Nerfs: Lower mitigation, health, pen, dmg etc next patch

Grandchamp1989

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569953/update-30-combat-preview

9:10
Nefasq confirms the nerfs the fewer CP levels translate to nerfs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqn_EmuqQM&t=184s&ab_channel=NefasQS

Tanks:
Less mitigation, health, max ressource, lower block mitigation, proc sets being tied to weapon/spell dmg so that leaves out most selfish sets for new tanks (Winter's Respite, batallion defender, Leeching, Crimson etc). All around less survivability

Stamina DD:
Already struggling with penetration - we'll see even more of a pen nerf next patch if this goes through for an even wider gap between mag and stam.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Mag DD:
The sustain star will effectively also be cut in half.. Both recovery and the ressources you get pr. kill.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Ouch...

Sanguinor2

Well Zos told everyone that they intended to nerf us further. But maybe we can get an FAQ answer that tells us we will remain as powerful as pre CP rework again

Rex-Umbra

I don't understand why the changes to Damage tree its the crafting tree that seems a bit bare.

Remathilis

Y'all wanted harder overland...

Sanguinor2

Remathilis wrote: »

Y'all wanted harder overland...

And I´ll still oneshot every normal mob I come across with 1 spammable cast+LA weave. So yeah much harder such wow.

Grandchamp1989

Remathilis wrote: »

Y'all wanted harder overland...

I think people wanted the easiest content in the game to be Optionally harder - but not the hardest content in the game to be even harder lmfao.

I don't see a lot of threads "Sunspire Trifecta too easy, make it harder" XD

hands0medevil

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569953/update-30-combat-preview

Tanks:
Less mitigation, health, max ressource, lower block mitigation, proc sets being tied to weapon/spell dmg so that leaves out most selfish sets for new tanks (Winter's Respite, batallion defender, Leeching, Crimson etc). All around less survivability

Stamina DD:
Already struggling with penetration - we'll see even more of a pen nerf next patch if this goes through for an even wider gap between mag and stam.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Mag DD:
The sustain star will effectively also be cut in half.. Both recovery and the ressources you get pr. kill.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Ouch...

It's first MMO for me that punish players for fast leveling or being skilled.

But you can't be nerfed if you play only for housing and roleplaying.

shimm

I understand they wanted to reduce power creep but I’m really not sure what they’re going for now. And while I know quite a few people like the new CP, I hate it. They could have just kept the old system and lowered the percentages! I personally didn’t need them to move the goal posts so far away, it’s made me just not care as opposed to wanting to grind to 3600.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I expected nerfs to CP... but only if at least 50% + players would reach new CP cap (3600 ? ).

Did this already happened ???

Avoranti

The questions I have is related to the wording. It reads they are reducing passives by two stages but I think there needs to be more clarification. On one hand, reads like a nerf. On the other, reads like it would take less CP to earn the same % the passive grants. For instance, the passive to reduce non-player damage takes 40 cp to Max at 2% per stage totaling 8%. Does the proposed change mean it will only take 20 cp to reach the same 8%? Or are we assuming it would take 40cp to reach 4%?

Araneae6537

EDIT: Just read the announcement, not as bad as my first impression from this thread.

Changes to proc sets — great! I never encountered a tank who ran a set like Crimson even in normal PUG groups.

CP — so those of us who hadn’t yet the CP to max things shouldn’t feel much difference overall if I understand correctly.

etchedpixels

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569953/update-30-combat-preview

Tanks:
Less mitigation, health, max ressource, lower block mitigation, proc sets being tied to weapon/spell dmg so that leaves out most selfish sets for new tanks (Winter's Respite, batallion defender, Leeching, Crimson etc). All around less survivability

Stamina DD:
Already struggling with penetration - we'll see even more of a pen nerf next patch if this goes through for an even wider gap between mag and stam.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Mag DD:
The sustain star will effectively also be cut in half.. Both recovery and the ressources you get pr. kill.
Also Dmg nerf, less health and mitigation

Ouch...

U29 tank was a mixed bag - the changes made them overstrong whilst the heavy armour penalties just made it annoying and slower. The proc sets thing will be trickier. Some sets are meant to be tank sets so presumably they can tie them to different rules - which is what the original discussion hints at for certain gear. Other tank used sets like hitis and respite are going to be a bit trickier. U29 made all magicka shield spamming a win, looks like U30 is in danger of making it the meta and every toon in the game will have 64 magicka, run magicka gear and spam shields if tanking.

colossalvoids

Still unsure who actually asked them about it, a lot of people were already complaining about loosing power they had before and I'm not talking experienced players even, so the floor/mid yet again will have the most beating from it compared to optimised groups.

the1andonlyskwex

Avoranti wrote: »

The questions I have is related to the wording. It reads they are reducing passives by two stages but I think there needs to be more clarification. On one hand, reads like a nerf. On the other, reads like it would take less CP to earn the same % the passive grants. For instance, the passive to reduce non-player damage takes 40 cp to Max at 2% per stage totaling 8%. Does the proposed change mean it will only take 20 cp to reach the same 8%? Or are we assuming it would take
40cp to reach 4%?

By my reading, it will take 20cp to max out at 4%, but I'm certainly hoping it will be 20cp to reach 8%. We'll find out for sure on Monday.

I'm all for reducing the number/cost of passives in CP2.0, but I'm not really excited about losing even more mitigation than I've already lost relative to CP1.0. (I'm actually fine with the damage and healing nerfs though.)

Grandchamp1989

Avoranti wrote: »

The questions I have is related to the wording. It reads they are reducing passives by two stages but I think there needs to be more clarification. On one hand, reads like a nerf. On the other, reads like it would take less CP to earn the same % the passive grants. For instance, the passive to reduce non-player damage takes 40 cp to Max at 2% per stage totaling 8%. Does the proposed change mean it will only take 20 cp to reach the same 8%? Or are we assuming it would take 40cp to reach 4%?

They had the same wording in the previous PTS when they nerfed the stars to "lower vertical power"
And they just straight up cut the power of the CP back then.

When CP 2.0 first came out it used to provide 20% block mitigation.. Then they cut it to 6% and after this nerf I'm confident it'll be at 3%
The other stars should be getting the same treatment....

Aldia_of_Drangleic

This actually worries me. I hope this change is not made because of the new companions. I think we have to wait for it to be on PTS.

oddbasket

Just going to skip this year and come back next year when things have more or less settled.

Vlad9425

I’m actually so fed up of them constantly changing so much stuff. It’s like they have 0 clue on what they want the game to be.

Grandchamp1989

Vlad9425 wrote: »

I’m actually so fed up of them constantly changing so much stuff. It’s like they have 0 clue on what they want the game to be.

I've been saying this for a long time.

They balance this game every 3 months like a new MMO that just released.

After 5+ years the balance should be pretty stable.....

But every 3 months they use a sledgehammer to balance the game instead of a scalpel..

Agalloch

ESO -- the only MMO where if you grow and become powerful is a criminal act ..so any character progression is cut in half every 3 months.

So every 3 months we must start over to build our chars..and the harder content will be accessible only to 0.000001 % of the players.

Too bad...

We need explanations, ZOS!

Agalloch

Prepare for another Elder Nerfs Online!

remosito

oh god.

so instead of bringing ceiling down further by actually effective measures that curb the ridiculius dps gain perfect rotations give. Thus allowing gain from cps to stay same but lower amount of cp needed and give same gains to more people earlier.

they neuter the rather measly gain from cps even more?

glad I already decided to not renew eso+ and not buy chapter. so this just confirms my decision and as such feels good.

furiouslog

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

Agenericname

furiouslog wrote: »

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience

I think its pretty clear their intent is a nerf, but then they added the CP for light and heavies back, which widens the gap again. Who knows?

colossalvoids

Agenericname wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience

I think its pretty clear their intent is a nerf, but then they added the CP for light and heavies back, which widens the gap again. Who knows?

I seriously though that removing that star was a deliberate balance decision and now they reintroduced it but nerfing other ones... Like what the heck is going in their heads is unknown still.

Sanguinor2

furiouslog wrote: »

The language in the preview is unclear. Until it gets clarified, let's chill out and wait before we start complaining.

From Zos FAQ about the new CP system:
5. Total DPS output seems lower in CP2.0. What’s the reasoning for this? Will tanks/healers get more utility in CP2.0?
The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0, as there is a significant delta in power between many players. However, due to the penetration bug we saw on LIVE and PTS, we didn't fully reach that goal, and will continue investigating solutions, such as potentially reducing passive power from the CP system further, as well as looking into more outlying problems.

They told us that this is coming in advance.

DreadDaedroth

Huge nerfs.
Players complain rightfully.
Nerfs aren't reverted but a middle ground is found.
Always the same stuff.

Langeston

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

If you ignore everything but the bolded part:

We also are keenly aware of the ... concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible. To address these concerns, we are ... greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations[.]

It seems to me they're saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff last patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text ("while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.") just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

remosito

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

The bolded part seems to be saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff lest patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

while slso taking some power out of the high-end

is pretty clear that not only cost is reduced. but as well what you get at max.

jssriot

Vlad9425 wrote: »

I’m actually so fed up of them constantly changing so much stuff. It’s like they have 0 clue on what they want the game to be.

You are far from alone.

I started playing during the original vet system which, despite what some other long-time players who cannot remember how it really was back then might try to tell you, was incredibly bad game design, with painfully little rewards for long-time players. CP 1.0 improved that a LOT, but had so many flaws in the details that it made players more and more dissatisfied over time, but I thought it could have been easily improved.

I still cannot understand the reasoning behind the CP 2.0 overhaul, which despite ZOS having had years to plan it, seems put together not simply by committee, but by a committee given like 3 weeks to put it together. It's not intuitive, it doesn't reflect any real understanding of how people play the game, and in its attempts to simplify late-game progress into 3 trees, it really complicated things that shouldn't be made more complicated for vet players who understandably except certain things to be more rewarding, either by being easier or more powerful, for their time put into the game. Instead we have a vet player population who is either turning into a bunch of boring, one-dimensional zombies over how much they need to grind or has slowly resigned that this CP system is working against them, which is breeding discontent and apathy that probably isn't going to help retention of vet players in the long run. And this system has been live for barely a month. Good job, ZOS.

But to be honest, ZOS acts like many tech companies these days. They are acting like retention of most of the vet player base isn't a big deal because they can replace them by attracting newer players with new content and bells and whistles. There is really only a very small portion of vet players they really seem to care about--players who help ZOS promote the game and lead the community for them. But that's not the majority of vet players, who ZOS seems to be telling, again like under the original vet system, to go suck an egg. It almost feels like for those of us who aren't community reps, Twitch streamer or guildmasters, ZOS has decided maybe it's better to drive a lot of us away, and eventually let us be replaced by newer players who, having leveled up under a new system (when and if they even figure one out), don't have the expectations that current vet players have.

Langeston

remosito wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

The bolded part seems to be saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff lest patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

while slso taking some power out of the high-end

is pretty clear that not only cost is reduced. but as well what you get at max.

I addressed that sentence here:

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

I disagree with your assessment of it.