Overland is too easy!

PaddyVu

joseayalac wrote: »

Make it FUN please!

I love questing and I've been super satisfied with the storytelling of this game, but when it comes to combat in this kind of content, it just feels like a chore to spam my skills again and again just to kill some cardboard enemies.

I get that there's new players who can't even kill some of this bosses but you could make it scalable or introduce a vet overland or something.

This has been said countless times and is LOOOONG overdue!

Take off your gear and CP, fight barehand like a hero instead. Do you know what make players become famous? Because they think to make content more interesting, not beg for harder content. Go fight all bosses barehand like this player in dark soul 3.
Have a good day sir !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR7Z3EPS27s

newtinmpls

icapital wrote: »

Some of you remember difficulty levels that no longer exist in this game.

If the "difficulty of the game" was the only factor, you would be right.

But it's not.

It's kiting without thinking about it.
It's knowing the "tells" when the boss is gonna do something nasty (or even a random 2-hand-weilder)
It's having the right passives
Using the right skill combo with the right type of armor.

For someone new to the game, who doesn't know how to notice the tells, the red, who doesn't keep track of is their food expired and what potions are they using - it is a very different game.

And to run a long term game, ZoS can NOT make overland hard enough to crush those people, because they are the new players and the new money.

So
-play with only one hand, to represent lack of intuitive use of coordination of mouse/keyboard
-wear a mix of armor types; less than 5 of any sort; not enough of any one set to get more than 1 bonus by accident
-No improvements to armor via glyphs or crafting
-turn your combat metrics so that you Can NOT see the red
-only use one skill per actual minute of gameplay; the rest is medium attacks only (not light so no ulti regen, not heavy so no resource regen).

This is what overland is set to.
If you are playing with more skill than this, then it will not be a challenge, so IF you want a challenge THEN go to another part of the game.

Yes, I'd totally be in favor of a "difficulty slider". But there isn't one at this time.

newtinmpls

icapital wrote: »

This is an MMORPG - FIRST everything else second. Therefore, it has to cater to a wide spectrum of players with the medium being semi-hardcore players a.k.a casuals.
.

You have just answered your own question.

Since there is currently NOT a difficulty slider, the way people "chose a difficulty" is to chose what content to play.

Overland OR delves OR public dungeons OR Undaunted OR vet content OR trials.

If or when there is a slider, then you can adjust the difficulty to your preference.

Since currently there is not a difficulty slider, you can adjust your location choice to choose your difficulty.

PigofSteel

Put up lvl 10 gear and have fun...

volkeswagon

Overland is annoying as hell. NPC'S every 5 feet. All you do is kill, kill, kill everytime you turn around. It's ridiculous. Not very creative. It's hard enough. They really should remove all NPC'S from paths so you can travel the roads in peace. But just for you toughness enthusiasts they should create a vet server where overland is harder. Same drops just tougher.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I've seen so many threads like this that I can almost predict what people will say.

Sometimes, people want overland harder so the life or death narrative eso tries to sell us will carry just a smidge more weight. Other times, people want dungeons and trials to be more accommodating to smaller groups because people want to either solo, or RP with friends.

I zero reason one should happen without the other, and we need to admit nothing would be lost on either side if that was the case.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I will admit that I find the "just gimp yourself argument" to be so disrespectful.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Hmm.

The problem with creating difficult overland content is that the people that want it don't actually seem to want it. I say that based on the fact that you don't see these players regularly at the difficult overland content that already exists. Assuming there are a lot of you, I don't see a lot of you around doing the world bosses and harrowstorms.

If I had to guess, I'd say this happens because most people don't stand in one spot and kill one mob over and over again.

But like I said, it's just a guess.

I'm talking about the collective, not the individual.

If the people who claim they want hard overland content actually wanted it they would be all over the hard overland content that already exists. Obviously i t wouldn't be the same person standing there every time, but if you visited a harrowstorm or a world boss, this demographic who claims they want hard content would be doing the hard content. So why aren't they consistently and reliably there?

Where are they? What they want exists in the game already right now. Where are they? Considering they aren't doing the difficult overland content now, what makes anyone think they would consistently do the difficult overland content that gets added? I don't think they would. What I've observed doesn't support the conclusion that these players who claim they want this stuff would actually do the stuff, and neither does the history of the zone that was Craglorn.

...we already beat it all because there is so little actual challenging overland content you can blaze through it in a few hours if you're on the right spawn timers.

eKsDee

Just copy paste Battle Spirit, change the Battle Spirit copy to adjust damage done and damage received, add a new dropdown in the character sheet that has a selection of difficulty settings (bonus points if it's a slider), and have the Battle Spirit copy to scale the damage done/received adjustments off of the chosen difficulty setting.

Most of it is literally already there, they just need to remove some stat adjustments, add an additional stat adjustment, copy paste the title selector (again, bonus points for adding a new slider instead) and make it a difficulty selector, and tie the stat adjustments to the difficulty selector.

This is such a tired topic that is marred with so much controversy because the argument for it is always twisted and blown vastly out of proportion by those against it, just put it out of its misery and give those looking for a more engaging overland experience something to help them out.

Stokowski

I can chill and explore.
Or pay a fraction more attention on quests.
Or get more serious with more serious challenges.
Or go completely hardcore with certain content.
Whatever I feel like.

The notion that "one size fits all", and that it has to be the most difficult setting, is absurd when "one size" doesn't even fit a single player.

Refactoring overland content to appease those few demanding uniformity would be sheer folly, and not just as a waste of development resources better spent on new content.

AvalonRanger

"Overland is too easy !"

Really? I don't think so.

I saw many of level#10 players who fell in front of World Boss just in 10 seconds
after combat starting. And, I couldn't save them. I became CP339 DK tank build now.
So I can handle some of Over Powered World Boss, but not all of them.

Don't change difficulty much more. Otherwise, newbie will abandon ESO forever.
Combat is just part of ESO, but feel the Tamriel atmosphere is more important content
than just slay the enemy NPC.

Seminolegirl1992

Starlock wrote: »

Hmm.

The problem with creating difficult overland content is that the people that want it don't actually seem to want it. I say that based on the fact that you don't see these players regularly at the difficult overland content that already exists. Assuming there are a lot of you, I don't see a lot of you around doing the world bosses and harrowstorms.

So... where are you? Why aren't you doing this content that you say that you want? I remember running through (attempt to, anyway) some of the harrowstorms on my tank a few weeks ago and they were basically impossible to do because nobody would show up. I still remember the one I stubbornly tried to do hoping people could be bothered. They did, sort of, but we had like 4 mini bosses up at any given time and it was... awful. it was only fun for maybe the first couple minutes of "wow, I can't believe I'm managing to tank all this OK" until it became just an awful "where the bleep is everyone else please make it stop!"

Players that are asking for harder overland content are referring largely to story encounters. We don't really get joy out of soloing harrowstorms and world bosses. What they're asking for is immersive encounters while questing. So that 'bosses' like Molag Bal don't get smacked on the head with a rotten stick and go boom. Overland mobs are pathetic and annoying- and while I would like for a veteran option to overland while *questing*, I would definitely not want that while farming. A toggled option is an idea. Also- reduce the number of mobs. They're friggin everywhere and pointless. So yes, people asking for it do want it. People saying "just go solo a harrowstorm" are missing the point. Soloing harrowstorms has nothing to do with the story. What the heck is the point of playing the game for a challenge if the only challenging content is trials, dlc dungeons, harrowstorms, and dragons? It's an rpg (role playing game). I'm currently working on getting back into Skyrim for giggles because I had an itch to play it again- and I can guarantee if everything fell over pathetically like it does in ESO, it would not be fun *at all*. You level up and get good gear and weapons and feel like a bad ar$3- why should you have to gimp yourself in a game to have immersive encounters? In every rpg I've ever played, bosses felt like bosses. No matter how decked out I was. No matter how much experience and armor and skills I had- bosses presented a challenge. Vet players want that. They don't want to camp out at harrowstorms for a thrill lol.

Seminolegirl1992

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Folks, who create these threads, wouldn't actually show up if they got their way in a manner that was just to the game developers and rest of the players. Time and time again gamers have proven their inner dunn-kruger. Demand difficulty but quiting immediately and sticking in the shallows where they feel safe and mighty. There is plenty of difficulty scale in this MMO, a progression of difficulty, if you hide in the content that is easy then more power to you... you have nothing yo complain about.

But make no mistake we all know your true intentions when you start talking "rewards" or "compensation". The true intentions is to get the rewards that others get from content that you can do. Only if you do vet play, should you get vet rewards. Overland content can not be rebalanced, the delve boss isn't going to become a vet dungeon boss because those are geared for groups and the delve boss geared for solo players... you cant have the vet boss rewards for the delve boss no matter how many hit points they give it, it's functionality is too stunted to be a challenge.

Like most human beings I run my random dailies on normal and do my dungeon dailies on vet. There is no reason to run vet random, the mailed and xp rewards are the same and you can get it done faster for more transmute on multiple characters. Likewise you get two keys for vet instead of one making it a requirement. Outside the keys and monster helms, there's no logical reason to waste time running vet... your better off running weekly trials on vet for perfected sets.

So when your talking about overland, most folks roll their eyes as they should. You don't want progress, you want rewards that require actual progress and group play with out putting in the work required to get there.

Cause when I take a break from the grind, I fool around in public dungeons and delves, slaughter mobs silly and read the quest dialogs and nostalgically remember how hard they were when I didn't know nuffin but how much more awesome I am now.

Nope. Don't want the rewards. They're all trash. I just want to play with my rp quest partner and have a modicum of a challenge against a daedric freaking prince that hits like a wet noodle and dies when I throw apples at it. Or any other quest story boss. Most everyone here is talking about immersion in an rpg. Don't put words in our mouths

CP5

newtinmpls wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

Some of you remember difficulty levels that no longer exist in this game.

If the "difficulty of the game" was the only factor, you would be right.

But it's not.

It's kiting without thinking about it.
It's knowing the "tells" when the boss is gonna do something nasty (or even a random 2-hand-weilder)
It's having the right passives
Using the right skill combo with the right type of armor.

For someone new to the game, who doesn't know how to notice the tells, the red, who doesn't keep track of is their food expired and what potions are they using - it is a very different game.

And to run a long term game, ZoS can NOT make overland hard enough to crush those people, because they are the new players and the new money.

So
-play with only one hand, to represent lack of intuitive use of coordination of mouse/keyboard
-wear a mix of armor types; less than 5 of any sort; not enough of any one set to get more than 1 bonus by accident
-No improvements to armor via glyphs or crafting
-turn your combat metrics so that you Can NOT see the red
-only use one skill per actual minute of gameplay; the rest is medium attacks only (not light so no ulti regen, not heavy so no resource regen).

This is what overland is set to.
If you are playing with more skill than this, then it will not be a challenge, so IF you want a challenge THEN go to another part of the game.

Yes, I'd totally be in favor of a "difficulty slider". But there isn't one at this time.

You said it yourself in that having game knowledge makes overland easy, having challenging fights that used more engaging mecanics would both make the fights less boring for experienced players and give newer players the chance to learn how to play, the only people who suffer would be those who are half afk trying to auto-piolet through content without responding to the game. Having newer players learn those things, as well as explore provisioning, alchemy, and the like, would all be good changes. Those restrictions you listed only serve to lengthen boring fights, it doesn't matter if it takes me 3s or 10s to kill a boss if they are too busy monologuing to fight back.

And as an experienced player, I want to enjoy the vast majority of the game but can't because of how painfully dull it is, eating cardboard at least has texture, and saying to "go to another part of the game," is basically saying, "your only place is in those tiny instanced areas and the rest of the game is for others, have fun" and that's not a mentality I think will get us far.

barney2525

Why does the Company have to change the product, when the player has myriad options to adjust the content difficulty for themselves?

Malthorne

I think a good start to providing engaging overland content for those who want it would be to implement a separate “veteran” instance for each new chapter and dlc going forward.
This way everyone who wants the current super easy mode will have nothing change for them,

Alurria

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

C'mon guys... you end game players allready have 0.1% of the game all to youre self... Now you want to be able to paly the meager 99% for new players too

Starlock wrote: »

I'm talking about the collective, not the individual.

If the people who claim they want hard overland content actually wanted it they would be all over the hard overland content that already exists. [...] So why aren't they consistently and reliably there?

Where are they? What they want exists in the game already right now. Where are they? Considering they aren't doing the difficult overland content now, what makes anyone think they would consistently do the difficult overland content that gets added? [...].

Draons & Harrowstorms are a part of the entire experience. Wy would someone just randomly go and do a dragon ? If you're on the other hand allready in the area for a quest and you see a dragon flying over your head and landing near by...

EDIT:

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Show me the videos I can't find them. I am cp810 and if I equip dd gear rather than tank gear, I still die to a pack of wolves if I stand there and do nothing.

in this thred https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524584/why-is-this-game-so-easy/p17

Dahveed wrote: »

My naked, CP-less, skill-less brand new character with no stats and no buffs killing an elite enemy in the overworld, pressing two buttons: The directional arrow key "left", and the "1" key.

I finish the fight with 100% health.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB-3LANzQAQ

Very impressive, but that monster didn't throw one spell. By moving this person avoided all direct attacks. This example is misleading. Most overland bosses use spells or snares. I get it, someone is bored and wants to do something different. These threads are kinda pointless. It's more about the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. Obviously you didn't play this game when it first came out. When I first stepped foot in craglorn when it came out I couldn't go anywhere without dieing. It caused me to quit for a while. I don't want to be forced back into group play. Thanks but no thanks.

Seminolegirl1992

CP5 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

Some of you remember difficulty levels that no longer exist in this game.

If the "difficulty of the game" was the only factor, you would be right.

But it's not.

It's kiting without thinking about it.
It's knowing the "tells" when the boss is gonna do something nasty (or even a random 2-hand-weilder)
It's having the right passives
Using the right skill combo with the right type of armor.

For someone new to the game, who doesn't know how to notice the tells, the red, who doesn't keep track of is their food expired and what potions are they using - it is a very different game.

And to run a long term game, ZoS can NOT make overland hard enough to crush those people, because they are the new players and the new money.

So
-play with only one hand, to represent lack of intuitive use of coordination of mouse/keyboard
-wear a mix of armor types; less than 5 of any sort; not enough of any one set to get more than 1 bonus by accident
-No improvements to armor via glyphs or crafting
-turn your combat metrics so that you Can NOT see the red
-only use one skill per actual minute of gameplay; the rest is medium attacks only (not light so no ulti regen, not heavy so no resource regen).

This is what overland is set to.
If you are playing with more skill than this, then it will not be a challenge, so IF you want a challenge THEN go to another part of the game.

Yes, I'd totally be in favor of a "difficulty slider". But there isn't one at this time.

You said it yourself in that having game knowledge makes overland easy, having challenging fights that used more engaging mecanics would both make the fights less boring for experienced players and give newer players the chance to learn how to play, the only people who suffer would be those who are half afk trying to auto-piolet through content without responding to the game. Having newer players learn those things, as well as explore provisioning, alchemy, and the like, would all be good changes. Those restrictions you listed only serve to lengthen boring fights, it doesn't matter if it takes me 3s or 10s to kill a boss if they are too busy monologuing to fight back.

And as an experienced player, I want to enjoy the vast majority of the game but can't because of how painfully dull it is, eating cardboard at least has texture, and saying to "go to another part of the game," is basically saying, "your only place is in those tiny instanced areas and the rest of the game is for others, have fun" and that's not a mentality I think will get us far.

100% this. I think it's poo when they say things like, "well go do this, you can't enjoy the *main* aspect of the game. Go do a trial or something," as if that's the only content we're allowed to enjoy because it presents a slight challenge. It's incredibly disingenuous. I want casual players to be able to experience all aspects of the game, which is why normal exists so they can experience everything. It's silly to tell experienced players they can only enjoy .1% of the game when many of us genuinely love the immersion and are passionate about the story. We just happen to be good at killing things, god forbid.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We have recently removed and edited some baiting comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Septimus_Magna

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DukeCybran wrote: »

Try to withdraw your CP and to run without a set, or go to Craglorn or craft yourself a set of level 5 gear.

Gimping yourself is not the same as more difficult content unless you get a reward for it. I want to use the gear that took hours/days/weeks/months to collect. I am not withdrawing my CP every time Im doing a quest, then have to allocate them for a dungeon run and having to withdraw them again for doing a quest. Ive done Craglorn mostly solo but thats just one zone, the new quests are often not in Craglorn.

I would be fine with an item that equips in my costume slot that lets me take more damage, deal less damage while gaining more XP/loot/gold for example.

And every one of these threads always goes to the same place.

"I'm too powerful because I built myself specifically to be powerful, so you need to give me harder content that matches my elite skill level, and then give me good rewards for beating it so I can get even more power so I can set myself even further above the other noobs in zone!"

It really makes me wonder what the average DPS of players on the forums is versus what it is in game. If the average DPS in game were what it was on the forums, we'd never hear any comments about failed PUGs since people would be able to DPS anything down without effort.

I get wanting more out of the story. I'm one of those people who'd love to be able to solo dungeons for the stories. Give me back the quests, get rid of the 'you need two people' mechanics like the second Direfrost plate or the pins, and just let me see the dialogue. No rewards, no bonus XP, no gold, nothing. My reward would be finally getting to see the storyline. I get that this is probably one of the points of the Companions system. But Companions won't reset the dialogue for the quests I've already done.

Also remember they had adventure zones, and they failed since people said it was too hard. Yes, now we have the benefit of CP and power creep, but there's also a decent nerf to DPS coming up in the next patch. Besides, there are enough people who need help and nobody wants to go do it - I know so many people park their characters in Vivec/Alinor/Rimmen, but how many new players in those zones can actually find people to help with the WBs? Even though there are quests to get them, I very rarely see people taking on WBs in Vvardenfell or NElsweyr, or dealing with any of the dragons outside of the one by the wayshrine. As a result, new Lv. 25 players with white gear, no sets, and no consumables are getting one shot by these, not getting help, and then think that overland is too hard. Sure, we could have the 'veteran' instance of a zone, but then that still leaves all the noobs together so they can't complete anything unless they go to the vet when they're not ready.

Mostly there's just no incentive for the devs to do that - I doubt people would want to pay for overland versions of the same zones, and that would take as much work to redo all of the overland encounters as it would be to make a new chapter. People are already complaining "is that it?" with the antiquities, and now there are more complaints about companions and how that one feature isn't worth the cost of a chapter. How would people react if ZOS came out and said "hey, $60 and you get the same game, but all we did was buff Bittergreen the Guar to be on the level of Z'Maja!"

Nice story but you have to understand that giving players an option will change nothing for players who dont change the difficulty. Every argument comes back to the point that overland difficulty is not too easy for inexperienced players, which doesnt explain why couldnt be more challenging for experienced players. Similar to dungeons and trails for example.

In the first period of the game there was no difficulty option for dungeons and trails, they were simply leveled to match the party, either to the leader or lowest level group member I dont remember exactly. Eventually ZOS recognized that there is a difference in skill level which led to dungeons and trails getting an easier version with normal mode.

Now the experienced players ask for overland content to match their skill level and its not possible? Yes, there are plenty challenges if you look for them, you can solo WBs, dragons, harrowstorms or vet dungeons but that wont change the fact that new quest lines from DLCs are boring for experienced players who have been supporting ZOS for a long time.

Sevn

My God the number of post that keep mentioning WoW or other games that do this or that, suggestion, go play that game that plays the way you want?.

Every week such a pointless request.

One, what level of difficulty are they going to use? Normal dungeons? Vet dungeons? Hard mode vet trial boss? Just how many different overworlds will be needed? I'll bet you anything if you put a poll up asking what level would be cool you'd get a split vote, so not even the folks who keep asking for this can agree on difficulty.

Two, just how often will they have to keep redoing overland? It doesn't matter what level they make it, some will still find it easy, blow through it all in no time and be right back here asking for more and more tweaks and better rewards. They will NEVER be content.

Which brings us lastly to rewards. If it's really about challenge than stop asking for better rewards to incentivize you. Period. Wasting the devs time on this is your reward because I know most have zero interest in actually paying for anything like this.

Players build up this super beast of a character and then complains the game is too easy and refuses to do anything about it themselves because they put so many hours into creating this godlike toon. Well duh the content is too easy then and it ALWAYS will be if you keep getting better gear/items and you know it, so why keep asking for better rewards for incentive when it will put you right back where you started?

Because it's really about the loot.

Starlock

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Hmm.

The problem with creating difficult overland content is that the people that want it don't actually seem to want it. I say that based on the fact that you don't see these players regularly at the difficult overland content that already exists. Assuming there are a lot of you, I don't see a lot of you around doing the world bosses and harrowstorms.

If I had to guess, I'd say this happens because most people don't stand in one spot and kill one mob over and over again.

But like I said, it's just a guess.

I'm talking about the collective, not the individual.

If the people who claim they want hard overland content actually wanted it they would be all over the hard overland content that already exists. Obviously i t wouldn't be the same person standing there every time, but if you visited a harrowstorm or a world boss, this demographic who claims they want hard content would be doing the hard content. So why aren't they consistently and reliably there?

Where are they? What they want exists in the game already right now. Where are they? Considering they aren't doing the difficult overland content now, what makes anyone think they would consistently do the difficult overland content that gets added? I don't think they would. What I've observed doesn't support the conclusion that these players who claim they want this stuff would actually do the stuff, and neither does the history of the zone that was Craglorn.

...we already beat it all because there is so little actual challenging overland content you can blaze through it in a few hours if you're on the right spawn timers.

So what this tells me is that what you are really looking for is NEW content more than DIFFICULT content.

If the real mentality is "I want to beat this difficult content once then I'm not going to do it anymore" let's consider for a second what that would mean for the long-term accessibility of various overland zones in the game. Once the "I want difficult content" crowd finishes a zone, it becomes a ghost town and everyone else struggles to get anything done at all in that zone. This happened with Craglorn when it was a group zone, and it happens now with the difficult content that already exists in overland.

That's why the developers aren't giving you this, guys. Keeping older zones populated and active is a major priority in GaaS because nothing leaves a worse impression of your game than a huge open-world game that is empty of players. If entry-level content in particular is overly difficult, you get players washing out before they even get started.

As I recall, staff have mentioned they looked into something like a personal difficulty slider at one point. That's a far better idea to get behind than "just make it all more difficult" when that isn't going to be healthy for the game. While we wait for the developers to add a handicap toggle, we can do it ourselves, as others have already suggested.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Folks, who create these threads, wouldn't actually show up if they got their way in a manner that was just to the game developers and rest of the players. Time and time again gamers have proven their inner dunn-kruger. Demand difficulty but quiting immediately and sticking in the shallows where they feel safe and mighty. There is plenty of difficulty scale in this MMO, a progression of difficulty, if you hide in the content that is easy then more power to you... you have nothing yo complain about.

But make no mistake we all know your true intentions when you start talking "rewards" or "compensation". The true intentions is to get the rewards that others get from content that you can do. Only if you do vet play, should you get vet rewards. Overland content can not be rebalanced, the delve boss isn't going to become a vet dungeon boss because those are geared for groups and the delve boss geared for solo players... you cant have the vet boss rewards for the delve boss no matter how many hit points they give it, it's functionality is too stunted to be a challenge.

Like most human beings I run my random dailies on normal and do my dungeon dailies on vet. There is no reason to run vet random, the mailed and xp rewards are the same and you can get it done faster for more transmute on multiple characters. Likewise you get two keys for vet instead of one making it a requirement. Outside the keys and monster helms, there's no logical reason to waste time running vet... your better off running weekly trials on vet for perfected sets.

So when your talking about overland, most folks roll their eyes as they should. You don't want progress, you want rewards that require actual progress and group play with out putting in the work required to get there.

Cause when I take a break from the grind, I fool around in public dungeons and delves, slaughter mobs silly and read the quest dialogs and nostalgically remember how hard they were when I didn't know nuffin but how much more awesome I am now.

Nope. Don't want the rewards. They're all trash. I just want to play with my rp quest partner and have a modicum of a challenge against a daedric freaking prince that hits like a wet noodle and dies when I throw apples at it. Or any other quest story boss. Most everyone here is talking about immersion in an rpg. Don't put words in our mouths

This isn't some new thread, there are plenty who speak of "increased" rewards to match the "increased" difficulty in this thread and the many similar threads that pop up with the regularity of that demand the same exact thing. If your not that you, then I'm not talking to you and you have no right to internalize that you because it's not about you. But those yous do exist and you have no right to try to obfuscate my entry by conflating your desires with my message to others whom seek to increase their reward levels doing content that does not deserve them.

I dont care about your immersion, your play, you do what you want, I dont mind. But if you stay in overland content the base mobs have 31k health 9k armor and do a heavy attack with a 4 sec cool down... thats it. The bosses might have 128k health 15k armor and use three different attacks on a 7 sec cool down. And no matter what hp you given or where you put the armor they still have limited attacks on a cool down.

Don't be the folks that hide in content they've out grown wishing it would magically become valid again. You graduated from elementary school, go to high school now(dungeons) and work your way into college(trials). You can still pass by the old elementary school but I promise you the books are always gonna be the same.

Seminolegirl1992

Sevn wrote: »

My God the number of post that keep mentioning WoW or other games that do this or that, suggestion, go play that game that plays the way you want?.

Every week such a pointless request.

One, what level of difficulty are they going to use? Normal dungeons? Vet dungeons? Hard mode vet trial boss? Just how many different overworlds will be needed? I'll bet you anything if you put a poll up asking what level would be cool you'd get a split vote, so not even the folks who keep asking for this can agree on difficulty.

Two, just how often will they have to keep redoing overland? It doesn't matter what level they make it, some will still find it easy, blow through it all in no time and be right back here asking for more and more tweaks and better rewards. They will NEVER be content.

Which brings us lastly to rewards. If it's really about challenge than stop asking for better rewards to incentivize you. Period. Wasting the devs time on this is your reward because I know most have zero interest in actually paying for anything like this.

Players build up this super beast of a character and then complains the game is too easy and refuses to do anything about it themselves because they put so many hours into creating this godlike toon. Well duh the content is too easy then and it ALWAYS will be if you keep getting better gear/items and you know it, so why keep asking for better rewards for incentive when it will put you right back where you started?

Because it's really about the loot.

Give me an example of the loot you think veteran players want. I can promise you it doesn't drop from overland content.

Malthorne

Sevn wrote: »

Because it's really about the loot.

Nah. Don’t get me wrong, I love loot. I wouldn’t complain. Questing is about the the experience. As it stands the experience seems to be severely lacking for a lot of players.


The only players I see bringing up “rewards” or “loot” are the ones who are against the optional difficulty.

Starlock

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Give me an example of the loot you think veteran players want. I can promise you it doesn't drop from overland content.

Uh.... well...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/556426/how-important-is-your-character-s-appearance/p1

Considering the demographics of this forum, which leans heavily towards those who have been playing this game for years (aka, veterans), and that 71% of us said appearance is important?

.... well...

... it's not like motifs that help enhance appearance drop from overland world dailies or anything right? Nah. That's not important. No veteran players care about how they look. Nope. Nuh-uh. Just look away.

Seminolegirl1992

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Folks, who create these threads, wouldn't actually show up if they got their way in a manner that was just to the game developers and rest of the players. Time and time again gamers have proven their inner dunn-kruger. Demand difficulty but quiting immediately and sticking in the shallows where they feel safe and mighty. There is plenty of difficulty scale in this MMO, a progression of difficulty, if you hide in the content that is easy then more power to you... you have nothing yo complain about.

But make no mistake we all know your true intentions when you start talking "rewards" or "compensation". The true intentions is to get the rewards that others get from content that you can do. Only if you do vet play, should you get vet rewards. Overland content can not be rebalanced, the delve boss isn't going to become a vet dungeon boss because those are geared for groups and the delve boss geared for solo players... you cant have the vet boss rewards for the delve boss no matter how many hit points they give it, it's functionality is too stunted to be a challenge.

Like most human beings I run my random dailies on normal and do my dungeon dailies on vet. There is no reason to run vet random, the mailed and xp rewards are the same and you can get it done faster for more transmute on multiple characters. Likewise you get two keys for vet instead of one making it a requirement. Outside the keys and monster helms, there's no logical reason to waste time running vet... your better off running weekly trials on vet for perfected sets.

So when your talking about overland, most folks roll their eyes as they should. You don't want progress, you want rewards that require actual progress and group play with out putting in the work required to get there.

Cause when I take a break from the grind, I fool around in public dungeons and delves, slaughter mobs silly and read the quest dialogs and nostalgically remember how hard they were when I didn't know nuffin but how much more awesome I am now.

Nope. Don't want the rewards. They're all trash. I just want to play with my rp quest partner and have a modicum of a challenge against a daedric freaking prince that hits like a wet noodle and dies when I throw apples at it. Or any other quest story boss. Most everyone here is talking about immersion in an rpg. Don't put words in our mouths

This isn't some new thread, there are plenty who speak of "increased" rewards to match the "increased" difficulty in this thread and the many similar threads that pop up with the regularity of that demand the same exact thing. If your not that you, then I'm not talking to you and you have no right to internalize that you because it's not about you. But those yous do exist and you have no right to try to obfuscate my entry by conflating your desires with my message to others whom seek to increase their reward levels doing content that does not deserve them.

I dont care about your immersion, your play, you do what you want, I dont mind. But if you stay in overland content the base mobs have 31k health 9k armor and do a heavy attack with a 4 sec cool down... thats it. The bosses might have 128k health 15k armor and use three different attacks on a 7 sec cool down. And no matter what hp you given or where you put the armor they still have limited attacks on a cool down.

Don't be the folks that hide in content they've out grown wishing it would magically become valid again. You graduated from elementary school, go to high school now(dungeons) and work your way into college(trials). You can still pass by the old elementary school but I promise you the books are always gonna be the same.

I don't think it's a majority that want better rewards. Some have spoken of an incentive, but the underlying desire always goes back to immersion. So when I constantly see counter "arguments" claiming it's about the rewards, I think people are intentionally being daft. Multiple other threads have spoken on how the rewards is a non issue, yet the counter "argument" always defaults to us wanting better rewards, despite us telling you literally that it's not the case. There is nothing that drops from overland that is going to excite a veteran player. Not a flying fishin thing. We just don't want Molag Bal to hit like a wet noodle. That's....it. When I play games like Divinity Original Sin 2, or Skyrim, or Dragon Age Inquisition, no matter how good I get at the game, I am presented with challenges. That's usually how rpg's work. It's not too much to ask in an MMORPG as an optional thing

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Hmm.

The problem with creating difficult overland content is that the people that want it don't actually seem to want it. I say that based on the fact that you don't see these players regularly at the difficult overland content that already exists. Assuming there are a lot of you, I don't see a lot of you around doing the world bosses and harrowstorms.

If I had to guess, I'd say this happens because most people don't stand in one spot and kill one mob over and over again.

But like I said, it's just a guess.

I'm talking about the collective, not the individual.

If the people who claim they want hard overland content actually wanted it they would be all over the hard overland content that already exists. Obviously i t wouldn't be the same person standing there every time, but if you visited a harrowstorm or a world boss, this demographic who claims they want hard content would be doing the hard content. So why aren't they consistently and reliably there?

Where are they? What they want exists in the game already right now. Where are they? Considering they aren't doing the difficult overland content now, what makes anyone think they would consistently do the difficult overland content that gets added? I don't think they would. What I've observed doesn't support the conclusion that these players who claim they want this stuff would actually do the stuff, and neither does the history of the zone that was Craglorn.

...we already beat it all because there is so little actual challenging overland content you can blaze through it in a few hours if you're on the right spawn timers.

So what this tells me is that what you are really looking for is NEW content more than DIFFICULT content.

If the real mentality is "I want to beat this difficult content once then I'm not going to do it anymore" let's consider for a second what that would mean for the long-term accessibility of various overland zones in the game. Once the "I want difficult content" crowd finishes a zone, it becomes a ghost town and everyone else struggles to get anything done at all in that zone. This happened with Craglorn when it was a group zone, and it happens now with the difficult content that already exists in overland.

That's why the developers aren't giving you this, guys. Keeping older zones populated and active is a major priority in GaaS because nothing leaves a worse impression of your game than a huge open-world game that is empty of players. If entry-level content in particular is overly difficult, you get players washing out before they even get started.

As I recall, staff have mentioned they looked into something like a personal difficulty slider at one point. That's a far better idea to get behind than "just make it all more difficult" when that isn't going to be healthy for the game. While we wait for the developers to add a handicap toggle, we can do it ourselves, as others have already suggested.

You are half right, what I want is new content....to be more difficult. In my previous post I advocated for a slider because while I see the need for content to be welcoming to new and causal players, I don't think players that have the experience or put in the effort to be good should have to gimp themselves to enjoy the largest part of the game.

SilverBride

joseayalac wrote: »

Make it FUN please!

I love questing and I've been super satisfied with the storytelling of this game, but when it comes to combat in this kind of content, it just feels like a chore to spam my skills again and again just to kill some cardboard enemies.

I get that there's new players who can't even kill some of this bosses but you could make it scalable or introduce a vet overland or something.

This has been said countless times and is LOOOONG overdue!

It is fun just as it is. Making players struggle for everything isn't.

There used to be vet overland... it didn't work. That's why One Tamriel was introduced.

They are not going to reverse that no matter how many threads are started about it.

kargen27

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DukeCybran wrote: »

Try to withdraw your CP and to run without a set, or go to Craglorn or craft yourself a set of level 5 gear.

Gimping yourself is not the same as more difficult content unless you get a reward for it. I want to use the gear that took hours/days/weeks/months to collect. I am not withdrawing my CP every time Im doing a quest, then have to allocate them for a dungeon run and having to withdraw them again for doing a quest. Ive done Craglorn mostly solo but thats just one zone, the new quests are often not in Craglorn.

I would be fine with an item that equips in my costume slot that lets me take more damage, deal less damage while gaining more XP/loot/gold for example.

And every one of these threads always goes to the same place.

"I'm too powerful because I built myself specifically to be powerful, so you need to give me harder content that matches my elite skill level, and then give me good rewards for beating it so I can get even more power so I can set myself even further above the other noobs in zone!"

It really makes me wonder what the average DPS of players on the forums is versus what it is in game. If the average DPS in game were what it was on the forums, we'd never hear any comments about failed PUGs since people would be able to DPS anything down without effort.

I get wanting more out of the story. I'm one of those people who'd love to be able to solo dungeons for the stories. Give me back the quests, get rid of the 'you need two people' mechanics like the second Direfrost plate or the pins, and just let me see the dialogue. No rewards, no bonus XP, no gold, nothing. My reward would be finally getting to see the storyline. I get that this is probably one of the points of the Companions system. But Companions won't reset the dialogue for the quests I've already done.

Also remember they had adventure zones, and they failed since people said it was too hard. Yes, now we have the benefit of CP and power creep, but there's also a decent nerf to DPS coming up in the next patch. Besides, there are enough people who need help and nobody wants to go do it - I know so many people park their characters in Vivec/Alinor/Rimmen, but how many new players in those zones can actually find people to help with the WBs? Even though there are quests to get them, I very rarely see people taking on WBs in Vvardenfell or NElsweyr, or dealing with any of the dragons outside of the one by the wayshrine. As a result, new Lv. 25 players with white gear, no sets, and no consumables are getting one shot by these, not getting help, and then think that overland is too hard. Sure, we could have the 'veteran' instance of a zone, but then that still leaves all the noobs together so they can't complete anything unless they go to the vet when they're not ready.

Mostly there's just no incentive for the devs to do that - I doubt people would want to pay for overland versions of the same zones, and that would take as much work to redo all of the overland encounters as it would be to make a new chapter. People are already complaining "is that it?" with the antiquities, and now there are more complaints about companions and how that one feature isn't worth the cost of a chapter. How would people react if ZOS came out and said "hey, $60 and you get the same game, but all we did was buff Bittergreen the Guar to be on the level of Z'Maja!"

Nice story but you have to understand that giving players an option will change nothing for players who dont change the difficulty. Every argument comes back to the point that overland difficulty is not too easy for inexperienced players, which doesnt explain why couldnt be more challenging for experienced players. Similar to dungeons and trails for example.

In the first period of the game there was no difficulty option for dungeons and trails, they were simply leveled to match the party, either to the leader or lowest level group member I dont remember exactly. Eventually ZOS recognized that there is a difference in skill level which led to dungeons and trails getting an easier version with normal mode.

Now the experienced players ask for overland content to match their skill level and its not possible? Yes, there are plenty challenges if you look for them, you can solo WBs, dragons, harrowstorms or vet dungeons but that wont change the fact that new quest lines from DLCs are boring for experienced players who have been supporting ZOS for a long time.

Dungeons and trials were much easier to give levels of difficulty because they are instanced to the group. Overland is not. The solution that works for trials will not work for overland. Splitting overland zones into normal and vet could easily make those zones feel empty.