Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

the1andonlyskwex

I haven't been playing much lately, but this pretty much guarantees I won't be back any time soon.

As others have said: You're basically rewarding the petulant children for throwing tantrums (i.e. treating objective modes as deathmatch and ruining them for everyone else).

Also, the main reason avoiding combat is a winning strategy in objective modes is because the childish deathmatchers aren't playing the objectives. If they actually captured and held objectives instead of spawn camping or gathering in the middle of the map, they might actually win.

gariondavey

Eevee_42 wrote: »

Can we stop pretending that objective gamers possess some tactical superiority over brainless deathmatch enjoyers already? While there are a small handful of players who truly enjoy the objective game modes, if we are telling it like it is, most people “enjoy” them because they’re easier to win, don’t require much pvp skill, and it’s less effort to earn your daily and move on. Running around and avoiding pvp while others are playing deathmatch is the reality of BGs right now. It isn’t that DM players don’t know how to play objectives, they’re simply poorly designed and discourage the reason many of us are there which is to engage in pvp.

If we are viewing these modes from a high MMR perspective, deathmatch takes the most strategic gameplay. There is a lot of nuance that goes into each and every choice you make in a high level deathmatch. Positioning, ability and ultimate timing, having a good healer, keeping up your buffs, your build, having good target priority, avoiding a 3rd party, potion timing, and so much more go into it. It’s disingenuous to act like deathmatch is a brain dead kill fest. There is no other game mode where team synergy is as important. There are tournaments centered around TDM because it is the most competitive game mode that requires the most skill and tactical ability by far.

While I don’t like the fact that we still can’t technically choose a game mode, I’m happy that the most competitive one is going to encourage people to actually learn how to pvp and have to earn their wins. Maybe you’ll realize along the way that you have more fun pvp’ing as a team rather than running around on some flags. Many of the best sets are base game or available in guild traders, so no excuse to blame your gear either. Put some effort into it and don’t just stroll into a BG in your pve gear expecting a win. Think about how long DM players have been stuck being forced into objective games 90% of the time over the past year. You could go days without seeing a deathmatch. I hope ZOS can build up a healthy pvp population to support all game modes eventually so we can all play what we enjoy at the end of the day. If the population is truly as small as people make it out to be, it makes sense to have the most popular game mode be the only option right now.

P.S. can we fix the broken dark convergence and hrothgar’s sets already? BGs will not be truly enjoyable until these are addressed.

Amen. Excellent post

MurderMostFoul

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I haven't been playing much lately, but this pretty much guarantees I won't be back any time soon.

As others have said: You're basically rewarding the petulant children for throwing tantrums (i.e. treating objective modes as deathmatch and ruining them for everyone else).

Also, the main reason avoiding combat is a winning strategy in objective modes is because the childish deathmatchers aren't playing the objectives. If they actually captured and held objectives instead of spawn camping or gathering in the middle of the map, they might actually win.

Strange how much toxicity there is here by players who are against this change toward players who prefer Deathmatch.

JACKYSANGRIA

I’m disappointed to see this change. I play dozens of BG daily, light up to see Capture the Relic and Chaosball. Clinched MVP countless times, always screen shot it. I love objective games especially because wit and guile often beat brute force. This is just rewarding the killer trolls. Why not offer better incentives/rewards for players who earn the most objective based medals? You can catch more flies with honey. Just separate the queues and increase the rewards. Solo vs group, deathmatch vs objective. 4 queues total.

Lauranae

If you want to really see if DM is so much demanded for 3 months give to all the choices, but not randomly. Give us the real choice.

Let us play what we want. Then, if DM is really above all the others choices, no one could complain, me included.

Your arbitrary decision is really a punch in the face to those who are not for doing DM all day long.

So they have IC, cyro and now BG ?

Lauranae

gariondavey wrote: »

Eevee_42 wrote: »

Can we stop pretending that objective gamers possess some tactical superiority over brainless deathmatch enjoyers already? While there are a small handful of players who truly enjoy the objective game modes, if we are telling it like it is, most people “enjoy” them because they’re easier to win, don’t require much pvp skill, and it’s less effort to earn your daily and move on. Running around and avoiding pvp while others are playing deathmatch is the reality of BGs right now. It isn’t that DM players don’t know how to play objectives, they’re simply poorly designed and discourage the reason many of us are there which is to engage in pvp.

If we are viewing these modes from a high MMR perspective, deathmatch takes the most strategic gameplay. There is a lot of nuance that goes into each and every choice you make in a high level deathmatch. Positioning, ability and ultimate timing, having a good healer, keeping up your buffs, your build, having good target priority, avoiding a 3rd party, potion timing, and so much more go into it. It’s disingenuous to act like deathmatch is a brain dead kill fest. There is no other game mode where team synergy is as important. There are tournaments centered around TDM because it is the most competitive game mode that requires the most skill and tactical ability by far.

While I don’t like the fact that we still can’t technically choose a game mode, I’m happy that the most competitive one is going to encourage people to actually learn how to pvp and have to earn their wins. Maybe you’ll realize along the way that you have more fun pvp’ing as a team rather than running around on some flags. Many of the best sets are base game or available in guild traders, so no excuse to blame your gear either. Put some effort into it and don’t just stroll into a BG in your pve gear expecting a win. Think about how long DM players have been stuck being forced into objective games 90% of the time over the past year. You could go days without seeing a deathmatch. I hope ZOS can build up a healthy pvp population to support all game modes eventually so we can all play what we enjoy at the end of the day. If the population is truly as small as people make it out to be, it makes sense to have the most popular game mode be the only option right now.

P.S. can we fix the broken dark convergence and hrothgar’s sets already? BGs will not be truly enjoyable until these are addressed.

Amen. Excellent post

Sorry but i totally disagree. I dont see where is the strategy during DM. The DM teams enter the match and what ? they dont have to think, they just have to kill. Me included. Talk about Chaos and Relic, then yes. Those match are fun because they have DM and objectif in the same match. DM could be transported to Cyro or IC you would not have any difference.

auz

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I haven't been playing much lately, but this pretty much guarantees I won't be back any time soon.

As others have said: You're basically rewarding the petulant children for throwing tantrums (i.e. treating objective modes as deathmatch and ruining them for everyone else).

Also, the main reason avoiding combat is a winning strategy in objective modes is because the childish deathmatchers aren't playing the objectives. If they actually captured and held objectives instead of spawn camping or gathering in the middle of the map, they might actually win.

Rather than rewarding petulant tantrums, maybe they are acknowledging an out patience demographic. I always try to play the objective to some extent because I like to win. But I didn't spend who knows how many hours theorycrafting and farming or making a build to win a foot race around a merry go round. The facts are a at least 2 objective modes actively discourage pvp. And the others are prone to trolls. A pvp objective game where a player can high score and carry a team to win while going 0 and 20, is a poorly designed objective. Objectives should encourage conflict. If you think otherwise, maybe pvp isn't for you. If objectives encouraged battles there wouldn't be as much reason to ignore them.

MipMip

Urvoth wrote: »

Best change ever to happen to BGs

29 'agree' for this post and counting... my agree is among them

Magio_ wrote: »

Finally. Thank you.

My feeling exactly

This is a wonderful change!

Lady_Galadhiel

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

For real? Ok so people really only want to see the easiest and most banal game mode Bgs have to offer?

As someone who has literally played and won 1,000s of BG matches, I don't understand how people can possibly believe that deathmatch is "easiest."

It is far easier to win objective modes where you can entirely avoid combat. Just sprint to open flags in domination and crazy King, sneak capture flags in capture the relic, and grab and run away with the ball in chaos ball. Those basic tactics are incredibly easy, and make winning feel cheap. It's far more difficult to consistently win player versus player combat engagements, have proper target selection, threat assessment, death avoidance, and team combat coordination, all which are required to win a game of death match. Sure, if you happen to be on a stacked team in death match against significantly inferior opponents, it'll be easier. But that's true of objective modes as well. But when team power levels are at least somewhat balanced, winning death match presents the greatest challenge.

I pvp because I enjoy creating builds and testing them in dynamic combat against other players. BG death match is the best forum to do so. All the other BG modes de-emphasize combat, and hence fail to provide adequate assessment of the combat power of builds, or the combat skill of players.

Nothing in DM is difficult,you dont need team coordination of any kind.
With premades every mode is easy,but my concern is when people play with randoms.
If enemy teams avoid objectives they aren't playing the bgs how they suppose to,even if they get lot of kills and end up in the last place because they choosed to ignore the objective,they still lost no matter how ''good'' they feel for killing others who play the game how it is supposed to.

ALL Bg modes include killing others,only that apart from that you have to do something more then mindless killing what DM is about.
Capture the relic?Kill the player/s who defend the relic or kill the ones what goes for yours.
Chaosball? Basically constant killing of enemy players who chase your team or you chase them.
Crazy king?Again constant killing of enemy players.

The only mode where you can sort of avoid killing is domination if you wish,sort of because at some point you will have to fight,but not as much as in the others.

If every team plays the bg how it is supposed to no matter the mode,there is enough of killing envolved in each.
I have my best fun in other modes what isnt DM because the team actually has to communicate with each other while in DM everyone does their own thing.

Parasaurolophus

I've never been a fan of deathmatch. But I love that ZoS has been getting more attention on pvp lately. But let's be honest - pvp is almost dead now, and it will probably be even more dead than it is now with the release of new projects. You can't harm the dead, that's why I am in favor of carrying out various tests and experiments. However ... Just manipulating queues, separating them, limiting modes is not enough. All modes are pretty bad and need to be reworked / improved. I'm serious. Even deathmatch, which everyone loves here so much, have many flaws and I'm honestly surprised why no one here talks about them. For example:
1) Balance. The most annoying part of DM for me. If you are not a manasorc or a stamden or a stamdc, don't even try. Stamnb is the most unwelcome guest on DM. Even though he feels much better in recent patches, he is not suitable for bg`s deathmatch. Practically nothing is good except for stamden and manasorcy.
God! Pvp in this game has a very high entry threshold. Add to this the absolutely indestructible classes that can kill you in one combo and we have what we have. The constantly decreasing population of pvp players and the lack of new pvp players. Balance is the second reason, after lags, why pvp in this game is in a terrible state.
2) Let go of some time deathmatch magically turns into a hunt for the weakest team. This is exactly the same as with the objective modes - there is no need to engage in battle, just look for easy meat.
3) Points are awarded only to the one who finished off the player and not to the one who took 99% of the health.

Two points can be corrected. Decrease the number of points for killing players from the weakest team. And also to award part of the points to the team that took most of the opponent's hp, not only to the one who finished it off.
So it is with the durgim. Remove Domination mode. Leave only Crazy King. But let there be no more than 3 flags on the map. Let the third flag appear later.
The Relic Mode requires a complete overhaul. For example, what if one relic appears at a random point on the map and the teams fight each other to turn it in at the base? Perhaps the relic in this case should impose a small debuff to speed.
Chaosball is beautiful. It’s just beautiful.

I will repeat. Deathmatch mode is no less painful than other modes. But I love objective modes. I like that BG players don't just clump together and kill everything with an assist. They are primarily competing. But I agree that avoiding combat in objective modes goes too far and becomes a priority.
I totally agreed with the solo queue. I perfectly understand why ZoS removed the mod's choice. After all, I saw how the pvp population was constantly decreasing, and for me personally, a queue that lasts more than 30+ seconds is already a lot. I'd rather play random mode than wait 5-7 minutes. But just manipulating the queues is not an option. It is useless if the mods are bad. And we see that they are bad. We see that there are many players who hate the death match. I have named the reasons above. Make the modes so that they satisfy most of the players. Is it really that hard?
Also, if the queues return, I will still play random mod = 3

Minyassa

How do you intend to find out how many people were avoiding BGs because of everyone treating every mode like Deathmatch? We'll continue to avoid BGs now, which will show no change. If you'd separated the queues you would get a better picture of the effect of players being stubborn jerks in every mode when those people had a Deathmatch-only queue to join. Now those of us who wanted to play other modes but aren't because they pretty much don't exist due to people forcing Deathmatch play have no hope whatsoever. To me and others like me, this looks like "from now on you have nothing to look forward to because we'll phase out the games that were being ruined and give those who ruined it what they wanted."

metabLast3r

Unfortunately, since 2014, this is how I see it. Just get rid of PVP. The minority that love the mode, are competitive individuals. We're outnumbered 4 to 1, when it comes to voicing our opinion about anything. No one likes fighting other players it seems. This game has a lot of things going on for it, but you can't make everyone happy, especially when the majority keeps complaining.

It's not toxic to play against other players. There is some underlying insecurity for some odd reason when it comes to this. There is no bullying in deathmatch, everything takes practice. Tired of the mislabeling tied to someone actually being competitive in a game mode that allows death by another player. We need to get rid of the "sweaty" term, it has been misinterpreted as the new "competitive" player. Just another form of looking down on someone else because they decided to be good at something. Let the casuals have the game! Pretty much over it.

Mariusghost84

Arcanasx wrote: »

I like how when deathmatch players created threads asking to have their own queue, many of the "objective" players aggressively insisted that they shouldn't split the queue to keep the wait times short. Now with the same amount of queue options as before but DM only, they start complaining about not being able to choose what they want to play. I guess when random queue only has DM happen 10% of the time for about a year its no big deal for the Player Vs Objective crowd, now suddenly not being able to play your favored mode is absolutely terrible.

The funny thing is, DM is still an objective, and that objective is to seek out and engage the enemy, secure the kills on them while minimizing your owns team's deaths. This has far more tactical potential and actual teamwork involved than the other "objective" modes where you get awarded for avoiding PvP. In the 3 way team format, the winning strategy is usually to wait for the other 2 teams to engage and then go somewhere else to capture the flag/relic uncontested, and that's incredibly shallow and boring "strategy" to win by. When it's mentioned that other games have objective based battlegrounds/matches you have to ask yourself; how many of these other games have 3 teams fighting in the same instanced match as opposed to the usual 2?

Deathmatch isn't perfect either with 3 teams, but more often than not its far more engaging at least. The objective players would have a point when they mention the "strategy" involved in winning these games if there were only 2 teams and on maps designed for it as that would usually force PvP confrontation to win.

It's clear many of the players who say they will stop playing were never really interested in PvP in the first place, treating battlegrounds as something to milk rewards from with minimal player engagement, and honestly Battlegrounds should not be catered to and designed for these kinds of players.

Bravo. You nailed it in EVERY aspect.

Death_Courir

And already the BG's have become even less interesting for me. It would have been more exciting the other way around.

gariondavey

Lauranae wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Eevee_42 wrote: »

Can we stop pretending that objective gamers possess some tactical superiority over brainless deathmatch enjoyers already? While there are a small handful of players who truly enjoy the objective game modes, if we are telling it like it is, most people “enjoy” them because they’re easier to win, don’t require much pvp skill, and it’s less effort to earn your daily and move on. Running around and avoiding pvp while others are playing deathmatch is the reality of BGs right now. It isn’t that DM players don’t know how to play objectives, they’re simply poorly designed and discourage the reason many of us are there which is to engage in pvp.

If we are viewing these modes from a high MMR perspective, deathmatch takes the most strategic gameplay. There is a lot of nuance that goes into each and every choice you make in a high level deathmatch. Positioning, ability and ultimate timing, having a good healer, keeping up your buffs, your build, having good target priority, avoiding a 3rd party, potion timing, and so much more go into it. It’s disingenuous to act like deathmatch is a brain dead kill fest. There is no other game mode where team synergy is as important. There are tournaments centered around TDM because it is the most competitive game mode that requires the most skill and tactical ability by far.

While I don’t like the fact that we still can’t technically choose a game mode, I’m happy that the most competitive one is going to encourage people to actually learn how to pvp and have to earn their wins. Maybe you’ll realize along the way that you have more fun pvp’ing as a team rather than running around on some flags. Many of the best sets are base game or available in guild traders, so no excuse to blame your gear either. Put some effort into it and don’t just stroll into a BG in your pve gear expecting a win. Think about how long DM players have been stuck being forced into objective games 90% of the time over the past year. You could go days without seeing a deathmatch. I hope ZOS can build up a healthy pvp population to support all game modes eventually so we can all play what we enjoy at the end of the day. If the population is truly as small as people make it out to be, it makes sense to have the most popular game mode be the only option right now.

P.S. can we fix the broken dark convergence and hrothgar’s sets already? BGs will not be truly enjoyable until these are addressed.

Amen. Excellent post

Sorry but i totally disagree. I dont see where is the strategy during DM. The DM teams enter the match and what ? they dont have to think, they just have to kill. Me included. Talk about Chaos and Relic, then yes. Those match are fun because they have DM and objectif in the same match. DM could be transported to Cyro or IC you would not have any difference.

Sorry, but if you have come to that conclusion you are not playing with the best players. Dm in high mmr is extremely tactical. Your positioning, CDs, build, reflexes, everything...is of critical importance. One misstep and you will be extremely punished/die.
Try playing against jinxx, arkannax, magio, timber, petrushka, akean, shoddy, constine, miracle, icaliban, skoomah, inculta, venerus, stealthful, bambloo, ahadi, titan, sujin, infernosa, etc in a dm game and you will understand what I mean.

Downey

As an achievement hunter working on ALL achievements, I run between 6-10 bgs a day...the fact that I won't b able to make progress towards a bunch of them is straight up bs! 🤬...if I only want to kill people, I have Cyrodiil and Imp City I can run around!...[snip] a big [snip] to this idea!
[edited to remove bashing/baiting comments]

metabLast3r

So the jist of it all is people just want participation trophies. I say we keep the two other mods, but everyone gets the same set of skills with baseline armor, so everyone is the same. Guess what, people will still complain that they can't get their achievements because other are better than they are. *shrugs*

VaranisArano

Sorry, draft quote.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I haven't been playing much lately, but this pretty much guarantees I won't be back any time soon.

As others have said: You're basically rewarding the petulant children for throwing tantrums (i.e. treating objective modes as deathmatch and ruining them for everyone else).

Also, the main reason avoiding combat is a winning strategy in objective modes is because the childish deathmatchers aren't playing the objectives. If they actually captured and held objectives instead of spawn camping or gathering in the middle of the map, they might actually win.

Strange how much toxicity there is here by players who are against this change toward players who prefer Deathmatch.

Not surprising at all, when you consider that ZOS effectively said they are making the change because "we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch."

I'd guess that nearly every regular BG player has dealt with the players who treat any game mode as a Deathmatch, when it's not. We've won games because someone on the other team decided to not play the objectives and go for kills instead. We've lost games when someone on our team decided to ignore the objectives and go for kills instead.

Now, folks can justify that however they like. Deathmatch is "real" PVP! Yay! Playing the objective is avoiding PVP! Boo!

But what it comes down to is that teammates who treat objective-based modes like a Deathmatch are frequently a detriment to the team's chances of winning. Why on earth wouldn't you expect that to create resentment from your teammates who are playing the mode properly?


If you prefer Deathmatch, but you played the objective modes properly, then I don't think folks are complaining about you.

If you prefer deathmatch and played objective modes like it was deathmatch, and thus were a detriment to your team's chances of victory...yeah, folks don't like that behavior. It's not toxic to tell you so.


(As an aside, I am strongly reminded of the PVE debate over Fake Tanks and Fake Healers, and how defensive some people are over their right to queue as a role they do not intend to fulfill even when it's been explained that by doing so, they place a greater burden on their random teammates.)

Dalsinthus

PVP was once my main focus in this game. I would play Cyro and BGs daily, often for many hours. I brought several characters to grand overlord and was developing more.

But lately I can barely bring myself to log in and when I do, PVP has no appeal.

For a while there I was trying for all the BG style pages. I have most of them but the last few of horned dragon, fanged worm, and battleground runner have been highly elusive. I regularly went through >50 bg games without a drop. With rewards for bg not being rewarding I felt less and less like playing.

The addition of sets like dark convergence and hrothgar further diminish the appeal of pvp.

Now this. I enjoyed all modes of bg, including dm. I don't want to only play dm. But then again, I was frustrated with the whole pvp experience: terrible cyrodiil performance, lack of balance, over performing proc sets, etc. What this does is reaffirm my decision to stay away from bg.

I do think many of the bg modes could use an overhaul. I like the ideas of fewer flags in flag games and approaches to mitigate kill stealing in dm. I really enjoy relic capture and chaos ball modes, followed by deathmatch.

Anyway I'm happy for those that like deathmatch. I'm not sure what data ZOS can draw from this but that's OK. I won't be participating until there are some major improvements to pvp, particularly around performance and balance.

TequilaFire

Such a shame all the work put in to making BG with objectives and pvp to be shot down by those who want to turn the game into solo COD style play with the twist of sets doing all the killing by pushing one button.

I think it takes more skill to kill and do the objectives, how can two things not?
It is not like there wasn't a death match mode to start with.

MurderMostFoul

gariondavey wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Eevee_42 wrote: »

Can we stop pretending that objective gamers possess some tactical superiority over brainless deathmatch enjoyers already? While there are a small handful of players who truly enjoy the objective game modes, if we are telling it like it is, most people “enjoy” them because they’re easier to win, don’t require much pvp skill, and it’s less effort to earn your daily and move on. Running around and avoiding pvp while others are playing deathmatch is the reality of BGs right now. It isn’t that DM players don’t know how to play objectives, they’re simply poorly designed and discourage the reason many of us are there which is to engage in pvp.

If we are viewing these modes from a high MMR perspective, deathmatch takes the most strategic gameplay. There is a lot of nuance that goes into each and every choice you make in a high level deathmatch. Positioning, ability and ultimate timing, having a good healer, keeping up your buffs, your build, having good target priority, avoiding a 3rd party, potion timing, and so much more go into it. It’s disingenuous to act like deathmatch is a brain dead kill fest. There is no other game mode where team synergy is as important. There are tournaments centered around TDM because it is the most competitive game mode that requires the most skill and tactical ability by far.

While I don’t like the fact that we still can’t technically choose a game mode, I’m happy that the most competitive one is going to encourage people to actually learn how to pvp and have to earn their wins. Maybe you’ll realize along the way that you have more fun pvp’ing as a team rather than running around on some flags. Many of the best sets are base game or available in guild traders, so no excuse to blame your gear either. Put some effort into it and don’t just stroll into a BG in your pve gear expecting a win. Think about how long DM players have been stuck being forced into objective games 90% of the time over the past year. You could go days without seeing a deathmatch. I hope ZOS can build up a healthy pvp population to support all game modes eventually so we can all play what we enjoy at the end of the day. If the population is truly as small as people make it out to be, it makes sense to have the most popular game mode be the only option right now.

P.S. can we fix the broken dark convergence and hrothgar’s sets already? BGs will not be truly enjoyable until these are addressed.

Amen. Excellent post

Sorry but i totally disagree. I dont see where is the strategy during DM. The DM teams enter the match and what ? they dont have to think, they just have to kill. Me included. Talk about Chaos and Relic, then yes. Those match are fun because they have DM and objectif in the same match. DM could be transported to Cyro or IC you would not have any difference.

Sorry, but if you have come to that conclusion you are not playing with the best players. Dm in high mmr is extremely tactical. Your positioning, CDs, build, reflexes, everything...is of critical importance. One misstep and you will be extremely punished/die.
Try playing against jinxx, arkannax, magio, timber, petrushka, akean, shoddy, constine, miracle, icaliban, skoomah, inculta, venerus, stealthful, bambloo, ahadi, titan, sujin, infernosa, etc in a dm game and you will understand what I mean.

This.

There is no "mindless killing" in high skill DM matches. However, it takes very little thought to run to an empty capture point, grab a chaos ball and run away, or sneak grab a relic and run.

MurderMostFoul

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sorry, draft quote.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I haven't been playing much lately, but this pretty much guarantees I won't be back any time soon.

As others have said: You're basically rewarding the petulant children for throwing tantrums (i.e. treating objective modes as deathmatch and ruining them for everyone else).

Also, the main reason avoiding combat is a winning strategy in objective modes is because the childish deathmatchers aren't playing the objectives. If they actually captured and held objectives instead of spawn camping or gathering in the middle of the map, they might actually win.

Strange how much toxicity there is here by players who are against this change toward players who prefer Deathmatch.

Not surprising at all, when you consider that ZOS effectively said they are making the change because "we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch."

I'd guess that nearly every regular BG player has dealt with the players who treat any game mode as a Deathmatch, when it's not. We've won games because someone on the other team decided to not play the objectives and go for kills instead. We've lost games when someone on our team decided to ignore the objectives and go for kills instead.

Now, folks can justify that however they like. Deathmatch is "real" PVP! Yay! Playing the objective is avoiding PVP! Boo!

But what it comes down to is that teammates who treat objective-based modes like a Deathmatch are frequently a detriment to the team's chances of winning. Why on earth wouldn't you expect that to create resentment from your teammates who are playing the mode properly?


If you prefer Deathmatch, but you played the objective modes properly, then I don't think folks are complaining about you.

If you prefer deathmatch and played objective modes like it was deathmatch, and thus were a detriment to your team's chances of victory...yeah, folks don't like that behavior. It's not toxic to tell you so.


(As an aside, I am strongly reminded of the PVE debate over Fake Tanks and Fake Healers, and how defensive some people are over their right to queue as a role they do not intend to fulfill even when it's been explained that by doing so, they place a greater burden on their random teammates.)

The reality is, the folks who prefer death match have had to deal with months of being able to play their preferred game mode 20% of the time at best. (And based on some data gathered by a few players, perhaps it has somehow worked out to significantly less than 20%). ZOS is throwing death match players of bone, and letting them play their preferred mode for awhile. Short of a complete rework of the queue system, I think this is a fair, quick, and temporary solution for a significant portion of the battlegrounds population that has been seriously underserved for an extended period of time.

GuildedLilly

One aspect I think hasn't been discussed yet on this thread is PVErs who want to tank or heal MUST do PVP to unlock Warhorn, Barrier, and to a lesser extent caltrops for additional tank CC (I don't hate dark convergence for this reason. Tanks have been begging for an aoe taunt for YEARS-- and not everyone wants to play as a perma-WW tank with tormentor. DC isn't a taunt, but it's an amazing CC without the massive resource drain of silver leashing & chaining everything, or running around stabbing everything with pierce armor/ ransack--it also helps us stack mobs nice and neat for our groups in dungeons and trials to melt them down)

The most efficient way to level Alliance skills lines is the daily bonus BGs--specifically, objective based BGs where we stand a chance of our teams placing 1st or 2nd.

I've noticed a lot of comments from PVPers who are happy DM queue is returning and mocking PVErs with the equivalent of 'git gud', or, if you're not a real PVPer, and don't want to PVP, GTFO. The fact is: many PVErs DON'T want to be in PVP areas to begin with-- We HAVE to be for 2 out of 3 battle roles, and during events, because otherwise needed skills are locked away, and we can't get event rewards--which AREN'T just for PVP events-- they're quarterly. We could be collecting fragments for MONTHS, only to get screwed on the final piece we need because yet again, ZOS is forcing us into IC instead of letting us go to Cyrodil, or converting all BGs to DM.

--BTW ZOS-- don't think I didn't notice the dates of the open ended BG experiment will most likely coicide with the next event and possibly the one after. If tickets are PVP, and tied to IC or BGs, you've effectively given your PVE players no way to avoid feeding trolls.

Look: I get PVP DM fans are happy the DM Queue is returning. Honestly, I'm happy for you. You deserve to have your DM queue back. I know this was something the death squads have been wanting for quite a while. There's just no good reason why ZOS chose to REMOVE the other battle modes as well.

Getting trolled by DM fans teabagging dead PVErs who just want to get Warhorn/Barrier, or event tickets doesn't encourage us to play PVP. It reminds us of all the reasons we HATE IT. Being taunted to 'git gud' at a game mode we despise and are FORCED to play to be effective in PVE as tanks and healers doesn't encourage us either.

I expect to die in PVP. Not all my characters are geared for it, and I hate it, so why bother wasting materials golding out new sets when I'm just there for Warhonr/Barrier, and event tickets? Why bother with the expense of re-speccing my entire character's attribute points, skill points, and CP just so that the 15min I spend in PVP that day won't suck *quite* as badly-- while I've effectively gimped myself for the play-style I actually enjoy and spend the most time with? I'm okay with dying--I try not to, and I go down swinging as best I can--but if someone good at & geared for PVP turns me into little gibblets, so be it.

What I can't stand is the constant teabagging from some BG teams, and the troll behavior. If it wasn't for the teababbing trolls and the teams who treat every BG like DM, PVP in BGs is actually kinda fun. My preference is the objective games, but even DM isn't too awful if no one's being a trolling, teabagging, toxic bully. Those players spoil it for the rest of us-- and now ZOS has effectively given them open season.

I won't be playing BGs for the duration of their experiment. When at all possible, I prefer not to feed the trolls.

metabLast3r

Easy fix:

Chaosball:

No weapons, skills are given to you like picking up the hammer in cyrodiil. The person that picks up the ball, gets a different set of skills on pickup. Players are given a guild uniform for each color. You can only be downed and drop the ball, with a 10 sec cooldown.

Flag capture (Any):

No proc sets/No Tanks/No Healers. Everyone gets baseline character builds.

Cyrodiil (Since were on the topic of PvP):

Should put more emphasis on the scrolls actually meaning something. Benefiting the faction, like the early days, receiving buffs for PvE. No faction pride, no one really cares about scrolls. There are other things I'd like to mention but, not trying to get people riled up about sets, bugs, lag etc.

clearly

GuildedLilly wrote: »

One aspect I think hasn't been discussed yet on this thread is PVErs who want to tank or heal MUST do PVP to unlock Warhorn, Barrier, and to a lesser extent caltrops for additional tank CC (I don't hate dark convergence for this reason. Tanks have been begging for an aoe taunt for YEARS-- and not everyone wants to play as a perma-WW tank with tormentor. DC isn't a taunt, but it's an amazing CC without the massive resource drain of silver leashing & chaining everything, or running around stabbing everything with pierce armor/ ransack--it also helps us stack mobs nice and neat for our groups in dungeons and trials to melt them down)

The most efficient way to level Alliance skills lines is the daily bonus BGs--specifically, objective based BGs where we stand a chance of our teams placing 1st or 2nd.

I've noticed a lot of comments from PVPers who are happy DM queue is returning and mocking PVErs with the equivalent of 'git gud', or, if you're not a real PVPer, and don't want to PVP, GTFO. The fact is: many PVErs DON'T want to be in PVP areas to begin with-- We HAVE to be for 2 out of 3 battle roles, and during events, because otherwise needed skills are locked away, and we can't get event rewards--which AREN'T just for PVP events-- they're quarterly. We could be collecting fragments for MONTHS, only to get screwed on the final piece we need because yet again, ZOS is forcing us into IC instead of letting us go to Cyrodil, or converting all BGs to DM.

--BTW ZOS-- don't think I didn't notice the dates of the open ended BG experiment will most likely coicide with the next event and possibly the one after. If tickets are PVP, and tied to IC or BGs, you've effectively given your PVE players no way to avoid feeding trolls.

Look: I get PVP DM fans are happy the DM Queue is returning. Honestly, I'm happy for you. You deserve to have your DM queue back. I know this was something the death squads have been wanting for quite a while. There's just no good reason why ZOS chose to REMOVE the other battle modes as well.

Getting trolled by DM fans teabagging dead PVErs who just want to get Warhorn/Barrier, or event tickets doesn't encourage us to play PVP. It reminds us of all the reasons we HATE IT. Being taunted to 'git gud' at a game mode we despise and are FORCED to play to be effective in PVE as tanks and healers doesn't encourage us either.

I expect to die in PVP. Not all my characters are geared for it, and I hate it, so why bother wasting materials golding out new sets when I'm just there for Warhonr/Barrier, and event tickets? Why bother with the expense of re-speccing my entire character's attribute points, skill points, and CP just so that the 15min I spend in PVP that day won't suck *quite* as badly-- while I've effectively gimped myself for the play-style I actually enjoy and spend the most time with? I'm okay with dying--I try not to, and I go down swinging as best I can--but if someone good at & geared for PVP turns me into little gibblets, so be it.

What I can't stand is the constant teabagging from some BG teams, and the troll behavior. If it wasn't for the teababbing trolls and the teams who treat every BG like DM, PVP in BGs is actually kinda fun. My preference is the objective games, but even DM isn't too awful if no one's being a trolling, teabagging, toxic bully. Those players spoil it for the rest of us-- and now ZOS has effectively given them open season.

I won't be playing BGs for the duration of their experiment. When at all possible, I prefer not to feed the trolls.

a thousand violins are playing as pve players have to spend 5 minutes in pvp areas 20 times a year; as opposed to the lucky pvp players that zos has been catering to for years, since they never had to do any pve related content. How I pity them; for they should never have to make an effort to try and prepare to face the challenges of cyrodiil and the imperial city; how dare these vile pvp enjoyers not stand in walls of element and orbs paths while not attacking these poor 20k health pve players who have yet to slot a self heal on their bar at cp 1k+. It is also truly mindblowing that zenimax allows some of these same pvp players to enter dungeons in their pvp gears; another harassment that pve players have to put up with.

seriously you could have leveled assault & support to 10 twice by zergsurfing in cyro with a few crossheals in the time you took to write all of this

Lady_Galadhiel

GuildedLilly wrote: »

One aspect I think hasn't been discussed yet on this thread is PVErs who want to tank or heal MUST do PVP to unlock Warhorn, Barrier, and to a lesser extent caltrops for additional tank CC (I don't hate dark convergence for this reason. Tanks have been begging for an aoe taunt for YEARS-- and not everyone wants to play as a perma-WW tank with tormentor. DC isn't a taunt, but it's an amazing CC without the massive resource drain of silver leashing & chaining everything, or running around stabbing everything with pierce armor/ ransack--it also helps us stack mobs nice and neat for our groups in dungeons and trials to melt them down)

The most efficient way to level Alliance skills lines is the daily bonus BGs--specifically, objective based BGs where we stand a chance of our teams placing 1st or 2nd.

I've noticed a lot of comments from PVPers who are happy DM queue is returning and mocking PVErs with the equivalent of 'git gud', or, if you're not a real PVPer, and don't want to PVP, GTFO. The fact is: many PVErs DON'T want to be in PVP areas to begin with-- We HAVE to be for 2 out of 3 battle roles, and during events, because otherwise needed skills are locked away, and we can't get event rewards--which AREN'T just for PVP events-- they're quarterly. We could be collecting fragments for MONTHS, only to get screwed on the final piece we need because yet again, ZOS is forcing us into IC instead of letting us go to Cyrodil, or converting all BGs to DM.

--BTW ZOS-- don't think I didn't notice the dates of the open ended BG experiment will most likely coicide with the next event and possibly the one after. If tickets are PVP, and tied to IC or BGs, you've effectively given your PVE players no way to avoid feeding trolls.

Look: I get PVP DM fans are happy the DM Queue is returning. Honestly, I'm happy for you. You deserve to have your DM queue back. I know this was something the death squads have been wanting for quite a while. There's just no good reason why ZOS chose to REMOVE the other battle modes as well.

Getting trolled by DM fans teabagging dead PVErs who just want to get Warhorn/Barrier, or event tickets doesn't encourage us to play PVP. It reminds us of all the reasons we HATE IT. Being taunted to 'git gud' at a game mode we despise and are FORCED to play to be effective in PVE as tanks and healers doesn't encourage us either.

I expect to die in PVP. Not all my characters are geared for it, and I hate it, so why bother wasting materials golding out new sets when I'm just there for Warhonr/Barrier, and event tickets? Why bother with the expense of re-speccing my entire character's attribute points, skill points, and CP just so that the 15min I spend in PVP that day won't suck *quite* as badly-- while I've effectively gimped myself for the play-style I actually enjoy and spend the most time with? I'm okay with dying--I try not to, and I go down swinging as best I can--but if someone good at & geared for PVP turns me into little gibblets, so be it.

What I can't stand is the constant teabagging from some BG teams, and the troll behavior. If it wasn't for the teababbing trolls and the teams who treat every BG like DM, PVP in BGs is actually kinda fun. My preference is the objective games, but even DM isn't too awful if no one's being a trolling, teabagging, toxic bully. Those players spoil it for the rest of us-- and now ZOS has effectively given them open season.

I won't be playing BGs for the duration of their experiment. When at all possible, I prefer not to feed the trolls.

Oh comon PvE'ers have 2 Midyear Mayhem with double ap plus war torte to level up the skill line very quickly.They dont really need Bg's for it.

wolfie1.0.

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

GuildedLilly wrote: »

One aspect I think hasn't been discussed yet on this thread is PVErs who want to tank or heal MUST do PVP to unlock Warhorn, Barrier, and to a lesser extent caltrops for additional tank CC (I don't hate dark convergence for this reason. Tanks have been begging for an aoe taunt for YEARS-- and not everyone wants to play as a perma-WW tank with tormentor. DC isn't a taunt, but it's an amazing CC without the massive resource drain of silver leashing & chaining everything, or running around stabbing everything with pierce armor/ ransack--it also helps us stack mobs nice and neat for our groups in dungeons and trials to melt them down)

The most efficient way to level Alliance skills lines is the daily bonus BGs--specifically, objective based BGs where we stand a chance of our teams placing 1st or 2nd.

I've noticed a lot of comments from PVPers who are happy DM queue is returning and mocking PVErs with the equivalent of 'git gud', or, if you're not a real PVPer, and don't want to PVP, GTFO. The fact is: many PVErs DON'T want to be in PVP areas to begin with-- We HAVE to be for 2 out of 3 battle roles, and during events, because otherwise needed skills are locked away, and we can't get event rewards--which AREN'T just for PVP events-- they're quarterly. We could be collecting fragments for MONTHS, only to get screwed on the final piece we need because yet again, ZOS is forcing us into IC instead of letting us go to Cyrodil, or converting all BGs to DM.

--BTW ZOS-- don't think I didn't notice the dates of the open ended BG experiment will most likely coicide with the next event and possibly the one after. If tickets are PVP, and tied to IC or BGs, you've effectively given your PVE players no way to avoid feeding trolls.

Look: I get PVP DM fans are happy the DM Queue is returning. Honestly, I'm happy for you. You deserve to have your DM queue back. I know this was something the death squads have been wanting for quite a while. There's just no good reason why ZOS chose to REMOVE the other battle modes as well.

Getting trolled by DM fans teabagging dead PVErs who just want to get Warhorn/Barrier, or event tickets doesn't encourage us to play PVP. It reminds us of all the reasons we HATE IT. Being taunted to 'git gud' at a game mode we despise and are FORCED to play to be effective in PVE as tanks and healers doesn't encourage us either.

I expect to die in PVP. Not all my characters are geared for it, and I hate it, so why bother wasting materials golding out new sets when I'm just there for Warhonr/Barrier, and event tickets? Why bother with the expense of re-speccing my entire character's attribute points, skill points, and CP just so that the 15min I spend in PVP that day won't suck *quite* as badly-- while I've effectively gimped myself for the play-style I actually enjoy and spend the most time with? I'm okay with dying--I try not to, and I go down swinging as best I can--but if someone good at & geared for PVP turns me into little gibblets, so be it.

What I can't stand is the constant teabagging from some BG teams, and the troll behavior. If it wasn't for the teababbing trolls and the teams who treat every BG like DM, PVP in BGs is actually kinda fun. My preference is the objective games, but even DM isn't too awful if no one's being a trolling, teabagging, toxic bully. Those players spoil it for the rest of us-- and now ZOS has effectively given them open season.

I won't be playing BGs for the duration of their experiment. When at all possible, I prefer not to feed the trolls.

Oh comon PvE'ers have 2 Midyear Mayhem with double ap plus war torte to level up the skill line very quickly.They dont really need Bg's for it.

And PVPers that like Deathmatch game mode had it in a rotation of game modes that they could play. they ALSO could go run around in Cryo and IC looking for fights to get their kills.

RedTalon

Thanks for the heads up and letting me know to do dungeons for at-least a week if not more been trying to avoid doing those all the time now that cp cap is gone oh well, when choice comes back or at-least random stufff, if it does, will start qing foir matches outsde of daily stuff, not a big fan of kill kill metas since they dont take much thought my meta is basically deigned to avoid being killed by those metas so dont have much damage output and people always threaten to report me for just soaking damage in deathmatches. so dont play them if ?I can avoid it.

Have a templar to level and power through somethings might just do that during this pointless test you guys know people just want choices in matches its not that hard to figure out,

Just my thoughts on the matter and such, hope didnt offend anyone. Sorry foi errors and typos tired.

wolfie1.0.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

what about all of the related achievements for the other modes? its going to annoy a lot of us that we can't progress those anymore in any fashion because the modes won't exist.... and i need my dye's

@ZOS_GinaBruno

GuildedLilly

a thousand violins are playing as pve players have to spend 5 minutes in pvp areas 20 times a year; as opposed to the lucky pvp players that zos has been catering to for years, since they never had to do any pve related content. How I pity them; for they should never have to make an effort to try and prepare to face the challenges of cyrodiil and the imperial city; how dare these vile pvp enjoyers not stand in walls of element and orbs paths while not attacking these poor 20k health pve players who have yet to slot a self heal on their bar at cp 1k+. It is also truly mindblowing that zenimax allows some of these same pvp players to enter dungeons in their pvp gears; another harassment that pve players have to put up with.

seriously you could have leveled assault & support to 10 twice by zergsurfing in cyro with a few crossheals in the time you took to write all of this

Thank you for proving EXACTLY why ZOS's DM only BG queue feeds the trolls.

Also-- you're dead wrong on the time it takes you to level alliance skill lines zerg surfing in Cyrodil. Or perhaps you're simply the world's slowest typist. I don't mind Cyrodil-- in fact, most PVErs I know would be happy if ZOS just let us do Cyrodil objectives during the PVP events. Instead-- they force feed us to toxic cretins. I also always slot self heals since I play tanks and healers-- doesn't do much good against stealthed gankblade kills or spammed stampede and dizzying swing CC combo from flank until death. You're also severely underestimating PVErs--we don't expect you to stand in stupid. We simply can't fight what we can't see. Teabagging trolls doing victory twerks on our corpses when they ganked us to death from stealth and flanked CC spams without us being able to fight back has zero to do with anything you just described.

PVP geared players in dungeons aren't a problem for me, as long as they pull their weight-- and don't wreck the tank's carefully stacked mobs with dragon leap. On the other hand, pulling your head out of your nether regions appears to be a real problem for you.