Real stamwhip
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »flamelash is amazing on stamdk. i love it. i will use it forever.ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »In case anyone is yet to try it. For PVE this change is amazing for stam DK.. the Magicka costing spammable allows you to run whatever food you want with no Magicka or stamina issues. I imagine this could be a bit different for PVP but not if you run some Magicka recov.
I think my concerns here is what is it like running in solo (vMA and vVH), content where you don't have all the buffs to mag sustain and you need skills like volatile armor and igneous weapons? Does the skill still hold up there?
you run this food :
You can, it just won't be efficient, and it will not sustain the other abilities you use, and agian it you use even 4 whip spams that can take you 30% resources.
Edit: as great as the skill hits I don't see it working well in real content. It really is not an accurate test on the dummy.
Did you look at the regen / drain?
What content do you think this won't work in?
Sustain isn't even close to a problem. If you want to make claims that it's not sustainable i suggest you copy the build and prove it.
Honestly this is the most interesting and fun build I've seen in a long time.
I hope ZoS gives this treatment to more classes.
The raid dummy provides a larger amount of sustain buffs that would otherwise not be present in solo content or PvP. You would be lucky to get even half of those buffs in a 4 man group. I can't speak for others, but what I want to see is how well one could sustain whip in VVH or VMA. I suppose if you could sustain it on the 6m dummy it would be a good indicator, but then you would still otherwise need to run something like harden armor or soul trap, which would still hit your mag reserves.
I thought i'd do a 6mil dummy just for fun.
I can't think of any other test that anyone can realistically come up with to prove this isn't viable in real content.
You just can't transfer stuff from a PvE parse to PvP it just doesn't work because PvE is linear while PvP is much more dynamic.
at no point have i made any claims about pvp, in fact i've stated several times i'm only discussing this in a PvE context, and that in every pve context i can think of this build is very viable.
I don't understand why you keep quoting me with a reply about pvp.
I'm not testing pvp, it's not my wheel house.2 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »flamelash is amazing on stamdk. i love it. i will use it forever.ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »In case anyone is yet to try it. For PVE this change is amazing for stam DK.. the Magicka costing spammable allows you to run whatever food you want with no Magicka or stamina issues. I imagine this could be a bit different for PVP but not if you run some Magicka recov.
I think my concerns here is what is it like running in solo (vMA and vVH), content where you don't have all the buffs to mag sustain and you need skills like volatile armor and igneous weapons? Does the skill still hold up there?
you run this food :
You can, it just won't be efficient, and it will not sustain the other abilities you use, and agian it you use even 4 whip spams that can take you 30% resources.
Edit: as great as the skill hits I don't see it working well in real content. It really is not an accurate test on the dummy.
Did you look at the regen / drain?
What content do you think this won't work in?
Sustain isn't even close to a problem. If you want to make claims that it's not sustainable i suggest you copy the build and prove it.
Honestly this is the most interesting and fun build I've seen in a long time.
I hope ZoS gives this treatment to more classes.
The raid dummy provides a larger amount of sustain buffs that would otherwise not be present in solo content or PvP. You would be lucky to get even half of those buffs in a 4 man group. I can't speak for others, but what I want to see is how well one could sustain whip in VVH or VMA. I suppose if you could sustain it on the 6m dummy it would be a good indicator, but then you would still otherwise need to run something like harden armor or soul trap, which would still hit your mag reserves.
I thought i'd do a 6mil dummy just for fun.
I can't think of any other test that anyone can realistically come up with to prove this isn't viable in real content.
You just can't transfer stuff from a PvE parse to PvP it just doesn't work because PvE is linear while PvP is much more dynamic.
at no point have i made any claims about pvp, in fact i've stated several times i'm only discussing this in a PvE context, and that in every pve context i can think of this build is very viable.
I don't understand why you keep quoting me with a reply about pvp.
I'm not testing pvp, it's not my wheel house.
Well you said real content no?2 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭@Tannus15
Thanks for testing, maybe when I get my hands on it it will work as well.1 -
Wellsley✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588969/pvp-build-for-a-stamdk-using-whip#latest
To anyone who is against a true stamwhip.
I created this topic to give you a chance to prove that a real stamwhip is useless but you weren't there. Weird.0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭I won't give up and I'm not the only one.
Give us a real stamwhip or with the highest resource, "May this finally end the fiery and age-old debate over getting a Stamina Whip."3 -
Every other classes have no issue with stam morph, what's your point for not give stam morph to stam dk? LOL
Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it? NO.
Just make it cost highest offensive stats or stam like every other base classes got stam morph. This is the answer.
Force dk to use mag whip as spammable is not build diversity it's called chopped off your hand and saying you're special.3 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »Every other classes have no issue with stam morph, what's your point for not give stam morph to stam dk? LOL
Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it? NO.
Just make it cost highest offensive stats or stam like every other base classes got stam morph. This is the answer.
Force dk to use mag whip as spammable is not build diversity it's called chopped off your hand and saying you're special.
Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Every other classes have no issue with stam morph
thats untrue like 90% of templer skills dont have a stam morph - most of sorc skills dont have a stam morph either
other stam classes dont have a class spammable either its not like dk is the only one - are all other classes like sorc warden and necro useless cause of that ? no (and if u wanna say they have a spammable - it is as useful as stone giant)Edited by KhajiitLivesMatter on October 18, 2021 12:28AM0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?1 -
Wellsley✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Every other classes have no issue with stam morph
thats untrue like 90% of templer skills dont have a stam morph - most of sorc skills dont have a stam morph either
other stam classes dont have a class spammable either its not like dk is the only one - are all other classes like sorc warden and necro useless cause of that ? no (and if u wanna say they have a spammable - it is as useful as stone giant)
The other classes have spammable, and I agree they deserve a buff.
0 -
finehair✭✭✭✭Other classes have stam spammable, ones that do not have op delayed bursts so they don't need stam spammable.
Nightblade- surprise attack
Templar-jabs
Sorc-crystal weapon as clanky as it is, is a viable spam
Necro- I don't count scythe and skull as spammable since they are quite bad, but blighted blastbones is a good delayed burst
Warden-bugs with +1 free cast, again I won't count the stam bird for spammable
If you think poop rock is a good stam spammable for PvP you are just wrong. The only thing that's viable with it is the first aoe hit. You can stack some good aoe burst damage with the initial cast of it, other than that it is a poop rock3 -
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.2 -
Wellsley✭✭✭JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
4 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.3 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.3 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.1 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.
I'm not gonna bother posting cmx of my duels on PTS when the actual problem can be explained without them.
Additionally the actual PvP gameplay can't be tested on pts because there's just no population in Cyro.
You said that you're not interested in PvP and therefore there is no reason to further explain trivial stuff that everyone who has played PvP knows about.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.
I'm not gonna bother posting cmx of my duels on PTS when the actual problem can be explained without them.
Additionally the actual PvP gameplay can't be tested on pts because there's just no population in Cyro.
You said that you're not interested in PvP and therefore there is no reason to further explain trivial stuff that everyone who has played PvP knows about.
So you have the data, but you're not sharing it as proof because it's way more persuasive to just tell people it's bad and they should just trust you on this.
Well, I'm convinced...3 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.
100% agree my main character I like playing is stam dk. The common thing is the mag skills dks gotta slot to compete in pvp yet no one wants to attempt to shift their builds to drop a skill here or there0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »VarisVaris wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Does this whip so powerful that it must cost magika to prevent stam dk build to get full use of it?
yes dk was always strong stam whip is a buff anyway
Arguments ? Dk is strong but certainly not top tier. Warden and necro surpasses him by far. Why a real stamwhip would be a buff ? It won't replace dizziying and even if it were true so what ?
Even if there's stam whip it won't be powerful than dizzy swing per cast due to new damage standard and what's wrong with give a class basic stam spam function like other classes will suddenly be op than other classes?
Let's just be honest that dk need this stam spam like every other classes and devs should buff other class spam if it's under perform and this shouldn't be reason why dk won't get a stam spam.
Please don't reverse the effect as the cause.
True. With or without a stamwhip, dizziying will remain the most popular, powerful, and annoying stam spammable.
Currently, I still haven't heard a real reason to refuse us a real stamwhip. Never.
At this point, the only excuse that makes sense is spite.
What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
it's interesting for about 5 minutes, even less in PvP because you have enough magdumps already.
the mag cost only serves as a new annoyance for people who always wanted a true stamwhip, no poop fist and no hybrid whip just a stamwhip without any drawbacks.
And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.
I'm not gonna bother posting cmx of my duels on PTS when the actual problem can be explained without them.
Additionally the actual PvP gameplay can't be tested on pts because there's just no population in Cyro.
You said that you're not interested in PvP and therefore there is no reason to further explain trivial stuff that everyone who has played PvP knows about.
So you have the data, but you're not sharing it as proof because it's way more persuasive to just tell people it's bad and they should just trust you on this.
Well, I'm convinced...
Don’t get me wrong I’d love for an actual stamina morph for whip but for time being I’ll settle for what I’m getting.1 -
Wellsley✭✭✭What is wrong with you people? They don't have to justify their balance choices to anyone, and they are definitely not making those choices out of spite.
I disagree, especially when the players have been asking for a real stamwhip for several years. In addition, they already justify some of their choices.This is a cool and interesting change to the stamdk which makes for some truly unique builds. It allows stamdk to take advantage of their sustain passives combustion and battleroar and easy access to the burning dot. this way dk loses literally nothing but gains the option of both morphs for stam In addition, they already justify some of their choices.builds. It's literally the best of both worlds. Magdk's don't lose a morph and stamdk's get 2 spammables instead of just one.
Interesting change ? Yeah, especially in pve but in pvp this is not the case. Some have already tested it, Deltia for example, and have not said anything positive. In addition, stamdk does not need two spammables and it would be interesting to remove the giant stone or completely revise the animation.You know what stamwhip would be? Bland. It would just be another boring single target spammable that does nothing interesting or unique and killed a bunch of builds to do it.
We don't know, we don't have any data for that too...
Why would a real stamwhip specifically be bland ?Personally, I find the whip to have good animation and love to use it. Everyone has his opinion.
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Bodycounter✭✭✭✭Just give Lava Whip the "Soul Trap treatment" where the cost, damage and damage type scales off your highest offensive stats.
Magicka class: Lava Whip, costs Magicka, deals flame damage
Stamina class: Poison Whip, costs Stamina, deals poison damage1 -
Wellsley✭✭✭And this is based on what? Got build? Got data?
I dunno about anyone else in these stamdk threads, but I'm getting over this constant crying for stam whip with 0 examples or data to back it up.
Nothing obliges you to participate and I do not agree, we have already given examples and there have already been tests even if they are difficult to find and not very precise.I've posted parses on 21m, 6m, vma. I've messed around with sets and skills and different regen options to see how it actually hangs together and all I've seen from the PvP crowd is "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP".
Yes, it's a mag cost spammable and you can't just swap it with a stam spammable and expect it to work, but so what?
What have you tried?
Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?
You tested in pve it's good, this whip works in pve I agree. I knew it without having tested it and I am not the only one.
It's not as simple as "BUT I WANT STAM WHIIIIP" but you already know that...
"Can you point to anything other than "but i've got other mag skills so i can't afford to use it"?" We have already done this several times.You want stam whip? Do the damn work or stop sniping at the people who actually ARE looking at it properly.
We have already proposed solutions, real solutions.
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Wellsley You're absolutely right, you're not obliged to do anything on the PTS at all. No one is. But if you want to put forward a strong argument that the devs will pay attention to you need some concrete examples.
They have already put time and effort into changing flame whip into what they think is the best solution. I promise you, there were a bunch of meetings discussing DK from as many perspectives as they could think of PvE, PvP, stam, mag, hybrid with a view to not only where things are now, but where they will be in 12 months time, and this is the best solution they could come up with. I promise you, it's not one dude at his desk picking solutions out of a hat.
Just telling them they are wrong will not change their mind. They understand the downside of the proposed solution is going to be the mag cost on a stam build and have decided it's still better this way. Unless you can show them something new, something they overlooked, with proof, it's not going to change.2 -
Bl4ckR3alm93✭✭✭Now I'm actually fine with the DK Whip being magicka but ZoS should change the Helping Hands passive to Ardent flame skills so I can proc the DK passive to get stam bac. After the rejuvenation CP passive nerf, this actually works well now for sustain. I still would like a Poison Stonefist thoughEdited by Bl4ckR3alm93 on October 22, 2021 10:07PM0 -
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ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭I'm on console, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I've heard from people that say whip works well on stamina, I've heard from even more that say it doesn't. I still find it completely counter intuitive to expect a stamina build to rely primarily on a magic ability for its damage. And I question why the actual stamina spammable was not changed in anyway, when it is clear the majority of the community doesn't like it.0
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CageKnight✭✭Well, looks like we missed it this time ladies and gentlemen. Maybe next patch?
Makes me wonder why, even after all these years, ZOS is just so against giving us a Stam whip? would it really be that hard? Just replace Molten Whip and take Noxious Breath/Venomous Claw and mash 'em together, bam! People are happy!
And if you really want to show the community that you "love" DK as you said in the combat preview, turn poop rock into an actually useful skill. A burst skill why not, akin to Blastbones and Scorch. and fix Dragon Blood so it's not the worst class heal skill in the game.0
