Nerfs: Lower mitigation, health, pen, dmg etc next patch

virtus753

remosito wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

The bolded part seems to be saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff lest patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

while slso taking some power out of the high-end

is pretty clear that not only cost is reduced. but as well what you get at max.

Yes, as well as the fact that they said “by two more stages” — a reference to the fact they lowered them by one on the PTS before releasing CP 2.0. When they did that, they cut the power along with the cost in the same way they seem to be doing here.

khyrkat

hands0medevil wrote: »

It's first MMO for me that punish players for fast leveling or being skilled.

You haven't played Neverwinter Online then. I have and I stopped when they effectively killed the game by taking 80% of players' power, destroyed variability in builds and started selling BIS gear for money (in f2p game). I wonder what kind of greedy people make games, I mean I work on games too but killing your own product is counterintuitive, in the end if people don't play the game you create, you're jobless. Sure every dev will say "you don't have to play our game" but hey, we surely don't have to so better start looking for another job.

Xuhora

calm your horses ladies and gentlemen

lets not waste a weekend with stressfull thoughts about what my or may not be implemented. we will see their intentions on mondays PTS patchnotes. Until then, enjoy the sun, enjoy the game, the families, friends and what ever floats your boat.

Will see you on monday in the PTS section.

remosito

Langeston wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

The bolded part seems to be saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff lest patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

while slso taking some power out of the high-end

is pretty clear that not only cost is reduced. but as well what you get at max.

I addressed that sentence here:

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

I disagree with your assessment of it.

and I disagree with yours.

what you are describing is a reduction in relative cp 3300 vs cp 810 power.

while taking out of the high end sounds like a reduction in absolute terms to my non native english hearing ears.

we shall see monday

Supreme_Atromancer

Avoranti wrote: »

The questions I have is related to the wording. It reads they are reducing passives by two stages but I think there needs to be more clarification. On one hand, reads like a nerf. On the other, reads like it would take less CP to earn the same % the passive grants. For instance, the passive to reduce non-player damage takes 40 cp to Max at 2% per stage totaling 8%. Does the proposed change mean it will only take 20 cp to reach the same 8%? Or are we assuming it would take 40cp to reach 4%?

The most direct translation is that they are removing two stages (without rescaling). It will be easier for the average player to become "optimised" in the new landscape, because there are less stages overall to reach.

Supreme_Atromancer

It feels like higher cp players are being gimped in order to "bring the ceiling down".

I understand the challenges they are facing - I don't support that there needs to be a massive power gap.

But at the same time, you've got players that have been playing for years with no legitimate sense of progression except for the faults of raw balancing, that are given and taken away so regularly people's heads are spinning.

We finally get the promised "progress", but our power and capabilities were not better, for all the cp we had earned all that time. They basically rescaled everything back to approximately the same power level as 810 cp, or sometimes worse.

Horizontal progression in theory is a great alternative, but that horizontal progress needs to count for something. My capabilities aren't broadening in any meaningful way, and I'm largely just shoe-horned.

Agenericname

colossalvoids wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience

I think its pretty clear their intent is a nerf, but then they added the CP for light and heavies back, which widens the gap again. Who knows?

I seriously though that removing that star was a deliberate balance decision and now they reintroduced it but nerfing other ones... Like what the heck is going in their heads is unknown still.

Like the DOT meta.

jle30303

And personally I think... lowering the ceiling is pretty much wrong anyway. Making it so that people can't do "today" what they could do "yesterday" is unequivocally bad.

Nord_Raseri

jle30303 wrote: »

And personally I think... lowering the ceiling is pretty much wrong anyway. Making it so that people can't do "today" what they could do "yesterday" is unequivocally bad.

Agreed

B0SSzombie

So...

Are they trying to change the meta desired sets from Bonus Critical to Bonus Penetration?

I don't get it. What's the goal here?

Starlock

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

It feels like higher cp players are being gimped in order to "bring the ceiling down".

It's not just that - this'll hit players across the board, just like CP 2.0 did. I'm not sure what the design goals are here, but CP bonuses help non-min/max players to do OK in content that is more challenging for them, as do various so-called "free damage" proc sets. Slapping these down slaps everyone down and if anything it hits non-min/maxer harder because we don't fixate on chasing numbers in the first place.

What they could have done to bring down the ceiling was create an actual ceiling (aka, cap CP, cap crit chance, crap pen, etc.). They keep not doing that, and so long as they keep not doing that, they'll keep hitting players like me collaterally.

Grandchamp1989

B0SSzombie wrote: »

So...

Are they trying to change the meta desired sets from Bonus Critical to Bonus Penetration?

I don't get it. What's the goal here?

I think their goal is to reduce the ceiling while raising the floor.
They're trying to do that by reducing the ceiling, walls and the floor at the same time.

It might not have the intended effect, just saying..

Fischblut

But you can't be nerfed if you play only for housing and roleplaying.

Sadly, even this part of game is nerfed One of my mounts lost almost all his special effects, and another mount is visually suffering from certain changes to behavior of light sources in the game... Lighting bug is also affecting a Personality, furniture in my houses, and visual image of certain overland items. Both problems are still not acknowledged, let alone fixed
Even cosmetics and roleplaying is not safe from bad changes.

Starlock

Fischblut wrote: »

But you can't be nerfed if you play only for housing and roleplaying.

Sadly, even this part of game is nerfed One of my mounts lost almost all his special effects, and another mount is visually suffering from certain changes to behavior of light sources in the game... Lighting bug is also affecting a Personality, furniture in my houses, and visual image of certain overland items. Both problems are still not acknowledged, let alone fixed
Even cosmetics and roleplaying is not safe from bad changes.

That and roleplaying can involve more game mechanics aspects that some may think. I definitely consider stuff like that when designing characters. I think about who they are and what they do, which means thinking about what skills they would (and wouldn't) have and what sets do (or do not) complement their identity and story.

In some regards the roleplayer's meta is as restrictive if not more restrictive than the power gamer's meta. While the power gamer chases numbers and is OK just swapping things out on the fly, a roleplayer chases character identity and CANNOT swap things out on the fly. When you chase character identity, game mechanics shakeups can be... well... sometimes there aren't any workarounds because the workarounds violate the character identity. You are just stuck.

Ardan147

ZOS be like

Artemis_X_

ZOS ain't thanos. They're not doing this to just half of us, we're all in the same boat, don't worry we'll all be fine!

WiseSky

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Huge nerfs.
Players complain rightfully.
Nerfs aren't reverted but a middle ground is found.
Always the same stuff.

Works every time, it’s a sales technique, first show the customer the most expensive item, then the other ones don’t seam as expensive.

redspecter23

Players raise legitimate concerns about green tree issues.

ZOS nerfs blue and red trees.

Sounds about right.

redspecter23

Artemis_X_ wrote: »

ZOS ain't thanos. They're not doing this to just half of us, we're all in the same boat, don't worry we'll all be fine!

By that same logic ZOS can remove all skills, levels, cosmetics and quests and leave us punching each other in an open sandbox and we'd all be fine because we were all hit with the same nerf?

Just because you are fine with the nerfs, it doesn't also mean that everyone else should automatically also be fine with them. I get that it doesn't bother you, but the idea of progression being stripped away at a whim is not something I'm overly fond of at all.

Grandchamp1989

furiouslog wrote: »

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

9:10 Nefasq confirms the nerfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqn_EmuqQM&t=184s&ab_channel=NefasQS

josiahva

lol, I reduced play time by over 75% from the last series of nerfs, They will be lucky if I log on once a month with a 2nd set of nerfs.

ZOS: "We hate tanks"
ZOS: "We are going to design all our content(especially solo content) around MOAR DPS"
ZOS: "Good DPS can only be achieved by the elite 1%"
ZOS: "The only way you will enjoy playing this game is if you build purely for DPS with no thought to anything else and only use the sets we decide you can use to do so"

You know what? They might as well get rid of any and all sets...just white gear, that will solve all their problems in one fell swoop. Might as well get rid of CP entirely while they are at it...and all skills...because that is what it feels like with every progressive patch in this game.

codierussell

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

Grandchamp1989

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Snowstrider

I hate this.. my character was finally becoming powerful...

codierussell

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Except you have no idea how this effects anything. For all we know they could also be adjusting the values for each stage. One little paragraph does not tell the whole story. Every PTS people scream about how dps has gone down and content is impossible but yet every patch I feel like damage goes up. The CP in FoA makes my group feel stronger than previous updates, meanwhile people were screaming about the new CP for 5 weeks.

Grandchamp1989

codierussell wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Except you have no idea how this effects anything. For all we know they could also be adjusting the values for each stage. One little paragraph does not tell the whole story. Every PTS people scream about how dps has gone down and content is impossible but yet every patch I feel like damage goes up. The CP in FoA makes my group feel stronger than previous updates, meanwhile people were screaming about the new CP for 5 weeks.

The writing is on the wall. You can ignore it sure, but it's all but confirmed at this point.
Come monday you'll see what we already know.
They nerfed it like they did in update 29 by removing levels from the CP perks. It's a straight up nerf across the board.

Joy_Division

codierussell wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Except you have no idea how this effects anything. For all we know they could also be adjusting the values for each stage. One little paragraph does not tell the whole story. Every PTS people scream about how dps has gone down and content is impossible but yet every patch I feel like damage goes up. The CP in FoA makes my group feel stronger than previous updates, meanwhile people were screaming about the new CP for 5 weeks.

Yes we do.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star ... taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

That means nerf and it's an unequivocal statement from ZOS's head combat lead.

Grandchamp1989

Joy_Division wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Except you have no idea how this effects anything. For all we know they could also be adjusting the values for each stage. One little paragraph does not tell the whole story. Every PTS people scream about how dps has gone down and content is impossible but yet every patch I feel like damage goes up. The CP in FoA makes my group feel stronger than previous updates, meanwhile people were screaming about the new CP for 5 weeks.

Yes we do.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star ... taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

That means nerf and it's an unequivocal statement from ZOS's head combat lead.

And confirmed by Nefasq
"Crit, mitigation and so on were toned down by quite a bit"

Ohtimbar

No worries, everything will change in a month or two, and again after that, and after that, and...

zvavi

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?