I WAS very excited about endeavours

zharkovian

I'm happy with something new, I did my 60 seals today just playing normally and if I do that for about 17 days I can get a pet, emote or body markings for 1000 seals, not bad.

ajkb78

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I think on week 2, endeavors will go back to being 2 per daily.

I really doubt it. 2 per day I think was just for testing on the PTS, before prices were published.

At 2 per day (assuming you mean per daily, so a total of 6 per day with the 3 daily cap) it would take OVER THREE YEARS (not counting weeklies) to get the spriggan. Endeavors are already not the alternative to gamble crates many were hoping, since it is impossible to earn the expensive rewards during the window of time they are available (if past crown season length is any indication.

If they changed it to 2 per day it would be more like an insult to people who aren't buying crates.

They won't drop the rate. Can you imagine what bad PR that would be? ZoS are better at expectation management than that.

It might be impossible to earn this season's radiant apexes but with weeklies you should be able to get an apex mount per crate season, or if you save up you'll be able to get a radiant apex next season. That's about what I expected for apexes and better than I expected for radiants. It offers a perfectly reasonable low impact way to get something from crates that you really really want without having to grind crates into gems, which is fantastic. It won't let you get every gem item for seals, but of course it was never going to offer that. I'm really really happy with the system but it seems like there are a lot of self entitled whiners around today...

Firstmep

So as I expected, this system is mostly just to make people want these items even more, and when they realize they can't get them because their season is about to end, buy for it cash anyway.
Mani... something something is the word that comes to mind.

cnyanes

mekops_ESO wrote: »

Theres a lot of people here who are much more thoughtful about these sorts of things than I am. Thanks for doing various maths and stuff to show the scope of it. I am curious to see what weekly endeavors give. Knowing that will give us a better idea of what can and cant be done.

I guess what I really want to know is: If I do every possible daily/weekly(during a given crown crate season), will I be able to afford the most expensive thing from the crates(not the limited time offers), before that particular "crate season" is over. It might seem arbitrary, but the answer to this question seems like it will be the "breaking" point as to whether or not I will actively pursue SoEs, or treat them like something that passively piles up. At least for me. That bar will probably be different for other people.

Even then, its just a point of curiosity. In the end this is all just free stuff and I havent the heart to fuss about it. I really just want to know if this is going to end up being a carrot-on-a-stick for me to chase, or if these things are just going to pile up on me until I run into something I really, really, really really want.

That is exactly the point... so far, it doesn't seem like that is ever going to happen. To me, THAT is the main problem. I don't mind the grinding all that much, we do it for everything else anyway... but knowing that all that grinding is not even going to help you get the stuff that's currently available, that's *** design.

EDIT - Sorry, it's not *** design... it's very clever design, in order to make a whole lot of money.

Goregrinder

Firstmep wrote: »

So as I expected, this system is mostly just to make people want these items even more, and when they realize they can't get them because their season is about to end, buy for it cash anyway.
Mani... something something is the word that comes to mind.

You're surprised that a company wants you to give them money?

Blacknight841

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Everyone is saying you earn 20 seals per day which is incorrect. It is 60 per day, not including the weeklys, which when I estimated to be 100, leaves about 2200 seals per month, meaning a radiant apex will take less than 8 months to get, which pleasantly surprised me.

I think the 16 gem and 40 gem items should've been a bit cheaper in seals, but the rare items turned out much better than expected for me. I thought they'd be 1+ years.

I feel like my opinion may be skewed because I never bought crates. I only got gems through free crates. So even a non radiant apex mounts seemed super rare and unattainable to me. Four-ish months for an apex mount is ridiculously cheap from my perspective I guess.

How does that help, you cannot even play the entire time during one season and get rewarded with a single mount from the current season. In essence, 3 crown crate seasons will pass during the time it takes you to get one mount. Or in other words, you cannot obtain any mounts from the next 3 seasons.

colossalvoids

Basically a mount a year system for ones who logs in every day and a thing not to bother with for others, as expected.

Btw there's no free stuff in the world, your time have actual worth (a surprise).

redlink1979

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

(...)
- 1000 Endeavors for 16 gem items,
- 2000 for 40 gem items,
- 3600 for 100 gem items,
- 8000 for normal Apex mounts,
- 16000 flat for all Radiant Apex mounts.

ZOS being... ZOS.

AuraStorm43

I expected nothing and i’m still disappointed, 16000 endeavors for an apex mount is absurd

Endeavors are only there so they can say crown crate items can be earned through gameplay, since lootboxes are under such heavy scrutiny

Dragonnord

Prices are perfect! In fact, they could be even higher. I wouldn't like 100,000 players running around with the same 50 Radiant Apexes.

This way, with these prices, Radiant Apex at least remain kind of the only exclusive stuff in the game. Because, apart from Radiant Apex, everything else can be obtained fairly easy and quickly.

I'm glad to see the system working this way, with this prices.

Blacknight841

Let’s look at it from a different perspective….

If it takes 15m to do the daily quests, and let’s say 1 hour to do the weekly. That’s approximately 2.5 hours a week. So 267 days is about 38 weeks. Assuming you do them all that is 95 hours. At $10 an hour pay, that would translate to $950. In conclusion If you spend that time working instead of doing the nonsense endeavors, you will make enough money to get 210,000 crowns with the 21,000 crown pack on sale at 40% off. …. Enough to buy 630 crown crates with $50 left over to get the next years chapter.

You can either spend 95 hours of your gameplay for 3/4 of year, or you can shell out $950 to get 210 crown crates for each of the 3 seasons during the same nine months.

… disguising the new endeavors as an act of good faith to allow players to get the items from loot crates through gameplay…. But in actuality it is meant to drive more players to buy crowns.

You cannot even do all the endeavors each day but are limited to doing 3 of them.

Tra_Lalan

So my boss came to me today and said: You've been working here for a year now, havent you? Listen, remember those luxury cars parking in front of our building, those cool rides you could never afford? Here is a a thing, I will give you one of those cars every 6 months, you just do your job as you did before, how does it appeal to you? Cool?

Me: Wow, thanks man, thats great.

Other ESO players: Only one for a half of a year? Nah, this is ***, Only Ferrari? Where is Masseratti? You just want to use me as always.

Brrrofski

Why is everyone shocked?

Did you honestly expect better?

Have you not been keeping up with what ZOS charges for everything? You thought you'd earn a mount that you have to spend hundreds of pounds on in two months?

It's exactly how I thought it would be.

You'll miss two crown crate cycles so when something juicy comes that you want, you'll need to spend money.

And now they can feel and appear a lot more ethical and moral by saying "well you can earn them in game".

If you thought they were giving us something from the kindness of their hearts, you're beyond deluded.

Firstmep

Goregrinder wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

So as I expected, this system is mostly just to make people want these items even more, and when they realize they can't get them because their season is about to end, buy for it cash anyway.
Mani... something something is the word that comes to mind.

You're surprised that a company wants you to give them money?

I never had issues with straight up monetization like selling dlcs, cash shop items etc.
But this very obviously looks like they are using it to lure in people to cave in and spend more money.
It's just a bit more underhanded than I can stomach is all.

MrZeeck

ZOS have lost their damn minds... These prices are pure insanity.

Elsonso

.

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So my boss came to me today and said: You've been working here for a year now, havent you? Listen, remember those luxury cars parking in front of our building, those cool rides you could never afford? Here is a a thing, I will give you one of those cars every 6 months, you just do your job as you did before, how does it appeal to you? Cool?

Me: Wow, thanks man, thats great.

Other ESO players: Only one for a half of a year? Nah, this is ***, Only Ferrari? Where is Masseratti? You just want to use me as always.

Uhm. That isn't really anything to do with what is happening.

notyuu

Elsonso wrote: »

Not unexpected. 18 Daily Endeavors (up to 3 per day) just to get the trash stuff from the Crown Crates that people use to convert to Gems. Only 800 Daily Endeavors to get a Radiant Apex bling.

ya maths is a bit off

you earn 60 seals a day
basic item is 360 seals, which is 6 days
raidant apex is 16k which is 267 days (ascually 266.666666667 but whatever)

still terrible but not as disaster as your making out

RevJJ

The point a lot of people seem to be missing when they talk about grinding for endeavors is that you earn endeavors through stuff you’d probably already do in the game anyway. It’s not special quests like with events.
For example, three of today’s possible endeavors were

* kill 10 humanoids
* Kill 15 enemies with class skills
* Loot two chests

If you do a random dungeon you can probably get all three of those in one run (depending on the dungeon).

A radiant apex mouth will normally probably set you back something like $600 worth of crates, assuming an average of 10 crown gems worth of stuff per crate (which is a very optimistic estimate).
Did you really think they would be handing those out for free every season?

The_one_i_seek

@NoxiousBlight

its 5 dailies 20 each = 100 endeavors

not 60

Contraptions

Lol, I think this joke of a system is a bare minimum attempt to appease regulators/Microsoft by giving players the smallest ever chance of getting gamble crate items without paying. Just like how they added the ridiculously rare Aetherial Ciphers into the game so no one could accuse them of P2W since the 150% Crown XP scrolls they were selling at the time was better than Psijic Ambrosia.

[snip]

[Edit for Bashing.]

Nomadic_Atmoran

I dont like that there is a limit on the endeavors you can do in a day. But I can see what they are trying to accomplish with this new system. They don't want us cashing in too soon. I guess Im just on the fence about how I feel about this endeavors system. A part of me understands the reasoning behind drawing it out because it will take a year or so to really save up enough to get some of the really nicer things in the Crown Crates. Of course they dont want those things to be easy to obtain. But on the other hand knowing I wont be able to utilize these seals for anything respectable for upwards to a year is disappointing. Theres just no reason to be excited about this system. Its just another grind.

TequilaFire

The_one_i_seek wrote: »

@NoxiousBlight

its 5 dailies 20 each = 100 endeavors

not 60

I just did it, you are only allowed to pick 3 of the 5.

Elsonso

notyuu wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Not unexpected. 18 Daily Endeavors (up to 3 per day) just to get the trash stuff from the Crown Crates that people use to convert to Gems. Only 800 Daily Endeavors to get a Radiant Apex bling.

ya maths is a bit off

you earn 60 seals a day
basic item is 360 seals, which is 6 days
raidant apex is 16k which is 267 days (ascually 266.666666667 but whatever)

still terrible but not as disaster as your making out

Math is spot on. Don't equate "Daily Endeavor" with "Day"

360 Seals comes out to... 360/20=18 Daily Endeavors (at 20 per Daily Endeavor)
16,000 Seals comes out to... 16000/20=800 Daily Endeavors (at 20 per Daily Endeavor)

How long it takes to get that many done depends on the daily cap and how many you do per day.

As to whether the cap is 3 per day or 5 per day, and even how many Seals you get for each, I guess that is variable and can change at whim. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

NoxiousBlight

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Let’s look at it from a different perspective….

If it takes 15m to do the daily quests, and let’s say 1 hour to do the weekly. That’s approximately 2.5 hours a week. So 267 days is about 38 weeks. Assuming you do them all that is 95 hours. At $10 an hour pay, that would translate to $950. In conclusion If you spend that time working instead of doing the nonsense endeavors, you will make enough money to get 210,000 crowns with the 21,000 crown pack on sale at 40% off. …. Enough to buy 630 crown crates with $50 left over to get the next years chapter.

You can either spend 95 hours of your gameplay for 3/4 of year, or you can shell out $950 to and get 210 crown crates for each of the 3 seasons during the same nine months.

… disguising the new endeavors as an act of good faith to allow players to get the items from loot crates through gameplay…. But in actuality it is meant to drive more players to buy crowns.

You cannot even do all the endeavors each day but are limited to doing 3 of them.

That is a flawed way of looking at it. I earned all 60 seals today without any effort. I got them just playing the game normally. Based on my experience with the PTS this will normally be the case. The weekly will require a modicum of effort, but if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. I play this game 500-600 hours a year for fun so its not like endeavours are any kind of burden whatsoever. I don't get paid at my job to have fun, so assigning an hourly wage to it is silly.

Furthermore with the cap in place you can't even grind them out like a job. If you want a game that lets you grind like a job go play Warframe. So as it stands endeavours are just a nice free bonus that let you get a cosmetic once in a while.

I've never seen a group of players more upset about free stuff before. This is like a monthly login reward thread times 100. Who cares if it takes six months for a radiant? Then DON'T DO IT. You didn't have a radiant before and you don't need one now. Just play the game and have fun. You will get most of the endeavours just by playing the game - spend them on something you like. And if you are not having fun then find a game that you have fun with.

Linaleah

honestly, I was expecting it to be a grindy... endeavor (har har) and ZoS still managed to unpleasantly surprise me with their pricing. not with how high it is but rather that its not one flat value rate. i expected apex mounts to take months and radiant apex even more so. what i did not expect was that they would make cheaper, smaller items.. you know 16 gem stuff etc... to cost that many more seals vs gems compared to higher gem items.

and I do understand why. they want people to give them money. but it was still an unpleasant surprise for me.

NoxiousBlight

The_one_i_seek wrote: »

@NoxiousBlight

its 5 dailies 20 each = 100 endeavors

not 60

You can only do 3 of the 5 per day. Once you do 3 the other two grey out and you cannot do them.

So it is indeed 60 per day.

SilverBride

I was never excited about them. Doing writs on 3 characters a day is all the chores I can stand. Now with companion rapport then this, when is there any time left to actually play?

mekops_ESO

RevJJ wrote: »

The point a lot of people seem to be missing when they talk about grinding for endeavors is that you earn endeavors through stuff you’d probably already do in the game anyway. It’s not special quests like with events.
For example, three of today’s possible endeavors were

* kill 10 humanoids
* Kill 15 enemies with class skills
* Loot two chests

If you do a random dungeon you can probably get all three of those in one run (depending on the dungeon).

A radiant apex mouth will normally probably set you back something like $600 worth of crates, assuming an average of 10 crown gems worth of stuff per crate (which is a very optimistic estimate).
Did you really think they would be handing those out for free every season?

Its funny that you brought this up, because I completed these exact three, at about 1:15AM, in todays Wayrest pledge, without even realizing the system was up (having assumed it would go up with the new crates later on) XD. Hopefully the weekly ones will just sort of pile up from normal play as well. I really dont want to go out of my way for them at this point XD

coop500

NoxiousBlight wrote: »

I had the opposite thought. Better than I expected. At 60 a day, NOT including the weekly, that is one radiant apex every 267 days.

If the weekly awards enough you are looking at 2 radiant apex mounts a year for free. If you don't care about those then you can get a few free items per crate season.

Not sure what people were expecting but there was never any hope of you getting the majority of a crate without paying. Just pick one or two items you like and you get them for free. It is 1000% improvement.

This 110% I am oddly happy with this new system
Plus so far the tasks are stuff we'd be doing anyway. Now if that changes, my tone might change, but for as long as the tasks are stuff we'd be doing anyway in normal play, then I'm happy.

Blacknight841

NoxiousBlight wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Let’s look at it from a different perspective….

If it takes 15m to do the daily quests, and let’s say 1 hour to do the weekly. That’s approximately 2.5 hours a week. So 267 days is about 38 weeks. Assuming you do them all that is 95 hours. At $10 an hour pay, that would translate to $950. In conclusion If you spend that time working instead of doing the nonsense endeavors, you will make enough money to get 210,000 crowns with the 21,000 crown pack on sale at 40% off. …. Enough to buy 630 crown crates with $50 left over to get the next years chapter.

You can either spend 95 hours of your gameplay for 3/4 of year, or you can shell out $950 to and get 210 crown crates for each of the 3 seasons during the same nine months.

… disguising the new endeavors as an act of good faith to allow players to get the items from loot crates through gameplay…. But in actuality it is meant to drive more players to buy crowns.

You cannot even do all the endeavors each day but are limited to doing 3 of them.

That is a flawed way of looking at it. I earned all 60 seals today without any effort. I got them just playing the game normally. Based on my experience with the PTS this will normally be the case. The weekly will require a modicum of effort, but if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. I play this game 500-600 hours a year for fun so its not like endeavours are any kind of burden whatsoever. I don't get paid at my job to have fun, so assigning an hourly wage to it is silly.

Furthermore with the cap in place you can't even grind them out like a job. If you want a game that lets you grind like a job go play Warframe. So as it stands endeavours are just a nice free bonus that let you get a cosmetic once in a while.

I've never seen a group of players more upset about free stuff before. This is like a monthly login reward thread times 100. Who cares if it takes six months for a radiant? Then DON'T DO IT. You didn't have a radiant before and you don't need one now. Just play the game and have fun. You will get most of the endeavours just by playing the game - spend them on something you like. And if you are not having fun then find a game that you have fun with.

There is nothing free about endevours. Even daily login rewards are not free. Nothing in life is free. Everything has a cost, and in most cases that cost is time. You might say that this is a great addition because you have the ability to play 1.5h a day, other people do not have the time to play every day and are limited to the weekend. What takes you 9 months get by playing every day, can take 3 years for someone else. Your logic says that only players who play the game daily should be rewarded and have a chance to get a radiant mount a year. What you get for “free”, some others can only achieve by logging in and spending 15m of their time each day grinding. Not everyone is as privileged to spend 600 hours a year playing the game.

My main issue with the endeavors is that they implemented the caps on daily limits, and not on weekly limits. Players who cannot play every day have no way of recovering by doing extra weekly quests. Even with daily login reward, there is a chance for players that miss days to make it up. The cap on seals should have been made for the week… thus not requiring players to log in only to grind. This makes it possible for daily players to get the seals easily, while players that are more limited on days of play will have to do weekly quests to make up for days missed.