Hidden 30- second cooldown on swapping CP's

CyberOnEso

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

DaveMoeDee

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

Cooldown on changing the loadout is also absurd out of combat, particularly when I am trying to decide what I want to use. Drag the wrong thing and you are waiting.

CyberOnEso

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

Cooldown on changing the loadout is also absurd out of combat, particularly when I am trying to decide what I want to use. Drag the wrong thing and you are waiting.

I completely agree. Though you can't change CP's in combat anyways, so the cooldown is pretty absurd.

Hotdog_23

Really dreading this next update when it hits console because of the green CP tree. Which is a shame considering their is a lot of positive's that could be said for it.

Dishearten for ZOS only response is basically deal with it because this is how we want it done

Stay strong and safe

HowellQagan

I really don't get why the crafting tree has the highest number of slottables.

I thought the point was to make CP2.0 into more of a horizontal progression instead of making CP a power creep factor.
But most of the slottables on the green tree are QoL features. Anything that doesn't affect combat should be a passive tbh...
Potion, food, fall damage, heat etc related -> make it slottable.
Gathering, crafting, looting etc related -> make it passive.

VaranisArano

HowellQagan wrote: »

I really don't get why the crafting tree has the highest number of slottables.

I thought the point was to make CP2.0 into more of a horizontal progression instead of making CP a power creep factor.
But most of the slottables on the green tree are QoL features. Anything that doesn't affect combat should be a passive tbh...
Potion, food, fall damage, heat etc related -> make it slottable.
Gathering, crafting, looting etc related -> make it passive.

I suspect that ZOS thinks of quality of life stuff like Infamous or Shadowstrike or Reel Technique as Horizontal Progression. After all, those are new effects and while they make our character better at certain aspects of gameplay, it doesn't make us better at combat.

Whereas for players like me who are used to being able to do everything on a single character, it feels an awful lot like a vertical climb to be able to do everything again. I'm making choices between combat effectiveness and QOL for gameplay I enjoy...something really I haven't done much of since I hit max CP.


I suspect the choice to put so many effects as slottables is for performance. With CP 1.0, they seem to have had a lot of passives checking on a lot of actions, like Bastion checking every time to see if there was a damage shield in effect. By making us slot things like Treasure Hunter, they can reduce the calculations from opening chests by a factor of every player who doesn't have it slotted. Plentiful Harvest apparently does a dice roll to see if the item is doubled, then rolls again on the loot table to get the doubled loot - again, it must lower calculations to not do that for any player who didn't slot it.

Since the cooldown is also performance related, I think its a reasonable guess that limiting players to only 4 desirable effects at a time is probably also performance related.

Hurbster

Which doesn't say much for the state of the servers or the coding behind the scenes.

Varana

Just checking - can someone confirm that the Rationer star really only works at the moment when you eat/drink? I.e. it doesn't prolong the timer while it's slotted?

To me, it seems like that, and tbh, that takes the cake - a star that is, by ZOS' design, meant to be slotted for literally a second every one or two hours (plusminus) and then immediately thrown out again.
That means that, by ZOS' design, you will run into the cooldown except if you're really taking your time rummaging through your pack, looking for food. I don't know how others play the game, but it will certainly not take me 30 seconds to find and ingest the food. I mean, on some characters I have it on the quickbar...

So what ZOS' idea of using the CP system is: When we refresh food, we are supposed to go into the CP menu, slot the star, confirm, leave the menu, ingest the food, go into the CP menu, unslot Rationer, wait for ~15 seconds contemplating all the choices that led to this nonsense, confirm, leave the CP menu.
This is utterly ridiculous.

Iarao

VaranisArano wrote: »

Let's just say I have a lot of questions about how we got to this point.

failure to invest in better servers?

Iarao

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst I obviously disagree with this change. And would much prefer that the Green CP stars are passive I have updated Jack of all Trades to obey this new cooldown and to queue up stars to be slotted when the cooldown ends.

If you are interested you can download it from ESOUI or Minion

This also removes the annoying messages 'One of more champion points could not be slotted' and simply tells you in chat that you are on cooldown and how long the cooldown will last. It won't annoy you with error sounds or top-right notifications.

This version, therefore, is a significantly nerfed version of what Jack of all Trades could have been but still provides many benefits.
It will slot gathering stars when you harvest, fishing nodes when you go fishing, Meticulous Disassembly when you start crafting, and many more- including 'Rationer' which was added recently due to a suggestion. It will slot these in slots 3 and 4 of your Champion Bar and will not touch slot 1 or 2, I recommend you use those slots for stars like 'Steed's Blessing' or 'Gifted Rider'.

To the people who are on console, I can only apologize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. If I could make the addon work on consoles I would love to.

To ZOS I have no desire to try to get around whatever restrictions you impose. It's your game and you can do whatever you like with it. However, you have chosen to provide players with the API (Which I personally think is an amazing tool).
I only intend to use it for its intended purposes. I personally have seen no evidence that either version of Jack of all Trades would cause server performance issues.

It’s NOT their game! Technically they can do whatever they want with this game, but that’s only the case bc there’re no regulations with regard to softwares like this. I would be more than glad to see some governmental regulations ensuring the quality of service they must provide.

You, as a customer, should feel entitled to deserve high-quality service. If some feature is objectively obstructive to the enjoyability of the product, you OUGHT to point that out and confront them. It’s your RESPONSIBILITY, for both yourself and other customers.

well most customers are f2p? not sure you qualify as a customer if you dont pay?

Iarao

Fennwitty wrote: »

I get the cooldown multiple times by hand also. Usually when setting up a character the first time (see: Every single character ), primarily confirming after slotting a star to ensure it 'sticks' and then looking for the other active ones available.

If it was easier to find stars by them having actual labels without an addon required, I wouldn't feel the need to 'lock in' choices as frequently.

i dont think i have ever gotten cd when i did a manual star swap. now, when i had joat active in my addons, before i removed it, i would get the some starts couldnt be changed out or something like that message.

Iarao

Jaraal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Devs, was this what you intended to happen?

I don't think they realized that players would be reslotting CP at the frequency they are forced to do now just to get what used to be passive harvesting / treasure buffs. I do believe it was planned for people to "waste" CP having to get past the crafting inspiration chokepoint, because surely they are aware that inspiration is redundant for most players, who are max crafters already.

didnt realize?!? O.o

Iarao

DYSEQTA wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

This is, simply, all very terrible design, and a disgrace for whoever thought of this nonsense.

That's it pretty much in a nut shell. It almost seems to be so absolutely obvious that it is bad that I am to the point of believing that it must actually be deliberate. If that is the case then ZOS is literally trying to make player experience painful and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

Normally when I see behavior like this from the developer of an MMO I immediately assume there must be some drug-pushing-style cash shop business skullduggery planned to go with it. So far I can't identify anything obvious of that nature though. So what is the motivation?

scrolls to bypass the cooldown?

virtus753

Iarao wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst I obviously disagree with this change. And would much prefer that the Green CP stars are passive I have updated Jack of all Trades to obey this new cooldown and to queue up stars to be slotted when the cooldown ends.

If you are interested you can download it from ESOUI or Minion

This also removes the annoying messages 'One of more champion points could not be slotted' and simply tells you in chat that you are on cooldown and how long the cooldown will last. It won't annoy you with error sounds or top-right notifications.

This version, therefore, is a significantly nerfed version of what Jack of all Trades could have been but still provides many benefits.
It will slot gathering stars when you harvest, fishing nodes when you go fishing, Meticulous Disassembly when you start crafting, and many more- including 'Rationer' which was added recently due to a suggestion. It will slot these in slots 3 and 4 of your Champion Bar and will not touch slot 1 or 2, I recommend you use those slots for stars like 'Steed's Blessing' or 'Gifted Rider'.

To the people who are on console, I can only apologize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. If I could make the addon work on consoles I would love to.

To ZOS I have no desire to try to get around whatever restrictions you impose. It's your game and you can do whatever you like with it. However, you have chosen to provide players with the API (Which I personally think is an amazing tool).
I only intend to use it for its intended purposes. I personally have seen no evidence that either version of Jack of all Trades would cause server performance issues.

It’s NOT their game! Technically they can do whatever they want with this game, but that’s only the case bc there’re no regulations with regard to softwares like this. I would be more than glad to see some governmental regulations ensuring the quality of service they must provide.

You, as a customer, should feel entitled to deserve high-quality service. If some feature is objectively obstructive to the enjoyability of the product, you OUGHT to point that out and confront them. It’s your RESPONSIBILITY, for both yourself and other customers.

well most customers are f2p? not sure you qualify as a customer if you dont pay?

How are most players of a B2P game F2P?

Iarao

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

what do you mean by champion bar loadout? is it the presets in the upper right?

Iarao

Iarao wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

what do you mean by champion bar loadout? is it the presets in the upper right?

they had a cooldown for when i changed up where i spent my points? how about when i changed up my star bar?

Jaraal

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Devs, was this what you intended to happen?

I don't think they realized that players would be reslotting CP at the frequency they are forced to do now just to get what used to be passive harvesting / treasure buffs. I do believe it was planned for people to "waste" CP having to get past the crafting inspiration chokepoint, because surely they are aware that inspiration is redundant for most players, who are max crafters already.

I was stuck on that point for a while, but then I decided to do Wanderer and Steadfast Enchantment. 10 points more, but at least those do *something*, however minimal their benefits.

I use an addon (Beam Me Up), or port to a friend, guildie, or house for free 100% of the time. And I end up selling excess stacks of filled soul gems to vendors. So TBH, I'd rather have the 10 CP back instead of going that route.

Jaraal

Iarao wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Devs, was this what you intended to happen?

I don't think they realized that players would be reslotting CP at the frequency they are forced to do now just to get what used to be passive harvesting / treasure buffs. I do believe it was planned for people to "waste" CP having to get past the crafting inspiration chokepoint, because surely they are aware that inspiration is redundant for most players, who are max crafters already.

didnt realize?!? O.o

Why else would they add a cooldown after it went live and someone mentioned an addon to streamline the process? If they had realized players would be swapping around this frequently they would have had the cooldown in place before the update dropped.

Varana

Iarao wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I am not saying it's fixed. It isn't!

However, with the update today ZOS has changed how the cooldown works. It now only puts you on cooldown when you change your champion bar loadout. Not when you re-distribute your points. It is a small improvement, but a welcome one.

Thank you very much for making this change, if you were wondering whether players would notice. I certainly did, it is appreciated.
Please consider making the green CP tree passive/ removing the cooldown entirely/ reducing the cooldown timer.

Thank you very much, this change whilst minor is an improvement!

what do you mean by champion bar loadout? is it the presets in the upper right?

Yep, exactly. "Champion bar loadout" means the four slots.

Previously, the cooldown also was in place for confirming your distribution of points. I've run into that quite regularly when assigning all the CP for the first time after the patch.

So I would distribute my CP to all the stars in a constellation. After that, I'd press Confirm, just to save my distribution - quicksaving in an RPG should be done regularly, after all . Then I slotted my four stars, but that didn't take me 30 seconds if I knew which ones I would slot, so I had to wait. Just as a practical example of where that would occur.

Iarao

Varana wrote: »

Just checking - can someone confirm that the Rationer star really only works at the moment when you eat/drink? I.e. it doesn't prolong the timer while it's slotted?

To me, it seems like that, and tbh, that takes the cake - a star that is, by ZOS' design, meant to be slotted for literally a second every one or two hours (plusminus) and then immediately thrown out again.
That means that, by ZOS' design, you will run into the cooldown except if you're really taking your time rummaging through your pack, looking for food. I don't know how others play the game, but it will certainly not take me 30 seconds to find and ingest the food. I mean, on some characters I have it on the quickbar...

So what ZOS' idea of using the CP system is: When we refresh food, we are supposed to go into the CP menu, slot the star, confirm, leave the menu, ingest the food, go into the CP menu, unslot Rationer, wait for ~15 seconds contemplating all the choices that led to this nonsense, confirm, leave the CP menu.
This is utterly ridiculous.

i will have to check again to be sure, but i thought the time was added to my food when it was slotted (slot first then eat) and stayed there. i will have to write down to be absolutely sure.

VaranisArano

Jaraal wrote: »

Iarao wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Devs, was this what you intended to happen?

I don't think they realized that players would be reslotting CP at the frequency they are forced to do now just to get what used to be passive harvesting / treasure buffs. I do believe it was planned for people to "waste" CP having to get past the crafting inspiration chokepoint, because surely they are aware that inspiration is redundant for most players, who are max crafters already.

didnt realize?!? O.o

Why else would they add a cooldown after it went live and someone mentioned an addon to streamline the process? If they had realized players would be swapping around this frequently they would have had the cooldown in place before the update dropped.

The cooldown was added with the launch, not afterward. They didn't add it to the PTS, nor did they announce it - according to Gina, because it was a change to the new system being launched, done for performance concerns.


You know how the saying "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" goes?

What you are suggesting is that the Devs had a plan...but had no idea that slottable stars like Professional Upkeep and Infamous only need to be equipped for the 1 to 10 seconds that players are talking to the merchant/fence. That the first time they realized that players were going to be swapping their slottables around to do the various activities the stars effect was on the PTS. (This, despite addons that let PC players instantly swap skills and gear - I mean, it was predictable that players were going to optimize this.) Did their in-house testers somehow not test the Craft tree slottables in the course of normal gameplay or something?

And then, please note, that the Devs' response was to implement a 30-second cooldown on all slottable swapping, whether manual or by the addon out of concern for the server/database...and not tell anyone about it in the patch notes.

The Devs - whether they mistakenly thought that players would enjoy micromanagement of slottables or their intent was to reduce the number of server calls by annoying players into not micromanaging their slottables - have shown that they are pretty married to their current design of micromanagement. It's a shame that, apparently, their server/database can't even handle manually swapping slottables in under 30 seconds. Maybe they should work on that for their next big rework.

PizzaCat82

They should have like 3 quickslot loadouts for the CP loadouts, so I don't have to remember exactly what to change for harvesting, dungeons, or PVP.

RedMuse

Iarao wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst I obviously disagree with this change. And would much prefer that the Green CP stars are passive I have updated Jack of all Trades to obey this new cooldown and to queue up stars to be slotted when the cooldown ends.

If you are interested you can download it from ESOUI or Minion

This also removes the annoying messages 'One of more champion points could not be slotted' and simply tells you in chat that you are on cooldown and how long the cooldown will last. It won't annoy you with error sounds or top-right notifications.

This version, therefore, is a significantly nerfed version of what Jack of all Trades could have been but still provides many benefits.
It will slot gathering stars when you harvest, fishing nodes when you go fishing, Meticulous Disassembly when you start crafting, and many more- including 'Rationer' which was added recently due to a suggestion. It will slot these in slots 3 and 4 of your Champion Bar and will not touch slot 1 or 2, I recommend you use those slots for stars like 'Steed's Blessing' or 'Gifted Rider'.

To the people who are on console, I can only apologize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. If I could make the addon work on consoles I would love to.

To ZOS I have no desire to try to get around whatever restrictions you impose. It's your game and you can do whatever you like with it. However, you have chosen to provide players with the API (Which I personally think is an amazing tool).
I only intend to use it for its intended purposes. I personally have seen no evidence that either version of Jack of all Trades would cause server performance issues.

It’s NOT their game! Technically they can do whatever they want with this game, but that’s only the case bc there’re no regulations with regard to softwares like this. I would be more than glad to see some governmental regulations ensuring the quality of service they must provide.

You, as a customer, should feel entitled to deserve high-quality service. If some feature is objectively obstructive to the enjoyability of the product, you OUGHT to point that out and confront them. It’s your RESPONSIBILITY, for both yourself and other customers.

well most customers are f2p? not sure you qualify as a customer if you dont pay?

This game is buy to play, we're all customers here.

Jaraal

VaranisArano wrote: »

It's a shame that, apparently, their server/database can't even handle manually swapping slottables in under 30 seconds. Maybe they should work on that for their next big rework.

Perhaps that's why the server crashed last night. So many players spamming a loadout switch once every 30 seconds must be hell on the infrastructure!

Perhaps they should convert more of the stuff that players use the most into passives..... like the previous system that worked for years did?

robertthebard

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst I obviously disagree with this change. And would much prefer that the Green CP stars are passive I have updated Jack of all Trades to obey this new cooldown and to queue up stars to be slotted when the cooldown ends.

If you are interested you can download it from ESOUI or Minion

This also removes the annoying messages 'One of more champion points could not be slotted' and simply tells you in chat that you are on cooldown and how long the cooldown will last. It won't annoy you with error sounds or top-right notifications.

This version, therefore, is a significantly nerfed version of what Jack of all Trades could have been but still provides many benefits.
It will slot gathering stars when you harvest, fishing nodes when you go fishing, Meticulous Disassembly when you start crafting, and many more- including 'Rationer' which was added recently due to a suggestion. It will slot these in slots 3 and 4 of your Champion Bar and will not touch slot 1 or 2, I recommend you use those slots for stars like 'Steed's Blessing' or 'Gifted Rider'.

To the people who are on console, I can only apologize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. If I could make the addon work on consoles I would love to.

To ZOS I have no desire to try to get around whatever restrictions you impose. It's your game and you can do whatever you like with it. However, you have chosen to provide players with the API (Which I personally think is an amazing tool).
I only intend to use it for its intended purposes. I personally have seen no evidence that either version of Jack of all Trades would cause server performance issues.

It’s NOT their game! Technically they can do whatever they want with this game, but that’s only the case bc there’re no regulations with regard to softwares like this. I would be more than glad to see some governmental regulations ensuring the quality of service they must provide.

You, as a customer, should feel entitled to deserve high-quality service. If some feature is objectively obstructive to the enjoyability of the product, you OUGHT to point that out and confront them. It’s your RESPONSIBILITY, for both yourself and other customers.

Actually, it is their game. As with all gaming software/software in general, you own a license to play it/use it. It's in the ToS of every game, and all external software that I have ever installed on a PC, going all the way back to using Cassette tapes as storage. The reason is, that it's an Intellectual Property, IP for short, and they do own all the rights to it.

As a customer/consumer, yes, we should be able to voice our opinions, good or bad, about the product.

Mix

Out fishing (these two stars are pretty good!) with my other two stars being plentiful harvest and master gatherer to snag nodes between or beside the fishing holes (damn loud nirnroot...) and look over..oooo treasure chest! *looks around* no other players, swap Treasure star, open chest, wait......reslot previous star....good thing no other players were around.

I feel like the cooldown wouldn't be so annoying except we have too many slottables for being out adventuring and I don't use any speed stars!

My normal adventure setup is Plentiful Harvest, Master Gather, Treasure and Homemaker. Even if one or two of these were made passive-not slotted it would be a great improvement!

Personally I don't use vendor repair ever, but everyone talking about that one make a good point, this one should definitely be passive-not slotted.

AlextheMuspel

robertthebard wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst I obviously disagree with this change. And would much prefer that the Green CP stars are passive I have updated Jack of all Trades to obey this new cooldown and to queue up stars to be slotted when the cooldown ends.

If you are interested you can download it from ESOUI or Minion

This also removes the annoying messages 'One of more champion points could not be slotted' and simply tells you in chat that you are on cooldown and how long the cooldown will last. It won't annoy you with error sounds or top-right notifications.

This version, therefore, is a significantly nerfed version of what Jack of all Trades could have been but still provides many benefits.
It will slot gathering stars when you harvest, fishing nodes when you go fishing, Meticulous Disassembly when you start crafting, and many more- including 'Rationer' which was added recently due to a suggestion. It will slot these in slots 3 and 4 of your Champion Bar and will not touch slot 1 or 2, I recommend you use those slots for stars like 'Steed's Blessing' or 'Gifted Rider'.

To the people who are on console, I can only apologize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. If I could make the addon work on consoles I would love to.

To ZOS I have no desire to try to get around whatever restrictions you impose. It's your game and you can do whatever you like with it. However, you have chosen to provide players with the API (Which I personally think is an amazing tool).
I only intend to use it for its intended purposes. I personally have seen no evidence that either version of Jack of all Trades would cause server performance issues.

It’s NOT their game! Technically they can do whatever they want with this game, but that’s only the case bc there’re no regulations with regard to softwares like this. I would be more than glad to see some governmental regulations ensuring the quality of service they must provide.

You, as a customer, should feel entitled to deserve high-quality service. If some feature is objectively obstructive to the enjoyability of the product, you OUGHT to point that out and confront them. It’s your RESPONSIBILITY, for both yourself and other customers.

Actually, it is their game. As with all gaming software/software in general, you own a license to play it/use it. It's in the ToS of every game, and all external software that I have ever installed on a PC, going all the way back to using Cassette tapes as storage. The reason is, that it's an Intellectual Property, IP for short, and they do own all the rights to it.

As a customer/consumer, yes, we should be able to voice our opinions, good or bad, about the product.

That’s why I said “technically”. BUT the biggest issue here is that the video game industry doesn’t have a regulated consumer protection law; some of the terms in TOS directly violate consumer rights, especially: The right to be informed: To be protected against fraudulent, deceitful, or grossly misleading information, advertising, labeling, or other practices, and to be given the facts he needs to make an informed choice.

Read carefully https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service. Under 6, “ ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services.” How is this not a violation of the consumer’s rights to be informed?

In reality, the corporation owns the IP of the game, but not the entirety of the game the moment the first player enters the game, for the players are a dynamic part of this service. The exclusivity of the TOS actually prevents the SQ (service quality) from improving.