages back and forth sourced from folks who like overland just as it

As I have stated from the very first page of this thread, and even before this thread was created, I am in favor of optional changes. I have no fear of missing out on rewards. I don't think they should concern themselves with rewards though, because they have stated that one of the largest factors in us not getting it is they don't want to give us rewards that open a can of worms. In my opinion, any rewards of significance does that. Stuff like purple companion gear may be obtainable elsewhere, but it is a massive reward that is next to impossible to get with casual play. So something like that would open a can of worms. But that's the kind of stuff people want for questing.

Eta
So in other words just do the optional difficulty increase without the rewards. I don't care about them.

But if I remember correctly you, among some other players was concerned/skeptical about the fact that any potential changes would only benefit minority. The rewards are not mandatory for those who feel strongly about it as it is, it’s for players who might be interested in it if it has proper motivation, to make it appealing for larger group and thus more justified to be worth working on.

Companion gear was just an example among many possibilities suggested in this thread. A small remark why I decided to pick it: it’s niche and only useful for overland/solo content anyway, not bound and can be easily bought from traders or farmed elsewhere, the difference between purple and blue gear is really small (much smaller than if player themselves would use purple non perfected sets vs perfected and gold) and won’t affect players who play casual builds.

Why worry about potential feelings (most won’t care either way) of some people who won’t engage with any possible rework more than about those who would participate in it?

A extremely rare item worth millions cannot be easily obtained elsewhere. It's nothing potential about it. It's basic game design. If the rewards are good enough, people will make themselves do content they don't enjoy. That's fine for events. It's not fine for the long-term health of the game to have the primary content feel unrewarding on the mode most people want to play it, and very unfun for the stuff they don't. It's not going to feel truly optional with such a massive reward.

You already see it happening during every pvp event but that's temporary.

And the devs flat out said they don't want to open that can of worms. This is an ultimate reason why we aren't getting anything. Because some vet players will expect something like that, but it screws over the casual players in a way the devs know would cause problems.

It's not appropriate for vet quests to make vet players millionaires while casual players get a few hundred coins and a pat on the back. That is guaranteed going to cause problems. I don't understand why you'd think such a massive reward from for such a casual focused system would be a good idea. TBH.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

And also endless pages back and forth sourced from folks who like overland just as it

As I have stated from the very first page of this thread, and even before this thread was created, I am in favor of optional changes. I have no fear of missing out on rewards. I don't think they should concern themselves with rewards though, because they have stated that one of the largest factors in us not getting it is they don't want to give us rewards that open a can of worms. In my opinion, any rewards of significance does that. Stuff like purple companion gear may be obtainable elsewhere, but it is a massive reward that is next to impossible to get with casual play. So something like that would open a can of worms. But that's the kind of stuff people want for questing.

Eta
So in other words just do the optional difficulty increase without the rewards. I don't care about them.

But if I remember correctly you, among some other players was concerned/skeptical about the fact that any potential changes would only benefit minority. The rewards are not mandatory for those who feel strongly about it as it is, it’s for players who might be interested in it if it has proper motivation, to make it appealing for larger group and thus more justified to be worth working on.

Companion gear was just an example among many possibilities suggested in this thread. A small remark why I decided to pick it: it’s niche and only useful for overland/solo content anyway, not bound and can be easily bought from traders or farmed elsewhere, the difference between purple and blue gear is really small (much smaller than if player themselves would use purple non perfected sets vs perfected and gold) and won’t affect players who play casual builds.

Why worry about potential feelings (most won’t care either way) of some people who won’t engage with any possible rework more than about those who would participate in it?

A extremely rare item worth millions cannot be easily obtained elsewhere. It's nothing potential about it. It's basic game design. If the rewards are good enough, people will make themselves do content they don't enjoy. That's fine for events. It's not fine for the long-term health of the game to have the primary content feel unrewarding on the mode most people want to play it, and very unfun for the stuff they don't. It's not going to feel truly optional with such a massive reward.

You already see it happening during every pvp event but that's temporary.

And the devs flat out said they don't want to open that can of worms. This is an ultimate reason why we aren't getting anything. Because some vet players will expect something like that, but it screws over the casual players in a way the devs know would cause problems.

It's not appropriate for vet quests to make vet players millionaires while casual players get a few hundred coins and a pat on the back. That is guaranteed going to cause problems. I don't understand why you'd think such a massive reward from for such a casual focused system would be a good idea. TBH.

You overestimate quite a few details here. Purple gear is rare, but not extremely rare. I’ve got maybe around 20-25 different pieces since Blackwood and i do group content and pvp more frequently than solo so it’s not aetherial dust kind of rare. Public dungeons and alikr zombies are good places to farm it and i had a feeling it drops on some cooldown (in my experience i got it with high chance from first minutes i play and much rarer later until 20 hours cooldown or something like that). Not all of it was expensive either, some traits and weapons are just bad and unwanted and so it’s not going to make a fortune, especially considering that one such source could potentially lower the prices and make it more affordable for “majority” you care about.

Even from gold making stand point it’s far more profitable to farm monthly style pages from dungeons, do hms for newest motifs, farm IC bosses, do carry runs, buy-resell or simply do writs. I don’t like half of these activities but I could always skip them while doing something else and buy what i miss from traders. It’s just a small thing that makes it worth while to try to engage in something different rather than exiting grinding. You make it sound like it’s going to break the game but I really doubt it would be the case or else those “casual players” would left over existing grinds since most of them require dedication, time and effort.

Just to give some personal example: i wanted a painting with rare drop rate exclusive to card game, I didn’t find it enjoyable so instead of grinding I bought it with no hard feelings. Why fluff like purple companion gear would be any different? I get that some people are angry about anything that doesn’t cater to them but from my experience most are chill about some uniqueness to different rewards from different content. There is nothing unfair about it, especially since it’s possible to add blue drops for normal mode.

spartaxoxo

Items worth millions of coins and are very rare are not just a small thing. Everything is a small thing by that metric. Actually certain pieces sell for much more than aetheiral dust. There are few items in this game worth more, or that are more valuable to systems intended primarily for casual players. A painting is a cosmetic. It doesn't change your gameplay.

The idea that some of the most sought after, expensive, and desired items can be placed into vet content and then none of them would feel pressured to go get it themselves, and instead will happily fork over millions of coins to vet players is frankly unempathetic.

And is explicitly the reason we don't have vet options.

You are basically saying that gameplay impacting content intended for casuals should be out of their reach, and instead they should have to pay vet players for them. Because you bought a painting for your house one time.

I'm sorry but I can't think of few more spectacularly unfair rewards.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Items worth millions of coins and are very rare are not just a small thing. Everything is a small thing by that metric. Actually certain pieces sell for much more than aetheiral dust. There are few items in this game worth more, or that are more valuable to systems intended primarily for casual players. A painting is a cosmetic. It doesn't change your gameplay.

The idea that some of the most sought after, expensive, and desired items can be placed into vet content and then none of them would feel pressured to go get it themselves, and instead will happily fork over millions of coins to vet players is frankly unempathetic.

And is explicitly the reason we don't have vet options.

You are basically saying that gameplay impacting content intended for casuals should be out of their reach, and instead they should have to pay vet players for them. Because you bought a painting for your house one time.

I'm sorry but I can't think of few more spectacularly unfair rewards.

1) Not all purple companion gear worth millions of gold, only a few specific pieces are, namely aggressive medium armor, bow, lightning staff, soothing light armor, restoration staff and jewelry with respected traits. Everything else varies between 300k and 10k. Vigorous inferno staff, profilic hat, soothing dagger just to name the pieces you’d be lucky to sell for more than 30k. You won’t get rich even if it was farmable because the odds of getting trash drops much higher than expensive pieces. It’s merely some possibility of compensation to motivate players to do content. I already named activities, which much more effective for gold farming and this wouldn’t replace them by mile.

2) Adding guaranteed source like that should actually drop the prices down so make it more affordable.

3) Purple companion gear is basically a cosmetic. The difference of 10000 and 10500 dps is minimal, same for healing and tanking. You most likely won’t even notice the difference, at least I didn’t. For me it was merely a gold sink and knowing that this part is min-maxed as well as my own build. Purple gear in that case not even as useful as golding jewelry or farming perfected sets, i’m not sure why you saw it as gating or something, it’s more or less just as cosmetic as painting and don’t change gameplay in meaningful way.

I really don’t get why you react like my suggestion would rob casual players of their enjoyment and turn it to my benefit because this is not the case. It’s merely a thought on how to incentivize players to participate in higher difficulties, nothing is removed or changed for anyone else. It isn’t even a unique cosmetic or achievements, something easily substituted or obtained elsewhere.

The main point though was how to make it attractive for players to participate in vet questing. Because if this part is ignored (how you insist) than it most likely repeat “success” of Craglorn and Cadwell silver/gold and you’d left to wonder why players aren’t doing hard unrewarding content...

spartaxoxo

It's not about whether it would replace farming. I never said that it would. [snip]

It's about whether or not a ONE TIME quest (which duh does not replace farming) should be giving one player an extremely rare and expensive item, while the other gets utter garbage. And how that massive difference in rewards is likely to impact which content people play.

But, go ahead and keep asking for extremely rare items that can be worth millions of coins. The devs hear you loud and clear. And the answer is, "we're not going to make a vet overland since this is what people want." They were extremely clear on that. They will give us nothing before they give us that.

Total shame to me. Players wanting massive rewards for doing a quest means I can't have immersive gameplay. Such is life. I guess I'm alone in not caring about rewards. I don't need them. I just want difficulty options.

But you guys keep asking for expensive items explicitly designed for casuals. All feedback is welcome.

FYI: Companion gear is not a cosmetic. It impacts gameplay. Changing my Companions gear from blue to purple, had changed what content he can tank. That's an objective fact, not opinion. Companion gear is a gameplay impacting feature. Period.

I honestly could not think of a more inappropriate reward. Hey casuals this massive improvement in your gameplay for a gameplay system explicitly designed and marketed towards you, is going to be locked behind content you can't do. Go give your coins to players more deserving. How could that possibly be fair?

[edited for baiting]

Dagobertfuk

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Items worth millions of coins and are very rare are not just a small thing. Everything is a small thing by that metric. Actually certain pieces sell for much more than aetheiral dust. There are few items in this game worth more, or that are more valuable to systems intended primarily for casual players. A painting is a cosmetic. It doesn't change your gameplay.

The idea that some of the most sought after, expensive, and desired items can be placed into vet content and then none of them would feel pressured to go get it themselves, and instead will happily fork over millions of coins to vet players is frankly unempathetic.

And is explicitly the reason we don't have vet options.

You are basically saying that gameplay impacting content intended for casuals should be out of their reach, and instead they should have to pay vet players for them. Because you bought a painting for your house one time.

I'm sorry but I can't think of few more spectacularly unfair rewards.

1) Not all purple companion gear worth millions of gold, only a few specific pieces are, namely aggressive medium armor, bow, lightning staff, soothing light armor, restoration staff and jewelry with respected traits. Everything else varies between 300k and 10k. Vigorous inferno staff, profilic hat, soothing dagger just to name the pieces you’d be lucky to sell for more than 30k. You won’t get rich even if it was farmable because the odds of getting trash drops much higher than expensive pieces. It’s merely some possibility of compensation to motivate players to do content. I already named activities, which much more effective for gold farming and this wouldn’t replace them by mile.

2) Adding guaranteed source like that should actually drop the prices down so make it more affordable.

3) Purple companion gear is basically a cosmetic. The difference of 10000 and 10500 dps is minimal, same for healing and tanking. You most likely won’t even notice the difference, at least I didn’t. For me it was merely a gold sink and knowing that this part is min-maxed as well as my own build. Purple gear in that case not even as useful as golding jewelry or farming perfected sets, i’m not sure why you saw it as gating or something, it’s more or less just as cosmetic as painting and don’t change gameplay in meaningful way.

I really don’t get why you react like my suggestion would rob casual players of their enjoyment and turn it to my benefit because this is not the case. It’s merely a thought on how to incentivize players to participate in higher difficulties, nothing is removed or changed for anyone else. It isn’t even a unique cosmetic or achievements, something easily substituted or obtained elsewhere.

The main point though was how to make it attractive for players to participate in vet questing. Because if this part is ignored (how you insist) than it most likely repeat “success” of Craglorn and Cadwell silver/gold and you’d left to wonder why players aren’t doing hard unrewarding content...

[snip]
But i have the same opinion like Sparta about rewards. The reason why this thread and the countless other threads about that topic exsist is because people want engaging quests. I dont think people care about loot, when the Overland questexperience doesnt feel anymore that exaggerated easy, that you could think its designed for bots.

[Edited for Baiting]

spartaxoxo

Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms.

Just so the quote I am referencing is clear.

Aardappelboom

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I will concede that zos holds it cards close to its chest. So out of the blue they may come out and say they are implementing a solution to the overland content.

And should gloriously reward the contributor of the original idea that ended up getting implemented

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Items worth millions of coins and are very rare are not just a small thing. Everything is a small thing by that metric. Actually certain pieces sell for much more than aetheiral dust. There are few items in this game worth more, or that are more valuable to systems intended primarily for casual players. A painting is a cosmetic. It doesn't change your gameplay.

The idea that some of the most sought after, expensive, and desired items can be placed into vet content and then none of them would feel pressured to go get it themselves, and instead will happily fork over millions of coins to vet players is frankly unempathetic.

And is explicitly the reason we don't have vet options.

You are basically saying that gameplay impacting content intended for casuals should be out of their reach, and instead they should have to pay vet players for them. Because you bought a painting for your house one time.

I'm sorry but I can't think of few more spectacularly unfair rewards.

1) Not all purple companion gear worth millions of gold, only a few specific pieces are, namely aggressive medium armor, bow, lightning staff, soothing light armor, restoration staff and jewelry with respected traits. Everything else varies between 300k and 10k. Vigorous inferno staff, profilic hat, soothing dagger just to name the pieces you’d be lucky to sell for more than 30k. You won’t get rich even if it was farmable because the odds of getting trash drops much higher than expensive pieces. It’s merely some possibility of compensation to motivate players to do content. I already named activities, which much more effective for gold farming and this wouldn’t replace them by mile.

2) Adding guaranteed source like that should actually drop the prices down so make it more affordable.

3) Purple companion gear is basically a cosmetic. The difference of 10000 and 10500 dps is minimal, same for healing and tanking. You most likely won’t even notice the difference, at least I didn’t. For me it was merely a gold sink and knowing that this part is min-maxed as well as my own build. Purple gear in that case not even as useful as golding jewelry or farming perfected sets, i’m not sure why you saw it as gating or something, it’s more or less just as cosmetic as painting and don’t change gameplay in meaningful way.

I really don’t get why you react like my suggestion would rob casual players of their enjoyment and turn it to my benefit because this is not the case. It’s merely a thought on how to incentivize players to participate in higher difficulties, nothing is removed or changed for anyone else. It isn’t even a unique cosmetic or achievements, something easily substituted or obtained elsewhere.

The main point though was how to make it attractive for players to participate in vet questing. Because if this part is ignored (how you insist) than it most likely repeat “success” of Craglorn and Cadwell silver/gold and you’d left to wonder why players aren’t doing hard unrewarding content...

[snip]
But i have the same opinion like Sparta about rewards. The reason why this thread and the countless other threads about that topic exsist is because people want engaging quests. I dont think people care about loot, when the Overland questexperience doesnt feel anymore that exaggerated easy, that you could think its designed for bots.

[Edited for Baiting]

I agree, difficulty is not always linked to rewards, this is about personal preference, a way to experience the stories layed out in front of us, it's not a new game system. It's basically a QOL update at this point.

This should not be overcomplicated, and the dev time for this, as is a concern from some of the posters here, doesn't need to be huge.

Allow for people to debuff themselves through a difficulty slider, in the same way it happens today for PVP, quick and easy.

Dagobertfuk

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

I will concede that zos holds it cards close to its chest. So out of the blue they may come out and say they are implementing a solution to the overland content.

And should gloriously reward the contributor of the original idea that ended up getting implemented

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Items worth millions of coins and are very rare are not just a small thing. Everything is a small thing by that metric. Actually certain pieces sell for much more than aetheiral dust. There are few items in this game worth more, or that are more valuable to systems intended primarily for casual players. A painting is a cosmetic. It doesn't change your gameplay.

The idea that some of the most sought after, expensive, and desired items can be placed into vet content and then none of them would feel pressured to go get it themselves, and instead will happily fork over millions of coins to vet players is frankly unempathetic.

And is explicitly the reason we don't have vet options.

You are basically saying that gameplay impacting content intended for casuals should be out of their reach, and instead they should have to pay vet players for them. Because you bought a painting for your house one time.

I'm sorry but I can't think of few more spectacularly unfair rewards.

1) Not all purple companion gear worth millions of gold, only a few specific pieces are, namely aggressive medium armor, bow, lightning staff, soothing light armor, restoration staff and jewelry with respected traits. Everything else varies between 300k and 10k. Vigorous inferno staff, profilic hat, soothing dagger just to name the pieces you’d be lucky to sell for more than 30k. You won’t get rich even if it was farmable because the odds of getting trash drops much higher than expensive pieces. It’s merely some possibility of compensation to motivate players to do content. I already named activities, which much more effective for gold farming and this wouldn’t replace them by mile.

2) Adding guaranteed source like that should actually drop the prices down so make it more affordable.

3) Purple companion gear is basically a cosmetic. The difference of 10000 and 10500 dps is minimal, same for healing and tanking. You most likely won’t even notice the difference, at least I didn’t. For me it was merely a gold sink and knowing that this part is min-maxed as well as my own build. Purple gear in that case not even as useful as golding jewelry or farming perfected sets, i’m not sure why you saw it as gating or something, it’s more or less just as cosmetic as painting and don’t change gameplay in meaningful way.

I really don’t get why you react like my suggestion would rob casual players of their enjoyment and turn it to my benefit because this is not the case. It’s merely a thought on how to incentivize players to participate in higher difficulties, nothing is removed or changed for anyone else. It isn’t even a unique cosmetic or achievements, something easily substituted or obtained elsewhere.

The main point though was how to make it attractive for players to participate in vet questing. Because if this part is ignored (how you insist) than it most likely repeat “success” of Craglorn and Cadwell silver/gold and you’d left to wonder why players aren’t doing hard unrewarding content...

[snip]
But i have the same opinion like Sparta about rewards. The reason why this thread and the countless other threads about that topic exsist is because people want engaging quests. I dont think people care about loot, when the Overland questexperience doesnt feel anymore that exaggerated easy, that you could think its designed for bots.

[Edited for Baiting]

I agree, difficulty is not always linked to rewards, this is about personal preference, a way to experience the stories layed out in front of us, it's not a new game system. It's basically a QOL update at this point.

This should not be overcomplicated, and the dev time for this, as is a concern from some of the posters here, doesn't need to be huge.

Allow for people to debuff themselves through a difficulty slider, in the same way it happens today for PVP, quick and easy.

Other players or Bots without debuffs will just kill every mob you are fighting by twoshotthing them. This game got the most greedy playerbase i have ever seen. They always try to steal something from you, even if its just exp they wanna get. In 99/100 cases if other players come across, they wont let you fight your enemys alone.
Debuff on yourself will make you hate this game. Not in instanced mainquests, but in overland for sure.

And thats why i prefer to revert difficulty back to like how own faction overland base difficulty was before One Tamriel.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It's not about whether it would replace farming. I never said that it would. [snip]

It's about whether or not a ONE TIME quest (which duh does not replace farming) should be giving one player an extremely rare and expensive item, while the other gets utter garbage.

I honestly could not think of a more inappropriate reward. Hey casuals this massive improvement in your gameplay for a gameplay system explicitly designed and marketed towards you, is going to be locked behind content you can't do. Go give your coins to players more deserving. How could that possibly be fair?

[snip]

In that case your position wasn’t changed, you wrote it yourself that vet players would make millions of gold by selling purple companion gear. I’m telling you it would not be the case when most of it already in cheap price range (at least for pc eu) and you can check ttc to verify it. Only few pieces with specific traits are expensive and if they had guaranteed drop from somewhere those prices would drop as well and make it more affordable to everyone.

And how that massive difference in rewards is likely to impact which content people play.

It’s not as massive as you make it out to be. But yes, it should incentivize people try out high difficulties not just out right ignore it as something niche and useless. Because in that case we can just return at the beginning of Rich’s quote where he states that Craglorn and Silver/Gold zones weren’t hitting numbers they needed/wanted them to.

But, go ahead and keep asking for extremely rare items that can be worth millions of coins. The devs hear you loud and clear. And the answer is, "we're not going to make a vet overland since this is what people want." They were extremely clear on that. They will give us nothing before they give us that.

Total shame to me. Players wanting massive rewards for doing a quest means I can't have immersive gameplay. Such is life. I guess I'm alone in not caring about rewards. I don't need them. I just want difficulty options.

You made it sound like opinion on the forum means so much that it holds back this whole thing on hold. It can’t be further from the truth. I sincerely doubt that devs aware of most points made there otherwise Rich’s opinion on it would change at least a bit in that recent interview but it didn’t.

I kind of take it you really don’t want any increased rewards for personal reasons. But speaking for the devs and changing their statements to accommodate your view? It doesn’t make your points more convincing.

But you guys keep asking for expensive items explicitly designed for casuals.

The main contradiction here is: that you keep insisting how expensive and exclusive purple gear is, yet ignoring the fact that casual players can’t afford it now or else they wouldn’t be so casual and they most likely don’t even care to min max them to that level. I would argue that while companions themselves designed for casuals purple gear for them is completely optional, had minimal benefits compared to blue and feels more like cosmetic fluff to dump your gold on rather than serve as some sort of gatekeeping. To me, it’s just seems to fill the niche of rewards for overland pretty well.

FYI: Companion gear is not a cosmetic. It impacts gameplay. Changing my Companions gear from blue to purple, had changed what content he can tank. That's an objective fact, not opinion. Companion gear is a gameplay impacting feature. Period.

They get like 1k extra resistance and a bit more mitigation or hp (depending on trait). It wouldn’t impact their performance in any meaningful way and I had hard time believing you on that one.

[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It's not about whether it would replace farming. I never said that it would. Please stop responding to me as if I said that it would. [snip]

It's about whether or not a ONE TIME quest (which duh does not replace farming) should be giving one player an extremely rare and expensive item, while the other gets utter garbage.

I honestly could not think of a more inappropriate reward. Hey casuals this massive improvement in your gameplay for a gameplay system explicitly designed and marketed towards you, is going to be locked behind content you can't do. Go give your coins to players more deserving. How could that possibly be fair?

[snip]

[snip]

In that case your position wasn’t changed, you wrote it yourself that vet players would make millions of gold by selling purple companion gear.

Vet players can make millions off a good piece of purple equipment =/It will no be superior to farming. That stuff is not going to become extremely cheap very quickly, but I don't want to get off topic on a market analysis that isn't even coming from two people on the same platform.

You made it sound like opinion on the forum means so much that it holds back this whole thing on hold

It's not that it's an opinion on the forums. It's the general idea that vet players need to have such massive rewards. Which is what they flat out stated multiple times is a big reason we don't have it. Every post here saying that they can't do vet without nice and big rewards like that is reinforcing that belief they already had.

The main contradiction here is: that you keep insisting how expensive and exclusive purple gear is, yet ignoring the fact that casual players can’t afford it now

Because it's not the case. Casuals are some of the biggest spenders I have met. I have met a ton that drops hundreds of dollars to even a thousand dollars every year on housing and use those just to make their roleplay more fun. They roll new character after new character, and spend big everytime they do. I'm not sure why you'd think they can't afford nice stuff. Why would the devs be catering to them so hard if they weren't making big money off of them? Most of the crowns I've bought in-game have been from casuals with a lot of money who don't spend a ton of time playing this game.

tonyblack wrote: »

They get like 1k extra resistance and a bit more mitigation or hp (depending on trait). It wouldn’t impact their performance in any meaningful way and I had hard time believing you on that one.

It can be the difference between Bastian was 1-shot, and Bastian got healed back up after losing nearly all of his health. I use him as a tank, so I notice how well he handles with every piece I upgrade. There's a clear gameplay difference, and I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that stat increases can make a difference in a fight. But it is absolutely not cosmetic.


And no I didn't change the developers word.

Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms.

This is the direct quote.


The phrase "ultimately it comes down" indicates that this a big reason something is happening. And to "Open a can of worms" means that attempting to solve a problem would create a mess of new problems. They are explicitly stating that incentivizing it would cause problems, and that this is a big factor in this decision.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/?beta=1

And this is not the only time they've explicitly stated that incentives are a major limiting factor either..

There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

Here they are saying that players are are not going to do it if they don't get anything of out of it and that they don't know how they'd incentivize it.




So yes, I think this is a fair paraphrase of their position.

And the devs flat out said they don't want to open that can of worms. This is an ultimate reason why we aren't getting anything. Because some vet players will expect something like that, but it screws over the casual players in a way the devs know would cause problems.

In fact, if anything I softened it. They stated "If you're not going to get anything out of it why do it?" without saying this only applies to some. How unfair to players that want rewards. /s

[edited to remove some back-and-forth]

tonyblack

It's not that it's an opinion on the forums. It's the general idea that vet players need to have such massive rewards. Which is what they flat out stated multiple times is a big reason we don't have it. Every post here saying that they can't do vet without nice and big rewards like that is reinforcing that belief they already had.

Well, and ignoring that point would get them nowhere as well. At least if devs have some number expectation of how popular some part of the game should be. If amount of players who would engage in said rework aren’t the issue then they are free to ignore the reward part.
My biggest concern here is that if they work with expectation of already low engagement then they most likely commit minimal efforts and resources on such rework leaving most of those who wanted it unsatisfied. I just hope that they’ll be able to find approach that delicately addressed concerns from both sides and find some compromises that benefit all.

Because it's not the case. Casuals are some of the biggest spenders I have met. I have met a ton that drops hundreds of dollars to even a thousand dollars every year on housing and use those just to make their roleplay more fun. They roll new character after new character, and spend big everytime they do. I'm not sure why you'd think they can't afford nice stuff. Why would the devs be catering to them so hard if they weren't making big money off of them? Most of the crowns I've bought in-game have been from casuals with a lot of money who don't spend a ton of time playing this game.

Then we have a different understanding of what term casual player refers to. I think it was quoted somewhere in this topic as well but there was an interview how huge chunk of playerbase, which plays only around DLC releases, barely logging on every week and have around 400 CP. Players like that aren’t dishing millions of gold they don’t have on companion gear they don’t need. Those rich housing enthusiasts just as rare if not rarer than endgame pve players. And so I take your statement with a grain of salt because those players would lose absolutely nothing and most likely wouldn’t care.

It can be the difference between Bastian was 1-shot, and Bastian got healed back up after losing nearly all of his health. I use him as a tank, so I notice how well he handles with every piece I upgrade. There's a clear gameplay difference, and I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that stat increases can make a difference in a fight. But it is absolutely not cosmetic.

I played with him as tank as well, I don’t remember a single fight where minimal mitigation bonus would make a difference. Any examples where it was beneficial for you? From my experience he have no problems blocking hard hitting telegraphed attacks where his tanking fall short is aoe and dots. And in last 2 cases minimal difference between blue and purple would mean 1 extra second before he die at best.

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

Well, and ignoring that point would get them nowhere as well. At least if devs have some number expectation of how popular some part of the game should be. If amount of players who would engage in said rework aren’t the issue then they are free to ignore the reward part.
My biggest concern here is that if they work with expectation of already low engagement then they most likely commit minimal efforts and resources on such rework leaving most of those who wanted it unsatisfied. I just hope that they’ll be able to find approach that delicately addressed concerns from both sides and find some compromises that benefit all.

My biggest concern is that they will continue to refuse to do anything at all, as they have been doing. I don't see something minor as an enemy of something major. I see the idea of perfection becoming the enemy of good.

Then we have a different understanding of what term casual player refers to. I think it was quoted somewhere in this topic as well but there was an interview how huge chunk of playerbase, which plays only around DLC releases, barely logging on every week and have around 400 CP. Players like that aren’t dishing millions of gold they don’t have on companion gear they don’t need. Those rich housing enthusiasts just as rare if not rarer than endgame pve players. And so I take your statement with a grain of salt because those players would lose absolutely nothing and most likely wouldn’t care.

For me, I think of casuals as people who don't engage with a lot of harder content, and/or don't spend a ton of time in the game. They use money as a shortcut for the time they aren't putting into the game. They may not necessarily buy houses (although many of the ones I personally know do), but they will buy crowns and use it to buy cosmetics or convert their crowns into coins. These are the people who buy all those skyshards and stuff too. I saw a video that said that players like these are like 90% of most games income. Given Rich emphasized the finances as a reason (we've never been more successful than we are today was the exact thing he said) why they aren't doing this, I have to assume that is also the case with ESO. These guys just want to come in and play a little while, play some quests, and then leave until the next expansion. They will spend their money on the stuff that they use: companions, motifs, skyshard, mount training, comsetics, etc in the crown store. And they aren't really that concerned about stuff they wouldn't use.

I played with him as tank as well, I don’t remember a single fight where minimal mitigation bonus would make a difference. Any examples where it was beneficial for you? From my experience he have no problems blocking hard hitting telegraphed attacks where his tanking fall short is aoe and dots. And in last 2 cases minimal difference between blue and purple would mean 1 extra second before he die at best.

I don't have him fully purpled yet, but one thing I remember immediately was the dragons in Elsweyr. He used to die guaranteed to the bite attack everytime, and I couldn't even keep him alive if he was tethered to me and standing in a damage reduction ring. I came back after I got some purple gear, and now sometimes he lives. Although sometimes he still dies regardless. But I now I have a decent chance of surviving multiple waves so long as the bone goliaths aren't summoned until help arrives. And I couldn't do that without purple gear. I was also able to get him to tank the Overfiend in it on Vet.

As a templar, 1 second longer is all I need him to live. It's the difference between him getting one shot and me having to do it without him. It's not much, but those moments do make a difference.

TaSheen

I guess I'm one of those "casuals". I play for hours every day, and the hardest content I ever do is delves - plus now I'm jumping in on vents and the mudcrab boss to get the last two hunks of Oakensoul. I die a couple of times on each vent, though not to the crab (because so far I'm not able to dish enough damage with all the rest of the mob around to even get loot, he's dead so fast). I occasionally die to a delve boss because I can't get past massive ping to make heals work, and the bear doesn't tank as well as my pets did in WoW - nowhere close AAMOF.

I mess with housing and cosmetics, I sub three accounts on the annual plan, and I buy more crowns throughout the year. I'm not very interested in harder overland; if they make it optional, even with better rewards, that's fine, I won't mess with it anyway. Overland is where I don't expect to have to kill my way from node to node. In game, it's my walk in the park, and I like it that way, and I like quest bosses easy enough that I don't die to them a dozen times.

Parasaurolophus

TaSheen wrote: »

I guess I'm one of those "casuals". I play for hours every day, and the hardest content I ever do is delves - plus now I'm jumping in on vents and the mudcrab boss to get the last two hunks of Oakensoul. I die a couple of times on each vent, though not to the crab (because so far I'm not able to dish enough damage with all the rest of the mob around to even get loot, he's dead so fast). I occasionally die to a delve boss because I can't get past massive ping to make heals work, and the bear doesn't tank as well as my pets did in WoW - nowhere close AAMOF.

I mess with housing and cosmetics, I sub three accounts on the annual plan, and I buy more crowns throughout the year. I'm not very interested in harder overland; if they make it optional, even with better rewards, that's fine, I won't mess with it anyway. Overland is where I don't expect to have to kill my way from node to node. In game, it's my walk in the park, and I like it that way, and I like quest bosses easy enough that I don't die to them a dozen times.

May I ask what platform you play on? Why don't you ask one of your friends or guildmates to craft or buy powerful proc sets for you? At the very least, you can get an oaken soul ring.

TaSheen

PC NA and EU. I don't do guilds, and while I had a couple of RL friends some while back who played they were on XBox. As for "powerful" stuff, I'm working on Oakensoul as I stated in my first paragraph. I'm not interested in "graduating" to hard content. I like the game the way it is, and I'm perfectly happy being a "many hours a day" casual.

The game as it stands is a perfect fit for me, considering crap internet and crap reflexes. I'm fine with anything optional for you who want harder overland, I just don't have any interest in it.

Ermiq

TaSheen wrote: »

I occasionally die to a delve boss because I can't get past massive ping to make heals work, and the bear doesn't tank as well as my pets did in WoW - nowhere close AAMOF.

A fellow warden mainer advice:
use the Living Vines, and keep them on you all the time. Don't use them as burst heal, instead use them right before the fight and recast them as soon as they expired. It will give you a great effective health pool, because you're getting healed automatically when you take damage. With decent stats it even might be enough to overheal basic attacks of the mobs in overland, so you basically don't take damage at all. With the Living Trellis morph you also get healed for a decent amount of health when the effect expires, so in case of a lag spike you'll have some health already restored before the lag ends and the server lets you recast the skill.
The Healing Seeds (Budding Seeds morph) is also a good thing to have always under you feet. You never know when you get a dangerous amount of damage, and the Seeds will be there to save you. Again, not as burst situational heal, but as an insurance and pre-heal.

AlexanderDeLarge

CP5 wrote: »

The biggest issue here is ZOS, and their insistence on remaining silent as much as possible. From my last post on this topic until now, I stopped following the discussion entirely, and during that time 5 or so post from ZOS were made, and each were moderation. This goes back to that interview Rich had that was shared on this thread, not by a member of ZOS but by a user, and one of those questions was about overland content, and in it Rich gave an identical answer as he had done on stream back in December.

This is what brought me back actually. I saw that interview and was frankly disgusted with the response after 100+ pages of discussion with the overwhelming majority of the discussion leaning one particular way both within and outside these forums. As always I need to highlight that it's such a disingenuous argument to suggest that Cadwell Silver/Gold or anything prior to One Tamriel and the resulting near-decade of power creep is being used to justify the lack of a solution now.

This thread was up for five and a half months prior to that interview. 100 pages exactly and almost 3000 posts.
https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/ (April 14th 2022)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7569586/#Comment_7569586 (Post #2983 on page 100, April 14th 2022)

WCC:The final question is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I love the questing in The Elder Scrolls Online and I've often compared it even to single player RPGs for its quality, but there is a downside that lots of players have been discussing on Reddit and other forums. That's the difficulty level of questing, story, and Overland content; it's just too low even if you are not fully decked in Trial gear. So my question is, did you consider adding an optional Veteran-like mode for those who'd like to play, for example, the storylines or even Overland content with a greater level of challenge?

RL:That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

WCC:I did see that there is a pinned Overland content topic on the official forums where you are gathering feedback, right?

RL:Yeah. It comes up pretty often. It is definitely a hot topic right now.

WCC:Okay. Well, I do hope there will eventually be an optional harder difficulty level for those who'd like that kind of challenge even while questing.

RL:Noted!

WCC:Thank you for your time.

spartaxoxo

Caldwell Silver and Gold being used as am example by the devs makes sense. They have cultivated a casual audience, beginning with the elimination of that mode. It's not unreasonable for a game dev that has marketed towards a particular group and catered to a particular customer base to think their customers would continue to want what they are selling, when they keep buying it. People who played Demon Souls still wanted more Demon Souls when they played Elden Ring. If it hadn't been hard, they would have been upset. No reason to believe the ESO playerbase is any different and that most users who continue to avoid anything difficult would want to use these options.

I mean, there's constant discussions from people who want to remove dlc dungeons from the normal RND queue because they're too hard and long. ESO has one of the most casual playerbases I've ever encountered. And the gap between them and skilled players powerwise is jaw dropping.


All that being said, they have continued to cultivate an audience of people who enjoy difficult content too. So there's not a good reason to make it boring by not presenting us some kind of difficulty option. There should obviously be a difficulty option. Caldwell's is only a good reason why it shouldn't be mandatory. Not a good reason as to why no option should exist.