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Pvp build for a stamdk using whip
Wellsley
✭✭✭
Third week and still no real stamwhip, I don't think it changes. Maybe next year, we'll see but I prefer that we think about a viable build in pvp.
Ideas ? Without sacrificing certain characteristics.
Ideas ? Without sacrificing certain characteristics.
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Wellsley✭✭✭Don't talk about pve and real stamwhip, there are other posts for that. Let's focus on a stamina build using flame lash or molten whip.0
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Don't talk about pve and real stamwhip, there are other posts for that. Let's focus on a stamina build using flame lash or molten whip.
Well a simple change will likely be dropping igneous shield as flame lash will have a heal proc attached combined with vigor hot for a decent amount of healing just a starting point also with sustain passive changes dk sustain should be decent enough to sustain using whip and most other skills a dk typically runs in pvp with maybe a need to drop a skill here or there.0 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭Molten whip is right out as we have no real incentive to spam ardent flame abilities like magdk's are forced to using it as a spammable.
Flam Lash would be okay but clunky and would require fast mag dumping. I've thought about using dswing for the off balance and then flame lash spam, but that would require a pretty high magpool. Not to mention that even with the combustion passive buff it still may not be enough to keep up your mag for other skill usage. Plus it would only be possible every 7/22 secs curtesy of off-balance cd. Any immobize possible would have to be from fossilize (mag), talons (mag) or bombard (requires bow). You'd be unlikely to have enough mag to use fossilize or talons so you'r be forced into bombard, which people often dodge out of making whip miss.
Quite honestly there is no viable pvp build possible. Sorry.
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Vizirith✭✭✭✭@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.0 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
This sounds like the worst advice anyone could give.
Dropping Hardened armor not only means that you have to waste a 2pc slot for chudan or another skill slot for skills like unstoppable (and morphs) or balance, you also give up on having 12% more healing received.
Dropping Cauterize means that you give up even more healing stamdk necessarily needs.
Same thing goes for dropping RaT, not only do you lack major expedition now you also have to drop Rally in favor of having a snare removal.
That build is so far off from being viable on way too many levels.6 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can we get a definition for "viable" as it's used here?
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Can we get a definition for "viable" as it's used here?
It's mistake, i meant passable.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPNhFYCiRvw
After looking this build and some math the regen looks good. Replace serpent with atro and artaeum with jester doesn't seem like a big sacrifice.
The first problem is the amount of magicka. It's easy to reach 15-18k, maybe 20k but 25-30k and more dunno.
Second is to be forced to remove certain skills or less play with them. Fragmented shield without resolving vigor for me it's not resolving vigor. Cauterize/flames of oblivion, volatile armor, green dragon blood, fossilize, race against time or mist...
Edited by Wellsley on October 16, 2021 5:46PM0 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
That's not very optimal, dropping RAT only leaves forward momentum and shuffle for access to CC immunity. and Immunity is a NECESSITY this patch when everyone uses Dark Convergence. So you either drop rally for forward momentum and lose an essential heal or you get forced to run 5 medium to get shuffle or you have to run protective plate which is a mag ability. Also dropping cauterize or FoB and losing crit is kind of not good either, especially when crit is so low. I run flames of oblivion especially for crit now. And you'll need to fossilize or talons in order to get a power lash off.
So we're dealing with
Armor buff
Flame Lash
Talons/petrify for power lash
Maybe or maybe not cauterize
Possible protective plate if you dont want to run shuffle or forward momentum
You'll be forced to run almost 4 abilities that are all mag specific, and if you're on a new toon that doesn't have access to any guilds(or if you are lazy like me and dont want to farm guilds like psijiic) and are playing PURELY off DK abilities/weapon abilities then good luck trying to sustain with stam DK and whipEdited by xDeusEJRx on October 17, 2021 3:21PMSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
This sounds like the worst advice anyone could give.
Dropping Hardened armor not only means that you have to waste a 2pc slot for chudan or another skill slot for skills like unstoppable (and morphs) or balance, you also give up on having 12% more healing received.
Dropping Cauterize means that you give up even more healing stamdk necessarily needs.
Same thing goes for dropping RaT, not only do you lack major expedition now you also have to drop Rally in favor of having a snare removal.
That build is so far off from being viable on way too many levels.
[snip]
Anyways, if one of you manages you actually make magicka whip (on stamDk) work in Cyrodiil you have my respect, because I can't think of a single instance where I would want it over spamming uppercut, or just playing a real stamina class.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 18, 2021 1:03PM0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Can we get a definition for "viable" as it's used here?
It's mistake, i meant passable.
I read "viable" as "passable" too. I also have about 5k hours on the class, and I know it will be "passable", just as Molten Armaments, Green Dragon Blood, and Flames of Oblivion always have been. Almost never, however, have any of these 3 skills fit into what was broadly accepted as an "optimized" StamDK.
Whip will be passable. Will it be optimizable? No, mostly because it is does not "leave an effect on the ground".
There's 4 DKs on the Overall Leaderboard on my server. Nearly every group I encounter in GH or BGs has their offense focused around DC. We're like one village debating how to best gather wild wheat when the neighboring villages have all started cultivating it.
Unless we're talking No Proc?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Ragnarock41 wrote: »This sounds like the worst advice anyone could give.
Dropping Hardened armor not only means that you have to waste a 2pc slot for chudan or another skill slot for skills like unstoppable (and morphs) or balance, you also give up on having 12% more healing received.
Dropping Cauterize means that you give up even more healing stamdk necessarily needs.
Same thing goes for dropping RaT, not only do you lack major expedition now you also have to drop Rally in favor of having a snare removal.
That build is so far off from being viable on way too many levels.
[snip]
Anyways, if one of you manages you actually make magicka whip (on stamDk) work in Cyrodiil you have my respect, because I can't think of a single instance where I would want it over spamming uppercut, or just playing a real stamina class.
Agreed, why all other classes got stam spammable while dk need to accept the fact there's no class stam spam morph.
NB -> stam and mag
Temp -> stam and mag
Warden -> stam and mag
Necro -> stam and mag
Even sorc got stam and mag class spam.
This is just totally nonsense that dk need to live with spam that cost mag, devs just ignore the truth that dk needs a stam whip as a spam and keep creating unequal performance to give dk limited choices.
[snip]
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 18, 2021 1:04PM3 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Can we get a definition for "viable" as it's used here?
It's mistake, i meant passable.
I read "viable" as "passable" too. I also have about 5k hours on the class, and I know it will be "passable", just as Molten Armaments, Green Dragon Blood, and Flames of Oblivion always have been. Almost never, however, have any of these 3 skills fit into what was broadly accepted as an "optimized" StamDK.
Whip will be passable. Will it be optimizable? No, mostly because it is does not "leave an effect on the ground".
There's 4 DKs on the Overall Leaderboard on my server. Nearly every group I encounter in GH or BGs has their offense focused around DC. We're like one village debating how to best gather wild wheat when the neighboring villages have all started cultivating it.
Unless we're talking No Proc?
I don't know how many hours I played this class, but I started the game in 2015 as a stam and mag dk. So I'm more legitimate than most here, who have no valid argument against a true stamwhip.
I created this post for these people to prove that a real boost is totally unnecessary, as they say elsewhere, but obviously no one can because it's wrong.Edited by Wellsley on October 17, 2021 1:31PM0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭Developers can also participate in the debate, because to say it's good is not a valid argument.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586966/real-stamwhip#latest goEdited by Wellsley on October 17, 2021 1:37PM0 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
That's not very optimal, dropping RAT only leaves forward momentum and shuffle for access to CC immunity. and Immunity is a NECESSITY this patch when everyone uses Dark Convergence. So you either drop rally for forward momentum and lose an essential heal or you get forced to run 5 medium to get shuffle or you have to run protective plate which is a mag ability. Also dropping cauterize or FoB and losing crit is kind of not good either, especially when crit is so low. I run flames of oblivion especially for crit now. And you'll need to cauterize or talons in order to get a power lash off.
So we're dealing with
Armor buff
Flame Lash
Talons/petrify for power lash
Maybe or maybe not cauterize
Possible protective plate if you dont want to run shuffle or forward momentum
You'll be forced to run almost 4 abilities that are all mag specific, and if you're on a new toon that doesn't have access to any guilds(or if you are lazy like me and dont want to farm guilds like psijiic) and are playing PURELY off DK abilities/weapon abilities then good luck trying to sustain with stam DK and whip
Don't forget that Cauterize now gives wep crit buff too. So it's arguably even better than it was before.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Can we get a definition for "viable" as it's used here?
It's mistake, i meant passable.
I read "viable" as "passable" too. I also have about 5k hours on the class, and I know it will be "passable", just as Molten Armaments, Green Dragon Blood, and Flames of Oblivion always have been. Almost never, however, have any of these 3 skills fit into what was broadly accepted as an "optimized" StamDK.
Whip will be passable. Will it be optimizable? No, mostly because it is does not "leave an effect on the ground".
There's 4 DKs on the Overall Leaderboard on my server. Nearly every group I encounter in GH or BGs has their offense focused around DC. We're like one village debating how to best gather wild wheat when the neighboring villages have all started cultivating it.
Unless we're talking No Proc?
I don't know how many hours I played this class, but I started the game in 2015 as a stam and mag dk. So I'm more legitimate than most here, who have no valid argument against a true stamwhip.
I created this post for these people to prove that a real boost is totally unnecessary, as they say elsewhere, but obviously no one can because it's wrong.
The only argument any StamDK is making against StamWhip is that it doesn't exist.
You can type /played to see how much time you have on the toon. Not that it matters, of course we're all experienced here.
Nobody can offer anything other than words because this isn't live, and on Console won't be for another month. Whatever impression somebody had the moment they read the patch note is the same impression they have now, and will be until this has been live for some time.
For me, with no adjustments to my builds or general techniques, I know Molten Whip will be worth the slot for an "emergency burst" and Seething Fury the same way Green Dragon Blood is worth the slot for an "emergency heal" and Minor Vitality. As in, passable, and not as bad as people make it out to be. People hold up Frag's 6 seconds of 16% Healing Done as the greatest thing there is in the DK kit but then write off GDB's 20+ seconds of 8% Healing Taken as utterly useless. The popularity of Frag had as much to do with the Earthern Heart passives as its actual effects, and these EH passives can be sourced from other skills. That's off-topic but gets to the overall point that if you proclaim "There is only one specific way to play DK using an array of 10 specific skills which provide the best mathematical efficiency, anything else I will not touch", then no, you're not going to be able to use Whip. You can sacrifice efficiency for niche advantages. That's nothing new in this game. That's where Whip is right now, along with the similarly scaled, Mag-using Flames of Oblivion. So what?
The point of my last comment was that if you think anything about a single target spammable is going to make a huge difference for your success in Cyrodiil or BGs then we're not playing the same game. If you're talking No Proc, if you're talking Dueling, then we're on different subjects.
So, is it worth jostling everything around to try and use this as our only single target spammable, which seemed to the point of this thread, and was clearly what @BattleAxe was trying to offer some novel ideas to do?
No, absolutely not. You either put on Dark Convergence, or you put on Kragenac's to pick up its victims, or, what exactly are you doing with your time and your slot in your faction's pop limit? RPing a Solo Brawler? Great, that's fun, that's what I mostly do too, and I can see using Whip there for an "Emergency Burst" and Seething Fury.
We would all prefer it cost Stam, this should go without saying.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast4 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is no data here. Nothing for the devs to work with.
There is nothing to indicate anyone has logged onto the PTS and attempted a build with flamelash for either a duel or a mock fight in cyro or a bg or anything.
there isn't even a 3m parse or something comparing a good pvp setup to a build using whip.
there is literally nothing here to make the dev change their mind.
stop telling me how many hours you've played and put forward a data point, any data point, as to why this is bad.2 -
Wellsley✭✭✭There is no data here. Nothing for the devs to work with.
There is nothing to indicate anyone has logged onto the PTS and attempted a build with flamelash for either a duel or a mock fight in cyro or a bg or anything.
there isn't even a 3m parse or something comparing a good pvp setup to a build using whip.
there is literally nothing here to make the dev change their mind.
stop telling me how many hours you've played and put forward a data point, any data point, as to why this is bad.
You don't have to have tested it and be smart to figure out that this whip for a stamdk is completely useless.
It seems to me that some have already tested it (deltia for exemple) and don't want to play with it0 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭Try something simple: take your current stamDK build and any element that has stam recovery flip that to stam+mag recovery.
If you aren't useing set bonuses or enchants for recovery then you are probably using mundus and/or food. Try flipping that.0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭thadjarvis wrote: »Try something simple: take your current stamDK build and any element that has stam recovery flip that to stam+mag recovery.
If you aren't useing set bonuses or enchants for recovery then you are probably using mundus and/or food. Try flipping that.
I have already calculated this and it is possible, the regen can be good but there are other problems, too many to make this fake stamwhip playable.2 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭If you replace current stam cost spam skill with mag cost whip the only build change needed would be shifting some stam recovery to mag? Curious what the other factors are.0
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There's plenty of good reason why cost mag will only work in pve since you will lose some offensive stats and other mag skill choices.(class mag skills which already cost alot)
And even molten whip is fully proc it still won't one brust you target since you need to cast at least 3 other ardent skills before you leap to execute range. (for mag builds maybe but mag leap does less damage than take flight)Edited by JasonWangTaiwan on October 18, 2021 4:28PM0 -
Wellsley✭✭✭thadjarvis wrote: »If you replace current stam cost spam skill with mag cost whip the only build change needed would be shifting some stam recovery to mag? Curious what the other factors are.
1. The amount of magicka to cast skills.
2. The number of useful skills that cost magicka.
3. The weapons for regen with heavy attack.
4. All the statistics to sacrifice to compensate for all these problems.
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Wellsley✭✭✭What's the point of sacrificing so much to play with this fake stamwhip if you don't have enough damage, healing, and defense (hp and resist) ?0
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thadjarvis✭✭✭✭It sounds like you want to play "magDK" with a "stam" weapon. That'll work. Why not just do that? I put those words in quotes because the distinction barely exists anymore especially in PvP once next patch hits.0
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Wellsley✭✭✭thadjarvis wrote: »It sounds like you want to play "magDK" with a "stam" weapon. That'll work. Why not just do that? I put those words in quotes because the distinction barely exists anymore especially in PvP once next patch hits.
Replace fake stamwhip with dizziying or power slam, stamdk can play with cauterize, volatile armor, shoking talons, green dragon blood, fragmented shield, fossilize, elusive mist and race against time. Stay with fake stamwhip, removes almost all of these skills.
A magdk can play with sword and board (old school) or 2h but not with stam skills because they won't be of use to him.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭VarisVaris wrote: »@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
This sounds like the worst advice anyone could give.
Dropping Hardened armor not only means that you have to waste a 2pc slot for chudan or another skill slot for skills like unstoppable (and morphs) or balance, you also give up on having 12% more healing received.
Dropping Cauterize means that you give up even more healing stamdk necessarily needs.
Same thing goes for dropping RaT, not only do you lack major expedition now you also have to drop Rally in favor of having a snare removal.
That build is so far off from being viable on way too many levels.
As I already run 5 medium on my stam dk shuffle is already in my buff bar balance is actually pretty decent for armor buff. Also roll dodge to avoid some damage. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. To say stam dk running whip is either/or not passable or viable is a bit extreme. Been playing eso since launch and have always adapted to changes. Only mag skills I run on my pvp stam dk are fossilize and shield for major mending but have a build in mind that I’ll be able to drop shield.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭VarisVaris wrote: »@Vizirith out of curiosity why would flamelash / powerlash need a high mag pool?
if the idea is to get off balance and then powerlash, the cost reduction on powerlash is pretty big.
Yeah but for pvp you'd be unlikely to have all that much mag to spare. To break even in the hypothetical situation of 5x lashing every 22 secs (5x lashes in the 7 sec off balance window + 15 sec off balance cd) you'd need 523 mag recovery alone. And then what other mag skills do you use? Frag shield maj mending is a nice chunk of healing with the earthen heart passives in addition. You'd be hard pressed to be able to keep up everything for max effectiveness. Personally I use RAT, Volatile Armor, Cauterize, Frag Shield. Just between volatile armor and lashes I'd need 800 mag recovery to break even. Do you forgo frag shield to save mag? Maybe but the lack of min brut, ult gen and stam gen would hurt a bit; can't use fossilize because that's even more mag needed. RAT is borderline necessary.
When I say "not viable" I'm talking about would it be on par or better than mainstream stam builds. I guess you could just forgo frag shield and simply run a typical stamdk 2H/SnB build and whip spam in the off balance window. If you BB trickery the loss of frag shield wont be felt that hard and you'd basically trade some dmg (no min brut) for maybe slightly better healing (loss of on demand maj mending +min brutality (lower rally/vigor heal) vs healing from lash).
Volatile armor can be easily dropped and get your major resolve via other means perfect skill for mag sustain balance or utilize mighty chudan and well that’s one less mag skill RAT is unnecessary so there goes another mag skill. Cauterize sure gives a heal but that can be dropped for flame lash so basically drop all mag skills save for your shield for major mending and now mag sustain should be easier even more so considering the sustain dk passive changes.
1000 on burning proc off cool down is nothing to sneeze at plus all stats restored by x amount based on ultimate consumed that’s a huge burst heal. Without actually attempting to adjust or try to work it out it’s too early to say one can not make a viable stam dk pvp build utilizing flame lash.
This sounds like the worst advice anyone could give.
Dropping Hardened armor not only means that you have to waste a 2pc slot for chudan or another skill slot for skills like unstoppable (and morphs) or balance, you also give up on having 12% more healing received.
Dropping Cauterize means that you give up even more healing stamdk necessarily needs.
Same thing goes for dropping RaT, not only do you lack major expedition now you also have to drop Rally in favor of having a snare removal.
That build is so far off from being viable on way too many levels.
As I already run 5 medium on my stam dk shuffle is already in my buff bar balance is actually pretty decent for armor buff. Also roll dodge to avoid some damage. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. To say stam dk running whip is either/or not passable or viable is a bit extreme. Been playing eso since launch and have always adapted to changes. Only mag skills I run on my pvp stam dk are fossilize and shield for major mending but have a build in mind that I’ll be able to drop shield.
No Burning Heart though, the 12% Healing Taken passive in Draconic Power? If you really prefer to use a different source of Major Resolve than Spiked Armor, you can at least slot GDB and altogether get 20% Healing Taken just from that skill.
That's more than twice the Passive Healing from Major Mending with a much more sustainable Mag cost - ignoring how you'd source your EH passives of course. Burning Heart and Minor Vitality are of course much better than Major Mending if you're not doing all of your own Healing.
Edited by Urzigurumash on October 18, 2021 8:35PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0