I remade the map - this time, everything is perfect

Ratzkifal

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I'll make a new comment here to amend a mistake made. Dres doesn't own all the land between the Padomaic Ocean and Cyrodiil's border. Hlaalu controls the section of Morrowind along Cyrodiil's border, but Dres still controls most of the portion of Morrowind that Shadowfen was inaccurately placed on.

My points still stand.

This is the point I was going to talk about. Hlaalu controls the section along Cyrodiil's border. And isn't that a big issue? Narsis is the capital of House Hlaalu. You can't make good Hlaalu content without diving into Hlaalu politics, which have been completely ignored by the base game.
So all you are left is with, as you said, things like Rorikstead - one of the most boring places of Skyrim that wasn't relevant enough to give it a proper story, and lots of land to explore, which I have nothing against, but do keep in mind that this is the same content that's being taken away from the area surrounding Helstrom. So on that front it would be a neutral transaction -taking away here and giving in equal measure there. Only that I think that this would cause the area around Helstrom to be crammed and not get room to breathe anymore. It would feel like the zone DLCs where every single area is main story relevant because there just isn't enough space for it to be any other way.

If it was all Dres lands then it would be a different story. Now it's only some of it. I'd rather have the peninsular on the east coast expanded for the Dres to have more space. To me, any area we haven't been to still isn't set in stone when it comes to map size or shape so this would be doable - accuracy be damned, it would be a better experience that way.

jowv

Brilliant work - well done! I must admit, I'd always thought ESO/ZOS had got the North East map section wrong, and this shows how wrong it is really well.

fred4

I thought this would be a joke post with only Cyrodiil on the map or something along those lines. Guess I was wrong.

Ratzkifal

@BroughBreaux Btw, what are you using to make those maps? It's really difficult for me to explain it using just words to show you what I mean.
You are right about the angle that Helstrom isn't actually north-east like I said but east-north-east, but I still disagree with you having placed Helstrom right on your mockup map.

Here you placed it right (when using Gideon as a reference)


Here you placed it wrong (when using Gideon as a reference).


I invite you to draw that lake into the first map above and you'll see that it won't look like the lake you drew on the second map above. This is mainly due to that river connecting the lake and the ocean being too short, which you can even see if you put your finger to scale on the original overlay you used and then compare that to the one you drew. And it has to look like that because you moved Shadowfen when only Stormhaven (and Narsis) if anything needs to be moved, which makes you run out of space.
I'd say Stormhaven is a zone error more than a map error.

Edit: I want to make it clear that it's a rather small difference, so you are definitely more accurate in your placement of Helstrom than ZOS has been with a lot of these cities and I think that is probably the core of the issue of both the thread and this disagreement as I am basing my standpoint on the relative direction from Gideon even though ZOS probably hasn't put Gideon in the right spot either...

tim77

votan73 wrote: »

PS: Are you aware of https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3023-HighlyDetailedWorldMap.html ?

at the same time:

votan73's diary wrote: »

destroy someones dream - check

Ratzkifal

tim77 wrote: »

votan73 wrote: »

PS: Are you aware of https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3023-HighlyDetailedWorldMap.html ?

at the same time:

votan73's diary wrote: »

destroy someones dream - check

Too bad this addon doesn't fix anything about the map itself being bad. Honestly the addon's map is even worse than the one we have ingame, aside from the higher details.

Vylaera

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@BroughBreaux Btw, what are you using to make those maps? It's really difficult for me to explain it using just words to show you what I mean.

Paint.NET (free program and easy to use with a simple workflow with all the tools I need for these kinds of edits.)

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You are right about the angle that Helstrom isn't actually north-east like I said but east-north-east, but I still disagree with you having placed Helstrom right on your mockup map.

Here you placed it right (when using Gideon as a reference)
[cut out links]
I invite you to draw that lake into the first map above and you'll see that it won't look like the lake you drew on the second map above. This is mainly due to that river connecting the lake and the ocean being too short, which you can even see if you put your finger to scale on the original overlay you used and then compare that to the one you drew. And it has to look like that because you moved Shadowfen when only Stormhaven (and Narsis) if anything needs to be moved, which makes you run out of space.

I took blackmarsh on both the Anthology map and PGE3 map and stretched them out to fit the dimensions of the ESO map as best as I could, and it looks like ZOS was more accurate than I was in placing Gideon. my mistake. But in any case, the lake lines up right still and, sure, Anthology places Helstrom pretty high, where it would be in Shadowfen like you said, but PGE3 places it lower, much closer to where I placed it on my map.


So sure, I placed it lower, but that's not really that big of an issue. If moving Narsis is fine, then so is moving Helstrom. I'll also reiterate that the lakes in Black Marsh have all been turned into wetland such as the example I gave in Murkmire. The problem I had was that ZOS moved a city into an entire other province and cut out the land that Hlaalu and Dres own to facilitate that. And we both know that it was bad map design and not a purposeful change. If it was purposeful change then we'd just have to accept the other problems with the map as retcons such as Blacklight not existing and just shrug our shoulders.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I'd say Stormhaven is a zone error more than a map error.

Stormhaven? I think you mean Stormhold. If so, then I'd agree, though I'd have changed the name of the zone. North Shadowfen should have been half Hlaalu and half Dres, with Stormhold in the center of the map with more Argonain stuff as you get closer to the border. The zone would be reminiscent of Bal Foyen - lots of argonians, lots of farms, but in morrowind and obviously controlled by Morrowind and Dunmer. lean in more on the slavery theme since that's Dres' bread and butter. Have conflicts with progressive Hlaalu that don't like slavery. But like I said, I seriously doubt that ZOS will actually redo the base game zones, and even if they did, they'd probably double down on their mistakes rather than rectify them. Like you said the other day when you mentioned it on stream, the map being atrocious isn't even a known issue, at least not for the community people.

And since we're on that topic, I would love at least some kind of confirmation that ZOS knows about the map because it's been a thing the community has talked about for 7 years and it hasn't even been given as much as a "we're looking into it".

Ratzkifal

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@BroughBreaux Btw, what are you using to make those maps? It's really difficult for me to explain it using just words to show you what I mean.

Paint.NET (free program and easy to use with a simple workflow with all the tools I need for these kinds of edits.)

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You are right about the angle that Helstrom isn't actually north-east like I said but east-north-east, but I still disagree with you having placed Helstrom right on your mockup map.

Here you placed it right (when using Gideon as a reference)
[cut out links]
I invite you to draw that lake into the first map above and you'll see that it won't look like the lake you drew on the second map above. This is mainly due to that river connecting the lake and the ocean being too short, which you can even see if you put your finger to scale on the original overlay you used and then compare that to the one you drew. And it has to look like that because you moved Shadowfen when only Stormhaven (and Narsis) if anything needs to be moved, which makes you run out of space.

I took blackmarsh on both the Anthology map and PGE3 map and stretched them out to fit the dimensions of the ESO map as best as I could, and it looks like ZOS was more accurate than I was in placing Gideon. my mistake. But in any case, the lake lines up right still and, sure, Anthology places Helstrom pretty high, where it would be in Shadowfen like you said, but PGE3 places it lower, much closer to where I placed it on my map.

So sure, I placed it lower, but that's not really that big of an issue. If moving Narsis is fine, then so is moving Helstrom. I'll also reiterate that the lakes in Black Marsh have all been turned into wetland such as the example I gave in Murkmire. The problem I had was that ZOS moved a city into an entire other province and cut out the land that Hlaalu and Dres own to facilitate that. And we both know that it was bad map design and not a purposeful change. If it was purposeful change then we'd just have to accept the other problems with the map as retcons such as Blacklight not existing and just shrug our shoulders.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I'd say Stormhaven is a zone error more than a map error.

Stormhaven? I think you mean Stormhold. If so, then I'd agree, though I'd have changed the name of the zone. North Shadowfen should have been half Hlaalu and half Dres, with Stormhold in the center of the map with more Argonain stuff as you get closer to the border. The zone would be reminiscent of Bal Foyen - lots of argonians, lots of farms, but in morrowind and obviously controlled by Morrowind and Dunmer. lean in more on the slavery theme since that's Dres' bread and butter. Have conflicts with progressive Hlaalu that don't like slavery. But like I said, I seriously doubt that ZOS will actually redo the base game zones, and even if they did, they'd probably double down on their mistakes rather than rectify them. Like you said the other day when you mentioned it on stream, the map being atrocious isn't even a known issue, at least not for the community people.

And since we're on that topic, I would love at least some kind of confirmation that ZOS knows about the map because it's been a thing the community has talked about for 7 years and it hasn't even been given as much as a "we're looking into it".

Moving Narsis was not fine either, but two wrongs doesn't make a right. That's my take on it.
It's honestly not that big of a deal, even if I don't like it. There is still room for a chapter in Blackmarsh, even if it probably won't meet my expecations.
If Shadowfen must be moved south, I probably would also move Deshaan south along with it. It's easier to make up stuff between Stonefalls and Deshaan than between Deshaan and Shadowfen, without significant thematic overlap with the inevitable Dres content anyway. At least I think so.

And yes, I meant Stormhold. I keep mixing those two names up. It's a miracle it hasn't happened sooner. There is even a letter ingame where it says "Stormwind". It's not entirely clear if that's meant to be a WoW easter egg or if they got those mixed up as well

ZOS said they will think about redoing base game zones once the blank spots of the map have been filled. It should be noted that while Rich is the creative director and could probably decide for this to happen on his own, his job probably doesn't involve this sort of micromanagement, so there is probably a specialist among the devs responsible for making the zone maps, and like I said, he was distracted by his stream so the chances of him forgetting again during the course of the stream are high.

Vylaera

I have an update: Map is finalized and Code Man is doing Code.

No idea on a release, but I do have a new image to post.
Only fixed a few minor things here, the most notably, the bad edit around summerset's coastline that carried over from the original rough edit was fixed and tiled in better.


I also have plans to fix the Aurbis map, but will wait until the Deadlands DLC is out to make it in case the Aurbis map changes between its version on PTS (pictured) and the final version on Live.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

The result are awsome
But i dont think that shadowfen should be moved south. We can see stormhold over the wall from deshan and Muth Gnaar over the wall from shadowfen.

As for it being hlaalu and dres land, there is what 700-800 years between eso and arena? Just look at the real world borders 700 years ago, most of the countries we have today didnt exist yet, and the one that did exist didt have the exact same border as today. So in the 700 hundread years between eso and arena morrowind will expand south, most likely by some dres to punish argonian to ever think they were their equal or something. The eso stormhold could be destroyed in the process and rebuilded south near the new border.
And in 700 years a lot of thing can happen or be built that would turn nothern shadowfen in farmland rather than wetland


I personnaly dont think anylore from arena should be considered canon over lore from other games as lots of it has been retconed already for exemple imperial didnt exist

JobooAGS

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

The result are awsome
But i dont think that shadowfen should be moved south. We can see stormhold over the wall from deshan and Muth Gnaar over the wall from shadowfen.

As for it being hlaalu and dres land, there is what 700-800 years between eso and arena? Just look at the real world borders 700 years ago, most of the countries we have today didnt exist yet, and the one that did exist didt have the exact same border as today. So in the 700 hundread years between eso and arena morrowind will expand south, most likely by some dres to punish argonian to ever think they were their equal or something. The eso stormhold could be destroyed in the process and rebuilded south near the new border.
And in 700 years a lot of thing can happen or be built that would turn nothern shadowfen in farmland rather than wetland


I personnaly dont think anylore from arena should be considered canon over lore from other games as lots of it has been retconed already for exemple imperial didnt exist

Kinda funny how the in game description states that shadowfen is blackmarsh and not morrowind. It is safe to say that zos *** up pretty badly and to fix it would require an overhaul of the game

JJOtterBear

OP if you manage to make this into an addon, I will definitely use it!

Ratzkifal

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

The result are awsome
But i dont think that shadowfen should be moved south. We can see stormhold over the wall from deshan and Muth Gnaar over the wall from shadowfen.

As for it being hlaalu and dres land, there is what 700-800 years between eso and arena? Just look at the real world borders 700 years ago, most of the countries we have today didnt exist yet, and the one that did exist didt have the exact same border as today. So in the 700 hundread years between eso and arena morrowind will expand south, most likely by some dres to punish argonian to ever think they were their equal or something. The eso stormhold could be destroyed in the process and rebuilded south near the new border.
And in 700 years a lot of thing can happen or be built that would turn nothern shadowfen in farmland rather than wetland


I personnaly dont think anylore from arena should be considered canon over lore from other games as lots of it has been retconed already for exemple imperial didnt exist

That's also the only thing I don't like about it. Ideally I would love if the future addon came with an option to have Shadowfen south or north according to preference, but that is probably a lot of work.
Still, as was discussed before, if Shadowfen is indeed Blackmarsh, then it was moved too far north. But if Stormhold is split between Morrowind and Blackmarsh, then Stormhold is too far north in the Shadowfen zone. Someone somewhere made a mistake and now it's hard to pin the blame to just one thing.

Aliyavana

Ratzkifal wrote: »

tim77 wrote: »

votan73 wrote: »

PS: Are you aware of https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3023-HighlyDetailedWorldMap.html ?

at the same time:

votan73's diary wrote: »

destroy someones dream - check

Too bad this addon doesn't fix anything about the map itself being bad. Honestly the addon's map is even worse than the one we have ingame, aside from the higher details.

Looks like it removes the land that is around where jehanna is supposed to be, so i dont think it solves the issue. I do appreciate the effort

Aliyavana

Additionally, the map keeps the horrid position of skuldafin, which swallows up blacklight.

Vylaera

Ratzkifal wrote: »

That's also the only thing I don't like about it. Ideally I would love if the future addon came with an option to have Shadowfen south or north according to preference, but that is probably a lot of work.

Basically we would have to keep 2 versions of the addon up to date simultaneously, and both me and the coder agree on Stormhold being moved south and therefore Shadowfen moved south with it. Unless any new lore comes out that says ESO's Stormhold is not the same Stormhold we see in the Third Era, then I personally think it makes the most sense to move Shadowfen south into Black Marsh where it's supposed to be.

But another question begs: what in oblivion is an Ayleid ruin doing in Morrowind? To date, we've never seen any Ayleids in Morrowind, and establishing a city in Morrowind would be annexation, and would provoke war with the Chimer. No such war ever occurred, and we all know how territorial and prideful the Chimer/Dunmer were/are.

Given everything, I think it has to be the case that shadowfen being where it is, is a fluke, just as The Rift and Eastmarch eclipsing the Veloithis, Redoran's territory, and the city of Blacklight

Ratzkifal

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

That's also the only thing I don't like about it. Ideally I would love if the future addon came with an option to have Shadowfen south or north according to preference, but that is probably a lot of work.

[...]

But another question begs: what in oblivion is an Ayleid ruin doing in Morrowind? To date, we've never seen any Ayleids in Morrowind, and establishing a city in Morrowind would be annexation, and would provoke war with the Chimer. No such war ever occurred, and we all know how territorial and prideful the Chimer/Dunmer were/are.

Given everything, I think it has to be the case that shadowfen being where it is, is a fluke, just as The Rift and Eastmarch eclipsing the Veloithis, Redoran's territory, and the city of Blacklight

There is lore on the Ayleids, specifically the Barsaebic Ayleids, being in Blackmarsh. That lore was added by ESO and there isn't much else to it other than them being big on Necromancy and calling themselves the "Fenlords", so make of it what you will.
But I feel it makes much more sense than the Ayleid ruins in Auridon and the complete lack of Direnni ruins in Highrock considering it's not that hard to get into the Blackmarsh borderlands from Cyrodiil.

As for the conflict with the Chimer, I am pretty sure the Ayleids were there before the Chimer arrived and then the Chimer kicked them out or the fall of the Ayleids caused them to lose control in that area, allowing for the Chimer to move in, possibly even moving in after becoming Dunmer - who knows.

Vylaera

Ratzkifal wrote: »

There is lore on the Ayleids, specifically the Barsaebic Ayleids, being in Blackmarsh.

In Black Marsh

Ratzkifal wrote: »

As for the conflict with the Chimer, I am pretty sure the Ayleids were there before the Chimer arrived and then the Chimer kicked them out or the fall of the Ayleids caused them to lose control in that area, allowing for the Chimer to move in, possibly even moving in after becoming Dunmer - who knows.

"The history of the Chimer begins with the Velothi dissident movement in the Summerset Isle. Some sources seem to differ on when exactly this happened. Some say it took place in the Late Middle Merethic Era,[6] and others trace it back to the Dawn Era.[8] One source says it took place before the shattering of Lorkhan,[9] and another says that it was after Topal the Pilot and others had explored mainland Tamriel."

"Trinimac, strongest of the Altmeri ancestor spirits, fought enemies of Altmeri society both without and within. As such, Trinimac and his followers became engaged in trying to halt the Velothi dissident movement.[8] Boethiah, the "Devourer of Trinimac",[11] took exception to the "lies" Trinimac had been spreading about Lorkhan.[5] He tricked Trinimac, ate him, assumed his form, and the dung he excreted became Malacath."
From UESP

"The Ayleids began as groups of Mer who left the Summerset Isles to create splinter cultures in central and southwest Tamriel. [20] The first left in the Middle Merethic Era, after the area had been charted by Topal the Pilot and others,[17][21][22] In some cases, they left specifically to evade the strictures of Aldmeri regulation, which forbade (among many other things) the worship of Daedra."
From UESP

So, we know that the Velothi Exodus coincides with the creation of Malacath and the Orsimer, which sources conflict on being either in the Dawn Era or early Merethic. "On the True Nature of Orcs" which is the fundamental text for Orc lore, puts the timeframe in the Dawn Era. "The Monomyth" which is another foundational text used as a baseline for all ES lore, puts the exodus before Lorkhan was killed at Convention. The Ayleids left Alinor in the middle Merethic era. I think it's safe to say that the Chimer had established their borders before the Ayleids established theirs. It's difficult to make a definitive claim though, as there are conflicting sources on when the Velothi exodus occured. Regardless, the city wouldn't have been created, lived in, and abandoned before the Chimer took control of Resdayn.

It's also worth noting that the Ayleids left Alinor in waves, which, making an unfounded assumption, means that the first wave was the wave that founded the cities in Cyrodiil, and one of the latter waves founded those in Black Marsh.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

possibly even moving in after becoming Dunmer - who knows.

We do know that Lord Indoril Nerevar was alive after the fall of the Ayleid Empire, as indicated by Nerevar's attendance at the Coronation of Emperor Gorieus. Nerevar is killed by the Tribunal dies at the end of the War of the First Council, which was when the Chimer Became Dunmer, so the Ayleids had already been killed off by the time the Dunmer came into existence. We can also look at the timeline of the First Era and see that there's a 457 year gap between the fall of the Ayleid Empire (1E 243) and the War of the First council (1E 700).

Vylaera

Ratzkifal wrote: »

But I feel it makes much more sense than the Ayleid ruins in Auridon and the complete lack of Direnni ruins in Highrock considering it's not that hard to get into the Blackmarsh borderlands from Cyrodiil.

Those were a mistake. Lawrence Schick even says outright they were in a very tounge-in-cheek way while in character as Phrastus.

"Phrastus: Well, hmph, any description of Elven ruins in the Summerset Isles as 'Ayleid' is an ignorant mistake! Probably made by someone who can't tell Heartland Elf architecture from High Elf. Look, it's quite simple: if you go into an Ayleid ruin, they're lit by these spooky, eerie blue lights, these-these Varla stones and Welkynd stones. Whereas, if you go into an Altmeri ruin, it will be lit by the golden glow of the Culanda and Malondo stones. So, uh that's one easy way to tell them apart, even if they may look superficially similar. However, despite these superficial similarities, it is incontrovertible that all the various races of the elves derive from Altmeri- Aldmeri root stock. Don't confuse your 'D's with your 'T's. Next!"

As for the absence of Direnni ruins, it's another mistake. From another interview he makes a lore excuse.

"Phrastus:
The answer, as I understand it, is that High Rock was settled by the Elves only sparsely and in a few specific locations, so while there were specific Altmeri, Ayleid, and probably even ancient Falmer settlements scattered about, there were never enough Elves to form a broad culture or society. Even during the Direnni Hegemony, they ruled largely through Nedic clients, who became the later Breton nobility. You can find some well-expressed ideas in yet another of my lorebooks, “The Bretons: Mongrels or Paragons?”"

WiseSky

May Mara bless you

Vylaera

Edited the original post to add the up to date images and status of the addon as well as spoiler tag the original post to have the up to date stuff more prominent.

Ratzkifal

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

There is lore on the Ayleids, specifically the Barsaebic Ayleids, being in Blackmarsh.

In Black Marsh

[...]

Yes, in Blackmarsh. I still don't agree that Shadowfen is or should be Morrowind. So as far as I am concerned there is no Ayleid ruins in Morrowind, which seems to be your point of contention. I am fine with Morrowind's border changing a little as long as it's generally accurate and the areas already described remain as described within the lore.

BroughBreaux wrote: »

[...]

So, we know that the Velothi Exodus coincides with the creation of Malacath and the Orsimer, which sources conflict on being either in the Dawn Era or early Merethic. "On the True Nature of Orcs" which is the fundamental text for Orc lore, puts the timeframe in the Dawn Era. "The Monomyth" which is another foundational text used as a baseline for all ES lore, puts the exodus before Lorkhan was killed at Convention. The Ayleids left Alinor in the middle Merethic era. I think it's safe to say that the Chimer had established their borders before the Ayleids established theirs. It's difficult to make a definitive claim though, as there are conflicting sources on when the Velothi exodus occured. Regardless, the city wouldn't have been created, lived in, and abandoned before the Chimer took control of Resdayn.

It's also worth noting that the Ayleids left Alinor in waves, which, making an unfounded assumption, means that the first wave was the wave that founded the cities in Cyrodiil, and one of the latter waves founded those in Black Marsh.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

possibly even moving in after becoming Dunmer - who knows.

We do know that Lord Indoril Nerevar was alive after the fall of the Ayleid Empire, as indicated by Nerevar's attendance at the Coronation of Emperor Gorieus. Nerevar is killed by the Tribunal dies at the end of the War of the First Council, which was when the Chimer Became Dunmer, so the Ayleids had already been killed off by the time the Dunmer came into existence. We can also look at the timeline of the First Era and see that there's a 457 year gap between the fall of the Ayleid Empire (1E 243) and the War of the First council (1E 700).

You are right about the timeline. It wouldn't be the Dunmer kicking them out. But it could be the Dunmer moving in much later after the fall of the Ayleids. Stormhold's Ayleid structure are ruined after all, so it was either an armed conflict or lots of time from one occupant to the next.
We also do not know when the Ayleids went to Blackmarsh or even if they came straight from Summerset or if they were a splinter group from the ones already in Cyrodiil. Whatever the case may be, I do not view Stormhold as Morrowind but a Dunmer expansion into Blackmarsh, which could have happened after the Ayleids had already settled there.
We don't know when the Dunmer/Chimer took over that area. It didn't have to be at the time of the first settlement of the Chimer, so there is no contradiction, unless I am missing something.

Eitherway, we already discussed all this at length already and agreed to disagree. I think that Stormhold was placed wrong inside Shadowfen, you think that Shadowfen is too far up north and should be further south.

Grandchamp1989

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I have an update: Map is finalized and Code Man is doing Code.

No idea on a release, but I do have a new image to post.
Only fixed a few minor things here, the most notably, the bad edit around summerset's coastline that carried over from the original rough edit was fixed and tiled in better.


I also have plans to fix the Aurbis map, but will wait until the Deadlands DLC is out to make it in case the Aurbis map changes between its version on PTS (pictured) and the final version on Live.

Does this map fit with the position of Falkreath Hold as it is placed in Elder Scrolls Skyrim?

Vylaera

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Does this map fit with the position of Falkreath Hold as it is placed in Elder Scrolls Skyrim?

@Grandchamp1989 Yes.

Grandchamp1989

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Does this map fit with the position of Falkreath Hold as it is placed in Elder Scrolls Skyrim?

@Grandchamp1989 Yes.

It's just because the Dungeon Falkreath Hold takes place in Falkreath, and that is located in Craglorn.
But on the map it isn't..

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Maybe the mistake is thinking the Morrowind border goes that far south, what if Deeshan actually is the border.

Ratzkifal

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Does this map fit with the position of Falkreath Hold as it is placed in Elder Scrolls Skyrim?

@Grandchamp1989 Yes.

It's just because the Dungeon Falkreath Hold takes place in Falkreath, and that is located in Craglorn.
But on the map it isn't..

That's because the Falkreath area hasn't been added to the game yet. You access it from Craglorn. It's not actually in Craglorn. Just like Icereach is in Wrothgar even though it's an island to the north.

Grandchamp1989

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Does this map fit with the position of Falkreath Hold as it is placed in Elder Scrolls Skyrim?

@Grandchamp1989 Yes.

It's just because the Dungeon Falkreath Hold takes place in Falkreath, and that is located in Craglorn.
But on the map it isn't..

That's because the Falkreath area hasn't been added to the game yet. You access it from Craglorn. It's not actually in Craglorn. Just like Icereach is in Wrothgar even though it's an island to the north.

Oh, that's very interesting. Didn't know that xD

WiseSky

Are you gonna be running for the Presidential Election, I would vote for you!

Vylaera

WiseSky wrote: »

Are you gonna be running for the Presidential Election, I would vote for you!

Vyvene for Queen!
[snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]