Hidden 30- second cooldown on swapping CP's
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AlexWaff✭✭✭
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
Neither does this addon. It doesn't do anything different from all other addons. What you're describing is game mechanics available to everybody.
It is functionally impossible for an addon to give any kind of unintended advantage, addons exist to better customize and introduce UI functuionality that the base game doesn't want to waste resources implementing - same way WoW does it. The framework does not have an option to create an addon that is "unfair".
Following your logic, an addon that enables you to swap between presets of gear/skills is the only way for you to make use of those gear sets/skills, which they're not. They just make it more convenient.
This addon is the same, it just so happens it helped with something that's very badly desgined, and it stood out.12 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
Have you looked at the addon?
The loot advantage you are talking about comes from your unlocked slottables, which are designed to be swapped in and out. You can do that manually or you can use an addon for the same effect .
You can keep up without an addon! You just have to manually swap your slottables, which you say is perfectly fine. So what's your problem?
Literally the only advantage the addon would give is if you are refusing to manually swap your slottables for no reason other than it's really annoying to do it manually.
Or are you trying to say that you approve of the 30 second cooldown because it takes you 30 seconds to unslot Professional Upkeep after you repair your armor, and so it's an unfair advantage for addon players to do it faster than you?7 -
aldriq✭✭✭Have to agree with many people on this thread on the green tree being overly matched to the other 2 for slottables for no good reason. I can sort of understand things like movement speed and sneak penalty being slottables since they could arguably still help you before or after combat, but how on earth did anyone think any crafting or merchant interaction stars should be active? Can you imagine if Intimidating Presence or Persuasive Will or Temper Expertise were active skills? No, it would be ridiculous.
I will not be swapping green stars any time soon, with or without addons, so if this is the new idea of 'horizontal' progression on the green tree it is rather disappointing.13 -
Taggund✭✭✭✭Green tree is what I was most looking forward to, but I am most disappointed in. The way skills are setup changes how my characters as setup, and I'll need to split uses of alt characters to various functions (thief, farmer, crafting, etc.) based solely on the green tree. I really think too many CP are required to get to some of these as well. I remember having master gathering fairly early because I specifially selected skills to get it, but it was a challenge to get there now with almost double the CP due the prereq skills.14 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
Neither does this addon. It doesn't do anything different from all other addons. What you're describing is game mechanics available to everybody.
It is functionally impossible for an addon to give any kind of unintended advantage, addons exist to better customize and introduce UI functuionality that the base game doesn't want to waste resources implementing - same way WoW does it. The framework does not have an option to create an addon that is "unfair".
Following your logic, an addon that enables you to swap between presets of gear/skills is the only way for you to make use of those gear sets/skills, which they're not. They just make it more convenient.
This addon is the same, it just so happens it helped with something that's very badly desgined, and it stood out.
Pro tip: If ZoS thought the add-on was a problem, they could simply disallow it. They are under no obligation to allow something that they see as exploitive to persist. They don't even need to give a reason, they can just remove it from their approved list.
Of note, however, is that this thread is more about having to wait than having to swap, which does raise some questions about the true motivation. I am not likely to have to open any chests, or do any fishing while I'm crafting, so swapping in crafting for one of those while I'm crafting is no big deal, unless, of course, you read the forums. Then, it's the end of the world as we know it, sort of like the vampire changes.
Anyone else still seeing "need a bite" spam, despite all the "I'm curing all my vampires" that went viral fairly recently? It's almost as if the in game community and forums are different games, isn't it? It's like that everywhere, because the disaffected flock to the forums, and the people that either don't mind, or enjoy the changes may not ever look at the forums, let alone post. Even if they did look, they might see the way someone with a view that varies from the current FotM complaint is treated by "everyone else", and decide they don't need the friction.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was setting passives on my tank last night and was thwarted by this... really annoying when I want to compare the effects of 2 passives on my stat sheet and I get
for 30 seconds until the cool down is over.
Playing since beta...7 -
AlexWaff✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
Neither does this addon. It doesn't do anything different from all other addons. What you're describing is game mechanics available to everybody.
It is functionally impossible for an addon to give any kind of unintended advantage, addons exist to better customize and introduce UI functuionality that the base game doesn't want to waste resources implementing - same way WoW does it. The framework does not have an option to create an addon that is "unfair".
Following your logic, an addon that enables you to swap between presets of gear/skills is the only way for you to make use of those gear sets/skills, which they're not. They just make it more convenient.
This addon is the same, it just so happens it helped with something that's very badly desgined, and it stood out.
Pro tip: If ZoS thought the add-on was a problem, they could simply disallow it. They are under no obligation to allow something that they see as exploitive to persist. They don't even need to give a reason, they can just remove it from their approved list.
Of note, however, is that this thread is more about having to wait than having to swap, which does raise some questions about the true motivation. I am not likely to have to open any chests, or do any fishing while I'm crafting, so swapping in crafting for one of those while I'm crafting is no big deal, unless, of course, you read the forums. Then, it's the end of the world as we know it, sort of like the vampire changes.
Anyone else still seeing "need a bite" spam, despite all the "I'm curing all my vampires" that went viral fairly recently? It's almost as if the in game community and forums are different games, isn't it? It's like that everywhere, because the disaffected flock to the forums, and the people that either don't mind, or enjoy the changes may not ever look at the forums, let alone post. Even if they did look, they might see the way someone with a view that varies from the current FotM complaint is treated by "everyone else", and decide they don't need the friction.
No, this thread is all about how all of the Craft constellation's stars should have been passive by default, and we wouldn't have had to have an addon that they break. The cooldown only makes a nasty issue even worse, addon aside.
Now, not ONLY do you have to juggle inventories to swap stars to do all kinds of menial tasks, you also have to wait 1 minute for each swap back and forth. Oh, you're on a fishing trip, or a mining spree, and spot a juicy chest? swap in, loot it, wait a while to swap back out, then continue - why the hell? that's not choice, that's not fun, that's not helping anybody or anything.18 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
Neither does this addon. It doesn't do anything different from all other addons. What you're describing is game mechanics available to everybody.
It is functionally impossible for an addon to give any kind of unintended advantage, addons exist to better customize and introduce UI functuionality that the base game doesn't want to waste resources implementing - same way WoW does it. The framework does not have an option to create an addon that is "unfair".
Following your logic, an addon that enables you to swap between presets of gear/skills is the only way for you to make use of those gear sets/skills, which they're not. They just make it more convenient.
This addon is the same, it just so happens it helped with something that's very badly desgined, and it stood out.
Pro tip: If ZoS thought the add-on was a problem, they could simply disallow it. They are under no obligation to allow something that they see as exploitive to persist. They don't even need to give a reason, they can just remove it from their approved list.
Of note, however, is that this thread is more about having to wait than having to swap, which does raise some questions about the true motivation. I am not likely to have to open any chests, or do any fishing while I'm crafting, so swapping in crafting for one of those while I'm crafting is no big deal, unless, of course, you read the forums. Then, it's the end of the world as we know it, sort of like the vampire changes.
Anyone else still seeing "need a bite" spam, despite all the "I'm curing all my vampires" that went viral fairly recently? It's almost as if the in game community and forums are different games, isn't it? It's like that everywhere, because the disaffected flock to the forums, and the people that either don't mind, or enjoy the changes may not ever look at the forums, let alone post. Even if they did look, they might see the way someone with a view that varies from the current FotM complaint is treated by "everyone else", and decide they don't need the friction.
No, this thread is all about how all of the Craft constellation's stars should have been passive by default, and we wouldn't have had to have an addon that they break. The cooldown only makes a nasty issue even worse, addon aside.
Now, not ONLY do you have to juggle inventories to swap stars to do all kinds of menial tasks, you also have to wait 1 minute for each swap back and forth. Oh, you're on a fishing trip, or a mining spree, and spot a juicy chest? swap in, loot it, wait a while to swap back out, then continue - why the hell? that's not choice, that's not fun, that's not helping anybody or anything.
If only I couldn't read. What's the topic title again?0 -
AlexWaff✭✭✭By the way, do I have to remind everybody that one of the SLOTTABLE skills has a PASSIVE, ONCE A DAY EFFECT?
It clears 1k off of your bounty if it reaches 1k, but it can only do it once per day.
This is a slottable skill that happens once, and is then useless. So you don't even want to slot it, ever, or you're wasting ""space"". It's like taking all of these skills that should have been fully passive (and over half of them were, before the update), and making it even more so obviously better as a passive - yet still make it slottable.23 -
DigiAngel✭✭✭✭✭I saw similar this morning in Vet dungeons when trying to use DressingRoom to swap after combat...kept saying unable to change during combat, when clearly all 4 players were NOT in combat.3 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭Pink_Pixie wrote: »and it's been shown that player input is ignored.
.
This is happening since the first day of ESO PTS existence.4 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭I think this thread is broken, every time I read it, my last post is showing up in the reply box, despite being displayed in the conversation...
0 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.
So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:
1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.
Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.
My main char wakes up everyday and walks out of her snugpod straight to the stable master tent. She doesn't need riding lessons anymore, but the urns in there are tempting, so she checks them. If she gets lucky, the noble wood elf archer is fishing nearby and she gets a stab at stealing the elusive wood elf throne plan from his pocket.
She then goes into the outlaw refuge to sell a few things to the fence and pick up a few goodies from Remains Silent. Back out the same way she came in and up the ramp to do daily writs, stopping to pick up a mushroom and some wood - again, if she's lucky and those are there.
Inside Elden Root she talks to the lovely wood elf clothier, sells some more stuff, fix gear if necessary and check the urns nearby on her way to check notices for writs. In between each craft station she checks urns too.
Once crafts are done she goes out the door to turn them in - always keeping an eye on possible mats and containers.
For a while now, my main does her morning routine in her stealing attire because she's a wood elf and until yesterday there was no other way for her to be as stealthy as she was before the racial changes happened some time ago. It is somewhat time consuming to change gear, but since it's a town the chances of entering combat are small.
In the spawn of a few minutes my main steals, sells to the fence, interact with other vendors, gather mats, breaks down mats and gear and does writs.
With the new green tree I have to slot stars that add stealth, give me more money when I sell to the fence, gives me a change at better stolen loot and I'm left with a choice between master gatherer OR getting a chance at more items from the nodes.
Once inside Elden Root I now have a few choices - I can change the stars so I can get the best options when interacting with vendors and crafting and then go around the same areas a second time with "criminal" stars slotted; do a stealing round and then a second for crafting and dealing with vendors; or stop in front of each NPC and object I want to interact with and move stars around accordingly.
I really like the new CP, but the green tree seems to go against the other two. As my CP increases I can open stars that will allow me to go into PvP, heal or, if i make adjustments to my stats, even tank without having to log into an alt. Because the blue and red trees deals with planned activities, we can set the stars and go do whatever we planned since we know what to expect in those instances.
Gathering, looting, stealing, fishing and killing OTOH are spontaneous activities that might or not happening depending on where things spawn and/or other players who are a few steps ahead of you.29 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No, the add-ons never gave a loot advantage. Yes, add-ons are convenient, but they do not make you harvest more, or get more loot, have you spend less on repairs, nor make you kill enemies faster. So as someone who does not use add-ons, I could easily keep up.
Actually, ZOS wants what we pick to matter. Being able to switch them on the fly shouldn't happen, as that does no longer make it a choice. Which is exactly why I am for either a cooldown or only being able to swap in town.VaranisArano wrote: »Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?
Keep in mind, I voiced my opinion that the green tree should be passives. Even before the update went live. Which I still think should happen. But if they do not want to do that, a cooldown/townswap-only would be fair as well.
I am against micromanagement, and against players with an add-on having an in-game loot advantage over those who do not use add-ons.
Then why are you playing this game? Because addons gives major advantages to players who have them over those who don't and have since the beginning of the game. It's weird to continue to play a game where you hate that much of its base setup.
I know many players do not like my point of view on this cooldown thing, and that is fine. But for the gameplay, these actives either need to be passives, or they should not be able to be instantly switched on the fly.
It has nothing to do with not "liking" your point of view on cooldowns, and EVERYTHING to do with just being flat out wrong. Gina CLEARLY told us why they added the cooldown and it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting us to be able to switch out on the fly.
In towns? So you think it's great design to have players do a delve, come out needing to repair their gear, see a roaming vendor but can't even utilize them because they can't switch out their green tree? So it makes sense to you to maybe have to go to town after every delve/world boss? Seriously?There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway5 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »I think this thread is broken, every time I read it, my last post is showing up in the reply box, despite being displayed in the conversation...
You have to go to your profile, click the settings gear at the end, go to My Drafts, and delete any drafts you don't want to keep. That takes it out of showing in the reply pane all the time.11 -
Aisleyne✭✭✭✭✭Adding my voice to those asking for changes to the crafting tree. As a player, I care very much about crafting, gathering, housing, and the other things covered in the green tree. Whenever I'm out doing a quest or dailies or working on a new character, I stop for any node or chest I see. The way they are set up now is incredibly disappointing. They feel needlessly punishing to players that prefer to play organically, rather than go out with the intention solely to steal or go on gathering runs, or search for furnishing plans. I know there are people who do that, but I don't want to be pushed into a playstyle that I cannot enjoy.13 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Edited: it seems clear this cooldown wasn't done as a gameplay decision, but rather for performance concerns.
We should know at this point that "performance concerns" is actually ZOS code for "behavioral modifications."
The various Cyrodiil "performance" tests should have made that unequivocally clear by now.
Edited by Jaraal on March 9, 2021 3:36PMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.7 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Edited: it seems clear this cooldown wasn't done as a gameplay decision, but rather for performance concerns.
We should know at this point that "performance concerns" is actually ZOS code for "behavioral modifications."
The various Cyrodiil "performance" tests should have made that unequivocally clear by now.
My suspicion is that they were worried about the potential for slottable swapping addons to make rapid calls on the server, similar to how Master Merchant overloaded the server before they changed the API.
I think about Professional Upkeep, a slottable that really only needs to be active for the second or two it takes for me to click the button to repair my armor. There's potential for some fast slottable switches there. Same for stuff like pickpocketing - the actual act of pickpocmeting doesn't take long.
I think the answer, if ZOS wants there to be a cooldown, is to tailor the cooldown more closely to how long it takes to manually swap the slottables in and out. Which shouldn't be 30 seconds for the majority of players.
And if the server/database cannot handle players manually swapping their slottables around in under 30 seconds...well, I have questions.14 -
FluffyDoom✭✭✭So, I was watching a very popular ESO Stream Team streamer last night and Rich Lambert (ZOS creative director) was moderating and participating in the stream chat that had about 800 viewers.
The stream was something like 5 hours of the streamer updating his 18 character CP's, providing build information and a discussion about the 2.0 CP changes to the effect that Blue/Red trees were well liked and he tried to alleviate concerns over DPS loss and need for CP grinding, etc. When the discussion turned to the green tree there was a lot of comments about the lack of QOL, micromanaging, and the suggestion that many more of the green 'slottables' should have been passives and many had been passives in the past. Some viewers also chatted rather enthusiastic disapproval of the implementation of the green tree and this included both PC and console players.
Hopefully, since ZOS creative director was hearing from the streamer along with PC / console players directly, perhaps the green tree implementation will be improved. Anyway, we know at least he certainly has awareness of the issue and the pain points with the green tree in the event that he doesn't read the forums.
Although....I recall someone at ZOS saying they wanted the CP choices the players make to be "meaningful" and "have consequences" so I might be overly optimistic that any change is forthcoming.
I'm going to try to remain positive in the meantime and I've decided to take whatever penalty I'm missing out on because I'm simply not going to micromanage the green tree.....it's just not my idea of fun.
15 -
Vez✭✭✭Because the blue and red trees deals with planned activities, we can set the stars and go do whatever we planned since we know what to expect in those instances.
Gathering, looting, stealing, fishing and killing OTOH are spontaneous activities that might or not happening depending on where things spawn and/or other players who are a few steps ahead of you.
Shout this from the rooftops. Half the green tree slottables need to be non-slotted permanent passives.
@ZOS_GinaBruno22 -
CirithValaria✭✭✭✭"Oh hey wait there's a chest"...I'll just change my star constallations - to improve my loot ...and then I'll go back...
It should be a choice imo...thats just cheezy and greasy :PMotto:
“What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us...
What we have done for others and the world, it remains and is immortal...”
About me:
@Cirith-Valar'ia & @Lilith-Valar'ia (in-game)
| hardcore-casual | pc-eu / ps4-eu | pve | pvp | player since early beta | subscriber since early-launch |
| The Sanctum Sanctorum - founder & guild master |
Characters:@Cirith-Valar'ia(pc-eu)
Cirith Valar'ia | Dunmer (F) | Lady of Light, Templar DD (stamina) | (ex)VR 16 | Aldmeri Dominion (Master Crafter - all crafts, traits & styles.)
Nezghul Sithis | Breton (F) | Winter Ward, Warden Tank (magic) | lvl 50 | Aldmeri Dominion
Hakrate Hecate | Orc (F) | Dying Light, Templar DD (stamina, PvP) | lvl 50 | Aldmeri Dominion
Tummien-Vesien-Tulkki | Argonian (M) | Blood Shield, Nightblade Tank (magic) | (ex)VR 16 | Ebonheart Pact
Valonkantaja | Argonian (F) | Healer of the Hist, Templar Healer | (ex)VR 16 | Ebonheart Pact
Tulenvalaja | Argonian (M) | Guardian of the Hist, Dragonknight DD (magic) | (ex)VR 16 | Ebonheart Pact
Kuolon-Raatojen-Kaitsija | Argonian (M) | Corpsekeeper of the Hist, Necromancer Tank (magic) | lvl 20 | Ebonheart Pact
Kal-Mah | Argonian (F) | Spawn of Wamasu, Sorcerer Tank (magic) | (ex)VR 16 | Ebonheart Pact
Puutiainen | Bosmer (F) | Horny Ravager, Sorcerer DD (stamina) | (ex)VR 16 | Daggerfall Covenant
Musta-Surma | Khajiit (F) | Nightpawler, Nightblade DD - thief/murderer (stamina) | (ex)VR 16 | Daggerfall Covenant
T'Sok Shiar | Altmer (F) | Touched by Daedra, Sorcerer DD (magic) | (ex)VR 1 | Daggerfall Covenant (Master Cook - all recipes.)
S'auron | Khajiit (M) | Poison Paw, Dragonknight DD (stamina) | lvl 50 | Daggerfall Covenant
(1100CP)
@Lilith-Valar'ia(pc-eu)
Lilith Valar'ia | Dunmer (F) | Phœnix, Dragonknight Healer | lvl 25 | Aldmeri Dominion
Stormpaw | Khajiit (F) | Cpt. Pirate Puss, Sorcerer DD (stamina) | lvl 25 | Aldmeri Dominion
Iliath Valar'ia | Dunmer (F) | Storm Ward, Sorcerer Tank (magic) | lvl 25 | Aldmeri Dominion
Haudantakainen | Argonian (M) | Pale Avenger, Nightblade DD (magic) | lvl 25 | Ebonheart Pact
Kira Tal'Shiar | Breton (F) | Warrior of Light, Templar DD (magic) | lvl 10 | Ebonheart Pact
Sunpaw | Khajiit (M) | Crescent Moon Guardian, Templar Tank (stamina, PvP) | lvl 40 | Daggerfall Covenant
Shangri Shadowtusk | Orc (F) | Shadowtusk, Nightblade DD (stamina) | lvl 50 | Daggerfall Covenant
(180CP)
@CirithValaria(ps4-eu)
Topaz-dar | Khajiit (F) | Mysticat, Sorcerer DD (stamina) | lvl 5 | Aldmeri Dominion
Her-Frozen-Heart | Argonian (F) | Frozen Shield, Warden Tank (magicka) | lvl 5 | Daggerfall Covenant
Neazgûl | Redguard (F) | Bear Matron, Warden DD (stamina) | lvl 50 | Daggerfall Covenant
(160CP)6 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Whole Green tree should be passives
Nothing about it should "be you need this now but cant do it"...
This ^
The active bar should just be like 8 or 10 abilities from whatever tree (instead of split in 3) and let you go all dpsy or all tanky and green should be passive (could have one or two actives that had a combat focus like potion ones).
Not sure it would be good to allow all 12 slots to be combat. But I would like to be able to put green QOL in the other slots. Right now I have someone collecting surveys but I'm not using speed because they might open chests along the way or get a furniture recipe from a mob.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FluffyDoom wrote: »So, I was watching a very popular ESO Stream Team streamer last night and Rich Lambert (ZOS creative director) was moderating and participating in the stream chat that had about 800 viewers.
The stream was something like 5 hours of the streamer updating his 18 character CP's, providing build information and a discussion about the 2.0 CP changes to the effect that Blue/Red trees were well liked and he tried to alleviate concerns over DPS loss and need for CP grinding, etc. When the discussion turned to the green tree there was a lot of comments about the lack of QOL, micromanaging, and the suggestion that many more of the green 'slottables' should have been passives and many had been passives in the past. Some viewers also chatted rather enthusiastic disapproval of the implementation of the green tree and this included both PC and console players.
Hopefully, since ZOS creative director was hearing from the streamer along with PC / console players directly, perhaps the green tree implementation will be improved. Anyway, we know at least he certainly has awareness of the issue and the pain points with the green tree in the event that he doesn't read the forums.
Although....I recall someone at ZOS saying they wanted the CP choices the players make to be "meaningful" and "have consequences" so I might be overly optimistic that any change is forthcoming.
I'm going to try to remain positive in the meantime and I've decided to take whatever penalty I'm missing out on because I'm simply not going to micromanage the green tree.....it's just not my idea of fun.
Having consequences is great for combat related stuff. But for QOL upgrades? It ends up make thing not fun as people feel compelled to optimize random interactions. See a chest while harvesting? About to loot something you killed? Moving from one node to the next? Swap in between each. There is a cooldown? Do nothing for 20 seconds and then swap.
Better to not have the green tree than to tease people with it or add that level of interruption to micromanage it.18 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was wondering why the addon wouldn't work until I came here and saw this thread. I'm incredibly dissappointed in ZOS for this decision. I do not believe for one second that a 30 second cooldown is necessary to keep the server performing properly. If this were true, we would also have a 30 second cooldown on skill swaps... which we do not have.
It may be possible that with the addition of addons like this having no cooldown could lead to a potential issue. That I can believe, but not 30 seconds. A 30 second cooldown is impacting my gameplay experience without any addons at all. Also, in typical ZOS fashion, the error message which could have read "Please wait 30 seconds between swapping skills" instead reads something like "You don't have enough points"
ZOS, if you need a cooldown, don't lie about the reasons. Tell us straight that you don't like the addon.
If you need a cooldown, how about 5 seconds or even 10 seconds so it doesn't impact my non addon gameplay.
Can you have someone edit the error message so that players actually know what they are doing "wrong"?
Why is the green tree micromanagement minigame so precious to the dev team?22 -
FluffyDoom✭✭✭Have an agree @DaveMoeDee - I mentioned it because if that's the mentality of the devs then we're doomed = I give up.
Also the 30 second cooldown is impacting the blue/red slottables, so changing CP to min max dungeons/trials for certain achievements, scores and creative reacting to game mechanics is a new problem (ie: next boss is weak to flanking attacks so changing a CP is advantageous...but, waiting for 30 seconds impacts scores or speed run timers).
I also don't understand why we can't change CP "on the fly" but we can have addons with gear and both weapon bar load outs that can change gear/skills/weapons with one click......
9 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If the cooldown is needed for server performance then there is a major problem with the implementation of CP 2.0. Changing the values of four settings should never create any type of excess network or server activity. Personally I think they have a time of use to time of check bug and this was the easiest way to circumvent the problem. The thing is timers never truly fix these types of bugs and the bug will show itself again in the future. Even sadder is if the greens had all been passives as they should have been from the beginning then the timer never would have been needed.19 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Not sure it would be good to allow all 12 slots to be combat. But I would like to be able to put green QOL in the other slots. Right now I have someone collecting surveys but I'm not using speed because they might open chests along the way or get a furniture recipe from a mob.
About that:
The drop rates on furniture plans aren't nearly high enough to justify wasting a slottable space on a chance of a double drop. Most of the green tree have no business not being passives, but this particular one is just dumbfounding. Compounded low-chance RNG on a slottable? That's just a waste of a slot, and truly awful.
Now if it upped the base chance as well, we'd have something to talk about."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle7 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭if you want extra loot in the chest just give up your 10% mount speed, you can live without it.
if you want to find better fish just give up your 30 minutes on food, you don't use expensive food overland anyway.
you get the idea, you can live with just 4 slotted, you don't have to get all the possible bonuses at once. What's next, you ask for all spells passives just because you have skill points invested in them, why you need to slot the ability.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭if you want extra loot in the chest just give up your 10% mount speed, you can live without it.
if you want to find better fish just give up your 30 minutes on food, you don't use expensive food overland anyway.
you get the idea, you can live with just 4 slotted, you don't have to get all the possible bonuses at once. What's next, you ask for all spells passives just because you have skill points invested in them, why you need to slot the ability.
Sergykid, we know we only have 4 slots. It's design that we slot 4 stars at a time and swap out what we aren't using.
The issue is twofold:
A. It takes previously fluid gameplay and makes it into a swapping minigame. Meticulous Dissembly used to be a passive. Now, I have to slot/unslot it whenever I refine stuff. Did it and Plentiful Harvest really need to be active slottables when they've been passives for years?
B. There's a 30 second cooldown on swapping, which is just annoying. It takes about 2 seconds to repair my armor with Professional Upkeep, but I have to wait out the cooldown to swap it.
"Oh, but you don't need to use those slottables."
"Presumably, ZOS expected me to want to use them, or they wouldn't be in the game. Why, then, did they implement it in such a clunky fashion? Why turn some passives into active slottables? And then, why implement a cooldown on things that are obviously quick actions?"
"It's a slippery slope! You really want ALL the spells on your bar!"
"Um...excuse me? That came outta left field. Do you have a serious answer to our concerns or not?"
This repeated stating "you don't need to use these slottables" sounds more like "it's okay that these aren't user-friendly because you don't need to use them." Frankly, that's a bad excuse for bad design.22 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »if you want extra loot in the chest just give up your 10% mount speed, you can live without it.
if you want to find better fish just give up your 30 minutes on food, you don't use expensive food overland anyway.
you get the idea, you can live with just 4 slotted, you don't have to get all the possible bonuses at once. What's next, you ask for all spells passives just because you have skill points invested in them, why you need to slot the ability.
Sergykid, we know we only have 4 slots. It's design that we slot 4 stars at a time and swap out what we aren't using.
The issue is twofold:
A. It takes previously fluid gameplay and makes it into a swapping minigame. Meticulous Dissembly used to be a passive. Now, I have to slot/unslot it whenever I refine stuff. Did it and Plentiful Harvest really need to be active slottables when they've been passives for years?
B. There's a 30 second cooldown on swapping, which is just annoying. It takes about 2 seconds to repair my armor with Professional Upkeep, but I have to wait out the cooldown to swap it.
"Oh, but you don't need to use those slottables."
"Presumably, ZOS expected me to want to use them, or they wouldn't be in the game. Why, then, did they implement it in such a clunky fashion? Why turn some passives into active slottables? And then, why implement a cooldown on things that are obviously quick actions?"
"It's a slippery slope! You really want ALL the spells on your bar!"
"Um...excuse me? That came outta left field. Do you have a serious answer to our concerns or not?"
This repeated stating "you don't need to use these slottables" sounds more like "it's okay that these aren't user-friendly because you don't need to use them." Frankly, that's a bad excuse for bad design.
I'm interpreting his post as such. Because HE doesn't play in a similar manner it should be no big deal for the rest of us. Not sure if that's his intention, but it certainly reads like it.
Not a single post has asked that combat trees to be changed or even implied.Edited by Sevn on March 9, 2021 7:41PMThere is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway6