Daily random normal gives way too many transmute crystals

KovalskyNestor

It was discussed before that veteran rewards are underwhelming and thats the reason why people only do rnd. I agree that it's unbalanced, but I still like the idea of 10 transmute crystals for rnd. They should simply increase the number of crystals from other sources.
Another thing to mention is that majority of people have limited time to play eso, and the only thing they do is rnd.

I don't see anything bad with anyone having too much crystals. Giving everyone easy acces to change traits or reconstruct certain armor is harmless. Sure, it would be very easy to adapt to meta with particular set and trait, but again, I don't see how would this affect gameplay.

etchedpixels

Do you know anyone that runs 18 characters a day through a random normal? I probably wouldn't set foot in a dungeon for a year if I tried that (I also don't have 18 characters).

Never done 18 - a few of my toons are not designed for dungeon running.

10 is not hard if you are running it as a group. You each cycle through 10 toons, every run you have a lowish level toon to avoid DLC and tedious content. No queue time, and as you've got 3 CP lots characters it's usually a speedrun each time. I could do 18 in a day given the right group and probably in 4 hours. As I tank I regularly do 5 or 6 with low level tanks via the queue (no delay for tanks) and it's usually fast or it's all low levels which is actually a lot of fun. Several of them are specifically built for fast dungeon farming runs so are hybrids able to tank normal bosses and also slice and dice the trash.

The downside however is you then need a lot more crystals to make yet more sets of battalion defender 8)

Having farmed them this way I still agree with the original statement - there is an imbalance. Vet or DLC should be more than normal, there needs to be some up and down tweaking of undaunted versus random amounts, and probably a way to solo normals to get the anti-social speedrunners out of the queue.

hcbigdogdoghc

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

It was discussed before that veteran rewards are underwhelming and thats the reason why people only do rnd. I agree that it's unbalanced, but I still like the idea of 10 transmute crystals for rnd. They should simply increase the number of crystals from other sources.
Another thing to mention is that majority of people have limited time to play eso, and the only thing they do is rnd.

I don't see anything bad with anyone having too much crystals. Giving everyone easy acces to change traits or reconstruct certain armor is harmless. Sure, it would be very easy to adapt to meta with particular set and trait, but again, I don't see how would this affect gameplay.

Having too much crystal will kill off content, in a few years no one will be running vet dungeon and trials anymore because they can just reconstruct everything.

DaveMoeDee

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

It was discussed before that veteran rewards are underwhelming and thats the reason why people only do rnd. I agree that it's unbalanced, but I still like the idea of 10 transmute crystals for rnd. They should simply increase the number of crystals from other sources.
Another thing to mention is that majority of people have limited time to play eso, and the only thing they do is rnd.

I don't see anything bad with anyone having too much crystals. Giving everyone easy acces to change traits or reconstruct certain armor is harmless. Sure, it would be very easy to adapt to meta with particular set and trait, but again, I don't see how would this affect gameplay.

Having too much crystal will kill off content, in a few years no one will be running vet dungeon and trials anymore because they can just reconstruct everything.

Sounds good to me. No pressure to repeat the same content over and over to grind gear? That is good news. When you get all the achievements for a dungeon or trial, why return?

hcbigdogdoghc

Sounds like you all just hate the game or something because playing content seems like torture to you.

Just pugged vFL on my tanks 5 times today and couldn't have enough, really fun dungeon to tank. Especially when I cleared them with a low cp group that don't faceroll everything (dungeons with a high dps group is boring af, every boss is a 20 sec parse boss, bore me to tears), the feeling of overcoming challenges and finally cleared the dungeon is super rewarding, hate seeing these content die.

Don't know why people think a system that encourages not playing the game is a good one.

VaranisArano

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Sounds like you all just hate the game or something because playing content seems like torture to you.

Just pugged vFL on my tanks 5 times today and couldn't have enough, really fun dungeon to tank. Especially when I cleared them with a low cp group that don't faceroll everything (dungeons with a high dps group is boring af, every boss is a 20 sec parse boss, bore me to tears), the feeling of overcoming challenges and finally cleared the dungeon is super rewarding, hate seeing these content die.

Don't know why people think a system that encourages not playing the game is a good one.

And I dunno why, if you can handle PUGing vFL five times with low CP groupmates, it's apparently such a hurdle to put together a group to play vMGF or Kyne's Aegis.

I mean, nothing screams "vet dungeons are dying!!!" like bragging "I cleared vFL five times today with PUGs."

Er, maybe not your best example?

hcbigdogdoghc

VaranisArano wrote: »

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Sounds like you all just hate the game or something because playing content seems like torture to you.

Just pugged vFL on my tanks 5 times today and couldn't have enough, really fun dungeon to tank. Especially when I cleared them with a low cp group that don't faceroll everything (dungeons with a high dps group is boring af, every boss is a 20 sec parse boss, bore me to tears), the feeling of overcoming challenges and finally cleared the dungeon is super rewarding, hate seeing these content die.

Don't know why people think a system that encourages not playing the game is a good one.

And I dunno why, if you can handle PUGing vFL five times with low CP groupmates, it's apparently such a hurdle to put together a group to play vMGF or Kyne's Aegis.

I mean, nothing screams "vet dungeons are dying!!!" like bragging "I cleared vFL five times today with PUGs."

Er, maybe not your best example?

You seriously don't think the sticker book and easy crystals will kill the game long term? When you queue for a non pledge vet dungeon on a tank and it's taking 30 minutes it's proof that they are dying.

Viewsfrom6ix

It's just you man. I feel like I've been able to get groups for dungeons and trials FASTER now.

Agenericname

@hcbigdogdoghc

The issue with a tank waiting in queue is more likely the DF just being its normal buggy self. Drop queue and re-enter. Should be fine.

The issue isn't as much that RND pays too many as much as it is there's no disparity between normal and vet. The amounts are arbitrary. There's no rhyme or reason, at least not an easily discernable pattern, as to why we get 50 from one event, 1 from another, some RNG, and 5 for dungeons regardless of the difficulty. So it makes it difficult to say that it pays too many instead of vet doesn't enough.

XP is also a larger incentive now than it was prior to the patch for +810 characters. There's no incentive to run random vet over normal. The fake tank thing has been around since before the crystals were 10. I have no doubt that they're a factor, but certainly not the cause.

I would suggest finding a guild. There are a few that specialize in 4 person content. Even if they did increase the random vet reward, most would still run with their guilds and you may not see a large influx into vet dungeons. The groups that can easily queue and run a random vet regardless of where the queue takes them tend to avoid PUGs.

Hurbster

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

LannStone wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

I can solo some dungeons when they come up as pledges, but as you get a whole single crystal it's not worth it. It takes up too much of my time, which is limited.

Agreed, why not 10 crystals for a solo pledge, same as the random group dungeon?

[snip]

Don't know why people don't get it, my problem is not that I hate getting crystals, my problem is that being able to get crystals so easily through RND (and by extention the reconstruct system) remove all incentive to do vet content/pvp/trials. I can't even get a nKA group right now to get just one clear despite looking in crag for weeks.

Vet DLC dungeons are like my favorite activity in the game, a couple months back I even queue for vSCP multiple times a day for fun, sad to see the number of people playing them plummet.

Why should people who don't do pvp, trials or vet stuff miss out on crystals? I thought the sticker book was meant to be a QoL improvement? I'm never going to do vet dungeons or pvp so why shouldn't crafting dailies have a chance of dropping a few crystals? Or daily quests the same? It's certainly not going to affect stats on people queuing for dungeons, unless of course the majority of people are just doing it for the crystals and not because they want to run a dungeon...

Kurat

I'm in several high population guilds and everyone only do random normals. Both, the sticker book and the new cp system have ruined group play for harder content. Why do vet dlc dungeons if you get the same xp and 10 transmutes from rnd normals.
There should be higher rewards for more effort.

Lerozain

The overwhelming majority wanted a sizeable increase in transmute crystal drop rate, and that's exactly what we got.

People who are gearing up and experimenting with builds on multiple characters are still feeling the pinch however.

If they nerfed crystal drops again, the same people saying "too many" would be saying "too few". It's a good amount for more casual players, and enough so that grinders can get more for their efforts.

VaranisArano

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Sounds like you all just hate the game or something because playing content seems like torture to you.

Just pugged vFL on my tanks 5 times today and couldn't have enough, really fun dungeon to tank. Especially when I cleared them with a low cp group that don't faceroll everything (dungeons with a high dps group is boring af, every boss is a 20 sec parse boss, bore me to tears), the feeling of overcoming challenges and finally cleared the dungeon is super rewarding, hate seeing these content die.

Don't know why people think a system that encourages not playing the game is a good one.

And I dunno why, if you can handle PUGing vFL five times with low CP groupmates, it's apparently such a hurdle to put together a group to play vMGF or Kyne's Aegis.

I mean, nothing screams "vet dungeons are dying!!!" like bragging "I cleared vFL five times today with PUGs."

Er, maybe not your best example?

You seriously don't think the sticker book and easy crystals will kill the game long term? When you queue for a non pledge vet dungeon on a tank and it's taking 30 minutes it's proof that they are dying.

Nope, I don't think so.

You underestimate that there will always be new players doing the vet content, wanting their monster helms and HM keys or just actually wanting a challenge. Sure, this new crystal reward system replaced the old grind with a new grind, but you know what? ZOS does that. Used to be that there were no transmutation crystals and you had to grind for the right item in the right trait. Transmutation cut the grind enormously. Did that kill the game? LOL, no. Still not dead yet!

The Devs aren't killing Vet content by boosting the random normal dungeon. At worst, this is a blip as suddenly the most efficient way to farm exp for CP 2.0 is to run a Random Normal dungeon. What're you gonna do, beg the Devs to take away the premium exp bonus from that, too?

Finally, how do you think new players get comfortable enough to try Vet dungeons? That's right. They run normals. ZOS is clearly making a concerted effort to get new players into normal group dungeons with rewards and especially the new Companion system in the clear hopes that they'll branch out into harder content once they've gotten their feet wet for the Vet rewards.


If you really want players in Vet dungeons, ask ZOS to improve the Vet rewards according to their difficulty. Beyond that, you should take action to fix your own issues - make a premade group for a fast queue on non-pledge dungeons or join a guild.

zvavi

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

You seriously don't think the sticker book and easy crystals will kill the game long term? When you queue for a non pledge vet dungeon on a tank and it's taking 30 minutes it's proof that they are dying.

Yes. I do not think sticker book and easy crystals will kill the game.

I think you do not understand. Averagely, to "complete" sticker book for a dungeon with your own loot, it will take you around 300 runs. Add to it gearing more than 1 character, meta swings, bank space, mat costs, and it is definitely not going to kill the game. Especially when the majority of the game's crowd doesn't even run dungeons for the specific gear, there are more of those that will want "completion".

tc91101

There is no way someone is running 18 random normals on 18 toons in 30 minutes. Loading screens alone just logging in and porting into the dungeon for 18 toons is probably close to 30 minutes and you haven't even killed one mob. It's still a quick way to get crystals if you want to just run randoms though. Probably get get that 180 in 3ish hours maybe if you could force Fungal runs which are like 10min or so even if it's just 1 or 2 people i.e. form a group of 4 with 2 lowbies.

RogueShark

renne wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

For example, no one reconstructs perfected gold jewels or even purple jewels if they have a lot of toons to outfit. Same with gear in the perfect trait. I'm always in runs where people who can reconstruct a certain piece still ask for that piece in Divines or whatever trait they want bc it saves transmutes.

Haha what? People definitely reconstruct perfected gold jewels because if you've already got it why wouldn't you reconstruct, instead of vaguely hoping it's going to drop? Also if you're reconstructing gold - or purple -jewellery it's not costing you the mats to improve them to that level.

Idk if anyone has corrected you on this yet but it 100% does take gold mats to reconstruct a gold piece of gear. So yeah, there's reason to farm gold jewelry rather than wasting hundreds of thousands to reconstruct...

kringled_1

RogueShark wrote: »

renne wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

For example, no one reconstructs perfected gold jewels or even purple jewels if they have a lot of toons to outfit. Same with gear in the perfect trait. I'm always in runs where people who can reconstruct a certain piece still ask for that piece in Divines or whatever trait they want bc it saves transmutes.

Haha what? People definitely reconstruct perfected gold jewels because if you've already got it why wouldn't you reconstruct, instead of vaguely hoping it's going to drop? Also if you're reconstructing gold - or purple -jewellery it's not costing you the mats to improve them to that level.

Idk if anyone has corrected you on this yet but it 100% does take gold mats to reconstruct a gold piece of gear. So yeah, there's reason to farm gold jewelry rather than wasting hundreds of thousands to reconstruct...

It depends on the set. For Sunspire and Kyne's Aegis, perfected jewelry never drops in a quality below gold, so they will reconstruct directly at gold, no chromium plating required.

majulook

The issue is not to many crystals as rewards, the issue is a limit on how many crystals you can store.

You can kind of get around this by using a transmute station the reconstruction of items. When you deconstruct them you get the crystals back not the mats used just the crystals. But... If you reconstruct Mythic items they use no other mats.

I have reconstructed all the Mythic jewelry for each of my characters. So that is 5 jewelry items at 25 crystal each for 8 characters is 1000 crystals total. Each Character has 5 items holding a total of 125 crystals stored on each character.

If you used one of the 60 item storage chest, you could hold 60 reconstructed Mythic items each holding 25 Crystals for a total of 1,500 Crystals stored.

Now doing this does not really alleviate the storage issue, it just moves it to another area.

RogueShark

kringled_1 wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

renne wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

For example, no one reconstructs perfected gold jewels or even purple jewels if they have a lot of toons to outfit. Same with gear in the perfect trait. I'm always in runs where people who can reconstruct a certain piece still ask for that piece in Divines or whatever trait they want bc it saves transmutes.

Haha what? People definitely reconstruct perfected gold jewels because if you've already got it why wouldn't you reconstruct, instead of vaguely hoping it's going to drop? Also if you're reconstructing gold - or purple -jewellery it's not costing you the mats to improve them to that level.

Idk if anyone has corrected you on this yet but it 100% does take gold mats to reconstruct a gold piece of gear. So yeah, there's reason to farm gold jewelry rather than wasting hundreds of thousands to reconstruct...

It depends on the set. For Sunspire and Kyne's Aegis, perfected jewelry never drops in a quality below gold, so they will reconstruct directly at gold, no chromium plating required.

That I didn't know! That's kind of nice. Can you decon them for plating returns or is it just returned transmutes since you didn't spend any?

I think all I really looked at jewelry wise was something like AY. There's still a want to farm those rather than reconstruct, but ty for the info on perfected. That's really good to know.

Kidgangster101

Roztlin45 wrote: »

This is proof that some people will complain about anything! Really? Too many crystals!?!

What op is trying to say is the ratio is off. Everything should be balanced. If you have to wait 30 days to get 50 transmutes from pvp and you can get 60 in 3 days in pve....... See the balance there?

Before it used to get people to que into pvp but now no need to do pvp at all. And now if pvp players want faster transmutes it in fact pulls them into pve content yet again.

It just needs to be balanced so both players can play how they want and get similar marks. So for example you can get 600 transmutes per char if you do pledges over 30 days (vet and normal) so that means pvp players at the end of a 30 day cycle should get 600 not get 50..............

AlnilamE

LannStone wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

I can solo some dungeons when they come up as pledges, but as you get a whole single crystal it's not worth it. It takes up too much of my time, which is limited.

Agreed, why not 10 crystals for a solo pledge, same as the random group dungeon?

Because the reason for the random queue is to help fill groups of people who are trying to do specific dungeons.

That's why the random rewards are what they are.

Should pledges give more, but not as much as helping other players.

kringled_1

RogueShark wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

renne wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

For example, no one reconstructs perfected gold jewels or even purple jewels if they have a lot of toons to outfit. Same with gear in the perfect trait. I'm always in runs where people who can reconstruct a certain piece still ask for that piece in Divines or whatever trait they want bc it saves transmutes.

Haha what? People definitely reconstruct perfected gold jewels because if you've already got it why wouldn't you reconstruct, instead of vaguely hoping it's going to drop? Also if you're reconstructing gold - or purple -jewellery it's not costing you the mats to improve them to that level.

Idk if anyone has corrected you on this yet but it 100% does take gold mats to reconstruct a gold piece of gear. So yeah, there's reason to farm gold jewelry rather than wasting hundreds of thousands to reconstruct...

It depends on the set. For Sunspire and Kyne's Aegis, perfected jewelry never drops in a quality below gold, so they will reconstruct directly at gold, no chromium plating required.

That I didn't know! That's kind of nice. Can you decon them for plating returns or is it just returned transmutes since you didn't spend any?

I think all I really looked at jewelry wise was something like AY. There's still a want to farm those rather than reconstruct, but ty for the info on perfected. That's really good to know.

I think it's just returned transmutes.

zaria

Nestor wrote: »

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

for a random queue with no dlc dungeons so they can get 180 crystals in 30 minutes speed running FG1.

You can't hop dungeons anymore. Haven't been able to for months

Because the exploit got well known and morons starting running it with pugs and kicking the ones wanting the quest from BC1 and did not want to port to FG1. Result was obvious but they did not care as they got 100K xp today.

Agenericname wrote: »

@hcbigdogdoghc

The issue with a tank waiting in queue is more likely the DF just being its normal buggy self. Drop queue and re-enter. Should be fine.

The issue isn't as much that RND pays too many as much as it is there's no disparity between normal and vet. The amounts are arbitrary. There's no rhyme or reason, at least not an easily discernable pattern, as to why we get 50 from one event, 1 from another, some RNG, and 5 for dungeons regardless of the difficulty. So it makes it difficult to say that it pays too many instead of vet doesn't enough.

XP is also a larger incentive now than it was prior to the patch for +810 characters. There's no incentive to run random vet over normal. The fake tank thing has been around since before the crystals were 10. I have no doubt that they're a factor, but certainly not the cause.

I would suggest finding a guild. There are a few that specialize in 4 person content. Even if they did increase the random vet reward, most would still run with their guilds and you may not see a large influx into vet dungeons. The groups that can easily queue and run a random vet regardless of where the queue takes them tend to avoid PUGs.

Agree, now pugging vets I had much better experience puging pledge dungeons as they are the one people are running.

Now I'm in a group who do lots of dungeons, random normal, normal dlc farm, pledges, up to dlc HM runs.

Most there enjoy getting an dlc as they random normal as its fresher, many need quests and it drop gear you are unlikely to have collected, this make up for the longer run times.

zaria

kringled_1 wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

renne wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

For example, no one reconstructs perfected gold jewels or even purple jewels if they have a lot of toons to outfit. Same with gear in the perfect trait. I'm always in runs where people who can reconstruct a certain piece still ask for that piece in Divines or whatever trait they want bc it saves transmutes.

Haha what? People definitely reconstruct perfected gold jewels because if you've already got it why wouldn't you reconstruct, instead of vaguely hoping it's going to drop? Also if you're reconstructing gold - or purple -jewellery it's not costing you the mats to improve them to that level.

Idk if anyone has corrected you on this yet but it 100% does take gold mats to reconstruct a gold piece of gear. So yeah, there's reason to farm gold jewelry rather than wasting hundreds of thousands to reconstruct...

It depends on the set. For Sunspire and Kyne's Aegis, perfected jewelry never drops in a quality below gold, so they will reconstruct directly at gold, no chromium plating required.

That I didn't know! That's kind of nice. Can you decon them for plating returns or is it just returned transmutes since you didn't spend any?

I think all I really looked at jewelry wise was something like AY. There's still a want to farm those rather than reconstruct, but ty for the info on perfected. That's really good to know.

I think it's just returned transmutes.

Deconstructing something reconstructed return 25 transmute and plating like an normal deconstruct.
so one grain of jewelry plating.
You want to farm jewelry from vet as its 80-100 k making it purple.

Ceejengine

There should also be a way for solo players to get their crystals as well. Some folks don't like group content at all and therefore don't enjoy dungeons or PvP, which means they have no chance to get transmuted.

Maybe something like add 3-5 crystals for the first 2-3 dailies you do each day.

Or 3-5 crystals per daily per zone. It'd incentivize folks to spend more time out in the world too.

Or do a daily zone where mobs, bosses and quests have an x chance to drop transmutes.

spartaxoxo

Ceejengine wrote: »

There should also be a way for solo players to get their crystals as well. Some folks don't like group content at all and therefore don't enjoy dungeons or PvP, which means they have no chance to get transmuted.

Maybe something like add 3-5 crystals for the first 2-3 dailies you do each day.

Or 3-5 crystals per daily per zone. It'd incentivize folks to spend more time out in the world too.

Or do a daily zone where mobs, bosses and quests have an x chance to drop transmutes.

Solo normal base game pledges for a key and a crystal.

lihentian

do you really think new player don't deserve to gear up for vet or trial?? if you taken away 10 crystal per day, most of the new player without crafting couldn't live...

Sarannah

Just let veteran dungeons give 15 transmutation crystals.

What do people need so many transmutation crystals for anyways?

Athan1

That's fine. It's helpful for reconstructing gear.

spartaxoxo

Sarannah wrote: »

Just let veteran dungeons give 15 transmutation crystals.

What do people need so many transmutation crystals for anyways?

It costs 500 crystals to transmute a gear set. And 250 crystals if you want to reconstruct one. That's 25-50 runs to get one armor set sorted out.

Add in that many people have multiple alts and builds for different activities and experiments, and you end up with a lot of crystals a person can need.