Hidden 30- second cooldown on swapping CP's

Alurria

I think they should rethink the green tree a bit, having to stop and slot what were passives for crafting or riding seems like a not so "nice" time sink. There is so much to do in this game for me I don't need to have another time sink. Please don't make this a job for us. I come here to have fun.

Araneae6537

I am all for choices and trade-offs where it makes sense — in combat, story choices, etc. Limiting horizontal progression this way seems unnecessary. If at least the speed increases were passive, that would be great. For me, it’s especially aggravating because the tree is designed, I can’t only put points in what I want anyway but have to take some slottables that I may not want to use on that particular character.

Making Major Gallop a passive was a huge QoL improvement but making Master Gather and others slottable feels like a step in the opposite direction. 🤔

VaranisArano

Sergykid wrote: »

you don't need a passive for cheaper repair cost, you didn't have it before. Also you can use repair kits, they're cheaper than repairing your gear at a vendor.
you don't need passive for faster mount or no stamina cost. A upgraded horse won't even feel stamina draining and 10% mount speed won't change your life.
you don't need the passive for 30 minutes on food, food is cheap already and if you use expensive food then you don't need to use the expensive food during the time when you harvest nodes.

at most you may need to change the potion and food ones instead of harvesting nodes, and that when you join some serious content where you use your expensive food and potions, otherwise no need to change for insignificant bonuses

I'm not sure how "you don't need to use X slottable" really justifies the clunky design of those slottables.

"You don't need to ever use Professional Upkeep."
"But if I want to, I have to slot it before I repair my armor, then I have a 30 second cooldown before I unslot it. That's annoying.
"So what? You don't need to use it."

Look, it exists in the game. Presumably the Devs intended that players might, at some point, want to use these slottables. Therefore, I can't buy this argument that this clunky setup is acceptable because, in your opinion, I don't need to slot them.

Linaleah

lets assume we don't "need" a bunch of that stuff. lets go with JUST the passives we used to have.

I have to chose between making my horse go faster and being able to loot herbs faster while also getting a bonus to those hers. I have to chose chests passives, over stealth passives. etc etc. but they DID add all these new passives. except if your playstyle is "go out into the world and do activities as they come up" the fluidity is gone. I cannot farm herbs, fish AND loot chests while having bonuses to them active at the same time. i have to switch. I have to wait to switch. I pretty much have to give up on horse speed bonuses, something I used to just have active - because swapping back and forth between horse bonus and looting - takes too long and defeats the purpose of going a little faster in a first place. yes I can feel that 10% difference and I can certainly feel the no longer consuming stamina while riding out of combat. (another passive I pretty much cannot slot anymore if I want to keep other passives I used to have)

and don't even get me started on the fact that on my EU characters that have about 700cp.. I cannot even get all the passives I used to have and the slotting issue is not an issue by the virtue of me not even having enough points for passives that I used to have on that account YESTERDAY. like... I'm looting herbs slower now cause its either my old loot speed and no double the herbs bonus, or slower speed and at least the old 10% chance I used to get.. and yesterday I have both speed and bonus herbs.

lovely design. just lovely.

DYSEQTA

Craft tree in its current state is probably the finest example of echo chamber, head-in-the-sand, out-of-touch, stick-to-your-guns-no-matter-what, nonsense game design I have seen since maybe Godus?

zaria

Sambucca1973 wrote: »

Have to chime in with the rest. Many of the green tree skills should be passive. And the 30-second nerf? Not buying that rationale. And the idea that decisions should have consequence? Perfectly acceptable - in in-game dialogue where we make active choices. Perfectly unacceptable when we routinely (several times a day) need to remember to swap skills to get the benefit. Can you imagine making people do that in the middle of a trial/dungeon (yes, you can't - I know, still just imagine).

On my main character, I'm fighting, harvesting, deconning, and creating stuff usually several times a day (playing about 4 hours).

The decision re the crafting skill tree should be looked at again. As implemented, it's decreased the QOL aspect of the game. Just one example: why the heck should anyone have to put CP into faster farming animation? Really. Who/what purpose does that even serve?

I appreciate a lot of the things that Zenimax does. It's a great game, we get some great new stuff regularly, and the team seems responsive to community feedback.

So, Zenimax, I hope you'll reassess the green skill tree and at least making some of the skills passive. To at least improve QOL for players who don't just focus on one aspect of the game.

Perfectly unacceptable when we routinely (several times a minute) need to remember to swap skills to get the benefit.

Well we know how ZoS responds, nerf the hell out of it, this one is bussy doing surveys this week.

SammiSakura

Even if they just keep the slottable ones to the more lengthy use perks, like riding or more combat-ish ones. Things like harvesting or crafting shouldn't need to be slotted, its just such a small action that it's taking up space, make them passive.

I don't know how we will cope when they expand the green tree like the blue tree is (I'm sure I heard them talk about adding more things to it in the future)

Exarch

Sergykid wrote: »

you don't need...

Just to get the obvious response to this line of reasoning on the board, we don't need to play this game; a better basis for evaluating design decisions might be to ask what purpose they serve.

robertthebard

BlueRaven wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.

So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:

1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.

Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.

Crafting does not exist in a vacuum. It’s the fact that there is a slot passive that is only used at a crafting table. And that they have to switch them back when they are done.

Not going fishing? But suddenly the player comes across a fishing hole. Slot the fishing passive->go fishing->unslot passive. Treasure chest? Same thing. It’s endless.

Crafting table and fishing passives don’t need to be slotted. I have not reviewed all of them, but there are far too many of them.

It’s not like we can quickly change them out, or just swap them on the fly. It’s annoying to change them constantly since so many of them are rather mundane and of such limited use.

You might have a point, if we only had one slot. We don't. But let's put this in perspective, we're in a thread complaining about how 15 seconds is an eternity when it comes to swapping out for an activity that could take upwards of 5 minutes, crafting, or longer, dedicated gathering time/fishing. We're being led to believe that there's only one thing we can slot for at a time, which is bogus, since we can actually slot 4.

So, for your scenario, I'm likely to have my fishing, gathering and chest passives slotted for a day of fishing, leaving me one slot for whatever. That I may have to slot in something else, and then do whatever it is I swapped to, and that it starts a 15 second timer before I can swap back means very little, depending on exactly how long whatever I swapped to actually takes. There's even a chance that I can actually put four stars in and forget about them, depending on the toon, and what I'm actually doing.

Did you count how many slot passives there are in the green tree? There are two for mounts alone.

Some of them make sense, like finding an extra furniture plans or extra gold. But most of them are used so occasionally that it’s stupid. Do we need to have green tree load outs for different situations?

I am in a delve, don’t need the mount passives, right?

I am running a trial, maybe I should have the group wait, while I swap out the refining passive?

It’s needless micromanagement.

Why didn't you swap before you went in? That's really inconsiderate of you, isn't it?

Tyreal1974

AlexWaff wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Hate to say it but this smells like ZOS put the cool down in for the add-on. Which I cannot help but find funny. Play on console and I made numerous comments about this micromanagement and few PC players spoke up about it. Most did not seem to care about knowing that an add-on would fix ZOS poor implementation of the new CP 2.0.

Not trying to bait and pick a fight, I just hope that since the PC, players are upset about this and ZOS seems only to really care about their voice vs. console players. Pray something happens and this gets fixed for all parties involved and for the health of the game.

Stay strong and safe and enjoy the journey

People have been plenty vocal about this problem throughout all of the PTS, and it wasn't even acknowledged. Ignoring it is as good as saying "we want it this way, but we don't want to deal with the ugly mess of actually saying it, so we'll pretend we're dumb and hope you forget".

As for it actually getting addressed, they've all but given a hard no. The same hard no they gave about class change, and the same extremely hard, never ever no they gave about faction change.

While ZOS will stand firm making incredibly unpopular changes, they do sometime change their minds to accommodate the paying customers that pay their bills and make the shareholders happy. Just look at how the dev's moved gallop to the continuous attack passive. Hopefully making changes to the green tree for the gathering skill will be something they revisit because I do not find the need to keep swapping gathering CP skills to be fun.

BlueRaven

robertthebard wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.

So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:

1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.

Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.

Crafting does not exist in a vacuum. It’s the fact that there is a slot passive that is only used at a crafting table. And that they have to switch them back when they are done.

Not going fishing? But suddenly the player comes across a fishing hole. Slot the fishing passive->go fishing->unslot passive. Treasure chest? Same thing. It’s endless.

Crafting table and fishing passives don’t need to be slotted. I have not reviewed all of them, but there are far too many of them.

It’s not like we can quickly change them out, or just swap them on the fly. It’s annoying to change them constantly since so many of them are rather mundane and of such limited use.

You might have a point, if we only had one slot. We don't. But let's put this in perspective, we're in a thread complaining about how 15 seconds is an eternity when it comes to swapping out for an activity that could take upwards of 5 minutes, crafting, or longer, dedicated gathering time/fishing. We're being led to believe that there's only one thing we can slot for at a time, which is bogus, since we can actually slot 4.

So, for your scenario, I'm likely to have my fishing, gathering and chest passives slotted for a day of fishing, leaving me one slot for whatever. That I may have to slot in something else, and then do whatever it is I swapped to, and that it starts a 15 second timer before I can swap back means very little, depending on exactly how long whatever I swapped to actually takes. There's even a chance that I can actually put four stars in and forget about them, depending on the toon, and what I'm actually doing.

Did you count how many slot passives there are in the green tree? There are two for mounts alone.

Some of them make sense, like finding an extra furniture plans or extra gold. But most of them are used so occasionally that it’s stupid. Do we need to have green tree load outs for different situations?

I am in a delve, don’t need the mount passives, right?

I am running a trial, maybe I should have the group wait, while I swap out the refining passive?

It’s needless micromanagement.

Why didn't you swap before you went in? That's really inconsiderate of you, isn't it?

What?

The fact that I have to check and then maybe swap is also the point.

I have countless times swapped characters at the last moment. "Can you bring your tank?", "Your magic dps?", "Your nb?"
And who knows what I was working on with those characters when I was asked to go.

There is so many things to juggle for the 4 slots it's easy to forget what was slotted for each character at the time. There is too much mundane or "use every once in a while" passives in there, mixed with the ones that should be player choices.

The extra food buff time? That is great for a slot item. The potion one? Again, yes. That makes sense for a slot. Chance to get extra house plan? Sure!

Repair costs, why? Fishing? Seriously, fishing? Is fishing so OP it deserves a slot? No.

There are 19 selecteable slot items in the green tree. And I think somewhere between a third to half should just be straight non-slot passives. They tried to make all three trees feel the same but the green tree is a big failure. It has too many mundane choices. AND it's structure is too linear compared to the other trees.

It needs a top to bottom rework. If they want 19 slot passives in there, fine. But make them ones that actually matter like the food buff or the potion buff. And not the "use once every third day" variety.

•••

Here is some ideas. Instead of reduced repair costs being a slot, how about armor gets damaged more slowly as long as the passive is on?

Instead of refine as a slot passive, how about one that marks (lights up) heavy bags at particular ranges?

See? Make is so the slot passives are the type that a player would want on all the time, and not for the one time per day that it might be in use.
Swapping slot items on and off to do a repair is not fun gameplay.

Sarannah

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.

Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.

The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.

I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.

The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.

Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?

Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.

Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.

I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.

novemberhhh

Last year we got Hello Kitty Poop Scoop Adventure™
This year we get Node Micromanagement Simulator (30-second cooldown DLC included FREE!)

You all know you can burn money too right? You dont -need- to give it to these [snip]s

VaranisArano

Sarannah wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.

Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.

The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.

I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.

The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.

Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?

Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.

Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.

I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.

You know what advantage that addon gives? The advantage of not having to manually swap your slottables. It doesn't give you access to slottables you don't have unlocked, you know that, right?

And you are very wrong that the cooldown was driven by gameplay concerns like "we want choice to matter." No, I gave you numerous examples where it's clear that the slottables where designed to be used, then immediately removed. Moreover, Gina made it clear their reason for the cooldown was performance concerns, not gameplay.

You are also wrong that "we want choice to matter" ever applied to CP anyways. As long as I paid 3000 gold, I could always swap my CP layout around on the fly. I didn't have to go into town or find a shrine. That "choices matter" business applies to attributes, skills, and morphs - stuff that you can only change in town without a special scroll.


But since you do apparently what to argue that ZOS intended for our choices to matter, I'd like to hear you adress the specific slottables I mentioned: Professional Upkeep/Infamous, Meticulous Dissembly, Reel Technique/Angler's Instinct, Shadowstrike/Cutpurse's Art.

Because you seem to be suggesting instead of ZOS wanting there to be a cooldown for performance reasons, ZOS instead wants our choice of what we're doing in game to matter, such that we cannot transition from fishing to gathering to Justice system content on the fly without stopping in town to swap our slottables like it's an attribute shrine.

Mayne that gameplay appeals to you, but that's clunky as hell.

thorwyn

Maybe the change was implemented to block the effect of this add on, so console players would not have another reason to complain about the inequity and the existence of add ons for PC's.

Ah! No, it's because of server performance of course. My bad.

Nisekev

Sergykid wrote: »

you don't need

I don't need to pay ZO$ any more than I've already paid for this game, that's what I don't need with such attitude.

Hurbster

Fairly convinced that no one who approved this system used it as part of their in game day to day for any length of time.

novemberhhh

Hurbster wrote: »

Fairly convinced that no one who approved this system used it as part of their in game day to day for any length of time.

*completely

f047ys3v3n

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, the cooldown was added to alleviate some performance concerns on both the server and database. As this was something that changed a system new with PTS, we didn't call it out in the Live launch notes.

I'm going to guess you didn't want us to figure it out and that is why it wasn't in the notes. There is no way there wasn't a discussion about it and some gnashing of teeth. Not everyone at ZOS is dense enough to think that creating a tedious micromanaging mess is a good idea. There must have been a good number of people fighting on the other side of the decision. I doubt the issue slipped your mind when you wrote the notes.

Those add on's would have been a lifesaver with the tedious that gree tree has been made. Everybody warned you about it so I'm guessing there is a not so smart dude at the top of whatever decision chain it is who stuck his foot in the ground on this one. Let him know what happened to the dude who stuck his foot in the ground about AOE caps when everybody warned him about that. When the whole player base is on one side of a question and you are on the other, you are not on the right side. Nobody wants the tedious micromanagement game.

It's not even good in the blue tree. Just to try 2 trials and a vDLC dungeon today I had to fully respec my CP 3 times because some bosses face you and the heal for 7% of DD star is good for dungeons. Spending 9k a night respecing CP is going to get old real quick but it's not like your going to forgoe all those good passive points in order to make it easy to swap stars. And the difference between those slotted stars depending on the content is quite massive. You need the right ones. How about you make it so you don't get charged the CP for an active star until you slot it. So you can keep several ready to go and just swap them in without having to respec. It's not like those points do anything when the star isn't slotted anyway.

Lastly, that trials guild I was with wiped on the first boss of vSS several times like a bunch of Craiglorn pugs and eventually just gave up. Last week the same folks ran though the trial twice with no wipes. Hopefully, people just didn't have their builds figured out with the new system because if not, RIP that guild and maybe RIP players with <1k CP since most of them are <1k. I felt like I was OK and really didn't anticipate the problem based on my PTS testing, but I did do PTS testing so I knew my build. Hopefully that was it and not the 1.5kCP I have.

CirithValaria

SO if you want all that you had + maybe some new extra new ones...whats the point revamping system in the first place? Just new visuals? I think this is great improvement to make choices matter more and just like with your skill bar you have to make choices and compromises. Yeah I get it you can switch those more easily, but imo CP should be something between skill bar and skill respec in change difficulty. And it is

All and all I like it. Well done!

remosito

novemberhhh wrote: »

You all know you can burn money too right? You dont -need- to give it to these [snip]s

Indeed. And you can even keep playing and using their infrastructure...

Already cancelled my eso+. And new chapters? No more collectors edition pre-order. Maybe months later when they are 60% off...

I'll just keep burning my enlightenment. No eso+ will just make random normal that much more efficient for it.

In a couple of years I will have the 300M Xp they just poured down the drain back and enough Cp to actually enjoy the new system. Plus maybe by then they'll have added a slot or two per color.

renne

I gotta say, I sure hope all you PC folk who're up in arms about this right now will continue with the same level of outrage against the high levels of micromanagement in the green tree for console players as well instead of washing your hands of the issue once you get your addon back, should they go ahead and remove the cooldown.

Because this is the only way us console players are going to get the micromanagement alleviated, if PC players vocally complain as well.

zaria

SammiSakura wrote: »

Even if they just keep the slottable ones to the more lengthy use perks, like riding or more combat-ish ones. Things like harvesting or crafting shouldn't need to be slotted, its just such a small action that it's taking up space, make them passive.

I don't know how we will cope when they expand the green tree like the blue tree is (I'm sure I heard them talk about adding more things to it in the future)

This, now for the combat skills I like it, as you can choose to be more tanky if needed but this reduces you damage.
I assume dressing room and similar will also store the CP slots in the future like bar and gear.

TwinLamps

Imagine killing crafting tree addon
And being indifferent to addons that make u have perfect weaves in PvE

AlexWaff

renne wrote: »

I gotta say, I sure hope all you PC folk who're up in arms about this right now will continue with the same level of outrage against the high levels of micromanagement in the green tree for console players as well instead of washing your hands of the issue once you get your addon back, should they go ahead and remove the cooldown.

Because this is the only way us console players are going to get the micromanagement alleviated, if PC players vocally complain as well.

It'd be nice if console players weren't here preteneding there's some sepearation, when there really isn't. Everybody's been pushing against this since pts, and the addon changed nothing - it's just a workaround for something that HAS to be changed.

The fact ZoS went and specifically targeted the addon is a cowardly way to tell us to stop wasting our time, and that they do not intend to even consider changing it.

RedMuse

Sarannah wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.

Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.

The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.

I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.

The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.

Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?

Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.

Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.

I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.

Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.

renne

AlexWaff wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I gotta say, I sure hope all you PC folk who're up in arms about this right now will continue with the same level of outrage against the high levels of micromanagement in the green tree for console players as well instead of washing your hands of the issue once you get your addon back, should they go ahead and remove the cooldown.

Because this is the only way us console players are going to get the micromanagement alleviated, if PC players vocally complain as well.

It'd be nice if console players weren't here preteneding there's some sepearation, when there really isn't. Everybody's been pushing against this since pts, and the addon changed nothing - it's just a workaround for something that HAS to be changed.

The fact ZoS went and specifically targeted the addon is a cowardly way to tell us to stop wasting our time, and that they do not intend to even consider changing it.

Except there is. Yes, there were some people talking about it on PTS, but a lot of that died down once there was known to be an addon that "fixed" it for PC.

Everyone is outraged now because they added a cooldown ao the addon no longer works. You think all these people will continue to have the same outrage and posting volume if tomorrow ZoS removes the cooldown and everyone on PC can use the addon? Because I certainly don't.

Raegwyr

renne wrote: »

AlexWaff wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I gotta say, I sure hope all you PC folk who're up in arms about this right now will continue with the same level of outrage against the high levels of micromanagement in the green tree for console players as well instead of washing your hands of the issue once you get your addon back, should they go ahead and remove the cooldown.

Because this is the only way us console players are going to get the micromanagement alleviated, if PC players vocally complain as well.

It'd be nice if console players weren't here preteneding there's some sepearation, when there really isn't. Everybody's been pushing against this since pts, and the addon changed nothing - it's just a workaround for something that HAS to be changed.

The fact ZoS went and specifically targeted the addon is a cowardly way to tell us to stop wasting our time, and that they do not intend to even consider changing it.

Except there is. Yes, there were some people talking about it on PTS, but a lot of that died down once there was known to be an addon that "fixed" it for PC.

Everyone is outraged now because they added a cooldown ao the addon no longer works. You think all these people will continue to have the same outrage and posting volume if tomorrow ZoS removes the cooldown and everyone on PC can use the addon? Because I certainly don't.

No, there is not. I'm done with stupid wars where console blame pc for everything. We are angry, we want to change this stupid decision and addon was only a workaround. If console ppl would for once focus on what is important instead of these "addons are cheating" attitude maybe ZoS would listen. Why you always bring down every discussion to addons is beyond me. It is harmful to every discussion and only make a division instead of adding something valuable to the topic.
Important thing here is ZoS stupid decision, not fancy addon on PC. Focus on that instead making toxic comments about PC crowd because they can use addons...

DYSEQTA

renne wrote: »

I gotta say, I sure hope all you PC folk who're up in arms about this right now will continue with the same level of outrage against the high levels of micromanagement in the green tree for console players as well instead of washing your hands of the issue once you get your addon back

Pretty sure the vast majority of posters in this thread are pointing out that the system of slotables in the Craft tree is patently bad, including the OP. The Addon was made to work around an obviously and painfully flawed change being proposed.

What we want is for the Craft tree to be passive all the way which would mean console players would also be relieved of the no doubt worse tedium of having to try to change slotables on a regular basis using a controller. @ZOS_GinaBruno claims database performance concerns as the reason for the cooldown introduction and yet removing slotable mechanics from the Craft tree altogether would alleviate the problem entirely. So there's the ideal solution right there.

Sarannah

RedMuse wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.

Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.

The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.

I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.

The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.

Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?

Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.

Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.

I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.

Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.

No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.

I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.