Ishtarknows wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Gamingdays wrote: »Simply no. I worked hard to get true genius on my sorc and as much as a pain it was to get it I don’t want the achievement devalued by just being able to put it on any toon. I could make a new toon and it suddenly has the title. It would just simply devalue it.
I don't see how it'd devalue it myself as you still earned said title I wouldn't be against this personally because the player who has it clearly earned it on at least one of their toons.
Some titles have greater status depending on what role you achieved them. A stack DD earning Bringer of Light (vcr+3) has a much easier job than a tank earning the same title. Being able to use the title on your baby tank that's only tanked normal trials for example gives a false impression of player ability in the role.
Thechuckage wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »I will never understand why people are against account-wide achievements. Why do you care if someone displays a title that they didn't get on that specific character? They still had to grind and work hard with a character to get that achievement.
A lot of this comes down to the fact that some players - perhaps predominantly from an action-based console background - believe everything is done by the player, while other players - perhaps predominantly from a RPG-based PC background - believe everything is done by the character. Another factor is that those who argue for account-wide achievements tend not to want to play their alts through normal progression but just have them instantly ready for "endgame", while those who argue for character-specific achievements want to play through the full game with their alts as equal characters.
Could you expound on the second half of that? Because I don't think anyone has asked for that. Or is asking for insta-50s.
This subject has been raised very many times, and a common theme is that people wanting account-wide achievements are levelling up alts to 50 in a few hours at e.g. dolmens in order to jump quickly to endgame but complain at the time it then takes to level up everything else that they feel they need, plus they don't want to have to repeat achievements which they've already done, so once one character has achieved something they want all the other characters to benefit automatically. Other players who are opposed to account-wide achievements aren't so concerned with endgame but want to progress all their characters individually through the game.
That was the point I was making, not that people are asking for insta-50s as such, they pretty much have that already. It's a quicker way of getting everything else that is the motivation for account-wide achievements and titles coupled with the desire not to repeat content they've already done - which conversely for many players is the whole point of having multiple characters.
Thechuckage wrote: »Ishtarknows wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Gamingdays wrote: »Simply no. I worked hard to get true genius on my sorc and as much as a pain it was to get it I don’t want the achievement devalued by just being able to put it on any toon. I could make a new toon and it suddenly has the title. It would just simply devalue it.
I don't see how it'd devalue it myself as you still earned said title I wouldn't be against this personally because the player who has it clearly earned it on at least one of their toons.
Some titles have greater status depending on what role you achieved them. A stack DD earning Bringer of Light (vcr+3) has a much easier job than a tank earning the same title. Being able to use the title on your baby tank that's only tanked normal trials for example gives a false impression of player ability in the role.
What happens when the DD from your scenario decides to make that character into a tank, with zero tanking experience? Player has earned it on that character, but not role.
The player in question would look like they had bought a carry, or explain that they had just respec'd with the same end result of being removed from group.
Thechuckage wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »I will never understand why people are against account-wide achievements. Why do you care if someone displays a title that they didn't get on that specific character? They still had to grind and work hard with a character to get that achievement.
A lot of this comes down to the fact that some players - perhaps predominantly from an action-based console background - believe everything is done by the player, while other players - perhaps predominantly from a RPG-based PC background - believe everything is done by the character. Another factor is that those who argue for account-wide achievements tend not to want to play their alts through normal progression but just have them instantly ready for "endgame", while those who argue for character-specific achievements want to play through the full game with their alts as equal characters.
Could you expound on the second half of that? Because I don't think anyone has asked for that. Or is asking for insta-50s.
This subject has been raised very many times, and a common theme is that people wanting account-wide achievements are levelling up alts to 50 in a few hours at e.g. dolmens in order to jump quickly to endgame but complain at the time it then takes to level up everything else that they feel they need, plus they don't want to have to repeat achievements which they've already done, so once one character has achieved something they want all the other characters to benefit automatically. Other players who are opposed to account-wide achievements aren't so concerned with endgame but want to progress all their characters individually through the game.
That was the point I was making, not that people are asking for insta-50s as such, they pretty much have that already. It's a quicker way of getting everything else that is the motivation for account-wide achievements and titles coupled with the desire not to repeat content they've already done - which conversely for many players is the whole point of having multiple characters.
Disagree with it being a common theme that powerlevelers are the majority of those who want account wide achieves.
Fail to see what leveling up all the other things they need (IE Fighters, Mages, Psijic guild etc etc) has to do with it. Players still have to complete tasks for skill unlocks. Have to level up skill lines. If you are imagining each account having all those guild lines unlock, all skill shards unlocked....that would be lunacy.
Some things just don't need repeating. Get killed by slaughterfish, kill 1000 skeletons, ghosts, zombies etcetcetc. Real game changers right there. /s
Thechuckage wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »I will never understand why people are against account-wide achievements. Why do you care if someone displays a title that they didn't get on that specific character? They still had to grind and work hard with a character to get that achievement.
A lot of this comes down to the fact that some players - perhaps predominantly from an action-based console background - believe everything is done by the player, while other players - perhaps predominantly from a RPG-based PC background - believe everything is done by the character. Another factor is that those who argue for account-wide achievements tend not to want to play their alts through normal progression but just have them instantly ready for "endgame", while those who argue for character-specific achievements want to play through the full game with their alts as equal characters.
Could you expound on the second half of that? Because I don't think anyone has asked for that. Or is asking for insta-50s.
This subject has been raised very many times, and a common theme is that people wanting account-wide achievements are levelling up alts to 50 in a few hours at e.g. dolmens in order to jump quickly to endgame but complain at the time it then takes to level up everything else that they feel they need, plus they don't want to have to repeat achievements which they've already done, so once one character has achieved something they want all the other characters to benefit automatically. Other players who are opposed to account-wide achievements aren't so concerned with endgame but want to progress all their characters individually through the game.
That was the point I was making, not that people are asking for insta-50s as such, they pretty much have that already. It's a quicker way of getting everything else that is the motivation for account-wide achievements and titles coupled with the desire not to repeat content they've already done - which conversely for many players is the whole point of having multiple characters.
Disagree with it being a common theme that powerlevelers are the majority of those who want account wide achieves.
Fail to see what leveling up all the other things they need (IE Fighters, Mages, Psijic guild etc etc) has to do with it. Players still have to complete tasks for skill unlocks. Have to level up skill lines. If you are imagining each account having all those guild lines unlock, all skill shards unlocked....that would be lunacy.
Some things just don't need repeating. Get killed by slaughterfish, kill 1000 skeletons, ghosts, zombies etcetcetc. Real game changers right there. /s
I said it's a common theme, you added the bit about powerlevelers being the majority.
Ceejengine wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »Ishtarknows wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Gamingdays wrote: »Simply no. I worked hard to get true genius on my sorc and as much as a pain it was to get it I don’t want the achievement devalued by just being able to put it on any toon. I could make a new toon and it suddenly has the title. It would just simply devalue it.
I don't see how it'd devalue it myself as you still earned said title I wouldn't be against this personally because the player who has it clearly earned it on at least one of their toons.
Some titles have greater status depending on what role you achieved them. A stack DD earning Bringer of Light (vcr+3) has a much easier job than a tank earning the same title. Being able to use the title on your baby tank that's only tanked normal trials for example gives a false impression of player ability in the role.
What happens when the DD from your scenario decides to make that character into a tank, with zero tanking experience? Player has earned it on that character, but not role.
The player in question would look like they had bought a carry, or explain that they had just respec'd with the same end result of being removed from group.
I can guarantee you that if you earn any prestigious title as a DPS then swap to tank, you at a bare minimum know the movements and mechanics.
I've cleared hard stuff on my NB tank, then swapped to magblade DPS and had 0 struggle with doing it again.
Any player doing hard content knows their class like the back of their hand. You have to do research to get to that point to know what foods, attributes, enchants, how to maximize benefits from passives, etc, all things you need to succeed.
Not to mention outside of group content 99% of high quality players run hybrid builds anyway, so they're aware of their damage abilities, where to get mitigation, and what heals work best for what they're doing.
This idea that going from DPS -> Tank / heals or backwards is a whole new world is just out of left field. Like to get True Genius or CR+3 or vet HM BRF you need to know every single mech for every single boss + trash pull no matter what role you're in.
The only major hurdle to swapping from one to the other for anyone who remotely tryhards at ESO is farming primo / meta gear. Which to me, at least, is one of the most fun aspects of the game.
No why do we want to turn achievements into participation rewards?
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Step 3. Do not add titles to the account wide page so we dont have level 10 GOs and Flawless Conquerors running around.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Don't know how many times I have posted this.
Step 1. Leave character achievement pages exactly how they are.
Step 2. Add an account wide achievement page that shows total progress (achievement points) of the account.
Step 3. Do not add titles to the account wide page so we dont have level 10 GOs and Flawless Conquerors running around.
Everyone wins. There is no downside. If you play a lot of alts, great, you dont feel like you are stuck on one toon. If you like all your characters to be treated separately, again, no issue because you still have your character page.
My playtime would quadruple overnight if they did this. I stopped chasing achievements long ago because they arent account wide.
Thechuckage wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »I will never understand why people are against account-wide achievements. Why do you care if someone displays a title that they didn't get on that specific character? They still had to grind and work hard with a character to get that achievement.
A lot of this comes down to the fact that some players - perhaps predominantly from an action-based console background - believe everything is done by the player, while other players - perhaps predominantly from a RPG-based PC background - believe everything is done by the character. Another factor is that those who argue for account-wide achievements tend not to want to play their alts through normal progression but just have them instantly ready for "endgame", while those who argue for character-specific achievements want to play through the full game with their alts as equal characters.
Could you expound on the second half of that? Because I don't think anyone has asked for that. Or is asking for insta-50s.
This subject has been raised very many times, and a common theme is that people wanting account-wide achievements are levelling up alts to 50 in a few hours at e.g. dolmens in order to jump quickly to endgame but complain at the time it then takes to level up everything else that they feel they need, plus they don't want to have to repeat achievements which they've already done, so once one character has achieved something they want all the other characters to benefit automatically. Other players who are opposed to account-wide achievements aren't so concerned with endgame but want to progress all their characters individually through the game.
That was the point I was making, not that people are asking for insta-50s as such, they pretty much have that already. It's a quicker way of getting everything else that is the motivation for account-wide achievements and titles coupled with the desire not to repeat content they've already done - which conversely for many players is the whole point of having multiple characters.
Disagree with it being a common theme that powerlevelers are the majority of those who want account wide achieves.
Fail to see what leveling up all the other things they need (IE Fighters, Mages, Psijic guild etc etc) has to do with it. Players still have to complete tasks for skill unlocks. Have to level up skill lines. If you are imagining each account having all those guild lines unlock, all skill shards unlocked....that would be lunacy.
Some things just don't need repeating. Get killed by slaughterfish, kill 1000 skeletons, ghosts, zombies etcetcetc. Real game changers right there. /s
I said it's a common theme, you added the bit about powerlevelers being the majority.
And I quote "This subject has been raised very many times, and a common theme is that people wanting account-wide achievements are levelling up alts to 50 in a few hours at e.g. dolmens in order to jump quickly to endgame but complain at the time it then takes to level up everything else that they feel they need"
So taking an uncharitable reading of what you said its everyone who wants account wide. And are power levelers. People painting with large brushes then throwing stones...there has to be a couple more metaphors to shoehorn in there.
Sheezabeast wrote: »It boggles my mind how people don't understand the principle of earning a title. You perform a feat on a character, you earn it for them. It is a time investment. A commitment to the achievement. What about that, entitles you, to having that freely given to all your other characters? You earn it on each character, it is an achievement, a title.....how entitled do you have to be to think because you earn it once on one character, that everyone else should just have it given to them? That is the epitome of 'everyone gets a trophy'.
[Quoted post Removed]
Sheezabeast wrote: »It boggles my mind how people don't understand the principle of earning a title. You perform a feat on a character, you earn it for them. It is a time investment. A commitment to the achievement. What about that, entitles you, to having that freely given to all your other characters? You earn it on each character, it is an achievement, a title.....how entitled do you have to be to think because you earn it once on one character, that everyone else should just have it given to them? That is the epitome of 'everyone gets a trophy'.
[Quoted post Removed]
I think the reason for that is partly because we're responding to a specific argument relating to achievements and titles, and partly because we recognise that the status quo represents an acceptable compromise between those who'd like everything to be account-wide and those who'd prefer everything to be character-specific. It doesn't need to be all one way or the other, presumably that's why those wanting account-wide achievements and titles aren't arguing for e.g. quest xp to be account-wide too even if they believe that it's the player who completed the quest and not the character which is the logical extension of what some claim in respect of achievements and titles. There's a balance at the moment and while some want it shifted more towards the account-wide side of the argument others on the character-specific side are happy with leaving the balance where it is. That at least is my take on it, others may have other reasons.
It's also in my case nothing to do with being affected by what the player standing near me is up to, I'm not a competitive player and such comparisons are of no interest to me. For me it's also critically about the effect on my characters and the way I play them. They're all equal and individual and each one ploughs his own furrow in the game, I don't want them all lumped into one account-wide collection of achievements although I'm wholly in favour of having an account-wide summary of the achievements on the account and which character(s) earned them.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Step 3. Do not add titles to the account wide page so we dont have level 10 GOs and Flawless Conquerors running around.
while Im indifferent about titles this itself is asking for also locking skins, personalities, costumes, mounts etc, could be also dyes to be able to use only on character which earned them
why every time in topics like this titles are so big taboo but nobody is talking about already account wide rewards which I mentioned why nobody is talking here they would get this disabled on characters which didnt earn them
skooma_dealer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Step 3. Do not add titles to the account wide page so we dont have level 10 GOs and Flawless Conquerors running around.
while Im indifferent about titles this itself is asking for also locking skins, personalities, costumes, mounts etc, could be also dyes to be able to use only on character which earned them
why every time in topics like this titles are so big taboo but nobody is talking about already account wide rewards which I mentioned why nobody is talking here they would get this disabled on characters which didnt earn them
I find it very funny, actually. They always ignore this point.
Sheezabeast wrote: »It boggles my mind how people don't understand the principle of earning a title. You perform a feat on a character, you earn it for them. It is a time investment. A commitment to the achievement. What about that, entitles you, to having that freely given to all your other characters? You earn it on each character, it is an achievement, a title.....how entitled do you have to be to think because you earn it once on one character, that everyone else should just have it given to them? That is the epitome of 'everyone gets a trophy'.
[Quoted Post Removed]
I think the reason for that is partly because we're responding to a specific argument relating to achievements and titles, and partly because we recognise that the status quo represents an acceptable compromise between those who'd like everything to be account-wide and those who'd prefer everything to be character-specific. It doesn't need to be all one way or the other, presumably that's why those wanting account-wide achievements and titles aren't arguing for e.g. quest xp to be account-wide too even if they believe that it's the player who completed the quest and not the character which is the logical extension of what some claim in respect of achievements and titles.
Account wide achievements couldn't work unless everything was Account wide including skills, levels, crafting, pvp rank, guild lines, quest lines, skyshards ....everything has achievements tied to it
Sheezabeast wrote: »skooma_dealer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Step 3. Do not add titles to the account wide page so we dont have level 10 GOs and Flawless Conquerors running around.
while Im indifferent about titles this itself is asking for also locking skins, personalities, costumes, mounts etc, could be also dyes to be able to use only on character which earned them
why every time in topics like this titles are so big taboo but nobody is talking about already account wide rewards which I mentioned why nobody is talking here they would get this disabled on characters which didnt earn them
I find it very funny, actually. They always ignore this point.
Because there is a big difference between you, as a player, getting a reward for your account as a whole, to you, the player, and you, playing your character, getting a reward for your character, that you are playing. Your character and your entire account are two different things!!
Sheezabeast wrote: »^ I am going to say this with as much politeness and kindness as I can. Could someone in the OP's native language, please summarize what they are trying to convey in this post? I am struggling to understand what they are saying in it.