Real stamwhip

Red_Feather

I like making hybrid healers and it'll be cool for that.

YoshinJaa

Can confirm whip on PTS is mag costing with offensive scaling like Soul Trap.

Extinct_Solo_Player

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

Urzigurumash

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

Wellsley

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

With some adjustments maybe but against good players on live servers (pc eu for exemple), not testing on pts, i don't know 🤔

stefj68

that magicka cost stamwhip is the only things making me sustain right now with the lost of 25% cost reduction on poison abilities

Wellsley

Maybe in a 1v1 situation but i don't know against skilled players. Difficult to say for the moment only on the pts...

CleymenZero

stefj68 wrote: »

that magicka cost stamwhip is the only things making me sustain right now with the lost of 25% cost reduction on poison abilities

Try using is on backbar and casting it as it is about to expire. That way you save 1 stam cost GCD and still hit hard. That was with Molten Whip and Zaan as monster set. Sustain remains very bad but I can make it through a whole dummy.





This is the best I could do with Flame Lash as a spammable.

TKOS7

So I've been trying out using molten whip only once per rotation - when its fully charged up. Seems to be working well and gives you a nice recovery boost having that and FOO cost magicka.

Also - interesting theorycraft build using molten whip as an interchangable spammable to keep your magicka pool low enough to keep Bahsei's Mania up at 10-15%. I managed to parse the same as Rele/Kinras using Bahsei/Kinras by dynamically using Whip/SG as spammables to try and keep magicka below ~20%:

Extinct_Solo_Player

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

I mean i shouldn't be forced to play a hybrid just to be able to use lash as a spammable like really? In a pvp scenario my mag pool is already used up by fragmented shield, cauterize, volatile armor. In my opinion it would be better to add highest resource scaling to the skill cost that way no one really loses out on how they want to play.

stefj68

it still harder for me to sustain on stamdk with bow build. (without using charged traits and crown poisons)
but i really like all the changes for magdk
but its day 1 on pts

Urzigurumash

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

I mean i shouldn't be forced to play a hybrid just to be able to use lash as a spammable like really? In a pvp scenario my mag pool is already used up by fragmented shield, cauterize, volatile armor. In my opinion it would be better to add highest resource scaling to the skill cost that way no one really loses out on how they want to play.

Says who though? We came from hybrid, to hybrid we return. You already are a hybrid, you're running a spell-damage scaled DoT there. Since it no longer decloaks there really isn't any reason to run it over Hardened besides damage, or proccing Azureblight, etc., right? There might be code issues with doing what you've requested in short order - and there are niche advantages to being able to use your off-resource to deal instant damage.

You can't play however you want and use whatever skills you want, if you have to build more into Mag Regen, if you have to drop Vamp, or throw on more Heavy for more Constitution, or throw on an Indeko rune, etc., etc., then so be it.

How many classes have a weapon damage scaled, single-target melee instant spammable? On live, one. On PTS, two.

I'm not saying I know this will be great, of course it would probably be simpler if it cost Stam, but, have you used Pelinal's+Whip? Have you DK Tanked in PvE? I'm not the least disturbed by this skill costing Mag without having actually tested it - rather I think it might, possibly, give us some unique advantages over Warden and Necro.

xDeusEJRx

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

I mean i shouldn't be forced to play a hybrid just to be able to use lash as a spammable like really? In a pvp scenario my mag pool is already used up by fragmented shield, cauterize, volatile armor. In my opinion it would be better to add highest resource scaling to the skill cost that way no one really loses out on how they want to play.

Says who though? We came from hybrid, to hybrid we return. You already are a hybrid, you're running a spell-damage scaled DoT there. Since it no longer decloaks there really isn't any reason to run it over Hardened besides damage, or proccing Azureblight, etc., right? There might be code issues with doing what you've requested in short order - and there are niche advantages to being able to use your off-resource to deal instant damage.

You can't play however you want and use whatever skills you want, if you have to build more into Mag Regen, if you have to drop Vamp, or throw on more Heavy for more Constitution, or throw on an Indeko rune, etc., etc., then so be it.

How many classes have a weapon damage scaled, single-target melee instant spammable? On live, one. On PTS, two.

I'm not looking this gifthorse in the mouth until I have the chance to really see whether the length of its tooth matters.

Would that really be a Stam DK though? We're trying to play stam identity, not a hybrid build. They're hybridizing the offensive stats this patch, crit, penetration and WD/SD. But not hybridizing max mag and stam. Which means we have to BUILD for MAG as a STAM build. It leads us towards a hybrid playstyle which we aren't trying to do. I wanna play Stam DK. Hybrids can be fun sure, but I already have a hybrid DK. I want to be able to play each playstyle, not run a cookie cutter hybrid. Stam DK already too reliant on magicka abilities as is to get most of DK buffs. Don't see the harm in allowing stam to conserve their identity.

On stam DK's lots of people have to run: Volatile armor, cauterize, Race or protective plate, fragmented shield or petrify in order to get minor brutality buff (no one's gonna realistically use stone giant for the buff, it's far too clunky to use. I've tried playing with it, the clunkiness doesn't warrant the minor brutality). There are some people who also use green dragon's blood as well which is also magic. The class is already far too reliant on magicka to identify as "stamina dragonknight" trying to incorporate a mag spammable onto a stam class that's already dominated by mag abilities just causes stam DK to loses its identity even more than it already is.

Extinct_Solo_Player

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Change is so dumb, why do half baked changes when you can just do the Change properly by scaling the skill cost based on whichever resource is highest.

I don't know, I've always played semi-hybrid and although I've never consistently stuck with Pelinal's+Whip, I always found sustain to be quite good with it. DK might have the best hybrid sustain in the game, to re-iterate.

If this new Whip is only good for the semi-hybrid StamDK, so what?

I mean i shouldn't be forced to play a hybrid just to be able to use lash as a spammable like really? In a pvp scenario my mag pool is already used up by fragmented shield, cauterize, volatile armor. In my opinion it would be better to add highest resource scaling to the skill cost that way no one really loses out on how they want to play.

Says who though? We came from hybrid, to hybrid we return. You already are a hybrid, you're running a spell-damage scaled DoT there. Since it no longer decloaks there really isn't any reason to run it over Hardened besides damage, or proccing Azureblight, etc., right? There might be code issues with doing what you've requested in short order - and there are niche advantages to being able to use your off-resource to deal instant damage.

Ah yes, I'm a "hybrid" because the skill i'm using for the armor buff has a weak mag dot (doesn't really matter which morph is used on stam as their secondary effects are pretty subpar anyways) How would there be issues with code if they can literally make the skill's damage scale from max offensive stats. Even the Altmer sustain passive scales of max resource. by adding the same thing to the skill cost shouldn't be a huge task then..... I don't see the problem with what i proposed it's hardly a huge detriment and overall helps both sides of the spectrum instead of making one good change then forcing you to spec into something else just to be able to use it.

Urzigurumash

Out with the old, in with the new. You can still play a D Swing dependent StamDK if you like. If you'd like to dispense of the limitations which now only bind other classes and embrace the true glory of the Akaviri Martial Tradition:

"Free your mind, and the rest will follow"

Edit: To clarify all my comments here - I don't mean to suggest this definitely should cost Mag and not Stam, my point was - considering the DK might have the very best hybrid sustain - are we absolutely sure this isn't actually better to help give us identity and some unique advantage? Are we sure? My mind is open to the idea without having tested it more. By talking about the already severe Mag costs we have, in a way you're talking about the fact that we already are a Hybrid class.

If your concern is that this doesn't give us enough distinct identity over MagDK? Well no kidding, that was always a consequence of the idea of StamWhip. The concern for this escalated to - 1. give us distinct identity and advantage over Warden and Necro, 2. mechanically replace Heroic Slash after its damage nerf. Both of these things are achieved. Where's the issue with identity?

Wellsley

So firstly a real stamwhip.
Secondly a new color for this real stamwhip, green like venomous claws and noxious breath

👌

Miloscpolski

Wellsley wrote: »

We need a stamwhip with a stamina cost, not just scalling with hightest offensive stats.
Only this would "finally end the fiery and age-old debate over getting a Stamina Whip".

Maybe next week ? 🤔

no stam whip, you have already been given the stamina spam ability at the stam dk, STAM WHIP THIS IS NONSENSE

Miloscpolski

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Nebula_DooM wrote: »

RIP the Poison Whip dream tho

Keep fighting.. Soul Trap changes based on highest offensive stats, maybe not the cost, but the damage type. It's 100% possible, if anything we're closer to that dream :P

the dream of stam whip is complete nonsense

Wellsley

Its not a dream, or the dream has come true (in part for now).

Why did you say that ? Whip animation is so cool compared with stone giant.

Miloscpolski

Wellsley wrote: »

Its not a dream, or the dream has come true (in part for now).

Why did you say that ? Whip animation is so cool compared with stone giant.

you already have 7 sourses of spammble ability for stamdk, whip of magdk is already scaling from primaty dmg, leave alone magdk's whip pls

Wellsley

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

Miloscpolski

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

Wellsley

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Its not a dream, or the dream has come true (in part for now).

Why did you say that ? Whip animation is so cool compared with stone giant.

you already have 7 sourses of spammble ability for stamdk, whip of magdk is already scaling from primaty dmg, leave alone magdk's whip pls

Like the other stam.

auz

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

It's pronounced "poop rock".

Miloscpolski

auz wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

It's pronounced "poop rock".

ok, but name is stone giant by from zos

Wellsley

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

Stone giant is a joke, not many players play with it because this skill is boring and copy pasted from crystal fragment.

BattleAxe

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

Your right dk does have the skill stone giant but it is majorly clunky to use and animation wise it’s player given name is fitting poop fist. We are suppose to be stamina dragon knights not freaking monkeys flinging poo everywhere.

auz

Miloscpolski wrote: »

auz wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Sorcerer have both, magicka crystal weapon and stamina crystal weapons.
Same for nightblade with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
Templar with puncturing strikes and biting jabs.
Warden with cutting dive and screaming cliff racer.
Necromancer with venom skull and ricochet skull.

Why not for dragonknight ?

because DK already has stam spammble hello. Stone giant.

It's pronounced "poop rock".

ok, but name is stone giant by from zos

Zos calling it stone fist doesn't change what it is.

Wellsley

Stone giant only existed because a few years ago the devs didn't want a stamwhip but still wanted to satisfy the players with another spammable.
It did not work except for some players, mostly in pve.

Wellsley

I think it's time to fix this mistake once and for all.