Is it wrong to inquire about RLF gender to your in-game friends?

ThorianB

Some people will be offended that you are asking a well intentioned, well thought out question no matter how its asked.

I can only speak from my own experience here as a MMO gamer of 20 plus years.

• The 85% thing might be pretty close across the board. But it really depends on the game. A game like PUBG or FIFA Online is going to have a lower number of females just because of the nature of those games and the much lower levels of interest in those subjects( war/murder/sports) from women. ESO has a much higher percentage of women than those types of games. I would say probably 25-40% of ESO players are female because this game is more appealing to that gender. For example for every 1 woman i meet in a PUBG match, i meet probably 10 in ESO.
• I am male and play mostly male characters. I do play female characters sometimes just for variety, but 4 out of 5 times when i roll a new character its going to be male. I play female solely for the variety. I hate when games don't give me choices on gender, class, race, etc. Even if that would be a character i might of chosen myself, i didn't get to choose and that annoys me.
• I wouldn't get offended if someone asked me my gender( my username in game is gender neutral) but i normally associate guys who ask in game with pervs who want to know real genders so they can flirt/ hit on girls. That is from experience and i do personally know a few people( not in this game) that pretend to be male( don't talk on voice) so they don't have a bunch of hornballs harassing them and hanging on them all the time. I don't see a lot of that behavior in ESO from a third party perspective( and my wife plays so i would know if she is being " harassed" for being a girl) and i chalk that up to ESO's community seems to be older/more mature than many other games.
• I think asking someone's RL gender in game can throw a red flag to many girl gamers who have had issues with over eager males in the past. If you are truly a student of psychology, then you might learn a better approach is to get them to reveal their gender to you in normal conversation. People normally drop clues about their real gender when you have real conversations with them( like a friend). For example, if we are having a normal conversation in game and i say something about my wife, then you can assume that there is a 99% chance that i am male. You can assume this because less than 1% of the couples in the world are same sex. When you add other gender differences like speech patterns, how someone plays the game, subjects that person talks about, you can with almost 100% certainty determine someone's gender purely through observations and normal questions.

Sevn

A couple of things-

1- Define what you considered flirting in this instance.

2- Were they flirting with you or your character as that's a pretty important distinction.

Just trying to understand what actions happened to your female character ingame that would have you think those sentiments are meant for you, the character behind the character.

Goregrinder

echo2omega wrote: »

Food for though.

What happens when you treat everyone with the same dignity and respect that you would expect others to show to you?

People will take advantage of it and screw you over in the end. It's a dog eat dog world out there.

KMarble

One of the beauties of an MMO for me is the fact that I'm completely incognito and (hopefully) only judged by my actions, without preconceived ideas about what I can or cannot do due to my physical appearance.

I never directly asked, nor was ever asked about my gender. Tbh, I'd be leery of someone who did. I don't use the game to find a romantic partner, nor need affirmations about my own gender.

Araneae6537

No, you should not ask, not because the question itself is offensive, but why would it matter? I mean, if you’re talking and it comes up naturally in conversation, fine, but otherwise, it seems to indicate entertaining a beyond game interest or a judgement of their in-game character choices. That’s just how I feel about it based on interactions I’ve had.

As others have said, it’s best to just go with the in game character unless the player indicates a different preference. I play both male and female characters and don’t mind being assumed male while playing a male character but yeah, it does bother me a bit when I’m playing a female. (I’m not referring to referring to a group as “guys” because I understand it to be gender neutral in that context.) I rarely correct the person, much less make any kind of deal about it, but it still annoys me, especially “thx bro” or whatever, but at least they thanked me, right?

redlink1979

To me the gender of who is behind a char is just irrelevant.

SilverBride

I can usually tell what gender a player is by the things they say. I have been wrong but it's rare. I hate to attribute this to male and female stereotypes, but that does play into it.

I have asked before, but only after I've known someone awhile and just wasn't positive. Why would I care? Because I like to know who the person I'm friends with is.

I've also been asked and didn't feel anything negative by it.

I really don't understand why anyone would find this an offensive question.

Elvenheart

Danikat wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Here's a bigger thought provoker for you:

How many of the male characters are being played by women?

How many of the people playing this game are transgender, or non-binary? Do they play characters that reflect their genetic sex, their physical sex (which may differ from their genetic sex, depending on gender conformation treatments), their gender identity? All of the above? Does it impact you in any way if they do or do not do any of those things?

How many of the people playing this game are intersex? What sex are the characters they play?!

As a student of psychology, I'm sure you're able to recognize that if this is indeed "an academic question" into which "scientific research has been put," this is not in any way the appropriate approach to gather information for "academic" purposes.

OTOH, perhaps people just enjoy playing opposite sex characters for the hell of it, to do something different, and there's no meaning to it at all other than you can make a cool-looking opposite-sex toon in an MMO game.

That's certainly my thinking. I always find myself wondering why the characters sex or gender seems to be the only choice which raises this question.

No one ever asks why some of us choose to play a non-human character when we're human in real life (or why we'd choose to play a human when this is a chance to do something different), or why I'd choose to use magic or a two-handed axe when I can't do either of those things in real life. All of the other choices made during character creation seem to be treated as just part of the game and players are free to choose whatever they want without anyone questioning their motives, but for some reason the character's gender is treated differently and people are always surprised by other people who do or don't play their own gender and want to work out why they make that choice.

For me it's all about what fits the character. I'll take whatever my starting point is (I want to make a sorcerer, or a breton, or a crafter or a character who will use a healing staff and double daggers, or whatever) and then imagine what sort of person that would be, based on the game lore. I'll make up their back story alongside deciding things like which Alliance they'll join and what class or race they'll be and decide their gender at the same time. It's nothing to do with me and all about how I see the character.

When people wonder if I’m really human I don’t mind saying I’m an elf in real life. It may or may not be true, but I still don’t mind saying it. 🧝‍♂️ 🧝🏻‍♀️ 🧝

Araneae6537

SilverBride wrote: »

I can usually tell what gender a player is by the things they say. I have been wrong but it's rare. I hate to attribute this to male and female stereotypes, but that does play into it.

I have asked before, but only after I've known someone awhile and just wasn't positive. Why would I care? Because I like to know who the person I'm friends with is.

I've also been asked and didn't feel anything negative by it.

I really don't understand why anyone would find this an offensive question.

Have you not had guys treat you differently after finding out? (I’m assuming from your forum name that you’re female!) It’s been a while and in a different game, but I’ve had it happen when I’ve joined voice chat, or people I had been friends with then treat me differently and there were problems, and then back when I used to rp the question was just one of several indicating misplaced irl interest. So, I wouldn’t be offended but I might feel very uncomfortable and probably find a reason to leave the situation and avoid that person/group in the future. I’m not saying that no one that I now game with knows I’m female, but it was learned organically and I mostly only play with people who don’t care anyway so then it’s fine. I hope that makes sense!

cynicalbutterfly

I honestly don't mind being asked my real gender but some might think it's rude to ask. There's really no way to determine what is the right thing to do since everyone is different. Personally, I assume based on their way of speech in chat or if I can't determine gender, I use neutral pronouns. I don't think I've ever asked real gender and probably won't in the future. It just doesn't really matter to me. I have been asked though and I've answered with the truth. No point in lying about a fact of nature.

On another note, I am a woman that plays on both male and female characters. My main character is male. As someone said to me years ago in another mmo, if I'm going to be looking at a butt then it might as well be one I like to look at. My alt is a female simply because I had custumes that leaned on the female model style. I'm certainly not going to put my male in a dress. That would just ruin his ego (and it's quite large being he's a necromancer). I enjoy playing on both. I make characters that I like to look at and I'll keep remaking a character 20 times before I'm satisfied.

I don't roleplay either. Just not interested in that type of thing. I do have back stories for my characters like where they grew up and how they became what they are. But that doesn't factor into my actual playing or chatting in game. The person you talk to in game is me, not my character.

Theosis

Ive had maybe 7 conversations in game in the last 2 months.. I think Ive begun turning into a robot.

SickleCider

I personally know more women that play this game than I know men and 100% of those women, including myself, have masculine toons. My main is a man. I have never participated in a trial that had fewer than about three women I don't know personally. Often there are more.

SilverBride

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Have you not had guys treat you differently after finding out?

Guys tend to assume I'm female and treat me like one, whether I've verified it or not. That's one of the things that clues me in that they really are male, too.

I've tried playing male characters but just couldn't get into it. But there is a definite difference in how I was treated on a male compared to a female character.

But how is this different than real life interactions?

Wolf_Eye

I've had a VERY horrible experience in the past with regards to someone asking my gender that resulted in him literally STALKING me in the game. Chasing after me and constantly whispering me a combination of hate whispers and horny whispers. Yes, I kid you not; he was both turned on and pissed off that a girl was playing a video game. I got scared, blocked him, reported him, and then logged off for like an entire week.

Thankfully, it was not ESO. ESO is, by far, a lot NICER of a community than the previous game I played before. I don't even think I've had random people flirt with me, which I'm very thankful for. I came to play a video game, after all; not Tinder.

I dunno. I think it would be a little weird and suspicious to ask someone's gender out of the blue. But then, ESO is a much better community that maybe people wouldn't automatically assume you've got an ulterior motive.

tc91101

I pretty much don't pay any attention to people's real life other than a few friends that I play with. Other than that even if I figure out who someone sort of is I forget it pretty quick. I guess I would be defined as a solo player playing in a group world. As a male, I personally play more female toons than male simply because I'd rather look at a female model than a male model. I prefer not to play certain races because their models are flat out ugly. I figure if I'm going to be looking at a toon most of the time I might as well pick one that I like looking at.

Araneae6537

[edited: nothing to see here, carry on]

Cendrillion21

I never ask anyone this question, I just treat them as their character's gender.

If someone is flirting with you and you need to know their gender, ask them to get on voice with you. If they refuse or say their headset is broken, etc., they're probably roleplaying a different gender.

SilverBride

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What do real life interactions have to do with it? In real life, risk of some unpleasantness cannot be avoided without avoiding people altogether, but why should that mean we must open the door for it in games? I am not saying no one should say if they wish, they can share whatever they want about themselves I suppose, but there are very good reasons why people may not wish to do so.

You can't expect people to treat each other in game differently than how things are in real life. It's bound to carry over into the game.

SickleCider

I would like to come back to say that you'd probably get a lot more mileage if you dropped the "student of psychology" pretense (🥱) and asked the honest question. You said in a later post that someone flirted with you and that's why you're wondering. You'll get a more focused conversation and rub fewer people the wrong way.

Araneae6537

SilverBride wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What do real life interactions have to do with it? In real life, risk of some unpleasantness cannot be avoided without avoiding people altogether, but why should that mean we must open the door for it in games? I am not saying no one should say if they wish, they can share whatever they want about themselves I suppose, but there are very good reasons why people may not wish to do so.

You can't expect people to treat each other in game differently than how things are in real life. It's bound to carry over into the game.

I can demand respect. And the topic of the thread was about asking someone’s irl gender. Why would someone want to know? To know whether they should treat me differently then? Hard pass. Anyone gets weird with me, I’m ghosting them faster than they can say “boo!”

SilverBride

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

You can't expect people to treat each other in game differently than how things are in real life. It's bound to carry over into the game.

I can demand respect. And the topic of the thread was about asking someone’s irl gender. Why would someone want to know? To know whether they should treat me differently then? Hard pass. Anyone gets weird with me, I’m ghosting them faster than they can say “boo!”

I don't understand how asking someone's gender is disrespectful. In real life we are looking at the person, hearing them speak, and except in certain situations their gender is obvious. In game it is not so clear.

Why would someone want to know? As I previously mentioned, if I become friends with someone I like to know who they are. This is just one fact friends find out about each other as the friendship develops.

I don't care if other players know I'm a female. It's not something I feel I need to hide for whatever reason. If someone becomes inappropriate because of it I'd warn them and end the friendship. If they persist I'd take screenshots, report them and put them on ignore. But that is something wrong with their personality, not my gender.

KalyanLazair

.

KalyanLazair

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I can usually tell what gender a player is by the things they say. I have been wrong but it's rare. I hate to attribute this to male and female stereotypes, but that does play into it.

I have asked before, but only after I've known someone awhile and just wasn't positive. Why would I care? Because I like to know who the person I'm friends with is.

I've also been asked and didn't feel anything negative by it.

I really don't understand why anyone would find this an offensive question.

Have you not had guys treat you differently after finding out? (I’m assuming from your forum name that you’re female!) It’s been a while and in a different game, but I’ve had it happen when I’ve joined voice chat, or people I had been friends with then treat me differently and there were problems, and then back when I used to rp the question was just one of several indicating misplaced irl interest. So, I wouldn’t be offended but I might feel very uncomfortable and probably find a reason to leave the situation and avoid that person/group in the future. I’m not saying that no one that I now game with knows I’m female, but it was learned organically and I mostly only play with people who don’t care anyway so then it’s fine. I hope that makes sense!

I can't speak for SilverBride but in my personal experience, no, it hasn't changed anything. Been playing for over 10 years in MMO. Been in Eve Online for a long time and I've played with plenty of guys because that's an eggplant plantation, and they've treated me just like they treated everyone else. There was this one moment where I was flying a cruiser and the rest of the group was on frigs. We got dropped upon by a larger fleet and my slower ship got scramed. They got their hides away and when I said; "you cowards, don't leave me alone" they said; "yeah, no, you get yourself out of there". They would do that to anyone, not just me. XD

Good times. Good times indeed.

Magdalina

Eh, I really don't see the big issue with asking about gender (assuming that's not the first line in your entire communication history with said person lol). Personally, I feel more comfortable knowing my...I'm struggling to think of a good word here...companion? Interlocutor (does anyone use this word?XD)?...gender, I'm also naturally curious. It doesn't mean I jump every person I group with with weird questions, but if I friend them, we run things together and evolve from 'wanna dps X?' to some random friendly chatter, I'll probably ask. Granted, at that point I'm also likely to ask about age, whereabouts, favourite weather and all that stuff lol, I get chatty sometimes. It can be really interesting to talk to people from all over the world about all sorts of different things, and ESO's honestly been great for that for me.

Never had any issues with that. I think I may have run into a couple people who in answer to my polite inquiry politely said they prefer not to reveal any personal details online and we proceeded to running things together and chatting about game-only matters just fine.

FluffWit

I won't really go to much effort for anyone who doesn't use a mic these days. Other then the one or two deaf guildies I have.

Met too many people in the past who wouldn't use their voice that turned out to be complete weirdos.

Goregrinder

KalyanLazair wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I can usually tell what gender a player is by the things they say. I have been wrong but it's rare. I hate to attribute this to male and female stereotypes, but that does play into it.

I have asked before, but only after I've known someone awhile and just wasn't positive. Why would I care? Because I like to know who the person I'm friends with is.

I've also been asked and didn't feel anything negative by it.

I really don't understand why anyone would find this an offensive question.

Have you not had guys treat you differently after finding out? (I’m assuming from your forum name that you’re female!) It’s been a while and in a different game, but I’ve had it happen when I’ve joined voice chat, or people I had been friends with then treat me differently and there were problems, and then back when I used to rp the question was just one of several indicating misplaced irl interest. So, I wouldn’t be offended but I might feel very uncomfortable and probably find a reason to leave the situation and avoid that person/group in the future. I’m not saying that no one that I now game with knows I’m female, but it was learned organically and I mostly only play with people who don’t care anyway so then it’s fine. I hope that makes sense!

I can't speak for SilverBride but in my personal experience, no, it hasn't changed anything. Been playing for over 10 years in MMO. Been in Eve Online for a long time and I've played with plenty of guys because that's an eggplant plantation, and they've treated me just like they treated everyone else. There was this one moment where I was flying a cruiser and the rest of the group was on frigs. We got dropped upon by a larger fleet and my slower ship got scramed. They got their hides away and when I said; "you cowards, don't leave me alone" they said; "yeah, no, you get yourself out of there". They would do that to anyone, not just me. XD

Good times. Good times indeed.

It's always scary when a bunch of ships suddenly show up in system on dscan lol

kringled_1

To the extent I've asked (not often) it's for people who aren't in voice or are permanently self muted, and it's just to get their pronouns right.

Neriak

I can share my experience.
I'm a girl IRL and play as male characters (it's just a personal preference). I never hide my real gender or mislead anyone in game, but usually people do not ask. If I have long, consistent conversations with someone, who refers to me as "mate" or "dude", only then I correct them. Not because I feel offended or anything, but because I don't want to mislead them.

Speaking of flirting and misleading, one of the first angry whispers I received in Cyro was "s***k my d*" to which I replied: "sure" (sarcasm, obviously I wasn't going to do it IRL or virtually)
Then the person proceeded to send me few more funny whispers (about "choking on it", etc) I didn't reply I was too busy and didn't read the chat.
The next day that person contacted me again, this time politely, and explained his previous behavior (alcohol and substances). We had a nice convo this time, sharing our experience with addictions and such, few days later we exchanged contacts and he literally fell off from his chair when he heard my voice. He didn't expect me to be a girl and I completely forgot to mention it.
He doesn't play actively anymore, but after that incident, he went above and beyond to help me in game.

Generally speaking, people do treat me differently once they find out my real gender, however, I don't remember if anyone asked me something like "So, (name), you're a guy IRL, correct?!" it literally never happened That's why I have to bring it up myself when I consistently hang out with someone. I don't like when they begin to treat me differently, but I don't want to mislead people.

And to answer your question:

marshill88 wrote: »

I know that most of the female characters I encounter online are males, is it considered an offensive question to ask them once they are on your friends list?

Personally, I can tell if anyone in game is a IRL female or not, idk the magic behind this but as a female myself I just know somehow
But, lets imagine, I play female character and a person in game asks me "so you are REALLY a girl?" not gonna lie, that would make me laugh and I would reply with something like "Yeah, sure, but I'm not a Dark elf, hope it's not a problem". This question is not offensive, it's just slightly creepy in my opinion.
BUT if you're forming a friendship with someone in game and just want to clarify the person's gender.. I'd rather ask something like "you can call me (real name) and what's your name if you don't mind me asking?"
Or let's say the character has a feminine name and you constantly address this person by this name, in my experience, guys usually corrected me by saying "hey, I'm (name)".

Nemeliom

I have 2 female and 4 male characters. I was never asked my gender before, but why would it be offensive? Is a question as any other.
If the person is offended by a question, then the problem is on that person and not on you.

Unless of course you are aggressive in the way you ask, but just be normal and you will get a normal answer (if you don't, block and ignore).

Tsar_Gekkou

I've honestly never met anyone who cared in this game, but i'm on Xbox so e-dating might be more prevalent in the pc community.