Age gap

LightYagami

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Despite what some will claim p2w doesn't really exist in ESO. Anyone who claims otherwise likely hasn't had the misfortune of playing a legitimately p2w game, and I would be much less tolerant towards ESO if it were p2w.

If you play hardcore PvP often, ESO is kinda P2W.

Malacath, Crimson, Alessian, vas-whatever staff, etc. Most of the currently meta (proc allowed) PvP gears are from new DLCs / Chapters...

He two Paid classes: Wardens and Necros are still the best in PvP (stamina).

ZOS nerfed crit and sell new contents will malacath. They also nerfed old monster sets to sell more mythic items.

You can still perform well without using those sets or building those clasy, but you can perform excellent with them.

LightYagami

LightYagami wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Despite what some will claim p2w doesn't really exist in ESO. Anyone who claims otherwise likely hasn't had the misfortune of playing a legitimately p2w game, and I would be much less tolerant towards ESO if it were p2w.

If you play hardcore PvP often, ESO is kinda P2W.

Malacath, Crimson, Alessian, vas-whatever staff, etc. Most of the currently meta (proc allowed) PvP gears are from new DLCs / Chapters...

He two Paid classes: Wardens and Necros are still the best in PvP (stamina).

ZOS nerfed crit and sell new contents will malacath. They also nerfed old monster sets to sell more mythic items.

You can still perform well without using those sets or building those clasy, but you can perform excellent with them.

*The two: typo

Elsonso

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

I AM a game designer. But I do not work for ZOS. I have no intention of finding anyone who works at ZOS bc my empirical observation and knowledge are sufficient for me to deduct my conclusion.

I have, however, played almost every renowned RPG title in the past three decades, from indie games to AAA titles, from JRPG to the Western RPG. And I can say with certainty that modern MMORPG's RPG element is a joke.

Back when I was actively working on multiplayer RPG games, the RPG elements were non-existent compared to what we have today.

TwinLamps

You spelled Wage wrong, OP

WiseSky

Yesterday I was farming for the elusive Aeterial Dust.
I did it for maybe 1 hour.
Then it hit me!
In black desert online I could only farm 10 nodes and then my energy would be at zero!
I would have to go to the cash shop and get a potion for energy to continue farming.

So elder scrolls does not have that I am so happy

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

Age gap? Of course.

- Its okay to be 20-24. Youd be surprised that people in the 40's were all there too. The ones that still game are still there. And will never leave because its better.
- The mmo genre itself you could stay is stuck in the dark ages of their prime (unlike players of course).
- If you can see things that your generation flags as distasteful, you have to make a choice. Just like for anything else, as convincing these huge software developers who have both invested millions and made millions to "wake up" to the common sense of youth... hasn't happened in all of existence.

Having said... i think the real difference is time. Us 40's also grew up playing wow and everything before and after it. The only upset from decades of gaming was the time spend on *one*ish game. So i simply don't play multiplayer. And thankfully eso functions perfectly as an evolving single player game with enough amusements here and there and the best npc's in the industry. Jumping, standing on rocks, doing random things. Best AI possible.

EDIT: Having said, i think zos are certainly catering for the early 20's crowd by the gambling boxes. We old timers have memories of years, and years of gaming before the internet, were you paid something and got something in return and that was that. From having experienced objectively better days, and other responsibilities that come with age.. id imagine that older people will be less likely to play real money cosmetics casino in an mmo.. in contrast the demographic prime in their first real job with no responsibilities.. and have had the presence of trash like facebook grooming them from their first ipad.. target market for gambling.

ccfeeling

I cant believe there are so many elderly playing ESO

SteveCampsOut

Belegnole wrote: »

I decided at a young age that if growing up was becoming old and cranky like my dad and his cronies, I just wasn't going to do it. At 57 I still get comments about it and it makes me happy.... lol

I just turned 58 last month and I revel in being the grumpy old fart! Just ask some of my characters like Grumpasaurus Rex!

Elsonso

ccfeeling wrote: »

I cant believe there are so many elderly playing ESO

Well, it is Elder Scrolls Online.

SilverBride

Elsonso wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I cant believe there are so many elderly playing ESO

Well, it is Elder Scrolls Online.

Best... answer... EVER!

peacenote

I'd be careful assuming things about age. Age doesn't equal maturity or perspective or behavior. At most, age ranges make it more likely to be exposed to certain things but even then folks won't have the same opinions about those experiences.

Sylvermynx

Elsonso wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I cant believe there are so many elderly playing ESO

Well, it is Elder Scrolls Online.

Absolutely8 the BEST response to internet snark I have EVER seen/read.

I'm laughing so hard husband is giving me "that look"....

Runefang

As a middle aged player with young kids (34 - so middle aged in the MMORPG sense) I find I have a lot less time than the average end-game player. So getting things like trial trifectas I find a challenge. On the other hand money isn't an issue as ESO is the only game I play and am happy to put some discretionary funds into it.

Necrelios

Age is a mindset. There's teenagers out there running around in 40-50 year old bodies.

Firstmep

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

I don't think age has all that much to do with what one tolerates. If one was to generalize; older people have had more time to conclude what they are willing to deal with. While younger people just except the situation. Of course since it's a generalization it's probably wrong anyway. Just like the statistics from super data are probably wrong.

I have always gotten a laugh out of the thought that there weren't any "Old" gamers in whatever game I was playing. Gaming as it is today got here because of the old timers. You don't really think that they stopped playing do you? No, they're just continuing to have fun. Without telling everyone that they are here.

I decided at a young age that if growing up was becoming old and cranky like my dad and his cronies, I just wasn't going to do it. At 57 I still get comments about it and it makes me happy.... lol

Where generalization exists, exceptions always co-exist. Nonetheless, exceptions do not invalidate the generalization, just like the bell curve suggests. Based on my experience, it's certainly possible for physiologically young people to be "bitter and cranky" (yep, that would be me). I have zero tolerance towards lootboxes, immoral monetizing practices, unfinished products, etc. And sometimes I wonder why people would tolerate those nonsense. One of the answers I came up with is in the original post. Based on the replies in this thread, it appears that older gamers who play the game to chill do have a higher tolerance for (intentional) design flaws.

Of course, when you go on to mention "(intentional) design flaws" as well as "immoral monetizing practices" you are turning the entire discussion into an entirely subjective one, and one that is not necessarily anything to do with age, merely one person's understanding of morality versus someone else's, both equally validly held. As we get older, do we tend to become more tolerant of the other person's point of view? Quite possibly, yes.

Unfortunately, the (intentional) design flaw part is not subjective at all. As someone who has studied game design in-depth, ESO has some typical "create a problem, and sell the solution" design in the game. There're too many examples of them, I'll just list some of them.

Imperial racial passive v.s the nerf of other racial passives;
Riding lessons not account-wise;
Skyshard not account-wise;
Mages' Guild & psijic guild skills not account-wise. (All my dps are stamina bc of how tedious these two skill lines are);
etc.etc.

After the fiasco in 2019 involving EA's "surprise mechanics ", I'm sure most sensible gamers would agree lootboxes are immoral and predatory. The only ones defending them are probably saudi princes and some millionaires.

When I express my subjective opinions, I always note that it's my own opinion. However, the things I've mentioned has been addressed over and over again, it's really nothing new to someone who's been closely monitoring the industry for a long time.

Skyshards, mages guild etc existed long long long before they were purchasable thru the Crown Store.
These were put in the game when it was still sub based.
Also its not like you are forced to buy any of it, at best it saves you a couple of hours of time that you would spend playing the game.
Imperial was largely unpopular for a very long time, with only being an okay race at best.
If you think just now they decided to nerf some other races purely to sell more imperial edition packs... I mean you better make a thicker tinfoil hat cuz those damn government microwaves are messing with you.

DreamyLu

I'm an old player and I very much like classic MMORPG. I play since about 15 years. In my main MMORPG (not ESO), I'm a guild leader so I talk with lot of players all ages.

Regarding monetization: personally, I don't care because it has zero impact on my game progress and way to play. From talking with others, I believe that how players think about monetization is more a matter of way to play than a matter of age.

Regarding the rest: I can witness that most of the younger players have a different way to play; they want that everything goes fast. They don't get much fun at levelling up. Progress over time is a bother to them. Their first question is in most cases: what is highest level equipment? How can I skip this and that to go to end game? And such... Their objective is to go straight to end game and obtain best stuff in no time, if possible without "grinding".

Don't misunderstand me. I don't say it's wrong. It's just different, and I believe that ESO can't match with that. Even me, oldie, when I arrived in ESO a few months ago, I got a shock and had it hard to adapt. I still play it because I was searching for a game to chill solo aside of my main. For that, ESO is perfect. But it couldn't be my main game. There are by far too many things getting me angry and/or frustrated each time I play, starting with the long long - long - time between the moment I click on play and finally get my character in game...

blxdes

You can search a post I made recently on this. For any "oldies" wanting to join a guild dedicated to mature players - look us up - The Elders Tribe (PC/NA).

Vermintide

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, there's a large portion of players above 40 years-old in the ESO community. According to superdata, the average age for a mmorpg gamer in 2016 is 33. As for ESO, it is safe to assume that the Elder Scrolls IP potentially contributed to the older population's interest in the game.

As someone who's in the 18-24 age group, I can definitely feel the age gap sometimes, no matter in the game or on forum. Sometimes I wonder how old those who "debate" about irl politics in the zone chats are. Moreover, a LOT of players seem to come from the EQ era, meaning that they've probably played this genre for decades. They seem more tolerable towards the game company's monetization practices. I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming. At the moment, ESO is possibly the only game that they regularly play now, so their tolerance is higher.

Again, as someone who has hundreds of games on steam, consoles, and portable consoles, gaming has evolved SO MUCH beyond the MMORPG genre. For anyone who plays games outside of the MMORPG genre, it's clear as crystal how some of the systems in ESO are outdated. "Other MMORPG did the same thing" is not a valid excuse anymore. Unless MMORPG is the only genre that player ever played, for decades even.

Open for discussion: how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

Listen kid, MMO is a dead dinosaur genre. Let us just have this one, okay? It takes us back to better times You can go play your Fortnite survival sandbox open world crafting pirate sailor games or whatever it is they have instead these days.

If anything I would have thought it's the younger players who are more tolerant of monetisation, however. They have grown up in the days of day 1 DLC, season passes and other such excessive developer greed- For us older gamers, we still remember when a monthly sub was all you needed. Hell when I was a teenager, I played way too many of those F2P Korean grind-fests, because I thought even paying a sub was too much.

You also have absolutely no idea just how... For lack of a better word... Casual this game is compared to older MMOs. Why would it be the older, veteran players paying for progress, when they're the ones who remember how the grind to max level took months in older games? You can reach level cap in a weekend with this game.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that for many players, especially in the older games, the RPG part of MMORPG is really not the important part. I don't know if you're quite old enough to remember what the internet was like in the early 00's, but back then there was no Facebook or Reddit, you had chat clients like MSN Messenger or whatever, but you didn't have huge Discord severs or anything. The MMO part was the important thing, it was like a vision of the future where everyone was in virtual reality. It was seriously the coolest thing just to exist in an online world full of other people with their own avatars; the game mechanics were a total afterthought. Everyone knows the gameplay sucked, they just didn't care, because it wasn't important. Whereas MMOs now? There is no social aspect. Zone chat is just LFG and WTS. Nothing like it used to be in older games.

There's no point generalising entire groups of people though. It is rarely, if ever, accurate. The thing is, age slips by a lot faster than you realise. Somebody who is 40 today was 23 when World of Warcraft launched, in the prime of their youth, and believe it or not? They probably haven't actually changed all that much since they were a 23 year old WoW nerd.

Also, just my personal opinion here but: The gameplay in Elder Scrolls Online is leagues ahead of other MMOs, and in my opinion even better than the mainline Elder Scrolls titles. The combat system alone, with roll dodging and everything, is vastly superior to Skyrim. The RPG elements (character build, gear set effects, etc) are far more impactful than the single player TES games.

menathradiel

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

It doesn't affect me at all. I can't recall a time when I have ever asked anyone's age in the game. I don't think the personal details of those I'm playing with matters all that much; we play, we have fun together, we help each other - why does age, or anything else for that matter, have to be a factor in that?

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming.

I'd politely disagree with your assumption. I venture to guess that opinions over the monetisation in the game are highly dependant on whether or not you can afford what's on offer. Having worked for 20+ years, I'm in a job that has steady hours and good pay, and thus have more free time and more disposable income than I had when I was young.

Firstmep

menathradiel wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

It doesn't affect me at all. I can't recall a time when I have ever asked anyone's age in the game. I don't think the personal details of those I'm playing with matters all that much; we play, we have fun together, we help each other - why does age, or anything else for that matter, have to be a factor in that?

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming.

I'd politely disagree with your assumption. I venture to guess that opinions over the monetisation in the game are highly dependant on whether or not you can afford what's on offer. Having worked for 20+ years, I'm in a job that has steady hours and good pay, and thus have more free time and more disposable income than I had when I was young.

I think it's a bit more than that, I have a fairly well playing job, but I still don't spend more money on this game than the monthly sub, I just don't feel the need.
Almost nothing on the crown store has any relevance to me or I can get those things by playing the game, which is how I prefer my rewards.
Or I csn buy whatever I need with gold to crown conversion, like race changes etc.

Also the person you quoted: I actually have about as much time to spend on playing video games as I had whn I was younger, I just became better at managing my free time.
The only thing that takes away from my gaming time these days is when I take a break from sitting in front of my pc, for various reasons.
But then again I also play path of exile where I spend upwards of 8-10 hours playing in 1 sitting with the occasional bathroom breaks(at league launches).

menathradiel

Firstmep wrote: »

menathradiel wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

It doesn't affect me at all. I can't recall a time when I have ever asked anyone's age in the game. I don't think the personal details of those I'm playing with matters all that much; we play, we have fun together, we help each other - why does age, or anything else for that matter, have to be a factor in that?

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming.

I'd politely disagree with your assumption. I venture to guess that opinions over the monetisation in the game are highly dependant on whether or not you can afford what's on offer. Having worked for 20+ years, I'm in a job that has steady hours and good pay, and thus have more free time and more disposable income than I had when I was young.

I think it's a bit more than that, I have a fairly well playing job, but I still don't spend more money on this game than the monthly sub, I just don't feel the need.
Almost nothing on the crown store has any relevance to me or I can get those things by playing the game, which is how I prefer my rewards.
Or I csn buy whatever I need with gold to crown conversion, like race changes etc.

I know I was generalising from personal experience, but it can be said that in general, those of us who are older tend to have better financial situations - though that is not always true by any means.

I tend to spend my crowns on dresses and housing, because I like dresses and housing

In general, though, I'd agree that I don't really have "more" free time that I did when I was younger, it's just that I spend that time differently now. Going out was a big part of my life in my twenties, not so much now I'm in my forties.

FlopsyPrince

I am not sure how many older people this applies to, but I have found it useless to argue politics since no one is really open to listening.

Thus I don't waste my time on that.

Longstriker

I started playing the MMO genre when I was 12 after watching my father grind for days on end in WoW. The effect time has on progression really interested me. I am now 20, so I only have a few years of MMO experience compared to some other people on this thread.

For me, I dont notice the age difference at all. I don't ask the people I play with how old they might be. Also i dont think that people who are older than me have more time for gaming than I do, as a have people on my friends list that are older than me put in more time on this game compared to myself. My father regularly puts in 50+ hours a week on another MMO and still works a full time job.

Currently I play multiple different games including R6S and LoL, the monetization across all 3 including ESO contains cosmetics in their version of the cash shops. Everything that you need to have in the game is obtainable by playing the game. Sure ESO does have some outdated systems such as the mount training, and trait researching but I don't think that game is completely unevolved from other modern games.


Overall I haven't been affected by the age gap whatsoever.

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO

At 47 I’m usually the oldest when I join a guild in most games, but recently, since lockdown I’ve come across players in my decade more and more, I do feel eso attracts the older audience due to the franchise being around for such a long time.

My experience of zone chat can often make me feel old though as you can feel the age divide, in my early gaming days we didn’t seem as toxic or attention seeking as some do, however in my other MMO I met a friend early twenties and he’s a great laugh, I call him kid he calls me gramps but we’ve been playing together for 2 yrs now, irl that would look weird and probably not work but we’ve created so many real lol moments across different games, we both play eso most nights with a bit of COD thrown in to change it up.

Anyhow like a stereotypical old man I’m rambling but ty for reading lol

Fischblut

Open for discussion: how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

It doesn't affect me at all, and I prefer to not know anyone's age in the game

I don't like to talk about any "real life" things in game, including how old or young everyone is; I never tell about myself and I don't ask about other people.

Jem_Kindheart

I also at 30-ish am surprised that younger people are alarmed at the cash shop concept, since all games and apps of their time have been that way. I'm just old enough to remember that when you bought a game for $40 or $50, that was it. The developer got their money and you got future updates if any, without paying more.

Obviously that was a model that wouldn't work for something like ESO, as they do have to keep paying teams and server costs.

Asking $40 for a pixel horse or $180 for a pixel house is pretty cringey though...but hey whatever lol.

robwolf666

I'm in my late 40's, and have been a gamer since my teens. I've always liked/prefered solo games, and frankly the only reason I was interested in ESO is that it's Elder Scrolls.
My kid recently started playing ESO too, she's 14, and has just been quietly running around Auridon for the past couple of weeks on her own. Oddly however, she can't access the DLC areas I own...

Elsonso

Longstriker wrote: »

I started playing the MMO genre when I was 12 after watching my father grind for days onend in WoW.

We are supposed to learn from our parents so we can avoid their mistakes.

Jem_Kindheart wrote: »

I also at 30-ish am surprised that younger people are alarmed at the cash shop concept, since all games and apps of their time have been that way. I'm just old enough to remember that when you bought a game for $40 or $50, that was it. The developer got their money and you got future updates if any, without paying more.

Obviously that was a model that wouldn't work for something like ESO, as they do have to keep paying teams and server costs.

Asking $40 for a pixel horse or $180 for a pixel house is pretty cringey though...but hey whatever lol.

It is not surprising at all that there are people in the 18-25 bracket that are alarmed by cash shops. Cash shops are a blockade in the path for someone who has to pick how to allocate relatively slim financial resources.

Mindcr0w

LightYagami wrote: »

If you play hardcore PvP often, ESO is kinda P2W.

Malacath, Crimson, Alessian, vas-whatever staff, etc. Most of the currently meta (proc allowed) PvP gears are from new DLCs / Chapters...

He two Paid classes: Wardens and Necros are still the best in PvP (stamina).

ZOS nerfed crit and sell new contents will malacath. They also nerfed old monster sets to sell more mythic items.

You can still perform well without using those sets or building those clasy, but you can perform excellent with them.

What you are describing is pay to play, not pay to win.

This attitude that some people have of "if it wasn't in the base game its p2w" is ridiculous. Especially 7 years into an MMO's lifecycle. As if the game could survive if it didn't put worthwhile loot in its expansions. As if expecting all future content to be balanced around how the game existed 7 years ago wouldn't be a death sentence.

newtinmpls

Guizan wrote: »

the pandemic and me working from home save me lots of time not having to commute 3 hours a day to get to and from work.

Sigh... I wish

Got a new job and travel time is about an hour one way; so it eats up a lot of time for me.

Elsonso wrote: »

In an RPG game, nothing that the character does should be account wide. Nothing. Not riding lessons, not skyshards, not skill lines, not achievements, not titles, and not champion points. These are things for non-RPG games.

Yup, I agree 100%; if you play a "team" then all the members get the stuff. I seem to recall years ago Gopher (youtube streamer that does ton of "how to" videos - a lot of them r/t Skyrim if I rcall) demo-ing a team game, but I have no idea what it was - and that's not what I would go for anyway; I like playing/being a character, not one side of a chess board.

Vermintide wrote: »

Another important thing to keep in mind is that for many players, especially in the older games, the RPG part of MMORPG is really not the important part.

Gotta WAY disagree with you on that - or maybe just point out that there is yet another cluster of "many players" who trace back not to online games, but to pen-and-ink roleplaying, and to that faction (of which I am a member) the RPG part of MMORPG is the reason we are here at all.

This is the crew who wanted "Skyrim with friends"; this is the crew who like RPing and for some of them the endgame is housing and social.

As far as style and preference, I don't think it breaks down by age as much as by personal taste.