Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

linlilia

Honestly have to say that DM is my least favorite of the modes, and stopped playing BGs a while ago because of it. Guess I just completely avoid them now.

I don't play FPS and Battleroyal games for a reason.......................

Alchimiste1

SimonThesis wrote: »

Exactly, why are we catering to the people know can't follow the rules of the game and be part of a group? If they can't follow the objectives just ban em don't take away options from everyone else.

LOL

Deanathrae

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

Pity. DM is my least favorite BG mode. Well, I guess I'll be taking a break then until the fun modes are reintroduced.

DM is the reason I don't play BGs any more.

I don't want to play BGs, and I find the other match types much more interesting.

Amottica

@ZOS_GinaBruno

If those that queue for a random BG are used to fill DM groups then the data that needs to be reviewed is how many players or groups queued for DM vs how many queued for randoms. If the number of players queuing for DMs is low but the number of DM matches is high then the system is designed to pander to the minority at the expense of the majority.

Another way to test this is to have the DM queue exclusive to those queueing for DM. However, if that queue is slow to pop then DM players may just queue for a random and keep on doing DM.

It is good to test and see where the numbers lay.

SimonThesis

Sluggy wrote: »

I stopped doing BGs a long time ago. I might consider returning due to this however, the second i saw the announcement I knew it wasn't going to go over well. I guess 'the data' will be the final decider there.

However, can ZoS tell us: are they going to continue their, frankly, terrible precedent of not not including any kind of in-game announcement, indicator, UI element, or otherwise any indication to the casual players that do not come to the forums to find out about these things? We already have a no-proc Cyrodiil that provides exactly ZERO indications to anyone that certain equipment doesn't work. Are we going to keep rolling down this hill and stop next at "let's not actually inform anyone there are no matches other than deathmatch'. It's stuff like this that is FAR more worrisome to me.

This is another problem they need to stop Legislating from the Forums and blindsiding the general public most of whom don't wanna go thru the hassle of going thru multiple customer support reps just to get a forum account. This announcement should have made ingame or put on the launcher. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Marto

Personally, it's a bit disheartening to see so many people support this change. Of course everyone is allowed to have preferences. And on many ways, I do prefer Team Deathmatch myself.

But if the average player really cares so little for objectives, strategy, teamwork and planning... Then why have Cyrodiil? Why have keeps and scrolls? Why even have 3-team battlegrounds to begin with if all people want is dueling and fighting?

MMOs have different roles, builds, classes and playstyles. In my opinion, a good MMO PVP mode should find interesting ways to experiment with those roles and playstyles. It shouldn't be just fighting.

There's sneaking behind enemy lines, ambushing people from behind, standing back with support and heals, or taking the frontline as a diversion. And all those playstyles become far less valid or rewarding in Team Deathmatch.

I think this is a horrendous change that strips all the uniqueness and potential BGs and ESO PVP have.

Recremen

I haven't had much time to play battlegrounds lately, but I've loved each match type, they all give something interesting to build around. At the end of the day, though, if you take away peoples' choice to queue for different types of play, you're inevitably going to get people ignoring objectives and just looking for fights, since that's what most people are getting into battlegrounds for to begin with. Plus there's no penalty for not playing the objective (no realistic way to track that behavior either). Many, if not most, people who are interested in battlegrounds tend to get into it because it's fast, reliable combat where you don't have to jump through any extra hoops to participate. You can't scratch that itch in Cyro or Imperial City, and we live in a world where that fast-paced, instant-action Battle Royale type of PvP has clearly won the marketplace. That's what Deathmatch mode is for this game, just a BR mode where the map is already small and respawns ensure that the fight doesn't stop for long.

I look forward to the return of the other modes (I do still have a few achievements to get in them, when I find the time again) but I really hope we don't return to a place where people are denied choices like they are now.

Sluggy

Marto wrote: »

Personally, it's a bit disheartening to see so many people support this change. Of course everyone is allowed to have preferences. And on many ways, I do prefer Team Deathmatch myself.

But if the average player really cares so little for objectives, strategy, teamwork and planning... Then why have Cyrodiil? Why have keeps and scrolls? Why even have 3-team battlegrounds to begin with if all people want is dueling and fighting?

MMOs have different roles, builds, classes and playstyles. In my opinion, a good MMO PVP mode should find interesting ways to experiment with those roles and playstyles. It shouldn't be just fighting.

There's sneaking behind enemy lines, ambushing people from behind, standing back with support and heals, or taking the frontline as a diversion. And all those playstyles become far less valid or rewarding in Team Deathmatch.

I think this is a horrendous change that strips all the uniqueness and potential BGs and ESO PVP have.

I think it's fair to say that Cyrodiil and BGs are very different kinds of gameplay. Cyrodiil is specifically designed with the idea of 'Next time, bring more soldiers' as well as hit-n-run tactics to distract other groups. But, I put it to you that most people that regularly do BGs are there specifically for fast-paced and frequent fights where overwhelming numbers won't be the key deciding factor most of the time. They want a fight. They want it now. And they don't want gimmicks or highly niche-builds/playstyles that dominate certain types of matches.

Gamerscape2007

I'll just say this. The timing on this post is a little too suspicious. Maybe I'm putting on my tin foil hat, or whatever, but it almost seems like you did this to maintain the pvp community who is most likely gonna be moving on to new world that is coming out in 13 days. I mean, you denied the pvp community, for years, to add in a death match only mode. Making nonsensical excuses along the way. But now that new world is coming out soon, you did this? Seems a little weird man.

But even if that isn't the case. It's a little too late for this mode now. Especially now that everyone and their grandmothers are running Hrothgar, dark convergence, ect ect.

Alendrin

The problem with some of the modes is they encourage the players to avoid pvp. In a pvp zone. I like this change but would be happy if the other modes were redesigned to encourage pvp not encourage avoiding pvp in order to win.

FrankonPC

SimonThesis wrote: »

Exactly, why are we catering to the people know can't follow the rules of the game and be part of a group? If they can't follow the objectives just ban em don't take away options from everyone else.

The area is called "Battlegrounds" yet some of the game modes give a strong preference to not actually battling. Some people like to fight other players and realize that some of the objectives are just a game of mount/sprint simulator.

CaperGuy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

Well to be honest, what I think is if people are treating any game mode as if it’s a death match and not going for the objective, in an ideal world ZOS would code in a way to not reward them with AP or gear rewards for purposely doing that and ignoring objectives, forcing their greed to maybe adjust their behaviour or deserter debuff them or similar. Practically though I’m not certain how they would be able to tell that through in game systems that people were ignoring the objectives. Then there’s the people who don’t care about the rewards in the first place, in which case even that kind of measure wouldn’t work.

I’m not sure what the right answer is. I guess maybe just bend to the players will in this case and bring back specific game mode queuing.

MaxJrFTW

Nice! At least I'll have something to play from the 20th to the 28th.

kilroy5250

I hate deathmatch. I like all the others. I'm sure I won't be missed, but there is a part of the game I won't be able to enjoy for a while.

Too bad. Thanks for the heads up though. At least I get to skip what is a grind for me.

Hexquisite

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I mostly solo que for BGS, as such, I get many players on my team who really want to play the objectives. I rarely get grouped with the same people. So there are a lot of people out there who like Flag Games.

To those that hate Deathmatch, they aren't that bad IMHO--I'm guessing maybe it is the killing and how toxic some people can be, BUT most of my death matches actually have very few kills from any teams, it is not like when you see Crazy King Matches with players who have 35 kills because they ignore the objectives.

divnyi

Marto wrote: »

There's sneaking behind enemy lines, ambushing people from behind, standing back with support and heals, or taking the frontline as a diversion. And all those playstyles become far less valid or rewarding in Team Deathmatch.

I think this is a horrendous change that strips all the uniqueness and potential BGs and ESO PVP have.

This is all valid strategies in DM. If anything, DM is one of the best modes for healer, because you are supposed to run as a team, and you want to heal full team - you are more effective this way. Flags, relics require split to win.

As for permablock tanks that ruin relics and chaosballs: well screw them. This wasn't healthy. Played it a lot, played against it a lot. It's fun for the first 10 games. And yes, this is the meta of all your super objective game modes. Absolutely non-interactive potato.

Mariusghost84

Thank god for this. The is the best change to BGS after adding solo q! I'm one of those players that only plays deathmatch, no matter mode.

Strider__Roshin

Collecting data my butt. They didn't learn anything new. They've known everyone prefers DM hence why you used to be able to queue for it, and then they foolishly reverted it, and rather than admit they made a mistake they're acting like they've discovered some breakthrough discovery. This kind of gaslighting only works if you're new or if you haven't been paying attention.

So when are we going to discover some new data showing that adding cast times to instant cast ultimates was a mistake?

Mariusghost84

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

Pity. DM is my least favorite BG mode. Well, I guess I'll be taking a break then until the fun modes are reintroduced.

@Ye_Olde_Crowe maybe pvp isn't for you if you don't like to kill players? Maybe PvE suits you better?

Lluanda

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

Pity. DM is my least favorite BG mode. Well, I guess I'll be taking a break then until the fun modes are reintroduced.

@Ye_Olde_Crowe maybe pvp isn't for you if you don't like to kill players? Maybe PvE suits you better?

They didn't say they don't like to kill other players, they said death match is their least favourite game mode. I enjoy them all but I agree with this too. Simply going around killing others isn't as much fun to me as having that extra layer of an objective added to it.

VixxVexx

Finally, now make it no proc or give us rulesets.

Give the objective gamers the possibilty to queue for fungrounds (no dm), so they can get their participation reward for playing tag.

tomofhyrule

I understand it. Not thrilled about it, but then again I don't really play BGs outside of MYM. But when I do, Deathmatch is by far my least favorite mode - I favor playing more tanky and don't really have the damage or burst to match, so I usually end up with a bunch of assists and very few actual kills. DM games do tend to leave support players hanging. If this holds, I can't really see myself doing battlegrounds. At least in Cyrodiil and the IC there are quests that go beyond "kill other people."

My big question would be the achievements and collectibles - with this test (change?), pretty well every achievement that requires one of the other modes, and all of the dyes/outfit styles that drop from the other modes, will be unobtainable. Does that mean they will be moved to DM games? Will they just be wholesale deleted? At least I'm glad I already got my firedrake styles, but pity that I don't have those dyes yet (though at 100 relics, I don't think I'll ever get them... Hey ZOS, these are the only three perfectly matte dyes - can you make more? They are surprisingly good on certain things, but so hard to get)

If the BG modes were up to me, I'd think that making the group be objective and the solo be DM would be a good way to help. I know a lot of BG players would like to keep DM groups, but that also seems to be where the toxicity is coming from. I know when I've been in premades with my friends, we didn't do much strategizing in DM games beyond "purple is squishy, go for them," whereas in the other modes, we're constantly on comms trying to figure out who'll guard base or which flag to go for or the like. DM always ended up turning into a bit of a free-for-all, usually where one team would just wipe the floor with the others. It may not be the most favored option for the elite BG players if it were solo DM/group objective, but that might end up making it more fair to all players and then still allow for people to play the objectives.

Pity. I did really like Chaosball/Crazy King modes. Capture the Relic though? Won't really miss it (but I wish I could get that dye...)

Although here's a thought - a lot of players go for DM (and turn the other modes into DM) because they just want to kill other players. What about adding ranked duelling arenas or free-for-alls? I know a lot of PvPers talk about how IC is just a gankfest and Cyrodiil is too big, while they're looking for more small-scale PvP. Adding a ranked 1v1 duel probably won't take away from the population too much, but it would still be giving the PvP population something they want.

Firstmep

This is clearly a very divisive change.
And I dont think it's the solution.
The main issues on live currently:
Dm players ignoring objectives: this is due to not being able to select their preferred mode, as well as the expectation, that pvp combat will occur in a pvp game mode. Meanwhile there is a subset of players, that want to avoid combat, either beacuse they just there to collect motifs or daily xP, or just beacuse it's often the easiest way to win objective modes.
These modes need to be reworked to have a bigger emphasis on combat, but not to the extent that DM has
The problem with this change yet again, is that poorly thought out decisions usually reduce the BG population, which then makes it impossible for zos to give people the ability to fully choose game modes at will,at least not without splintering the bg pop too much.

Zabagad

OK - it looks like ZOS is open to do something with BG.
So maybe it's not 100% a waste of time to give you my input?

I am playing PvP in cyro for ~2 years now and I never entered a BG so far.
Why? Because I would be totaly lost what I have to do in a non deathmatch mode.
Maybe it's my age, or my personality, but I don't like to do something without knowing what to do.
And maybe there are other ppl like me?

If you would create a tutorial (like you did for Volendrung) where I can explore one map - and it shows me what I have to do and where I have to go and so on, I have had played BG for sure.
But so I was many times close to enter (events), but every time I descided at the end that it's to much stress for me.

So I would like to use the chance to enter the BGs during your test, because I would at least know that I only have to kill.
But this point is true for me too:

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't like that I can't use my Cyrodiil setups in BGs, because you removed proc sets from Ravenwatch.

Maybe I try it with one of my pre U31 builds...?

Taktak

Deathmatch Queue


but what about DARK CONVERGENCE and HROTHGAR'S? any nerf soon?

Andyhunter21

What a horrible decision! What about crazy king and Domination? At least leave those! The only reason people treat those as team deathmatch is because people are sick of cyrodiil so they are taking their anger out in every bg. So now you are going to reward them for this? Yikes.

Having only ONE mode for bgs is ridiculous and will make it VERY hard for certain dailies when you have to win 3 games! Please rethink this horrible idea. You will only drive MORE people aways from this already dying pvp mode.

Andyhunter21

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Further dumbing down and pandering to the toxic elements of the playerbase? Strong leadership, GG.

Exactly! What are they thinking? They can't be this desperate or maybe they can I guess.

Treeshka

So basically all the achievements that can only be completed in other modes can not be completed for this period of time i guess.

Atrael7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0


Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno

Coerfroid

Really? This is very sad news.
Removing the tactical game-modes will remove a lot of fun and excitement.
A lot of players enjoy the tactical elements over blunt ganking and playing for objectives actually encourages teamplay.

Yes, there will alway be the random group that just won't grasp how the objectives work and end up with twice the kills and half the victory points. But it only takes so long to learn.

It would be a very bad move to remove them completely and I trust in the commujnity to give a constructive feedback about it.

Now, if there are those who actually prefer a dedicated deathmatch mode over random tactical modes, then separate queues may be the answer.