Overland is too easy!

kargen27

Raegwyr wrote: »

At least make normal/veteran mode applied to instanced quest areas. To incentive players to do vet mode, bosses can drop spell dmg/spell crit or weapon dmg/weapon crit pots instead of normal stam/mag ones.
Just something for a vet players, most f the changes and content is already baked for new players, vets need love too

This is where the idea always loses me. The incentive for harder overland content is the challenge. There doesn't need to be better rewards. In fact there shouldn't be better rewards. That would make people feel the need to play vet content when really they would be happier with the normal level.
Different instances isn't the way to go. Could leave a zone feeling empty. Best way would be to put food and potions in the game the lower instead of boost players stats. That way we keep the zones populated and if they introduced a variety of foods with different effects players could pick their level of difficulty without impacting other players.

icapital

The people who are disagreeing that the open world is too easy and making up excuses on how we should play the game to find a challenge are being extremely disingenuous.

No, we shouldn't have to completely cripple ourselves and literally alter the style of gameplay just to "make things more challenging". The problem here is that the open world is just flat out boring easy mode and it takes away from the immersion.

In WoW, when you go back to old content that you've outleveled, you steam roll through it. It's not meant to be immersive because its old content and that games model is to play in the latest expansions content.

ESO is supposedly the opposite of WoW and all content is relevant and scaled to you. Well, then why is it that you can steamroll through the open world the same way you can in WoW then?? Where's the continued relevance when the difficulty doesn't also scale with your increasing skill level??

Doesn't being able to faceroll your way through the open world defeat the entire purpose of level scaling? You want to keep all content relevant regardless of your level right? So make the skill requirement equally comparable...I shouldn't be face rolling through content in this game the same way I do in WoW where I out level zones sometimes by huge margins.

Additionally, yes there is harder content to consume but we're not talking about that content we're talking about the difficulty of the open world. It's just too easy. I can pull 3-4 mobs and they barely touch my HP bar, something is off and definitely not "working as intended".

The solution here is to either 1.) scale the open world difficulty as the player continues to level up (this means increasing damage AND HP on enemies or 2.) make an optional veteran difficulty open world for those that want it and aren't playing ESO just to "story mode" the game.

If you're going to hype up a quest boss, he/she better be difficult and challenging because currently, they're not and it takes away from the immersion.

kargen27

Eedat wrote: »

I've been dying for the option of a more difficult overworld. The storytelling loses all immersion when all these enemies that get hyped up fall over dead in seconds while posing absolutely zero threat. You fight an actual daedric prince in his own realm and he poses absolutely zero threat and is pitifully weak. How do people not find that immersion breaking? All the 'most powerful' enemies built up in storytelling have the same power level as a trashcan.

There should be an option to increase difficulty. There is optional difficulty on all endgame PvE content. Why not overworld? Even on a level 25 in level 8 training gear you can slaughter all overland content with zero difficulty

Inb4 'just blindfold yourself' etc

The difference in trials and overland is trials are instanced to one group. The entire group is effected by the settings. Can't do that with overland. Would leave some zones feeling empty.

Parasaurolophus

Simply increasing the difficulty for zones is boring. Mobs are generally of no value and mostly just get in the way. I didn't want to fight wolves for 10 seconds to farm resources or just go where I needed to.
Instead, I would prefer new adventure zones like Craglorn, but with veteran and normal versions.

coop500

To the people who whine about overland being too easy:

Swap servers, if you're on NA, go to EU (or vice versa), try building up a character when you have NOTHING. I feel like many of us forget what it was like starting out, but when I started playing on EU, it was a wake up call.

coop500

Or better yet, try doing it on a tank character, or even a healer (though it's not as bad)

icapital

coop500 wrote: »

To the people who whine about overland being too easy:

Swap servers, if you're on NA, go to EU (or vice versa), try building up a character when you have NOTHING. I feel like many of us forget what it was like starting out, but when I started playing on EU, it was a wake up call.

Once again being completely disingenuous with your reply. The whole point is that the GAME SHOULD SCALE WITH YOU.

That is the entire purpose and premise of LEVEL SCALING. So as you continue to progress in skill both numerical value AND gameplay ability, the open-world should SCALE THE DIFFICULTY TO YOU.

That is the entire purpose of level scaling.

AvalonRanger

Why Vvardenfell Overland Boss is impossibly hard? Is it not for solo mission?
Or usual bad game design of ZOS?

I killed "Nilthog's hollow" by solo. But it's a only successful overland boss for me.

AvalonRanger

Hey!! ZOS. Why don't you put the "recommendation level sign" or "need grouping sign of + mark"
for the overpowered World Boss and challenge mission.

<example>

"This mission for the above CP200 players"
"This mission needs tank build player for the grouping"
"This mission needs strong damage dealer as the partner"
"This mission needs healer"

or just say

"This mission isn't for solo."

You know, Elder Scroll fan people is "NOT" MMO or PVP zealot.

They "were" single action RPG game fan. They used to be the "Dragon Born".
"Class" or "MMO role" are meaningless for them. Because, Dragon Born has
all of power(lol). They (including me) just want to enjoy the game like Skyrim or Oblivion.

Trial score? PVP score? who care those things in the Elder Scroll world !?
Guild send me frequently those message to me, but I ignore those things always.
Guild is just merchant for me.

DO NOT make too much of grouping mission at the same area.
Otherwise, Elder Scroll fan can't get enough amount of experience point at the same area.

TheImperfect

Overland is literally perfect as it is right now in my opinion.

ThorianB

icapital wrote: »

ESO is supposedly the opposite of WoW and all content is relevant and scaled to you. Well, then why is it that you can steamroll through the open world the same way you can in WoW then?? Where's the continued relevance when the difficulty doesn't also scale with your increasing skill level??

NPCs don't scale to you in ESO. They are always the same level. You scale to the NPCs. When you get above CP 160 you are technically a higher level than the NPCs. 800 CP would be 5 times their level roughly. Since you are the one that scales, not the NPCs, you need to scale yourself down to their level.

It is one of the flaws of this system. To be fair they did start making some aspect of new zones harder. Harrowstorms are harder than dragons which are harder than geysers which are harder than dolmens. World bosses also get harder. Newer public dungeons are harder. Newer delves are a little harder. There are more elites in newer zones.

I die sometimes because of desyncs and not being able to respond properly to threats. I wonder if this is the games vet mode. Maybe it will be added as a feature like using your saddle as a treadmill was.

renne

newtinmpls wrote: »

A while ago someone was talking about doing dolmens with a group of "Naked Nords" and while I don't care for running around naked. But there are a lot of bits of "clothing" in game, and I also like to play with an addon that lets me change garb.
So now most of my chracters have a "street clothing only" (i.e. no armor) build (still have weapons tho) for added layers of 'challenge' and that's turning out to be more fun than I thought it would be.

Me and a couple of friends did naked dungeons once, where you were allowed to use your skills and wear a monster set, but no armour or jewellery or weapons. It was hilarious fun.

We also duel with zero gear and weapons and you're only allowed to punch.

It's not that hard to make your own fun with the existing content.

ParaViking

There is casual, and then there is so ridiculously easy in is a joke. There is so much potentially good content this game would be much better off with a "Hard Mode" for overland. Maybe people don't like grouping running dungeons. What does it really hurt?.. If you want to farm, and obliterate everything around you stay in a normal mode... If you want to challenge yourself go to a hard or veteran mode...

I would personally get lost in a Veteran/Hard Mode, and have a blast just tooling around. No more people bugging about how much DPS you are pulling, or are you waring the right gear... OMG! No grinding for the next set. Just a chalenge to complete at my own pace...

This game could be so much fun!

Massacre_Wurm

coop500 wrote: »

To the people who whine about overland being too easy:

Swap servers, if you're on NA, go to EU (or vice versa), try building up a character when you have NOTHING. I feel like many of us forget what it was like starting out, but when I started playing on EU, it was a wake up call.

Yep. I died quite a few times fighting quest bosses ( like Estre ) around lvl 30 on a first character without any cp and crafted gear. Deleted my nightblade and created templar. Thats how "easy" it was.

Also I dont want simple traveling from A to B becoming boring mindless slog like in korean mmos with bunch of mobs with useless loot everywhere.

WiseSky

Ahh yes just like clockwork.

Make something for me....

Cause I too good thread.

Have you tried

or

Netheniel

I created a new character recently and only geared him once with lvl 10 training gear. I used that gear and the same spammy skills all the way up to level 35 and was dungeon crawling with ease. I didn't even think about assigning champion points because everything dies so quickly, especially when I unlocked AOE abilities like Impulse.

However, the real difficulty is skill lag. Some fights like Magdelena's Haunt oddly lag at points. All I can do is sit there and watch my health drop to 0 and beg the game to trigger my abilities.

With all that said though, there's nothing ZoS can realistically do to increase challenge. Increasing health, adding numbers, and harder hitting enemies is not challenge. What you're really looking for is AI with tactics. AI that stays out of sight, ambushes you, attacks from multiple sides, retreats to recover while others jump in to distract you, and each of them must come with an assortment of random mechanics to prevent you from memorizing their tactics. Part of those tactics also need better environments. More intractable items and traps (acidic/explosive/greasy barrels that explode), more confinement that restricts your freedom of movement and provides cover for the AI, an actual cover system where projectiles don't magically fly through walls, etc. Realistically, it's far too late in ESO's production to implement that. So ya just have to accept what we got and move on with life

tenryuta

CP5 wrote: »

That's half of the problem, overland is so easy it never ask the player to learn to do anything. Potions? Who needs them. Bashing mobs? What now? Applying dots? Why when spamming this one skill works wonders. The lack of any content for newer players to practice in, to challenge them in without breaking their teeth in is part of the reason it is hard for players to go from overland content to anything else. Challenge invites people to try new things and to learn, and overland offers none of that.

The second point is I can't bring myself to do any overland quest when I know full well the 'big bad' that's been built up over the whole questline requires me to make myself a quadruple amputee to even pose a threat. The big bad vampire at the end of the Rivenspire quest chain got two tapped by me back before I was comfortable even touching vet dungeons, but now that I know how to play it doesn't matter how much I gimp myself, overland mobs are a hollow waste of time and rob quest from any dramatic stakes they could have had. Think of it like watching a show with a superpowered main character who instantly solves any problems, unless it's supported by something else that show would get boring fast, and anyone who knows how to play the game and regularly runs challenging content, eso's overland is just that.

unless your alchemist you wont know about them anyway, or accidentally find them in a guild store and think, "so melt all my money to make normal dungeon a cake walk.*gets one shot by boss anyway<_<
if youre not a pro-meta-anim-cancel-bot who can go from 1-cp160 in an hour on a fresh account, youll learn block and bash benefits, as most players will read the tip that says block yellow charge, bash red, dodge telegraph.
dots vs spammables:unless your super duper loaded in regen/pots/max res, spamming wont kill much(20k and vamp claw maybe, cant remember all single target skills that do more damage with so little requirement), unless they are 50-160, they havent tried everything out... or higher since they may have ignored main story and somehow didnt fight alot of FG xp targets, or found enough books to try fire rune and comet.

second point:then go play gw2:heart of thorn, it was never nerfed, i even tried it last year for some forgettable reason

Athan1

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And every one of these threads always goes to the same place.

"I'm too powerful because I built myself specifically to be powerful, so you need to give me harder content that matches my elite skill level, and then give me good rewards for beating it so I can get even more power so I can set myself even further above the other noobs in zone!"

It really makes me wonder what the average DPS of players on the forums is versus what it is in game. If the average DPS in game were what it was on the forums, we'd never hear any comments about failed PUGs since people would be able to DPS anything down without effort.

I get wanting more out of the story. I'm one of those people who'd love to be able to solo dungeons for the stories. Give me back the quests, get rid of the 'you need two people' mechanics like the second Direfrost plate or the pins, and just let me see the dialogue. No rewards, no bonus XP, no gold, nothing. My reward would be finally getting to see the storyline. I get that this is probably one of the points of the Companions system. But Companions won't reset the dialogue for the quests I've already done.

Also remember they had adventure zones, and they failed since people said it was too hard. Yes, now we have the benefit of CP and power creep, but there's also a decent nerf to DPS coming up in the next patch. Besides, there are enough people who need help and nobody wants to go do it - I know so many people park their characters in Vivec/Alinor/Rimmen, but how many new players in those zones can actually find people to help with the WBs? Even though there are quests to get them, I very rarely see people taking on WBs in Vvardenfell or NElsweyr, or dealing with any of the dragons outside of the one by the wayshrine. As a result, new Lv. 25 players with white gear, no sets, and no consumables are getting one shot by these, not getting help, and then think that overland is too hard. Sure, we could have the 'veteran' instance of a zone, but then that still leaves all the noobs together so they can't complete anything unless they go to the vet when they're not ready.

Mostly there's just no incentive for the devs to do that - I doubt people would want to pay for overland versions of the same zones, and that would take as much work to redo all of the overland encounters as it would be to make a new chapter. People are already complaining "is that it?" with the antiquities, and now there are more complaints about companions and how that one feature isn't worth the cost of a chapter. How would people react if ZOS came out and said "hey, $60 and you get the same game, but all we did was buff Bittergreen the Guar to be on the level of Z'Maja!"

Best comment I've read in a while, I agree with everything said in here. Most players have forgotten, but at the beginning even mudcrabs can give you trouble.

Sylvermynx

Eh, at least mudcrabs (and horkers!) aren't hostile in this game....

rpa

Problem with challenging overland is it would also be tedious. Imagine if your cp capped veteran raider would have to be careful to not pull more than one group of mudcrabs at same time, take a troll next to a chest as a serious fight and run away from accidentally aggroed wispmother. Challenge is fun only in limited doses.

xericdx

As discussed in (many) other threads. No need to hurt anyone to improve a bit.

- Add a memento/set/food that reduces your stats(damage taking in particular, to avoid simple damage sponges)
- Give a small benefit, maybe even just XP, to account for the extra time. Something small so that people do not feel like it's the best way to do it, just a partial compensation for the extra time
- Give some fluff to allow for a minimum immersion (Shego wanting to give us extra fun, whatever)

Not solving all core issues such as bland mechanics but those are impossible to solve without heavy resource investment from ZOS and making some of us unhappy. But al least: 1) no instances and no division of community, 2) no impact on players who do not want that, 3) a bit less boredom and lack of immersion for those who still like to enjoying making builds and wearing hard-gained sets without dying for boredom.

Luckylancer

tenryuta wrote: »

then solo everything in craglorn or the horrors in imperial city

You look uninformed. We buy a big zone every year and developement time of devs are spent on one small zone that we pay with ESO+.

Scardan

joseayalac wrote: »

Make it FUN please!

It is FUN!

As it is.

Kwoung

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

That said, if something like an optional difficulty slider that debuffs your character was available, I wouldn't use it but appreciate that many might like to.

That is the best idea ever to stop these pointless make it harder threads. Wanna be gimp and have a challenge, gimp yourself, instant hard mode!

Why should the game change when there are already so many options for someone to de-power themselves. Heck, go harvest naked in Craglorn and punch the mobs to death that get in your way, there's your challenge. Being as there are like as many levels of player skill in this game as there are players, how could they possibly balance a vet overland? Honestly, I think people keep asking for this because they just want empty zones to harvest and farm chests in by themselves, why else would you be doing anything in overland content other than riding from point A to B?

Scardan

Kwoung wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

That said, if something like an optional difficulty slider that debuffs your character was available, I wouldn't use it but appreciate that many might like to.

That is the best idea ever to stop these pointless make it harder threads. Wanna be gimp and have a challenge, gimp yourself, instant hard mode!

Why should the game change when there are already so many options for someone to de-power themselves. Heck, go harvest naked in Craglorn and punch the mobs to death that get in your way, there's your challenge. Being as there are like as many levels of player skill in this game as there are players, how could they possibly balance a vet overland? Honestly, I think people keep asking for this because they just want empty zones to harvest and farm chests in by themselves, why else would you be doing anything in overland content other than riding from point A to B?

Questing.

tplink3r1

It's your fault if the game is too easy bro, just remove all your equipment, only use light attacks, get stuck at level one and tie both your hands together if you want some challenge. If the game is still easy after that, then try playing the game while dancing the macarena.
Do i need to say that's sarcasm?
Players should not be forced to hinder themselves and remove their character's progression if they want some challenge.

Scardan

tplink3r1 wrote: »

It's your fault if the game is too easy bro, just remove all your equipment, only use light attacks, get stuck at level one and tie both your hands together if you want some challenge. If the game is still easy after that, then try playing the game while dancing the macarena.
Do i need to say that's sarcasm?
Players should not be forced to hinder themselves and remove their character's progression if they want some challenge.

Players should search for challenge in specially made challenging instances, not in content, which is supposed to be newb friendly and help to gear up before doing challenging stuff. Not mentioning material nodes being "guarded" by mobs.

tplink3r1

Scardan wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

It's your fault if the game is too easy bro, just remove all your equipment, only use light attacks, get stuck at level one and tie both your hands together if you want some challenge. If the game is still easy after that, then try playing the game while dancing the macarena.
Do i need to say that's sarcasm?
Players should not be forced to hinder themselves and remove their character's progression if they want some challenge.

Players should search for challenge in specially made challenging instances, not in content, which is supposed to be newb friendly and help to gear up before doing challenging stuff. Not mentioning material nodes being "guarded" by mobs.

There's no dichotomy between the game being hard and newb friendly at the same time, and this is where most people seem to fail when they complain about those who want a harder game

tplink3r1

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

It's your fault if the game is too easy bro, just remove all your equipment, only use light attacks, get stuck at level one and tie both your hands together if you want some challenge. If the game is still easy after that, then try playing the game while dancing the macarena.
Do i need to say that's sarcasm?
Players should not be forced to hinder themselves and remove their character's progression if they want some challenge.

If you want " some challenge " go to VCR+3 or top tier pvp and stop whining about overland.

No, we want some challenge in the overland content.

tplink3r1

I seriously don't get why so many people seem to get offended and feel personally attacked when someone asks for a difficulty slider.