Hidden 30- second cooldown on swapping CP's
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Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.9 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.
So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:
1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.
Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.4 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey everyone, the cooldown was added to alleviate some performance concerns on both the server and database. As this was something that changed a system new with PTS, we didn't call it out in the Live launch notes.
Would it be possible to post something in PTS when these sorts of things happen? Those of us who do the things in PTS have an understanding and expectation of how things are "meant" to work and then assume it's a bug or mistake when it differs to the final release.3 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭It shouldn't be possible to collect every possible buff and passive in the game, just prioritize and choose carefully.
Like someone said, if swaps were instant, people would change passives between every pull.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It shouldn't be possible to collect every possible buff and passive in the game, just prioritize and choose carefully.
Like someone said, if swaps were instant, people would change passives between every pull.
Like PC players can currently instantly swap preset skill and gear layouts? Oh no, someone might swap their warfare and fitness slottables between mob pulls and bosses, what shall we do?
Edited: it seems clear this cooldown wasn't done as a gameplay decision, but rather for performance concerns. On one level, I understand that. On the other, if me slotting Profession Upkeep to repair my armor then unslotting it when I'm finished repairing armor after a second or two requires a 30 second cooldown to protect the server/database...well, I have questions about the coding.Edited by VaranisArano on March 8, 2021 11:05PM26 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just wanted to add my disgruntled "hmph" regarding this change. The green constellation is terrible and most of the things in it need to be passive.Playing since beta...9 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
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We didn't even have these passives before, so people should be grateful we got them. No, people shouldn't be able to do everything at the same time for free, sorry, but that's the right call.VaranisArano wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
Because I don't want to wait 15 seconds before I can slot the CP star I want?
Step 1: walk up to a vendor
Step 2: slot Professional Upkeep, which impacts armor repair
Step 3: repair armor
Step 4: wait 15 seconds?
Step 5: slot the star for whatever activity I'm doing next
Apparently, reducing the cost of repairing my armor needed a 15 second cooldown before I can slot the star for pickpocketing, or gathering, or anything else.
Can't satisfy players nowadays, they just have to collect every single buff available
Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr2 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lmao. I just slotted the passive fot what I am doing the most and feel no urge to micromanage my repair cost and other things. My green stars will be there forever.
I'm a console player and this is exactly what I said would happen - most people aren't going to be bothered with micromanaging their CP. They'll set and forget and just eat the penalties for all the other things they could have swapped to but either cannot be bothered OR in a lot of cases, forgotten to swap to before doing the activity.Edited by renne on March 8, 2021 11:03PM5 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
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We didn't even have these passives before, so people should be grateful we got them. No, people shouldn't be able to do everything at the same time for free, sorry, but that's the right call.VaranisArano wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
Because I don't want to wait 15 seconds before I can slot the CP star I want?
Step 1: walk up to a vendor
Step 2: slot Professional Upkeep, which impacts armor repair
Step 3: repair armor
Step 4: wait 15 seconds?
Step 5: slot the star for whatever activity I'm doing next
Apparently, reducing the cost of repairing my armor needed a 15 second cooldown before I can slot the star for pickpocketing, or gathering, or anything else.
Can't satisfy players nowadays, they just have to collect every single buff available
Except... this is not even true, because we DID have a lot of these things as passives before.43 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.
So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:
1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.
Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.
Crafting does not exist in a vacuum. It’s the fact that there is a slot passive that is only used at a crafting table. And that they have to switch them back when they are done.
Not going fishing? But suddenly the player comes across a fishing hole. Slot the fishing passive->go fishing->unslot passive. Treasure chest? Same thing. It’s endless.
Crafting table and fishing passives don’t need to be slotted. I have not reviewed all of them, but there are far too many of them.
It’s not like we can quickly change them out, or just swap them on the fly. It’s annoying to change them constantly since so many of them are rather mundane and of such limited use.10 -
DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wait...what??? The one thing I was really looking forward to about this patch was that add-on. With a 30 second cool-down, constantly switching green tree choices as I move around the map just turned into a even bigger PITA.12 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.
So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:
1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.
Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.
Crafting does not exist in a vacuum. It’s the fact that there is a slot passive that is only used at a crafting table. And that they have to switch them back when they are done.
Not going fishing? But suddenly the player comes across a fishing hole. Slot the fishing passive->go fishing->unslot passive. Treasure chest? Same thing. It’s endless.
Crafting table and fishing passives don’t need to be slotted. I have not reviewed all of them, but there are far too many of them.
It’s not like we can quickly change them out, or just swap them on the fly. It’s annoying to change them constantly since so many of them are rather mundane and of such limited use.
You might have a point, if we only had one slot. We don't. But let's put this in perspective, we're in a thread complaining about how 15 seconds is an eternity when it comes to swapping out for an activity that could take upwards of 5 minutes, crafting, or longer, dedicated gathering time/fishing. We're being led to believe that there's only one thing we can slot for at a time, which is bogus, since we can actually slot 4.
So, for your scenario, I'm likely to have my fishing, gathering and chest passives slotted for a day of fishing, leaving me one slot for whatever. That I may have to slot in something else, and then do whatever it is I swapped to, and that it starts a 15 second timer before I can swap back means very little, depending on exactly how long whatever I swapped to actually takes. There's even a chance that I can actually put four stars in and forget about them, depending on the toon, and what I'm actually doing.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
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We didn't even have these passives before, so people should be grateful we got them. No, people shouldn't be able to do everything at the same time for free, sorry, but that's the right call.VaranisArano wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
Because I don't want to wait 15 seconds before I can slot the CP star I want?
Step 1: walk up to a vendor
Step 2: slot Professional Upkeep, which impacts armor repair
Step 3: repair armor
Step 4: wait 15 seconds?
Step 5: slot the star for whatever activity I'm doing next
Apparently, reducing the cost of repairing my armor needed a 15 second cooldown before I can slot the star for pickpocketing, or gathering, or anything else.
Can't satisfy players nowadays, they just have to collect every single buff available
Hey, so you know, I do like the passives. That's why I'm annoyed that ZOS made them clunky to use. Being grateful to have nice things doesn't actually preclude me from pointing out where ZOS could improve them, especially for console players.
And I'm not sure why you think the price I should have to pay is a 30 second cooldown when swapping quickly, as opposed to, I dunno, the CP I had to grind to be able to use them?17 -
MageCatF4F✭✭✭✭Just reporting the facts here - somehow this idiotic delay made my game crash today, or it was a coincidence.
Anyway, I like exactly two things in this patch: recall to outside our house and the major gallop passive. So good job there, and I hate everything else. Just so you know.8 -
AlexWaff✭✭✭Every single person coming here to be a contrarian is missing the entire point:
NOTHING CHANGES if all of these passives were actually active at once, as a PASSIVE.
You CAN NOT SIMULTANEOUSLY DECONSTRUCT ITEMS, FISH, GATHER NODES, PICKPOCKET, FENCE ITEMS, REPAIR ARMOR, LOOT CHEST, LOOT LOCKBOXES ETC. These skills only ever come into action ONCE, for an INSTANT when you do a VERY SPECIFIC NON COMBAT RELATED ACTION.
Hence, there is no reason for them to be mutually exclusive. The 30 second cooldown is silly *because* it seems to be a direct response to this addon that helped make life livable. Nobody was hotswapping between the combat trees, either. Those skills are literally "slot and forget", and each build has a meta top numbers option - you won't swap those unless you're actually swapping your entire build, which you do *** rarely.
The only thing being negatively impacted here is Craft, because it was designed around something not made for it, in the worst way possible. They're just pretending not to see because nobody's paying them to make this change, as in, they are not allowed to make this technically system-altering decision.
So no, this won't happen. Addon's dead on arrival, the skills will never be passive - nobody's going to re-tag all those skills and delete a third of the slots for quality of life, it's irrelevant to the balance of the game and that's exactly why it's not a priority.
Thread over, accept it and boycott CP, just don't use any of it like me, who cares. Boo hoo, we lost all our gathering and loot buffs. Big deal, not like I was enjoying this game or anything at all ever for that matter, time to wail in my miserable existence like all other people.11 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Wait, there's a cooldown on swapping? I thought it was just a bug when I suddenly couldn't change out my stars. I wonder why ZOS implemented such a thing, Craft stars especially looking like something you'd need an addon to swap out any time you transition between overland, crafting or gathering, and I don't recall if there was such a cooldown mentioned on the PTS. Maybe a stealth nerf to prevent people from changing too often while the event is in place? Either way, it needs to be removed or at the very least be reduced to a more reasonable cooldown.
So you do all your crafting in under 15 seconds? Let's see how inconvenient this really is for crafting in particular:
1. I pick up my writ(s) for the day, and swap in my crafting star.
2. I run to the crafting station(s) and produce my items required.
3. I run to the location where I turn them in, and swap back to whatever may have been slotted previously.
4. Profit.
Hmm, seems like the steps between swapping at the end of one, and swapping back at the end of 3 will take a lot longer than 15 seconds, yes? The odds are, if I'm dedicating some time to fishing, or gathering, etc. I'll have something I can do w/out while I take care of that business, and fishing can for sure take a lot longer than 15 seconds.
Crafting does not exist in a vacuum. It’s the fact that there is a slot passive that is only used at a crafting table. And that they have to switch them back when they are done.
Not going fishing? But suddenly the player comes across a fishing hole. Slot the fishing passive->go fishing->unslot passive. Treasure chest? Same thing. It’s endless.
Crafting table and fishing passives don’t need to be slotted. I have not reviewed all of them, but there are far too many of them.
It’s not like we can quickly change them out, or just swap them on the fly. It’s annoying to change them constantly since so many of them are rather mundane and of such limited use.
You might have a point, if we only had one slot. We don't. But let's put this in perspective, we're in a thread complaining about how 15 seconds is an eternity when it comes to swapping out for an activity that could take upwards of 5 minutes, crafting, or longer, dedicated gathering time/fishing. We're being led to believe that there's only one thing we can slot for at a time, which is bogus, since we can actually slot 4.
So, for your scenario, I'm likely to have my fishing, gathering and chest passives slotted for a day of fishing, leaving me one slot for whatever. That I may have to slot in something else, and then do whatever it is I swapped to, and that it starts a 15 second timer before I can swap back means very little, depending on exactly how long whatever I swapped to actually takes. There's even a chance that I can actually put four stars in and forget about them, depending on the toon, and what I'm actually doing.
Did you count how many slot passives there are in the green tree? There are two for mounts alone.
Some of them make sense, like finding an extra furniture plans or extra gold. But most of them are used so occasionally that it’s stupid. Do we need to have green tree load outs for different situations?
I am in a delve, don’t need the mount passives, right?
I am running a trial, maybe I should have the group wait, while I swap out the refining passive?
It’s needless micromanagement.17 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I at least won't ever use the mount passives. My mounts go quite fast enough as it is. In fact, I generally don't ride anyway, since I'm always farming mats. Useless to mount unmount remount every few steps. It's true though that the mount passives will be huge for others.Edited by Sylvermynx on March 8, 2021 11:31PM2 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are bad ideas; there are terrible ideas; and then there's this."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle25 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.0 -
Adventurer✭✭✭Personally, I think they never should've made those abilities active, but passive, just like it was in the old tree withe Master Gatherer and other skills. I'd understand if it was combat skills, but having to slot treasure hunting, fishing, Master Gatherer and then swap them out for combat, that really sucks. Esp. if you're questing or running dungeons etc. and you find a fishing spot or a treasure chest you want to open. Or a node.14
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good, people shouldn't be able to switch CP on the fly.
Although it would have been better to only allow switching CP actives in town.
The entire idea behind slottables is that you can swap them around. You spend your CP, but you only slot 4 stars per tree.
I mean, stuff like Professional Upkeep is designed to be switched in on the fly. It literally only applies when you are repairing your armor. There's no reason to keep it on before or after.
The same is true for a number of the Craft tree slottables. Reel Technique and Angler's Instinct only needed when fishing. Infamous only needs to be equipped right when you sell your stolen goods to a fence. Shadowstrike is only useful if using the Blade of Woe. Cutpurse's Art only applies to pickpocketing. Meticulous Dissembly only needs to be equipped when refining, then unslotted, and so on.
Do you really want to argue that the green slottables weren't designed to be switched around on the fly?21 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hate to say it but this smells like ZOS put the cool down in for the add-on. Which I cannot help but find funny. Play on console and I made numerous comments about this micromanagement and few PC players spoke up about it. Most did not seem to care about knowing that an add-on would fix ZOS poor implementation of the new CP 2.0.
Not trying to bait and pick a fight, I just hope that since the PC, players are upset about this and ZOS seems only to really care about their voice vs. console players. Pray something happens and this gets fixed for all parties involved and for the health of the game.
Stay strong and safe and enjoy the journey
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totzummrdave_ESO✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »They probably did specifically because they wanted to keep the pain point.... they have said repeatedly they want our choices to have consequences, well if there is an adson that can ninja swap your cp, your choices have fewer consequences.....
And that consequence is they shall no longer receive money from me.13 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭totzummrdave_ESO wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »They probably did specifically because they wanted to keep the pain point.... they have said repeatedly they want our choices to have consequences, well if there is an adson that can ninja swap your cp, your choices have fewer consequences.....
And that consequence is they shall no longer receive money from me.
and my axe....12 -
Sirona_Starr✭✭✭✭✭they just kill the jackofalltrades addons! lollllllllll
but agree green tree should all be passives
that was posted 1000 times on the pts
and 96%+ agreed on that
but sure what we think doesnt count
I'm 110% convinced that most of the devs agree, but they spent so much designing the system they can't admit to themselves that this simple but annoying change is worth it, because surely it will just be way too weird if only 2 of the 3 trees have slottable skills, along with other cope justification one tells themselves when they're grasping at straws.
It's like spending a year working on a project and realizing a third of it didn't fit, but changing it would damage the integrity of the concept you want to introduce.
Or, they could just expand the green tree to have 8 or however many slottables.......... how hard can that be?18 -
AlexWaff✭✭✭Hate to say it but this smells like ZOS put the cool down in for the add-on. Which I cannot help but find funny. Play on console and I made numerous comments about this micromanagement and few PC players spoke up about it. Most did not seem to care about knowing that an add-on would fix ZOS poor implementation of the new CP 2.0.
Not trying to bait and pick a fight, I just hope that since the PC, players are upset about this and ZOS seems only to really care about their voice vs. console players. Pray something happens and this gets fixed for all parties involved and for the health of the game.
Stay strong and safe and enjoy the journey
People have been plenty vocal about this problem throughout all of the PTS, and it wasn't even acknowledged. Ignoring it is as good as saying "we want it this way, but we don't want to deal with the ugly mess of actually saying it, so we'll pretend we're dumb and hope you forget".
As for it actually getting adressed, they've all but given a hard no. The same hard no they gave about class change, and the same extremely hard, never ever no they gave about faction change.13 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭you don't need a passive for cheaper repair cost, you didn't have it before. Also you can use repair kits, they're cheaper than repairing your gear at a vendor.
you don't need passive for faster mount or no stamina cost. A upgraded horse won't even feel stamina draining and 10% mount speed won't change your life.
you don't need the passive for 30 minutes on food, food is cheap already and if you use expensive food then you don't need to use the expensive food during the time when you harvest nodes.
at most you may need to change the potion and food ones instead of harvesting nodes, and that when you join some serious content where you use your expensive food and potions, otherwise no need to change for insignificant bonuses-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube4