Is it wrong to inquire about RLF gender to your in-game friends?

Danikat

Here's the link for anyone who is interested: https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

(For future reference @marshill88 external links are allowed as long as the site being linked to doesn't violate the forum rules. You can also mention other games by name, since I know that's another one some people get worried about.)

It's from 2017 and based on their own survey, and this article says they have 270,000 respondants, but the same survey is quoted with higher numbers of respondents in later articles so I'm not sure if they clear out old data periodically or if they're including answers from whenever they first did it as if they're still relevant today.

The relevant part here is probably the chart of percentage of female gamers by genre, which gives 36% for high fantasy MMOs, which is similar to what polls on this forum have shown.

(Although I'm surprised that it says 18% of action-adventure players are female, I swear most the people on the Zelda forum I visit are women, but maybe Zelda is an anomaly in that case.)

Watchdog

[snip]

Anyway, I only know the gender of some of my guildies, many only because I heard their real voice in a Discord voice channel. I treat everyone equally, the real gender only matters for some specific conversations, sometimes, and maybe for some well meant jokes coming from and into in all directions among us.

Paraphrasing a cartain scene cut out of Ben Hur, I couldn't care less about snails or oysters. Unless the distinction actually matters for the specific conversation we are having. If some guildies want to emphasise their genders in the conversation, they are free to point out their gender and I am going to respect it.

I believe that basic human decency and respect can get one really far.

[edited for inappropriate content]

Bodycounter

marshill88 wrote: »

The character is on my friends list, I figured statistically, the odds are high that this is a guy flirting with me. This whole social aspect of MMO's is a little weird to me, to be honest. Is asking an in game friend if they are gender-bending a creepy question to ask?

I would actually like to see a single statistic that shows a gender-specific population of Elder Scrolls Online. Since the game is relatively easy to get into and very story-driven why should women specifically avoid the game? The majority of younger women has or is playing games at this point in time. From my personal experience i would guess the female population in ESO to be around 35%.

How do you define "flirting" in this online game? Is it flirting between ingame characters or flirting between the people in front of the monitor? That's a huge difference because some people just like to roleplay with their character a little bit. What is with a-/bi-/pan-/homosexual people that are exploring their sexuality within a virtual environment? There are dozens of reasons for people being unsure/anxious of their sexuality.

I personally got to know a bisexual female gamer who was in a marriage with a man for around 10 years but felt sexually attracted to the type of woman that Lyris Titanborn represents.

DtOG

No but if you have to ask it’s weird.

Caupo

World of Tanks is an MMO. You dont see many girls playing it tho, definately not 36% as stated in "quantificfoundry" article

TwinLamps

I cant play any MMO as female char.
Any other game is fine, but in MMOs I simply cant identify with female chars.

bmnoble

Never really worried about it, if someone asks I tell them the truth, I am male, that said its only happened twice in the entire time I have been playing.

About the only time I have seen it come up is when someone assumes someones gender and the person corrects them in chat and some of the members(would not go so far as to call them friends acquaintances at most) of one of the trade guilds I am in are also in a guild that only recruits female players, how they enforce that I don't know.

Its just easy enough to refer to people as their in game name as far as I am concerned.

So long as people fulfill their roles when they are in a group, the rest is irrelevant.

AyaDark

In my company 3+ girls, that play really good.

And 2-3 more guys and me.

As example my girl , who play templar can solo HM of fang layer. And do it with some groups if they have problems on it and group really want to pass.

A lot of girl players are uncomfortable to play with people, who are rude to them and think that they are better than some one with no reason. The same for each category of people.

So some do not say, that they are a girl, if they see that company is stupid. Or do not play with them.

But if you do not care - than you get quite good company of skilled players

Some boys and girls with the same interests.

Danikat

Caupo wrote: »

World of Tanks is an MMO. You dont see many girls playing it tho, definately not 36% as stated in "quantificfoundry" article

It's not a high fantasy MMO though is it? So it would be in one of the other categories.

zaria

Caupo wrote: »

World of Tanks is an MMO. You dont see many girls playing it tho, definately not 36% as stated in "quantificfoundry" article

High fantasy MMO= games like ESO, guild wars or WOW

Mythreindeer

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Here's a bigger thought provoker for you:

How many of the male characters are being played by women?

How many of the people playing this game are transgender, or non-binary? Do they play characters that reflect their genetic sex, their physical sex (which may differ from their genetic sex, depending on gender conformation treatments), their gender identity? All of the above? Does it impact you in any way if they do or do not do any of those things?

How many of the people playing this game are intersex? What sex are the characters they play?!

As a student of psychology, I'm sure you're able to recognize that if this is indeed "an academic question" into which "scientific research has been put," this is not in any way the appropriate approach to gather information for "academic" purposes.

OTOH, perhaps people just enjoy playing opposite sex characters for the hell of it, to do something different, and there's no meaning to it at all other than you can make a cool-looking opposite-sex toon in an MMO game.

svendf

Doing a daily quest a player I didn´t know asked me if I was a female player (was on one of my healers), my healers are females. The question didn´t surprice me so I answered, with respect that I´m a male player. I informed that I play both genders.

My personal believe is, it´s ok to ask me and didn´t feel uncomfortable about it in any way. I see it as some kind of protection online for the individual asking - kan be a female looking for a online friend. I do respect a question like that.

Regarding flirting online or for some "roleplaying" . If they start flirting with one of my female chars I will inform that Im a male player and not into roleplay of that nature.

If Im on a male char and a female starts flirting Im can accept it, but will draw a line as my family do have a look sometimes and married

zaria

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Here's a bigger thought provoker for you:

How many of the male characters are being played by women?

How many of the people playing this game are transgender, or non-binary? Do they play characters that reflect their genetic sex, their physical sex (which may differ from their genetic sex, depending on gender conformation treatments), their gender identity? All of the above? Does it impact you in any way if they do or do not do any of those things?

How many of the people playing this game are intersex? What sex are the characters they play?!

As a student of psychology, I'm sure you're able to recognize that if this is indeed "an academic question" into which "scientific research has been put," this is not in any way the appropriate approach to gather information for "academic" purposes.

OTOH, perhaps people just enjoy playing opposite sex characters for the hell of it, to do something different, and there's no meaning to it at all other than you can make a cool-looking opposite-sex toon in an MMO game.

One common stated reason for playing female characters as an man is that if you have to look at some ass for thousands of hours its better if its an cute one

Other reasons can be that it feel more natural for the character. An huge Orc or Nord is more natural as an tank than an slim female Bosmer.

lillybit

Interesting topic. My experience on PS4 would put the number of male/females as pretty close here, certainly none of my guilds seem to have noticably more of one than the other. All of my guilds except one are run by women too (not by design, I haven't gone out of my way to find them, it's just who happens to run them), as was my raid group when I still did trials.

I try not to make assumptions about others in game but it's nice to be able to give a "voice" to onscreen lines of text. It doesn't matter, it's just nice to know. I'm also happy to correct the random players calling me Bro!

Coatmagic

This is truly the worst possible forum you could ask such questions;
that being said, since my (late) intro into MMORPGs back in 2004,
don't ask/don't tell has always been the go to...
if things get too 'creepy', just go do something else (in game, I mean).

PS: 85% males you say? Funny, most of the people I meet are ladies in their 50s >^^<

DragonRacer

Honestly, gender is probably something you would find out fairly easily either because you entered a group or guild voice chat with them or they correct you on a pronoun. I've actually learned there are waaaaaaay more fellow ladies in my guild and a few other guilds than I thought because I always default to assuming every gamer is a dude until proven otherwise. So, I'll refer to "him" or "he" and then find out, nope, that's a lady. That doesn't always happen - actually had a guy refer to me as "bro" in a guild Discord yesterday and I didn't care to correct him on it, so meh - but usually it seems ladies will speak up and correct the pronoun.

It definitely feels like far more than I was expecting, which is nice to see. Growing up, I always felt like the only girl playing video games, which my guy friends thought was awesome but it was also kinda... isolating? I dunno. Been gaming since my Dad showed me how to play Atari when I was around 5 or 6 years old and I'm turning 36 this week, so I've been at it for quite some time now.

I also run a large donation-based trading guild on our server, and know of several other lady GMs of large guilds. We're really not as uncommon as people might presume, it seems.

I have characters of both genders based on what "felt" right for their backstory or the kind of character I wanted to make.

If I'm newly friends with someone and enjoy running content with them, I don't think it'd be weird to be asked gender in a laidback kinda way. When it gets weird is when your gender gets "discovered" by someone new in, say, guild chat and now you're instantly getting a friend request from them when you weren't even interacting with them to begin with. Just... don't. Don't bombard someone with a friend request because "OMG THEY'RE A FEMALE?!?!?!" It's weird. And creepy. Basically every time.

Danikat

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Here's a bigger thought provoker for you:

How many of the male characters are being played by women?

How many of the people playing this game are transgender, or non-binary? Do they play characters that reflect their genetic sex, their physical sex (which may differ from their genetic sex, depending on gender conformation treatments), their gender identity? All of the above? Does it impact you in any way if they do or do not do any of those things?

How many of the people playing this game are intersex? What sex are the characters they play?!

As a student of psychology, I'm sure you're able to recognize that if this is indeed "an academic question" into which "scientific research has been put," this is not in any way the appropriate approach to gather information for "academic" purposes.

OTOH, perhaps people just enjoy playing opposite sex characters for the hell of it, to do something different, and there's no meaning to it at all other than you can make a cool-looking opposite-sex toon in an MMO game.

That's certainly my thinking. I always find myself wondering why the characters sex or gender seems to be the only choice which raises this question.

No one ever asks why some of us choose to play a non-human character when we're human in real life (or why we'd choose to play a human when this is a chance to do something different), or why I'd choose to use magic or a two-handed axe when I can't do either of those things in real life. All of the other choices made during character creation seem to be treated as just part of the game and players are free to choose whatever they want without anyone questioning their motives, but for some reason the character's gender is treated differently and people are always surprised by other people who do or don't play their own gender and want to work out why they make that choice.

For me it's all about what fits the character. I'll take whatever my starting point is (I want to make a sorcerer, or a breton, or a crafter or a character who will use a healing staff and double daggers, or whatever) and then imagine what sort of person that would be, based on the game lore. I'll make up their back story alongside deciding things like which Alliance they'll join and what class or race they'll be and decide their gender at the same time. It's nothing to do with me and all about how I see the character.

WiseSky

I meet more females then males in eso.

Which is surprise from other games I play.

I never needed to ask the gender of the person but if I did I would ask in a respectful way.

KalyanLazair

Personally, I don't care if you want to ask me my gender, though I don't understand why that's something relevant. I'm not bothered if people call me bro or dude. Actually, I'm quiet used to it as some of my guild mates didn't know I was a woman until they heard me in voice chat.

As for the character thing, I have about half-half male-female characters. I might have one more female as the number is odd, but yeah. I play most often with my female khajiiti, my male breton sorc, and I stream RP a female altmer sorc. There is a WW male bosmer build I've been working on as of late, so I've been playing him pretty often. I don't know, I don't really have a preference over male or female characters. I play the ones I have most fun with in the end. I have a female tank I don't play at all because I despise tanking.

zvavi

What gender is skeleton :thinks:

WiseSky

zvavi wrote: »

What gender is skeleton :thinks:

Easy :get the addon that measures bone density and hip structure of characters.

zvavi

WiseSky wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

What gender is skeleton :thinks:

Easy :get the addon that measures bone density and hip structure of characters.

To be frank I dislike playing my female characters because of few reasons
1. The female run is sexist and disgusting.
2. Lack of combat dresses. I want them to look cute and practical.
3. I am a skeleton.

On the topic though, who cares what gender is the other person, just assume whatever and don't be weird about it. Since inquiring about it might feel uncomfortable to some people, don't do it, you will find out with time anyway. And if not? Who cares.

Elsonso

Simple rule of thumb for inquiring about personal information: Don't.
That said, one should not be deceptive in a situation where it matters, so if that situation arises, don't wait to be asked.

marshill88 wrote: »

Hello Danikat. The statistics are on QuanticFoundry, you can search for the article "Beyond 50/50: Breaking Down The Percentage of Female Gamers by Genre"

When you are talking about a specific game, this is not much more accurate than assuming 50-50.

WiseSky wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

What gender is skeleton :thinks:

Easy :get the addon that measures bone density and hip structure of characters.

This violates my privacy and that add-on should be banned.

KalyanLazair

Caupo wrote: »

World of Tanks is an MMO. You dont see many girls playing it tho, definately not 36% as stated in "quantificfoundry" article

That game's PvP is punishing. Yeah, I'm so bad at it.

ectoplasmicninja

I'm female IRL and play a pretty even mix of male and female characters of different races. It's a fantasy universe where I can create varied and interesting individuals, so I don't feel the need to stick to reflections of myself. My username is gender neutral (same as here) and even when I'm on my female characters people always call me "bro" by default. I don't bother correcting them. I'm not afraid of being bullied or hit on or whatever, my gender just isn't relevant to 99.99% of my in-game interactions.

Similarly, I've never felt the need to ask anyone their IRL gender, because it never mattered to whatever we were doing or talking about. If we talk enough, it eventually comes out either in conversation or by a selfie in Discord or something. I don't think it's necessarily rude or out of place to do it, I guess it depends on why you're asking.

Sevalaricgirl

I highly doubt that 85% of the ESO players are male.

See below, I wasn't able to edit this...

Sevalaricgirl

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I highly doubt that 85% of the ESO players are male.

So I just read the supposed report on how many females actually game and here is what it says...36% percent of females play high fantasy MMOs so even if it was correct, 36% percent of players in ESO are females.

https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

And the report is not up to date. It was 4 years ago.

SidraWillowsky

Please don't. I've had men (on my friends list) get really, really creepy after they learn that I'm a woman. If asked directly, I'll answer honestly, but it's generally something I'd rather not bring up unless I'm playing with a bunch of other women (two of my guilds are female officer heavy, which is awesome).

SidraWillowsky

Danikat wrote: »

Here's the link for anyone who is interested: https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

(For future reference @marshill88 external links are allowed as long as the site being linked to doesn't violate the forum rules. You can also mention other games by name, since I know that's another one some people get worried about.)

It's from 2017 and based on their own survey, and this article says they have 270,000 respondants, but the same survey is quoted with higher numbers of respondents in later articles so I'm not sure if they clear out old data periodically or if they're including answers from whenever they first did it as if they're still relevant today.

The relevant part here is probably the chart of percentage of female gamers by genre, which gives 36% for high fantasy MMOs, which is similar to what polls on this forum have shown.

(Although I'm surprised that it says 18% of action-adventure players are female, I swear most the people on the Zelda forum I visit are women, but maybe Zelda is an anomaly in that case.)

Oof, they use a self-selected sample, so it's impossible to generalize to the population of gamers as a whole. Basically, you can only talk about these results in the context of the more "hardcore" gamers." They're open about these limitations, but just bear in mind that you can't talk about *all* gamers based on these results.

Sandman929

I've been in many an awkward pug chat where some male asks, or is obviously excited by the fact that they're playing with a female gamer when one speaks up. I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be for the female gamers to have to deal with that crap.
Every time I hear "You're a girl?" asked in voice chat, I just expect the next question to be "Will you be my girlfriend?!"