Overland Content Feedback Thread

spartaxoxo

cptscotty wrote: »

It definitely feels like a bug. .

Feelings =/= truth.

It is an intentional design decision that the devs have spoken about multiple times. It is not a bug. That's a fact. How someone thinks a game ought to be designed has no bearing on the reality of how the game was actually designed. It was designed to be beaten by tutorial level characters. That means level 1, no gear, and not even necessarily a weapon. It's tutorial content.

This is the appropriate place for feedback, not the bug reports.

cptscotty

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

It definitely feels like a bug. .

Feelings =/= truth.

It is an intentional design decision that the devs have spoken about multiple times. It is not a bug. That's a fact.

Uh huh...please show where ZOS spoke on the fact that it doesnt matter what gear you wear; that the outcome is the same and thus making gear irrelevant. Show where ZOS defends the ability to take off all your gear and the fights having the same outcome because the scaling is the exact same no matter your setup. We both know they didnt speak to that. Its a bug.

spartaxoxo

cptscotty wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

It definitely feels like a bug. .

Feelings =/= truth.

It is an intentional design decision that the devs have spoken about multiple times. It is not a bug. That's a fact.

Uh huh...please show where ZOS spoke on the fact that it doesnt matter what gear you wear; that the outcome is the same and thus making gear irrelevant. Show where ZOS defends the ability to take off all your gear and the fights having the same outcome because the scaling is the exact same no matter your setup. We both know they didnt speak to that. Its a bug.

Ease is subjective. They stated that it was designed to be completed by even brand new players. A brand new player doesn't have CP, coins, etc. They may not even have a weapon, if they decide to try to fight unarmed because they came over from Skyrim. It's not a bug. Period. It's been this way since One Tamriel.

spartaxoxo

You can't make up your own ideas about what Overland is supposed to be like and then claim it's a bug if the developer hasn't read your mind and specifically addressed your thoughts.

They said that it's designed for new players to be able to jump right in on several occasions. A new player may have no gear, no coins, no weapons, no CP, etc.

They've been saying new players can go anywhere in the game world for years.

They've also been saying people can play how they want for years .Everyone has the freedom to explore and experience the story.

As far back as when they were hyping Morrowind.

“I think the biggest take away – for either the new or existing player – is that there is something in Morrowind for everyone, Lambert told Express Online.

“As a new player, you’ll find a new tutorial, a new class and, because the game is not level restricted, you have the freedom to explore the game as you wish

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/813047/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Morrowind-Rich-Lambert-PS4-Xbox-PC-release

They called One Tamriel the best thing they've ever done back during Blackwood.

"We ended up settling on something that would be called “One Tamriel,” which involved removing all the barriers to exploration," Lambert said. "The arbitrary level gates that prevented players from exploring, the alliance-specific story paths, level barriers to grouping with your friends… all of these we removed to open the world up and give the players the freedom to explore the world at their own pace, and in their own way. It took us almost two years to do, but now that it's done it was probably the single best thing we did to the game."

We also made the game Buy-to-play, so you could play it without a required subscription, and finally – in 2016 – we added One Tamriel, that removed leveling as a barrier to player grouping and exploration. All of these were important, but with One Tamriel, the game really took off.

https://www.thegamer.com/eso-dev-one-tamriel-best-thing-we-did/

They actually feel that a world that is easy to explore in any gameplay style you want is essential to the identity of Elder Scrolls.

GI: You said that it didn't feel like the Elder Scrolls game fans were hoping for. From your perspective, what was it about ESO that wasn't coming across as an Elder Scrolls title?

RL: I think the biggest thing is we didn't have an identity; we didn't really know the game we wanted to be when we first launched because we were so focused on trying to please everybody and be in the middle. And so we didn't necessarily commit to the game, and that was one of the things we decided early on, after we launched, that we needed to decide what Elder Scrolls means. It means there are X [amount of things needed] to write great storytelling. It means the freedom to explore, to play the way you want to play. It's easy to kind of pick up and put down. Those are all the things that [factored] into a lot of the decisions we made at that time.

They think this way because they want new players and long time Elder Scrolls Fans to be able to play Overland however they want, and to always be able to jump into the latest expansion.

Under the new levelless system, players can jump into any part of Elder Scrolls Online and play which content strikes your fancy. If you want to start on Morrowind, you can. If you want to jump back to the beginning, that works too. This means new players have a lot of choices, and never have to worry about not being able to play with friends

And later in same interview

What we're trying to avoid there is the gen one MMO problem. The cool new content launches, and new players have to play through 18 years of old content. We definitely wanted to avoid that. If they're seeing marketing images about dragons, we want them to play Elsweyr," says Firor.

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/elder-scrolls-online-developers-elsweyr-player-milestones-and-the-season-of-the-dragon

There are not many objective facts in this discussion, because a lot of it is hidden from us. But that Overland is explicitly designed to be played ANY way you want and to be so easy that brand new players can jump in literally anywhere is one of them.

This design option is inherently going to be mean that high end players aren't going to be challenged. If everything is easy enough for a level 1 to do with literally nothing, it cannot pose a challenge to someone who is top tier. It's why so many of us want options.

summ0004

Wonder how many people are not buying chapters and content due to the lack of difficulty on overland?

I certainly havent purchased anything for quite a while because of it as it works out as poor value for money, and its a shame as i really wanted to play through various quest lines and chapters but the lack of difficulty is keeping me away from the game currently.

Brightuatha

I sometimes like easier combats. I am a solo player ( like many) most often, and not all mobs are as easy as others.

Aliyavana

we are not going to get an overland optional difficulty. takes resources that they would rather spend doing on something else. that said, i would love for quest bosses not to die in 2 hits. optional difficulty would fix that.

Malthorne

At this point, the only way we will ever get an optional veteran difficulty for overland is if ZOS can find a way to monetize it.

Hanoan

Plenty of people do not buy DLCs due to boring questing (logic comes from Dark Souls/Elden Ring sales). If optional veteran difficulty is implemented then people will pay for it by buying DLCs. ZOS can also sell some boosters that can ease some routines (I did not play for a while and not sure if they are not selling them yet). Or they can make a separate subscription based server with higher difficulty, similar to LOTRo

Amethyst_Unearthed

Oh man.... i cant even start to bring myself to read 128 pages of this.... tho it does make me feel guilty asking anything in addition to the 128 pages of previous questions, answers and suggestions etc. XD

any who.....

I'm wondering if TESO has any possible way or plans/ideas for the future for players to submit not just feedback but suggestions from small to big additions to current content, changes, fixes etc....

I think TESO could nothing but benefit from it because from talking about the Forum in game and some groups on ToxicBook i notice that VERY VERY few actually know about it, how to join ect... so most resort to ToxicBook for questions, concerns, info ect... we all know how that ends 98%the time LOL, regardless advertising the forum for more members use would be great, even possibly an app? lol idk id pay like 4$ for it ONE TIME.... unless i get free cuz my ESO plus lol

But to stay on original topic, im wondering if an in game option to submit suggestions or ideas could be added....so long as it was monitored and hopefully POSSIBLY be replied to with out a generic style copy paste reply... so many people out in game have so many GREAT ideas but outside here there is no real way to get them to TESO employees so they could be used or at the least considered?

just a thought. As for overland feedback, id like a more versatile list of types of feedback to pick from when submitting feedback in game, i normally just back out and choose not to because i just feel suggestions given don't fit what i need to say so i feel my time will be wasted ect.....

Franchise408

summ0004 wrote: »

Wonder how many people are not buying chapters and content due to the lack of difficulty on overland?

I certainly havent purchased anything for quite a while because of it as it works out as poor value for money, and its a shame as i really wanted to play through various quest lines and chapters but the lack of difficulty is keeping me away from the game currently.

Mark me down as one.

I refuse to purchase High Isle and spend $40 on what will amount to nothing more than a single trial.

spartaxoxo

The card game is a lot of fun. I haven't even touched High Isle's overland yet, apart from unlocking Isobel, and I already feel I got a good value. But I think you'd have to enjoy card games in order for this to be a good buy.

Elsonso

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spartaxoxo wrote: »

The card game is a lot of fun. I haven't even touched High Isle's overland yet, apart from unlocking Isobel, and I already feel I got a good value. But I think you'd have to enjoy card games in order for this to be a good buy.

Well, if you did the Deadlands DLC, you are in for a treat. This time around, ZOS absolutely nailed the feel of the Deadlands realm. You just have to spend time in the Firepot delve. The atmosphere in that delve is what I expected Deadlands to feel like.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

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spartaxoxo wrote: »

The card game is a lot of fun. I haven't even touched High Isle's overland yet, apart from unlocking Isobel, and I already feel I got a good value. But I think you'd have to enjoy card games in order for this to be a good buy.

Well, if you did the Deadlands DLC, you are in for a treat. This time around, ZOS absolutely nailed the feel of the Deadlands realm. You just have to spend time in the Firepot delve. The atmosphere in that delve is what I expected Deadlands to feel like.

Ohhh interesting. I did do the Deadlands DLC, on an alt I've since abandoned because frost wardens feel like garbage compared to the character I am used to using. So I've settled on a main and am slowly taking her through DLC zones in chronological order. I'm on Markarth at the moment. Something to look forward to!

martinhpb16_ESO

summ0004 wrote: »

Wonder how many people are not buying chapters and content due to the lack of difficulty on overland?

I certainly havent purchased anything for quite a while because of it as it works out as poor value for money, and its a shame as i really wanted to play through various quest lines and chapters but the lack of difficulty is keeping me away from the game currently.

Me too. There is no point buying any new chapters anymore from my perspective.

Also people who say that overland is for new players and is a tutorial - what forever? Every new addition is a tutorial and for new starters? That makes no sense - its just an ever expanding tutorial with nothing for people who want post tutorial exploration content. That's ridiculous.

spartaxoxo

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

Wonder how many people are not buying chapters and content due to the lack of difficulty on overland?

I certainly havent purchased anything for quite a while because of it as it works out as poor value for money, and its a shame as i really wanted to play through various quest lines and chapters but the lack of difficulty is keeping me away from the game currently.

Me too. There is no point buying any new chapters anymore from my perspective.

Also people who say that overland is for new players and is a tutorial - what forever? Every new addition is a tutorial and for new starters? That makes no sense - its just an ever expanding tutorial with nothing for people who want post tutorial exploration content. That's ridiculous.

Yup. Forever. They always want new players to immediately be able to jump into whatever the new content is for the game. And for people who quit long ago to have an easy time returning. I think it makes a lot of sense and is one of the game's strengths. What I don't think makes a lot of sense is trapping your long-time players into the tutorial with no way to modify the difficulty. Like, it's tutorial content. Why would you advertise to people who like challenges with stuff like the Arena and Trials and then force us into only tutorial-level content for the story? THAT'S what grinds my gears.

Prof_Bawbag

Ngl, i often wonder where all these "vets" were during the barren Craglorn years. Other than the main hub ( Folk waiting to grp for trials) and some farmers, the place was deserted. I asked numerous times if i could get a hand with some questing. No one ever offered. I was far from the only person either. These vet players were too busy spamming AoE's in mournhold etc to give a damn. They did the content, and that's all that mattered.

As the game is now, the more difficult overland parts [Harrowstorms etc] are also deserted. So nothing leads me to believe anything has changed.

I don't believe for a second making overland a lot more difficult would benefit the game long term. I think all that would happen is we'd go back to one large barren wasteland. Void of people questing and chat being spammed by those few asking for a helping hand to clear a quest area.

Herteby

Tested how long it takes for an "Elite enemy", the kind that serve as bosses in most solo quests, to actually kill me if I just stand there.
(fairly new player, CP172, heavy armor, 1 point in Health, oh and remember I could have a companion as well)

https://youtu.be/_f7NA2sbIJo

The developers who make all the combat encounters can't possibly be happy with the state of this. They must've spent thousands of hours making all the special abilities for bosses and regular enemies, only for it to be rendered pointless due to the balancing.

What we need is difficulty options for overland content. Just as there is Normal/Veteran/Hard Mode for dungeons. Just simple modifiers to damage taken and dealt would make a huge improvement.

Belyar

Man, that's just sad. When a zone builds up an enemy as a massive threat no one could deal with then you come and kill them with 3 charged attacks while not taking any damage in return.

Anyone knows what's the devs stance on this issue? Have they ever publicly addressed it/ are they planning to? Overland content is in a dire need of tuning, or at least giving the players the option to CHOOSE the difficulty they want like other Elder Scrolls titles.

CP5

Thank you for recording that Herteby, like I've mentioned dozens of times before, many enemies waste their own time on pointless fluff attacks, so much so that health regen alone can counter most of their damage. Thankfully he didn't have any attacks that take 10s to charge up, else you would have been in real trouble fitting the video on your hard drive.

Herteby

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I don't believe for a second making overland a lot more difficult would benefit the game long term.

The reason why I started playing ESO is that I'm a big Elder Scrolls fan, and enjoy open world questing etc. I doubt I'm alone in this. The regular games actually have challenging enemies though, and multiple difficulty levels. ESO already has a pretty good combat system, if they could just make it similarily challenging to Skyrim I think more people would find it fun.

CP5 wrote: »

many enemies waste their own time on pointless fluff attacks

I think the animation time by itself is fine, if they dealt an appropriate amount of damage. Slow attacks that are easy to dodge should have a higher DPS than fast attacks. The slowest attacks could maybe take off slightly over 50% of the health on a light armor user, so that it's never a one hit kill but you'll have to fall back and heal.

spartaxoxo

Belyar wrote: »

Anyone knows what's the devs stance on this issue? .

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

That's their latest statement. Long story short, they aren't changing anything.

Herteby

I think a good metric for game balancing is "player deaths per hour". Very punishing games like the Souls series might aim for a very high number, while more "casual" games like the Elder Scrolls series might aim at 2-4. This applies to MMO dungeons as well btw. Dying every 15-30 minutes is not generally considered "frustrating". But the current balance of ESO overworld questing is "zero deaths per hour". If you never die, what's the feedback for trying to play better?

TaSheen

My characters die all the time. Depending on my ping, can be up to every time I'm in combat. Nope, I do not find overland easy, no matter how long I've played. My reflexes aren't great any more, my ping is generally in the range between 800 and 999+ so the combat isn't fun.

Herteby

TaSheen wrote: »

My characters die all the time. Depending on my ping, can be up to every time I'm in combat. Nope, I do not find overland easy, no matter how long I've played. My reflexes aren't great any more, my ping is generally in the range between 800 and 999+ so the combat isn't fun.

That just shows the need for difficulty options I think.

TaSheen

I think difficulty options would be perfect, but I'm not a programmer, and I don't have any idea if the devs think it's possible or not.

Herteby

I actually I'm a programmer. I would say that to implement the basic "global damage adjustments" I'm suggesting would take a single programmer less than a week. Then add UI support and design meetings etc and it might take a month, but not working full-time on it.

Elsonso

TaSheen wrote: »

I think difficulty options would be perfect, but I'm not a programmer, and I don't have any idea if the devs think it's possible or not.

Some programming required, per Lambert. That is probably the easy part, though. Setting it up and making it work is probably the harder part.

It is definitely going to be easier, cheaper, and more reliable to stay the path and have one difficulty for everyone. This is likely why they are doing that, for now.

Belyar

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

Anyone knows what's the devs stance on this issue? .

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

That's their latest statement. Long story short, they aren't changing anything.

That's depressing to say the least. I'm fairly certain they're misunderstanding something about the data, otherwise there is NO WAY millions of people would find the current difficulty too hard. Overwhelming? Sure. Scary even, because there are so many things to do you don't even know what to start with, but to be hard? That's just nonsensical and factually incorrect no matter how you look at it.

spartaxoxo

Belyar wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

Anyone knows what's the devs stance on this issue? .

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

That's their latest statement. Long story short, they aren't changing anything.

That's depressing to say the least. I'm fairly certain they're misunderstanding something about the data, otherwise there is NO WAY millions of people would find the current difficulty too hard. Overwhelming? Sure. Scary even, because there are so many things to do you don't even know what to start with, but to be hard? That's just nonsensical and factually incorrect no matter how you look at it.

Difficulty is subjective. Just because you find it easy doesn't mean everyone does. If plenty of people keep dying or take a while to kill stuff, then they would likely consider it challenging enough to be engaging.

I don't think that means they should nothing, but they do have to be careful because they have one of the most casual audiences in gaming imo.