Nerfs: Lower mitigation, health, pen, dmg etc next patch

Mahabahabtha

Ohtimbar wrote: »

No worries, everything will change in a month or two, and again after that, and after that, and...

and it will go no better, no better, no better after that and that and that....
Headquarters
Next year we run all with the same Armour....because too strong Sets lead to Power Creep, and that isn´t liked @ZOS Headquarters...

Grandchamp1989

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

Hardy and Elemental defender at max will literally translate to 2% in each hahah

The pooooower!

CP 1.0 it was what? 20% 25% ? XD

zvavi

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

Hardy and Elemental defender at max will literally translate to 2% in each hahah

The pooooower!

CP 1.0 it was what? 20% 25% ? XD

15% I think. I was genuinely looking forward for that 5% to mitigate the 7% bonus damage I am taking. Now it is 4%. Next patch 2%. I wish luck to all the godslayer prog groups to finish before patch.

Ellimist_Entreri

codierussell wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I love how everyone is already complaining about the changes and they haven't even been announced. Like can you at least wait for the patch notes to come out to start complaining? If you really want to complain this much play another game if even speculations make you complain on a forum.

check post 51

Zos made an official announcement and it was been confirmed by youtuber who got early access.

Except you have no idea how this effects anything. For all we know they could also be adjusting the values for each stage. One little paragraph does not tell the whole story. Every PTS people scream about how dps has gone down and content is impossible but yet every patch I feel like damage goes up. The CP in FoA makes my group feel stronger than previous updates, meanwhile people were screaming about the new CP for 5 weeks.

The effects are known:

Masel wrote: »

This is false. They've just taken out stages, cutting power in half.(...)

See posts 25 & 28 in the following thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570048/am-i-understanding-the-combat-preview-correctly/p1

Grandchamp1989

zvavi wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

Hardy and Elemental defender at max will literally translate to 2% in each hahah

The pooooower!

CP 1.0 it was what? 20% 25% ? XD

15% I think. I was genuinely looking forward for that 5% to mitigate the 7% bonus damage I am taking. Now it is 4%. Next patch 2%. I wish luck to all the godslayer prog groups to finish before patch.

Patch 28: 15%
Patch 29: 4%
Patch 30: 2%
Patch 31: 1% bous and then it starts to go into the negatives Hahaha
Patch 33 -4% resistances XD

But atleast the devs promise us we'll still be as strong with 1800 CP and we were at CP 810, who needs math?

Pink_Pixie

I tend to think @Langeston has pointed out exactly as I read it and understood it, before reading other peoples comments. And I sure hope it's the case, to lower the cost to gain the same power. As I do hope more nerfs aren't coming, which many people are assuming. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

itscompton

oddbasket wrote: »

Just going to skip this year and come back next year when things have more or less settled.

Hahahahahahaha the idea ESO devs would be able to ever actually go more than six months without making major changes to combat/gear mechanics is the most fantastical thing I've ever read in the forums.

Sanguinor2

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Patch 28: 15%
Patch 29: 4%
Patch 30: 2%
Patch 31: 1% bous and then it starts to go into the negatives Hahaha
Patch 33 -4% resistances XD

But atleast the devs promise us we'll still be as strong with 1800 CP and we were at CP 810, who needs math?

Actually they told us in their FAQ for CP 2.0 launch that an 810 CP player from CP 2.0 would feel just as strong as an 810 player from CP1.0 And no thats not a joke.

itscompton

Artemis_X_ wrote: »

ZOS ain't thanos. They're not doing this to just half of us, we're all in the same boat, don't worry we'll all be fine!

Yeah, like it would have been so much better if Thanos had just cut everyone's life span in half instead of killing half the people right?

zvavi

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Patch 28: 15%
Patch 29: 4%
Patch 30: 2%
Patch 31: 1% bous and then it starts to go into the negatives Hahaha
Patch 33 -4% resistances XD

But atleast the devs promise us we'll still be as strong with 1800 CP and we were at CP 810, who needs math?

Actually they told us in their FAQ for CP 2.0 launch that an 810 CP player from CP 2.0 would feel just as strong as an 810 player from CP1.0 And no thats not a joke.

We know. And no, I don't feel as strong I felt. And I am 1300 CP.

Tigertron

Avoranti wrote: »

The questions I have is related to the wording. It reads they are reducing passives by two stages but I think there needs to be more clarification. On one hand, reads like a nerf. On the other, reads like it would take less CP to earn the same % the passive grants. For instance, the passive to reduce non-player damage takes 40 cp to Max at 2% per stage totaling 8%. Does the proposed change mean it will only take 20 cp to reach the same 8%? Or are we assuming it would take 40cp to reach 4%?

They did it once before when it was on PTS. So it's going to be 20 cp to max it at 4%. Use that 20 CP somewhere else.

This squashes the vertical and forces horizontal. So you will have much less passive abilities and will require you to swap out stars for other (IMO specialized) powers. For me it will be maybe one or two stars. And only in certain trails where I need single target vs AoE. Or I want que as a healer

Tigertron

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

If you ignore everything but the bolded part:

We also are keenly aware of the ... concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible. To address these concerns, we are ... greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations[.]

It seems to me they're saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff last patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text ("while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.") just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

I agree. no one can slot more than 8 combat stars. 4 are for damage 4 are for mitigation. A lower CP player will now have more CP to put into slotable stars and have the passives maxed out. It will take much less than the 1200 CP to do that. Maybe 810. So now any CP over what gets you all the passives you need and the 8 stars goes straight to things you don't need but might need. Maybe. One day. Maybe not.

So if you look at the big picture from CP1.0 to 2.0 low CP is now all you really need. High CP does very little except make crafting stuff easier.

RogueShark

I was just complaining to another stam DD in my otherwise all mag trial groups that it's already obnoxious enough to try and get to pen cap for stam if supports go all-in for helping mag.

I really hope we don't lose more of what very little pen we can scrape together from CP for stam. It's very hard to make up.

Tigertron

RogueShark wrote: »

I was just complaining to another stam DD in my otherwise all mag trial groups that it's already obnoxious enough to try and get to pen cap for stam if supports go all-in for helping mag.

I really hope we don't lose more of what very little pen we can scrape together from CP for stam. It's very hard to make up.

I suggest going for the rezzing star. Us Stam DD are marginalized in trails by our low mitigation and health and the fact that we MUST stand close. Then we are given crap range abilities. Yeah, dedicated rezzer seems like our future.

Everest_Lionheart

Tigertron wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

If you ignore everything but the bolded part:

We also are keenly aware of the ... concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible. To address these concerns, we are ... greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations[.]

It seems to me they're saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff last patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text ("while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.") just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

I agree. no one can slot more than 8 combat stars. 4 are for damage 4 are for mitigation. A lower CP player will now have more CP to put into slotable stars and have the passives maxed out. It will take much less than the 1200 CP to do that. Maybe 810. So now any CP over what gets you all the passives you need and the 8 stars goes straight to things you don't need but might need. Maybe. One day. Maybe not.

So if you look at the big picture from CP1.0 to 2.0 low CP is now all you really need. High CP does very little except make crafting stuff easier.

Except they put some of the stronger mitigation slotables on the blue tree with the damage slotables. So in addition the the nerf to dps you need to nerf yourself further through slotables in order to survive. Go back and look at the bottom of the blue tree again and you will see.

SidraWillowsky

Aldia_of_Drangleic wrote: »

This actually worries me. I hope this change is not made because of the new companions. I think we have to wait for it to be on PTS.

Oh god, I hope not. I do NOT want to basically be required to use a companion.

To ZOS: How is this raising the floor and lowering the ceiling exactly? My DDs are already much squishier. The ceiling is going to be fine; their groups are so coordinated that they don't need to worry. It's everyone else who is going to suffer here.

This is BEYOND absurd. I'm not a huge fan of CP 2.0, but it's workable right now. It's a pain to grind, but at CP 1300, my damage is ~ -5% where it used to be, though I choose to build as more of a glass cannon.

With the U30 changes, I'm going to be far more glass and much less cannon. I worry that they're doing this so that the companions make up for the lost damage. If that's the case, we're facing another situation where the companions only seem powerful because ZOS is taking that DPS from the player and giving it to the companion.

Joy_Division

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

This is correct.

Zos seems to be under the impression that when things get nerfed, it affects the "ceiling" more than the floor. This is backward. The "ceiling" get annoyed, yet adapts, whereas the "floor" most of the time just eats the nerf (because if the had the gear, the CP, the # alts, the experience, etc. to adapt, they wouldn;t be the "floor".)

zvavi

Joy_Division wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

This is correct.

Zos seems to be under the impression that when things get nerfed, it affects the "ceiling" more than the floor. This is backward. The "ceiling" get annoyed, yet adapts, whereas the "floor" most of the time just eats the nerf (because if the had the gear, the CP, the # alts, the experience, etc. to adapt, they wouldn't be the "floor".)

It looks like they want to nerf us more. nothing more, nothing less. I mean, assuming we are getting nerfed anyway, I am happy it at least means we can have the end of vertical progression in the end of 1200 CP. The question on the table is Why are we getting nerfed? Most of the high CP players, that sub, hate dlc dungeons and trials. They are moving ESO + benefits (dlc dungeons) farther away from the casual player base. Additionally, dlc dungeons are now unlocked sooner in new player's eso career making them go into them when They are not even close to being ready. If ZOS really cares about their accessibility (which is definitely not what these changes are doing) what they need to do is creating proper, with various difficulty levels, tutorials, for all 3 roles.

Ergele

sooo, instead of making overland harder they made us weaker.

Not enough but ok

Stahlor

Next patch will be CP penalty - the more CP you have, the weaker you become...

ApostateHobo

This is seriously annoying. We already got nerfed with cp 2.0 now we're getting nerfed again. The passives are super weak already, why on earth do they need to be toned down more? Just make it take less cp to get the same effect, no cut both the cp cost and effect in half.

Everest_Lionheart

zvavi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

This is correct.

Zos seems to be under the impression that when things get nerfed, it affects the "ceiling" more than the floor. This is backward. The "ceiling" get annoyed, yet adapts, whereas the "floor" most of the time just eats the nerf (because if the had the gear, the CP, the # alts, the experience, etc. to adapt, they wouldn't be the "floor".)

It looks like they want to nerf us more. nothing more, nothing less. I mean, assuming we are getting nerfed anyway, I am happy it at least means we can have the end of vertical progression in the end of 1200 CP. The question on the table is Why are we getting nerfed? Most of the high CP players, that sub, hate dlc dungeons and trials. They are moving ESO + benefits (dlc dungeons) farther away from the casual player base. Additionally, dlc dungeons are now unlocked sooner in new player's eso career making them go into them when They are not even close to being ready. If ZOS really cares about their accessibility (which is definitely not what these changes are doing) what they need to do is creating proper, with various difficulty levels, tutorials, for all 3 roles.

A tutorial isn’t going to help much when you simply just can’t mitigate enough damage to stay off the floor. DPS doesn’t really matter. I’ve been though all the HM song wins with players under 45k DPS and it amounts to little more that a couple extra rounds of mechanics. There are mechs I could survive in the old CP system that will 1 shot me today.

I don’t care that my DPS has dropped from 85-80. I don’t care if it drops to 75 because that’s more than enough. I care that I can’t fend of some of the simple mechs like shielding and blocking through Starfall on vHRC HM, which isn’t even that hard of a trial but under the new system I can barely survive while blocking with my 28K hp, harness magicka, spirit guardian, summoners armor and healing springs from my healer going. That’s literally everything I can do to survive and I’m barely making it. If I start with 2k less HP I’m dead.

I also can’t block cast harness Magicka and coagulating blood and survive vAS+1 cone+kite mechanic like I could under the old CP system. This is an instant kill now for me just have to eat it and take the death.

I don’t want to imagine vSS portal boss on HM where you have 90 seconds of the most punishing mechs in the game to kill a mini boss with 11.6mil HP. I don’t know how players are going to walk that delicate rope right now. Would love to see that no-cp team over a zos do a godslayer run and report back.

Castagere

Remathilis wrote: »

Y'all wanted harder overland...

So ZOS is finally listening to the vocal minority.

Rkindaleft

Langeston wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With them effectively cutting the power of all the champion points in half next patch if PTS goes through like this...

You're the third or fourth person I've seen freaking out about this, but I think you're mistaken — I don't think that's what ZOS said they're doing at all.

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

The bolded part seems to be saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff lest patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

while slso taking some power out of the high-end

is pretty clear that not only cost is reduced. but as well what you get at max.

I addressed that sentence here:

The part after the bolded text just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting buffed.

I disagree with your assessment of it.

Masel already provided a statement from the test server that both are getting toned down, the number of CP needed, and to counteract this, the benefit the CP star actually gives you is halfed. So, you can be lower CP and still get the full benefit from CP quicker. However, the CP benefit was halfed, so it's inarguably and objectively a nerf compared to now.

jle30303

Basically? Please stop nerfing stuff, it ALWAYS hurts the floor more than the ceiling!

Vlad9425

Castagere wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

Y'all wanted harder overland...

So ZOS is finally listening to the vocal minority.

They listen to the vocal minority for everything though! This includes nerfs for people who would rather go on the forums and type out nerf threads instead of actually learning and getting better at the game.

UntilValhalla13

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I will be honest, I did see it coming, and tbh, I will adapt. So will you. And most hardcore players in this thread. We will all deal less damage (just like the 5% nerf of previous CP changes), but we will be fine.
The ones are getting hit the most from it, are the house. The ones strangling to hit 70k/80k. The ones that have harder time keeping up their dots, weaving, and doing stuff at the same time. The ones that barely survive the hard content on their tanks. Worst of all, these changes don't even buff lower CP players but only nerfs higher CP players.
I really don't understand what is going on through their mind, what is the point of CP, if it is practically useless? Why even have passive cp's if they are that bad? Can you genuinely imagine a player rejoicing he got to a certain passive?

This is correct.

Zos seems to be under the impression that when things get nerfed, it affects the "ceiling" more than the floor. This is backward. The "ceiling" get annoyed, yet adapts, whereas the "floor" most of the time just eats the nerf (because if the had the gear, the CP, the # alts, the experience, etc. to adapt, they wouldn't be the "floor".)

It looks like they want to nerf us more. nothing more, nothing less. I mean, assuming we are getting nerfed anyway, I am happy it at least means we can have the end of vertical progression in the end of 1200 CP. The question on the table is Why are we getting nerfed? Most of the high CP players, that sub, hate dlc dungeons and trials. They are moving ESO + benefits (dlc dungeons) farther away from the casual player base. Additionally, dlc dungeons are now unlocked sooner in new player's eso career making them go into them when They are not even close to being ready. If ZOS really cares about their accessibility (which is definitely not what these changes are doing) what they need to do is creating proper, with various difficulty levels, tutorials, for all 3 roles.

A tutorial isn’t going to help much when you simply just can’t mitigate enough damage to stay off the floor. DPS doesn’t really matter. I’ve been though all the HM song wins with players under 45k DPS and it amounts to little more that a couple extra rounds of mechanics. There are mechs I could survive in the old CP system that will 1 shot me today.

I don’t care that my DPS has dropped from 85-80. I don’t care if it drops to 75 because that’s more than enough. I care that I can’t fend of some of the simple mechs like shielding and blocking through Starfall on vHRC HM, which isn’t even that hard of a trial but under the new system I can barely survive while blocking with my 28K hp, harness magicka, spirit guardian, summoners armor and healing springs from my healer going. That’s literally everything I can do to survive and I’m barely making it. If I start with 2k less HP I’m dead.

I also can’t block cast harness Magicka and coagulating blood and survive vAS+1 cone+kite mechanic like I could under the old CP system. This is an instant kill now for me just have to eat it and take the death.

I don’t want to imagine vSS portal boss on HM where you have 90 seconds of the most punishing mechs in the game to kill a mini boss with 11.6mil HP. I don’t know how players are going to walk that delicate rope right now. Would love to see that no-cp team over a zos do a godslayer run and report back.

Some of us are already struggling with vss hm portals this patch. I don't even want to bother if it's going to get much worse. Unfortunately, the people making these changes have never stepped foot in vss hm. They just watch some of the best players in the world go through it, and are like "Yeah, the spreadsheet says that's doable. It's fine."

carlos424

It’s all to promote the companions. “Oh, you don’t think you will want or need companions, huh? We’ll show you!” Nerf hammer!!!

Avoranti

My question is, who’s giving them all this feedback suggesting nerfs are needed? Or changes needed? Because from what I’ve been reading on forums, in-game and Facebook is no player asked for this. No player complained they were too strong, especially after cp 2.0. All the testing they did to try and find a solution to lag issues in pvp failed to produce the results they were looking for, yet they still removed proc sets (and new changing them again).

It’s like they keep reaching for the longest straw and come up short every time. At the end of the day it’s their game, I get it, but I haven’t read anyone (or a very small minority) suggesting any of these changes needed to happen.

When they say “we’ve heard your feedback”... who’s feedback? Who? Tell us who’s asking for this?

Waseem

I Like nerfs in ESO, it makes the game playable.

When I want buffs I turn on GTA SA and use the pizza trainer for infinite ammo and health and all good