Teammates ignore objectives and deathmatch mindlessly

Nick_Balza

I don't like ruiners of game experience during BG. Even if I understand that Zenimax broke their game. But instead of dealing with the game, they are spoiling game to players who want to do the objective.
I suggest report people who coming on BG to spoil other's game.

Skoomah

Nick_Balza wrote: »

I don't like ruiners of game experience during BG. Even if I understand that Zenimax broke their game. But instead of dealing with the game, they are spoiling game to players who want to do the objective.
I suggest report people who coming on BG to spoil other's game.

The BG experience has been terrible. We need a deathmatch queue so people can play how they want.

Reverb

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Match queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

I put both sides of this argument into the same bucket as people who complain about the dungeon groups they get in the pugfinder.

Nobody gets to decide that what’s important to them must also be important to other people. You aren’t entitled to say how other people should play the game just because it’s what you want. Don’t queue for a random group and complain about random outcomes. If you want to be guaranteed an objective based team, put one together. Same if you want to ensure your team fights and doesn’t focus objectives. If you queue without a group, accept that you’ll be placed with people who don’t have to want what you want.

Skoomah

Reverb wrote: »

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Match queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

I put both sides of this argument into the same bucket as people who complain about the dungeon groups they get in the pugfinder.

Nobody gets to decide that what’s important to them must also be important to other people. You aren’t entitled to say how other people should play the game just because it’s what you want. Don’t queue for a random group and complain about random outcomes. If you want to be guaranteed an objective based team, put one together. Same if you want to ensure your team fights and doesn’t focus objectives. If you queue without a group, accept that you’ll be placed with people who don’t have to want what you want.

Exactly, give players the ability to queue with other like minded players. Deathmatch folks fight deathmatch folks. Objective game players play with other objective game players. Why are the two absolutely opposite minded players forced to play with each other? There's absolutely enough population to support Deathmatch Queue only. It's not my fault there isn't enough Objective folks to support their interests.

MrMazurski

Reverb wrote: »

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Match queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

I put both sides of this argument into the same bucket as people who complain about the dungeon groups they get in the pugfinder.

Nobody gets to decide that what’s important to them must also be important to other people. You aren’t entitled to say how other people should play the game just because it’s what you want. Don’t queue for a random group and complain about random outcomes. If you want to be guaranteed an objective based team, put one together. Same if you want to ensure your team fights and doesn’t focus objectives. If you queue without a group, accept that you’ll be placed with people who don’t have to want what you want.

Yea and thats thinking destroying others game, bcs ppl like you only think about frags score. It's just through such thinking BG there are full people who ignore the goal. You could not give better example for this topic.

If I come to BG and gets crazyking or chaosball, it accepts the principles of the game and try to receive a goal.

Reverb

MrMazurski wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Match queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

I put both sides of this argument into the same bucket as people who complain about the dungeon groups they get in the pugfinder.

Nobody gets to decide that what’s important to them must also be important to other people. You aren’t entitled to say how other people should play the game just because it’s what you want. Don’t queue for a random group and complain about random outcomes. If you want to be guaranteed an objective based team, put one together. Same if you want to ensure your team fights and doesn’t focus objectives. If you queue without a group, accept that you’ll be placed with people who don’t have to want what you want.

Yea and thats thinking destroying others game, bcs ppl like you only think about frags score. It's just through such thinking BG there are full people who ignore the goal. You could not give better example for this topic.

If I come to BG and gets crazyking or chaosball, it accepts the principles of the game and try to receive a goal.

[snip] You are holding up your way of playing as the one right way. That’s simply not true.

You are framing your way of playing as being morally righteous and superior, to the extent of claiming that people who think differently from you are destroying the game. While failing to apply introspection and see that your way is destroying the game for people with different viewpoints.

People can want different things from the game, and that’s ok. People can have personal agendas and objectives in pvp, and that’s ok. Not everyone has to play how you want, or how you think they should.

[edited for baiting]

Nick_Balza

Skoomah wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Match queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

I put both sides of this argument into the same bucket as people who complain about the dungeon groups they get in the pugfinder.

Nobody gets to decide that what’s important to them must also be important to other people. You aren’t entitled to say how other people should play the game just because it’s what you want. Don’t queue for a random group and complain about random outcomes. If you want to be guaranteed an objective based team, put one together. Same if you want to ensure your team fights and doesn’t focus objectives. If you queue without a group, accept that you’ll be placed with people who don’t have to want what you want.

Exactly, give players the ability to queue with other like minded players. Deathmatch folks fight deathmatch folks. Objective game players play with other objective game players. Why are the two absolutely opposite minded players forced to play with each other? There's absolutely enough population to support Deathmatch Queue only. It's not my fault there isn't enough Objective folks to support their interests.

It's not your fault, right. But it is also not the fault of other players that DM queue is absent. For what are you spoiling their game and what do you want to achieve? When you are pushing "Join queue" button, you understand that there will be random. And you accept rules of the game you are playing. After not following game rules you are complaining that game is bad (because good game experience is based on following game rules and mechanics).

Reverb

Nick_Balza wrote: »

(because good game experience is based on following game rules and mechanics).

For you. Good game experience is based on good fights for many people. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Jaimeh

Imagine working on a project in RL with a team, and having someone not working towards the goal because they want to do their own thing. There is an objective to each match, designated by the game, which is not up for debate, and since it's a team experience, by ignoring it, you are ruining it for everyone else. It's the same principle as queueing for a dungeon and RPing as a pacifist because that's what you like to do in dungeons, People shouldn't have to form a group to do the objective, people who want to play deathmatch-style should do that.

Nick_Balza

Reverb wrote: »

Nick_Balza wrote: »

(because good game experience is based on following game rules and mechanics).

For you. Good game experience is based on good fights for many people. [snip]

Rules are designed for everyone inside the game. If you are playing basketball, you can't pass the ball by using your legs. If you will - you will be punished and nobody wants to play with you. So, coming to basketball field and playing football there is ruining game experience, as it is.
Same here - coming on Flag Games or Land Grab and playing DM there is ruining other's game experience.
In addition - there is no skill in killing people who is busy with objectives. There is no value in such kill, represents zero skills and proves that person is able to kill someone only from behind and not able to fight face to face.

[edited to remove quote]

MrMazurski

Reverb wrote: »

Nick_Balza wrote: »

(because good game experience is based on following game rules and mechanics).

For you. Good game experience is based on good fights for many people. [snip]

and focusing on your goals doesn't give you the opportunity to "good fight"?

Sorry, but for me you have to be terribly flat thinking. If a good fight is running and looking for kills where your team is losing. Thanks for cooperation with 3 others mates.

[edited to remove quote]

sabresandiego_ESO

The removal of deathmatch que is quite possibly the single worst thing to happen to this game since the release of bgs.

Nick_Balza

If we will report such players - everyone wins.
Think about it: mass reporting is a thing, which can't be ignored by developers. When they will discover what and why happened, they will look for solution.
In worst case DM players will be just banned (for spoiling game experience).
Best output of this - developers will give DM queue or just bring back ability to queue anywhere like it was time ago.

ketsparrowhawk

Morrowind drops.. BG's are introduced. SWEET!

Check out all the modes.. okay cool but DEATHMATCH is where it's at.

Years pass. Game is basically Elder Deathmatch Online as far as I'm concerned. All is well.

Then random-only Q is introduced. Unable to play Deathmatch most of the time.

Attempt to PvP anyway.. Get yelled at by non PvPers.

Maybe tomorrow I'll get lucky and 1/10 Q's will pop DM.

Skoomah

The BG experience is currently GARBAGE. 100% of the games I played last night were people avoiding killing players and just running from flag to flag avoiding fights, holding balls on the other side of the map by themselves avoiding fights, and grabbing relics to turn in and avoiding fights.

See a pattern here? AVOIDING FIGHTS TO "WIN".

99.9% of the game is already PVE content. And there hasn't been any new PVP content introduced into the game since MORROWIND. Can the PVP crowd please get a bone ZOS? How about DEATHMATCH QUEUE? PLEASE.

sabresandiego_ESO

Bringing back deathmatch only que will make objective players much happier as well. They will be facing other objective players and the games will play out as intended.

Right now, you usually have several players or teams completely ignoring the objective and ruining the experience for the objective players. And the pvp experience is ruined for the deathmatch players as well, since they are trying to do small scale pvp and bgs are the best source of that, but are ruined by random que.

JobooAGS

Thuragan wrote: »

My experience has been the same. BGs are absolutely broken right now.

Every single day I see the same people over and over again in the BGs. Those people are all rank 40-50 Grand Overlords and such, completely steamrolling everyone. I'm only rank 21 on one of my characters, how am I being queued with them? Is there not enough population? Is MMR broken? Not only that, but they don't play objectives, all they do is kill.


I used to somewhat enjoy BGs but it's completely not fun right now and a very bad experience. Really disappointed.

https://imgur.com/Uxp1O1P

Urvoth

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Amottica

I had heard ESO used to have the ability to queue for a specific match but they eliminated this when they brought back the ability to queue as groups.

While I personally feel it is more important to be able to queue solo than for a specific match if the community would rather have that change reverted then why not revert that change altogether. Of course only if this is what the community wants vs just a small portion of it. I do doubt the game has enough PvP players to have both.

MrMazurski

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

alberichtano

Chrlynsch wrote: »

What is the insetive for winning BGs? Most pvp players just want to Pvp, unless you give the players an incentive to "win" the game-mode most will opt out to just pvping.

As of right now you can win some extra ap, and some junk gear that is worth more after deconstructing.

Well what is the incentive for going on a killing spree against other players?

I find Deathmatches to be a chore, as I zugg at PvP. The other modes can be fun, as there is a bit of tactics involved. Not always the beefiest team that wins. :-)

Urvoth

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

It’s the truth, though. When mode queues were active, DM had the most players by far. This thread wouldn’t even have been made if people weren’t so interested in playing DM.

MrMazurski

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

It’s the truth, though. When mode queues were active, DM had the most players by far. This thread wouldn’t even have been made if people weren’t so interested in playing DM.

they are not interested in it. Most of the players, as shown in the posts here, play them and will play their deathmatch even if it's a different mode.
And this topic is about players who can't focus on goals, not about missing a queue. You just can't change the behavior of these players.

I'm curious how and what are they doing on Cyro? They're also running around the map looking for someone to kill?

DM queue? Ok, but just stop ruining the fun of other players who have fun with other modes and start working with the team

Urvoth

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

It’s the truth, though. When mode queues were active, DM had the most players by far. This thread wouldn’t even have been made if people weren’t so interested in playing DM.

they are not interested in it. Most of the players, as shown in the posts here, play them and will play their deathmatch even if it's a different mode.
And this topic is about players who can't focus on goals, not about missing a queue. You just can't change the behavior of these players.

I'm curious how and what are they doing on Cyro? They're also running around the map looking for someone to kill?

DM queue? Ok, but just stop ruining the fun of other players who have fun with other modes and start working with the team

Until DM queue is added back, everyone will continue playing DM in objective modes since we are forced to play them instead of just having a DM option. Why should people play objectives if most of the pple in the game would rather just DM? No one from the regular BG community wants objective modes, it's just randoms and people who aren't good at PvP.

Eevee_42

This is an issue that has become more prominent after the removal of the DM queue. Forcing people who actually want to pvp into relic capping and flag games is a recipe for disaster. These game modes are designed in a way that keep people running around and avoiding pvp. There is a large BG community that enjoy pvp without the laggy, broken zerg-fest that is Cyrodiil. Adding back the option to choose your game mode is a decision that would make pvpers and objective players happy, because it eliminates the conflict of interest of wanting actual pvp vs just trying to cap some relics for your daily.

If ZOS is concerned about the lack of BG population, maybe they should take a good hard look at why that is. There are no incentives, on top of the fact that a lack of DM queue is likely a massive turn off for people. Who cares about getting some chaosball emotes, garbage gear, or the 1 transmute crystal while running a dungeon gives 10? The amount of AP received when compared to brainless zerging in Cyrodiil is pathetic. There hasn’t been a worthwhile pvp update since Morrowind, and we haven’t had a new BG map in years. It’s a neglected aspect of the game, but one that could have a lot of potential if it received some updates and better rewards.

MrMazurski

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

It’s the truth, though. When mode queues were active, DM had the most players by far. This thread wouldn’t even have been made if people weren’t so interested in playing DM.

they are not interested in it. Most of the players, as shown in the posts here, play them and will play their deathmatch even if it's a different mode.
And this topic is about players who can't focus on goals, not about missing a queue. You just can't change the behavior of these players.

I'm curious how and what are they doing on Cyro? They're also running around the map looking for someone to kill?

DM queue? Ok, but just stop ruining the fun of other players who have fun with other modes and start working with the team

Until DM queue is added back, everyone will continue playing DM in objective modes since we are forced to play them instead of just having a DM option. Why should people play objectives if most of the pple in the game would rather just DM? No one from the regular BG community wants objective modes, it's just randoms and people who aren't good at PvP.

[snip] You say for everyone, you say everyone wants, but no, don't everyone one. It is not so. Not everyone wants to play only at DM.
So please stop speaking for everyone. Good pvp is not only about DM and high k/d ratio. Your high kills are nothing if you have problem with cap one flag. [snip]

(if you dont have 50:1 k/d ratio you are bad pvp player? [snip] )

this topic exactly show that the main problem is not the bad design of BG, but the players behavior themselves.

[edited for baiting]

ketsparrowhawk

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Do you really think running around in circles, avoiding fights and capping flags is at all fun for BG regulars or PvPers in general? People queue for BGs to get guaranteed fights in an even, less laggy environment…not to get 2 fights a game while everyone runs away to the next flag.

Yes, not for all PvP players only killing defines "good pvp". I have much fun with Crazy king or Chaosball than Deathmatchs. I've had matches where fighting was much more interesting in these modes.
So please stop saying that all players want the BGs to become just deathmatches.

It’s the truth, though. When mode queues were active, DM had the most players by far. This thread wouldn’t even have been made if people weren’t so interested in playing DM.

they are not interested in it. Most of the players, as shown in the posts here, play them and will play their deathmatch even if it's a different mode.
And this topic is about players who can't focus on goals, not about missing a queue. You just can't change the behavior of these players.

I'm curious how and what are they doing on Cyro? They're also running around the map looking for someone to kill?

DM queue? Ok, but just stop ruining the fun of other players who have fun with other modes and start working with the team

Until DM queue is added back, everyone will continue playing DM in objective modes since we are forced to play them instead of just having a DM option. Why should people play objectives if most of the pple in the game would rather just DM? No one from the regular BG community wants objective modes, it's just randoms and people who aren't good at PvP.

[snip] You say for everyone, you say everyone wants, but no, don't everyone one. It is not so. Not everyone wants to play only at DM.
So please stop speaking for everyone. Good pvp is not only about DM and high k/d ratio. Your high kills are nothing if you have problem with cap one flag. [snip]

(if you dont have 50:1 k/d ratio you are bad pvp player? [snip] )

this topic exactly show that the main problem is not the bad design of BG, but the players behavior themselves.

Just look at the comments that have the most "agrees" in this thread and you'll see that @Urvoth does indeed speak for the majority of the BG community.

[edited to remove quote]

Nick_Balza

Don't mess "PvP" with brainless slaughter.
PvP is just "Player vs Player" game mode. Chess, football and etc. are PvP games aswell. You don't have to kill everything or disable all players to win the match.
Players who get 50/1 kills in Chaosball are totally useless in DM. Bragging with such "success" and "skill" is same as bragging how much people you hit from behind by the rock on the street.
I can't really get, if you want non stop action, what prevents you from going to Imperial City, where is non stop deathmatch?

Be honest - you just want to bully other players and spoil their game.

ketsparrowhawk

Nick_Balza wrote: »

Don't mess "PvP" with brainless slaughter.
PvP is just "Player vs Player" game mode. Chess, football and etc. are PvP games aswell. You don't have to kill everything or disable all players to win the match.
Players who get 50/1 kills in Chaosball are totally useless in DM. Bragging with such "success" and "skill" is same as bragging how much people you hit from behind by the rock on the street.
I can't really get, if you want non stop action, what prevents you from going to Imperial City, where is non stop deathmatch?

Be honest - you just want to bully other players and spoil their game.

IC isn't at all the same experience. Can't even find players to fight most of the time. When you do there's a good chance you'll be outnumbered. When you've been doing nothing but Deathmatch for 2 years IC is a paltry substitute.

Fischblut

How I used to play back when we could happily queue for Deathmatch:

1) do my Random daily BG for extra reward, thus having to endure 1 or few random modes.
2) queue for Deathmatch and play one after another for hours

Today, Deathmatches are very rare... I truly hate when I get objective game nowadays, especially Relic. But I do my best to play objective, because it's common sense. We're in this mess together.

What is the insetive for winning BGs? Most pvp players just want to Pvp, unless you give the players an incentive to "win" the game-mode most will opt out to just pvping.

As of right now you can win some extra ap, and some junk gear that is worth more after deconstructing.

Winner gets ~14k AP. Two BGs won, and you can buy 1 forward camp + some more items, or few sieges, or some potions Also winners get higher chance to receive very rare item, Chef Arquitius's Lost Thesis It's always nice to try and maximize your chance. Lats time I checked, this item costed 25 millions gold One can dream...

If during objective match, teams are not even trying, and play pure deathmatch, and it goes for 15 minutes... And you most likely won't win objective match in such situation, so you get 7k-10k AP for 15 minutes, while you burn through your potions on cooldown during that match... For me, it's not very rewarding
To be fair, I am very angry even when my team is trying to win Objective match and fails, if that match was going for full 15 minutes.
The only time I'm not angry that match lasts 15 minutes is... Deathmatch Because that means that all groups were strong, and we had good fight even if we couldn't win.

The only time I "allowed" two teams to have their personal deathmatch in Relic game, is when I had no team myself. I captured some relics, and was watching two other teams fight. I had to end the match about a minute earlier though, because one player from enemy team started capturing relics too. I didn't have any fun that match myself, and I was very envious that those two teams could have good fights