Prior to this change, objective players were arguing for the current system because "the BG pop is too small" when DM players were asking for a DM only queue. Well, this is what you get now. DM is a better mode with more dedicated BG players interested in playing it, so using the same objective player logic, we can't have an objective queue because "the BG pop is too small."
By the way, you don't have any options with the current system anyway. The gamemodes are random, there is no choice.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »
The reality is, the folks who prefer death match have had to deal with months of being able to play their preferred game mode 20% of the time at best. (And based on some data gathered by a few players, perhaps it has somehow worked out to significantly less than 20%). ZOS is throwing death match players of bone, and letting them play their preferred mode for awhile. Short of a complete rework of the queue system, I think this is a fair, quick, and temporary solution for a significant portion of the battlegrounds population that has been seriously underserved for an extended period of time.
wtlonewolf20 wrote: »
And PVPers that like Deathmatch game mode had it in a rotation of game modes that they could play. they ALSO could go run around in Cryo and IC looking for fights to get their kills.
Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »
If you would have read my other comments on this thread you would know I am against this DM only thing,but I dont think PvE'ers have to be taken into consideration in this matter because Bgs are PvP and people have tons of options to lvl up alliance war skill line in other ways than Bg's.
Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »
If you would have read my other comments on this thread you would know I am against this DM only thing,but I dont think PvE'ers have to be taken into consideration in this matter because Bgs are PvP and people have tons of options to lvl up alliance war skill line in other ways than Bg's.
Ehh, did we have it in a true/fair rotation though?
There was a reason that DM mode came up a lot in the random queue prior to removing the individual mode queues. Because more players would individually queue for DM and the random queue would fill holes. More players did DM which made DM occur more in the random.
Now, there are 5 gamemodes that the random queue chooses from, and only 1 of them is DM. The rest are all objective based.
So they took a player base that apparently prefered DM modes, to the point that they appeared far more often than the 4 other modes, and they forced that player base into a queue that heavily favored non DM modes, with only a 20% chance to get a non objective game.
So no, DM is not in the rotation fairly. Now, if they weighted Deathmatch at 50% and the other game modes at 16 each%, then maybe it would be fair. Giving DM a 50% chance to show and objective a 50% chance to show.
Or just add in 3 new DM variations. Something to even the chances of getting actual DM modes and objective modes.
Because right now, it just isn't working. And the objective modes are mostly nonsense be design.
If pvers have no word to say concerning BG, then WHY does PVP rules everything happening in PVE ?
Pvp are not happy so they are deciding that we pvers have nothing to do in BG
No one can even imagine that some of us pvers simply enjoy doing those little match pvp ? Its different from cyro and IC. Its the place where i can learn way more than in cyro. I dont need to be number one to enjoy it. And yes i was loving Chaos, relics as i already said.
I also did enjoy DM, a lot, i could progress, BUT only when i was not facing those bulldozer killers in a premade team. When facing those i could only progress my number of deaths.
Now, they closed the door. Reading the comments here, i feel more like Elitist killers will be now deciding all.
And actually, near to my 70, i am raging against that decision. ESO is creating a wall between the eso community, allowing elitist from all side to reign on the game, be in PVE or PVP. i just wonder if ESO is still ESO
So the issue is people playing deathmatch in other game modes?
And the solution is just to remove all other game modes?
If people treat other game modes as death match, the ones that DO play objectives win the game.
I really don't see how this is an issue.
And even if it is, this is the worst possible solution.
You guys are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing those of us who like to play objectives, even though we did no wrong in this scenario.
Just feels so bad to be treated like this.
It's fairly easy to see what this test is intending to do.
Zos is seeing that a lot of players are ignoring objectives and playing DM in every mode. Which leads to the hypothesis that more players want DM than they want the objective modes. So they are removing all objective modes to determine if the player loss with the removal of the modes is significant.
So likely, this test provides one of three scenarios:
1) A small amount of players stop playing the game mode, but nothing significant for concern.
This would likely lead them to just permantently removing the objective modes because the effort to improve them or maintain them just wouldn't be worth it.
2) An increase in players, due to players returning to play DM who disliked the frequency of objective modes, or objective modes altogether.
Likely would result in the same as 1.
3) A substantial decrease in player count.
This would likely lead them to adding back in the game modes but adjusting the queues in some way to provide non objective players a better avenue than a 20% chance at getting the only game mode they want.
Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »
Oh comon PvE'ers have 2 Midyear Mayhem with double ap plus war torte to level up the skill line very quickly.They dont really need Bg's for it.
So likely, this test provides one of three scenarios:
1) A small amount of players stop playing the game mode, but nothing significant for concern.
This would likely lead them to just permantently removing the objective modes because the effort to improve them or maintain them just wouldn't be worth it.
2) An increase in players, due to players returning to play DM who disliked the frequency of objective modes, or objective modes altogether.
Likely would result in the same as 1.
3) A substantial decrease in player count.
This would likely lead them to adding back in the game modes but adjusting the queues in some way to provide non objective players a better avenue than a 20% chance at getting the only game mode they want.
People still trying to convince PvP players that capture the flag takes strategy... please stop.
WolfStar07 wrote: »
Unfortunately, it cannot take into account the people who were already turned away by players treating every game like DM. That is valid data as well.
So the issue is people playing deathmatch in other game modes?
And the solution is just to remove all other game modes?
If people treat other game modes as death match, the ones that DO play objectives win the game.
I really don't see how this is an issue.
And even if it is, this is the worst possible solution.
You guys are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing those of us who like to play objectives, even though we did no wrong in this scenario.
Just feels so bad to be treated like this.
Franchise408 wrote: »
People still trying to convince PVP players that capture the flag doesn't take strategy... please stop.
It's fairly easy to see what this test is intending to do.
Zos is seeing that a lot of players are ignoring objectives and playing DM in every mode. Which leads to the hypothesis that more players want DM than they want the objective modes. So they are removing all objective modes to determine if the player loss with the removal of the modes is significant.
So likely, this test provides one of three scenarios:
1) A small amount of players stop playing the game mode, but nothing significant for concern.
This would likely lead them to just permantently removing the objective modes because the effort to improve them or maintain them just wouldn't be worth it.
2) An increase in players, due to players returning to play DM who disliked the frequency of objective modes, or objective modes altogether.
Likely would result in the same as 1.
3) A substantial decrease in player count.
This would likely lead them to adding back in the game modes but adjusting the queues in some way to provide non objective players a better avenue than a 20% chance at getting the only game mode they want.
When players actually demonstrate their strategy in capture the flag and it turns out to simply be respawning endlessly.
GuildedLilly wrote: »I'm finding it rather comical when certain PVPers in this thread are acting like PVErs should have no say in how we're able to level and access skill lines that ZOS chose to lock behind the Alliance War (while allowing BGs to level Alliance war), or that PVErs shouldn't have a say in what happens in PVP zones period--especially considering complaints from the PVP community are CONSTANTLY affecting PVE players in PVE zones.
*Earthgore was nerfed into the ground because of PVP
*Dragonknight Wings were killed because of PVP
*Breath of Life was nerfed because of PVP
*Proximity Detonation was nerfed because of PVP
*Sorc shield/ward skills were nerfed because of PVP
...and that's just off the top of my head.
PVPers upset with how they died, or upset with NOT causing other players to die fast enough for their egos cause no end of grief for PVE players. Instead of giving sets & skills separate or dampened effects in PVP zones like they do with chain, gate, and healing skills, ZOS took the complaints from a few whiny players and gankblades upset that they got killed with their own reflected arrows, and wreck sets & skills that were fabulous in vet dungeons and trials because a few players or guilds were exploiting them in PVP--or they were too effective at countering PVPers who got used to easy kills with no risk. I LOVED popping DK wings to take out stealthed NBs sniping my team from inaccessible areas.
Stop pretending that what happens in PVP doesn't effect PVE, and is none of our business. The day ZOS brings Warhorn, Barrier, Rapid Maneuvers, Major Gallop, Magicka Detonation, and Caltrops (the only readily accessible aoe CC skill available to Templars) out from behind the Alliance War lock, and the moment they stop screwing with set effects and skills that affect PVE to appease PVPers, is the day I will acknowledge you have a point. Until then--everything that happens in PVP affects us. PVErs have no choice but to participate in PVP to some extent. We should have a voice in it, and your opinion is NOT the only one that matters.
You wanted the DM BG queue back? Congrats, you got it.
There is no reason why Objective BG queues needed to be removed.
There is no reason why ZOS continues to cater to greifers when it comes to PVP events requiring IC (not Cyrodil), or the elimination of all objective BG match queues in favor of forcing all players into DM BG matches only....other that for whatever reason, ZOS has decided it likes feeding trolls.
It's just one more insult in a loooooong line of ways in which a small, toxic fraction of the already small PVP community manages to screw over the majority of players with ZOS's full complicity and support.
Trying to invalidate a game mode due to the met
I agree there should be two seperate ques. Deathmatch que and then the objective game modes.
If they ever wanted to redesign objective modes to be more PvP focused that'd be great to rope PvPers back in. But I dont think its worth it.
If folks arent aware, the game has steered to supply content for casual gamers since around Morrowind, and its done it very very well. Its a phenomenal game for new players coming in or casual players overall.
A lot of people seem to miss the PvP crowd is not amongst this market. So the Battlegrounds have caused a conflict. Objective game modes are not PvP friendly. If you *really* wanted to win most of the objective modes, you would just make full 100% tank characters. You could have a team of 4 of them, and you'd be widely successful in every game mode. You can do no damage, pay no attention to whats coming, and just tank and heal yourself and walk towards the objective.
This is why it's not really PvP friendly. Real 'tank' players in PvP are generally filling a supportive role in their build. But a bold majority of tanks are just building their builds around staying alive and nothing else. And many still fail to do it.
All in all, this thread is a demonstration of 2 markets. PvP players that are still around and have played the game. The other is a casual market - and I dont say that in a negative tone. But what they want out of their gameplay experience is completely different. 2 ques will be the solution ultimately.
On a side note, I skimmed and saw this: "*Earthgore was nerfed into the ground because of PVP"
Earthgore was broken by a long shot and it wasnt even close. If you need a 2 piece set that will AOE burst heal your party to full constantly whenever youre slipping youre not even interested in trying in your video game. You actively want every mistake covered. Unfortunately, this is the market thats been put together here.
This test will see a dip on PC marketbase when New World drops. A lot of the PvP community is fed up trying to fight against this mindset.
Moving forward, please discussion respectful and keep the Community Rules in mind as well.Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
GuildedLilly wrote: »I'm finding it rather comical when certain PVPers in this thread are acting like PVErs should have no say in how we're able to level and access skill lines that ZOS chose to lock behind the Alliance War (while allowing BGs to level Alliance war), or that PVErs shouldn't have a say in what happens in PVP zones period--especially considering complaints from the PVP community are CONSTANTLY affecting PVE players in PVE zones.
*Earthgore was nerfed into the ground because of PVP
*Dragonknight Wings were killed because of PVP
*Breath of Life was nerfed because of PVP
*Proximity Detonation was nerfed because of PVP
*Sorc shield/ward skills were nerfed because of PVP
...and that's just off the top of my head.
PVPers upset with how they died, or upset with NOT causing other players to die fast enough for their egos cause no end of grief for PVE players. Instead of giving sets & skills separate or dampened effects in PVP zones like they do with chain, gate, and healing skills, ZOS took the complaints from a few whiny players and gankblades upset that they got killed with their own reflected arrows, and wreck sets & skills that were fabulous in vet dungeons and trials because a few players or guilds were exploiting them in PVP--or they were too effective at countering PVPers who got used to easy kills with no risk. I LOVED popping DK wings to take out stealthed NBs sniping my team from inaccessible areas.
Stop pretending that what happens in PVP doesn't effect PVE, and is none of our business. The day ZOS brings Warhorn, Barrier, Rapid Maneuvers, Major Gallop, Magicka Detonation, and Caltrops (the only readily accessible aoe CC skill available to Templars) out from behind the Alliance War lock, and the moment they stop screwing with set effects and skills that affect PVE to appease PVPers, is the day I will acknowledge you have a point. Until then--everything that happens in PVP affects us. PVErs have no choice but to participate in PVP to some extent. We should have a voice in it, and your opinion is NOT the only one that matters.
You wanted the DM BG queue back? Congrats, you got it.
There is no reason why Objective BG queues needed to be removed.
There is no reason why ZOS continues to cater to greifers when it comes to PVP events requiring IC (not Cyrodil), or the elimination of all objective BG match queues in favor of forcing all players into DM BG matches only....other that for whatever reason, ZOS has decided it likes feeding trolls.
It's just one more insult in a loooooong line of ways in which a small, toxic fraction of the already small PVP community manages to screw over the majority of players with ZOS's full complicity and support.
Baitless version:
The more PvE oriented players worried about now having to do PvP to earn the skills locked behind PvP might want to look at it from the PvPer perspective: we have had to farm dungeons for 7 years now to get BiS gear for PvP builds, and there is no end in sight.
I would also look at the fact that no new PvP content has been added in years (no, a trebuchet emote doesn't count), while PvErs get 4 dungeons and 1-2 trials/arenas each year.
This is the PvPer point of view.
Having a bit more PvP when queueing for a PvP game mode is a very welcome change, with this point of view in mind.
They can add back the objective game modes when PvP isn't actively discouraged in those.