I remade the map - this time, everything is perfect

JJOtterBear

any update on this?

Vylaera

JJOtterBear wrote: »

any update on this?

Yes, we have confirmed that both POIs (wayshrines, dungeons, etc.) can be moved, as well as blobs (the glow that appears when you look at it with your cursor). The map will be seamlessly functional.

Here's two screenshots showing off everyone's favorite fu- uh I mean mess-up, Eastmarch:
Before:

After:


Additionally, the map is being redrawn in higher resolution and quality, we're looking to implement multiple different blob textures for more customization, and possibly adding an optional super-high resolution (8k!) and highly detailed "roleplay map" which shows all of Tamriel's geography for a much more believable in-universe map (i.e. not in the vanilla style, but a map that looks more like an actual map but retains functionality). These are still a work in progress and aren't at sufficient progress or quality to show off as "finished" or "final" just yet.
Although, here's a map I made as a concept of what that roleplay map would look like, just imagine all of Tamriel looks like High Rock does here, and is in higher resolution with more detail:

The blobs would still appear and the zones would be labeled, but the aesthetics of the map would change to properly represent an in-universe geographical map.

We still don't have an estimated release date on the finished "1.0" version, as we both work on it when we get the chance and we also have other projects going on at the same time, plus work schedules to work around, buuuut, if you want to start using this unfinished addon now, Thal has a github page up which is updated when more work is done on it. I really wouldn't recommend it since it's not very functional in this state, but if you're really thirsty for the addon, then this is an option.
https://github.com/Thal-J/AccurateWorldMap

Legoless

Is the add-on really planning to remove the Skuldafn wayshrine? I wouldn't download it if it's going to remove functionality unfortunately.

Ratzkifal

Legoless wrote: »

Is the add-on really planning to remove the Skuldafn wayshrine? I wouldn't download it if it's going to remove functionality unfortunately.

It's probably just removing it from the world map, not the zone map.

Vylaera

Legoless wrote: »

Is the add-on really planning to remove the Skuldafn wayshrine? I wouldn't download it if it's going to remove functionality unfortunately.

I know you already saw the discussion in the discord, but for the sake of everyone else being able to see it, the wayshrine was missing from this image because we weren't sure where to put it. It's going to be put on the Eastmarch border, since in lore scale (x100 game size or some likewise large number), that's where it would be.

Legoless

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Legoless wrote: »

Is the add-on really planning to remove the Skuldafn wayshrine? I wouldn't download it if it's going to remove functionality unfortunately.

I know you already saw the discussion in the discord, but for the sake of everyone else being able to see it, the wayshrine was missing from this image because we weren't sure where to put it. It's going to be put on the Eastmarch border, since in lore scale (x100 game size or some likewise large number), that's where it would be.

Hadn't seen that but this makes a lot of sense, good to know!

WildRaptorX

Really hope they update the map. It looks like it can contain more content too!

Vylaera

Well, it's been a few months and I've been doing other stuff in the mean time because I honestly don't even like ESO anymore (hopefully this year's content will actually be good, but given ZOS' track record over the last few years, I'm not holding my breath on that).

But I decided it was time to stop putting it off, and I finished the map last night.
This is the final version (yeah I know I've said that a few times, but it's real this time), and today I'm going to do the other work necessary to get it working in an addon. No ETA at this time on a release, but I'll update here when we have one.

So here it is:

ZigoSid

I hope they'll remake the map one day, making it more accurate like you did.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

Vylaera

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

There always will be because Stormhold is in Black Marsh, not Morrowind.

Athan1

tfw fans produce better in-game maps than the dev team

Thal_J

posting some addon progress - got all wayshrines moved and lined up correctly. had to move almost all of the eastern tamriel wayshrines one by one, and by hand, which was a pain.



i'm very happy to be working with breaux on this, the worldmap being wrong has annoyed me since launch, but i didn't have the image editing skills required to make a fixed map myself. breaux's attention to detail is amazing, imo it looks like a fixed and higher fidelity version of the vanilla map.

also: we've figured out how to move and add zones on the map, so there's potential there for us to add new zones (like eyevea) to the tamriel map, or adding new areas to the aurbis map.

Vylaera

Arko_Nam_La wrote: »

also: we've figured out how to move and add zones on the map, so there's potential there for us to add new zones (like eyevea) to the tamriel map, or adding new areas to the aurbis map.

Areas like...
Blackreach (which always should have been here because right-clicking out of BR takes you to the Aurbis with no easy way to get back in)
And switching around Artaeum and the Clockwork City because their original placements didn't make any sense. Why would Artaeum, which is one of the Summerset isles, be up by Morrowind, and the Clockwork City, which is in Morrowind, be by Summerset?)

(wip image)

Every asset added by this addon is completely remade from the ground up, using no original vanilla assets. It's a complete rebuild and overhaul and therefore the quality and detail is fourfold greater than the original vanilla assets.

drsalvation

We need this map urgently, it always bothered me that Cyrodiil doesn't show the river all the way down to the sea.

ZigoSid

BroughBreaux wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

There always will be because Stormhold is in Black Marsh, not Morrowind.

Well the problem is that even if the in-game "paper" map is badly done for many areas, the fact that the in-game landscape show a pretty smooth connection in this zone contradict that such a landmass can hide here.

Unlike other areas where sometimes we have mountains that finish the region and separate the areas,where we can imagine wide areas and that the paper map sucks (north of Easthmarch or north-west of stonefalls) , this isn't the case here so I suppose that the old TES maps have been clearly retconned for this particular zone.

RicAlmighty

How would one use this?

M_Volsung

RicAlmighty wrote: »

How would one use this?

It's being made into a mod.

MudcrabAttack

I like how the coastlines lined up better, like tectonic drift is a real thing in Nirn

JJOtterBear

so if this is the final version, that means any new areas introduced will never be added to this, since you seem to have no intention of keeping it updated, making it an extremely temporary map addon to use. and that makes me sad

Vylaera

ZigoSid wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

There always will be because Stormhold is in Black Marsh, not Morrowind.

Well the problem is that even if the in-game "paper" map is badly done for many areas, the fact that the in-game landscape show a pretty smooth connection in this zone contradict that such a landmass can hide here.

Unlike other areas where sometimes we have mountains that finish the region and separate the areas,where we can imagine wide areas and that the paper map sucks (north of Easthmarch or north-west of stonefalls) , this isn't the case here so I suppose that the old TES maps have been clearly retconned for this particular zone.

I've said this probably a dozen times in the past few months, so I'm going to lay it all out one last time and just link back to this comment when someone says that ESO's base game map retconned anything.

Quoting from UESP:
{{Anchor|On Elder Scrolls Online's use of a wolf as Indoril's sigil (06/15/17)

Early in ESO's development, like nine years ago, well before we had any lore-checking processes in place, the wolf got picked for the Indoril banner based on the stylized wolf-head that appeared on Mehra Drora's gorget in TES3. This got promulgated onto some other assets, and it didn't get spotted until ESO: MW was in PTS testing. We're gradually sorting it out, but doing that kind of thing means diverting resources from the next DLC, so corrections don't always happen instantly.
End quote
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:Lawrence_Schick's_Posts

We can infer from this that
1. Alpha development didn't have lore checks in place
2. They're aware of things that are lore breaking but don't fix them because it diverts resources away from the next DLC

#1 is particularly relevant because the base game's map was finalized and being worked on as early as 2009. The base game map was drawn incorrectly, and then used as a basis to build the zones on. The incorrectly drawn map, which I will reiterate was not an intentional design change, rather an error (several errors) made of negligence, should not be taken as a retcon for locations of cities or geography nor for the shapes of shorelines or borders.

I'd like to quickly make an aside point with #2. They don't update the map for this reason. I'm sure internally they're all well aware the map is wrong, but team leads likely won't allocate resources and teams to fix it.

This is a 25 year old franchise, almost 26, with a very defined and iconic map that has had little change over its history. There have been retcons when new mainline games have released, notably the shape of Vvardenfell changed but the rest of the map didn't, the Niben River was given a more defined shape when Oblivion released, and Skyrim got a new coastline that's actually detailed, but the new changes never made any massive retcons such as changing the entire shape of Morrowind as well as its borders, or making Skyrim stretch all the way to the Inner Sea. Or making Hammerfell impede on where Falkreath Hold should be. Or changing where the Imperial City is. Or any other examples of how wrong the map is. The map of Tamriel hasn't actually changed in any meaningful way since 2002, and the only large change in 2002 was Vvardenfell's new shape. The map hasn't changed at all in 20 years.

For reference, here's every official map of Tamriel, starting with Arena and ending with Anthology, which is the most accurate and authoritative map of Tamriel we have to date.


It is abundantly clear that ESO's map is wrong, not a retcon. It is wrong.


To my next point, we can see that even internally at ZOS, they do not have a consistent map.

Many examples of wildly different maps exist that have come directly from ZOS and demonstrates that they don't even have a good grasp on Tamriel's geography themselves, and certainly should not be given the ability to retcon the shape of Tamriel.
Here's a few images that demonstrate this. I don't think I'll need to elaborate any further on this point.

here's the most accurate map they ever released, as a promotional image created in 2014. It is accurately shaped and does not draw borders for the zones, so it could be said they're in the right place here even though it looks like they still aren't.


Here's a crop of the in-game map pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind. Pay particular attention to how they just casually moved the Telvanni peninsula over because their map didn't have proper space for the actual shape of Vvardenfell (because their map is wrong and if they had drawn it correctly, there wouldn't be a need to move things around, making the map even worse than it already was).


Now for the most atrocious map of Morrowind-Skyrim I've ever seen. This speaks for itself, and it speaks volumes.


I hope I've dispelled any doubt that ESO's map is wrong and I will simply link back to this comment when someone wrongly thinks otherwise.

Beardimus

Kudos sir.
Absolutely love this kind of stuff

Vylaera

JJOtterBear wrote: »

so if this is the final version, that means any new areas introduced will never be added to this, since you seem to have no intention of keeping it updated, making it an extremely temporary map addon to use. and that makes me sad

That's not what I meant at all.
It's going to be updated when new content comes out. I meant final as in there won't be any major changes made between now and when the addon is released.

KhajiitLivesMatter

can someone link me the addon?

Vylaera

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

can someone link me the addon?

It's not currently released yet, but we do have an alpha version on github if you want to try it out. It's not fully functional yet as there's still a not-insignificant amount of code work to be done to move the zone mouseover highlights, and their hitboxes also have to be adjusted.
https://github.com/Thal-J/AccurateWorldMap

Jusey1

I honest to god wish someone from ZOS will see this and actually fix their map officially. I always thought their map was just awful and incorrect ever since I started playing in like 2014 or 2015.

Elsonso

.

Jusey1 wrote: »

I honest to god wish someone from ZOS will see this and actually fix their map officially. I always thought their map was just awful and incorrect ever since I started playing in like 2014 or 2015.

Even if they do, Shadowfen now shares a border with Deshaan, and that will never change on their maps. It is confusing, in the context of the game, if they do not touch.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Jusey1 wrote: »

I honest to god wish someone from ZOS will see this and actually fix their map officially. I always thought their map was just awful and incorrect ever since I started playing in like 2014 or 2015.

I remember in a Twitch stream not so long ago where Leamon Tuttle was a visitor, someone asked about if they were going to do anything about the map and its lore inaccuracies and he wasn't aware it had any and said he was going to take a look. Lemon, dear, the Velothi mountains with Blacklight is gone, there are plenty of errors.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

BroughBreaux wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

There always will be because Stormhold is in Black Marsh, not Morrowind.

So how are you able to see storm hold from deshann? Its litterally there... cant be more clear than that

Vylaera

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

There is still a gap between Deeshan and Shadowfen.

There always will be because Stormhold is in Black Marsh, not Morrowind.

So how are you able to see storm hold from deshann? Its litterally there... cant be more clear than that

Because they botched the map
That's the whole point of this.

I'd use more explicit language in place of "botched" but then the fun police would have to edit my comment because the forums for an M-rated game aren't allowed to have bad words