Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

React

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

VirtuousD

@ZOS_GinaBruno will master weapons still work? As they grant flat stats to certain abilities, or is thae fact it's limited to an ability count as a condition?

Soul_Demon

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

I am well aware of who did the code, staff changouts and was here beta testing it all the way to the current product they have now. You may not know historically the work players did on the PTS went for years being ignored as more and more bugs they found over there on their own time were still ported over to the main server with patch after patch. Testing was exhaustive and write-ups were nearly identical to what you would see at any meeting, detailed and concise. But they went ignored. Outright.

They are now doing testing on live as years of ignoring that product and work led to loss of confidence of the players who were doing much of it for them for free......So, of course you may theorize on the games current state and are perfectly entitled to your opinion on how and why we ended up here---and I appreciate the rundown in case I was unaware- but we fundamentally disagree at how they ended up doing testing on the live servers.

In my mind they did not learn from the lack of respect given to the players on PTS over those years and this is simply them doing more of the same to those who are still left. I think its terrible miscalculation on their part as to how long people will pay for a product that doesn't function well and continue to also pay them for research and development of that product---for free. Its forced beta testing in a 7 year old game.

Gilvoth

482 / 500 armor sets in eso are proc sets.
am i wrong?
if that is the case then please make entire new sets for us, sets that work for maybe only pve and only for pvp?
would cause less lagg and be better for us all.
please also make them craftable.

React

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

I am well aware of who did the code, staff changouts and was here beta testing it all the way to the current product they have now. You may not know historically the work players did on the PTS went for years being ignored as more and more bugs they found over there on their own time were still ported over to the main server with patch after patch. Testing was exhaustive and write-ups were nearly identical to what you would see at any meeting, detailed and concise. But they went ignored. Outright.

They are now doing testing on live as years of ignoring that product and work led to loss of confidence of the players who were doing much of it for them for free......So, of course you may theorize on the games current state and are perfectly entitled to your opinion on how and why we ended up here---and I appreciate the rundown in case I was unaware- but we fundamentally disagree at how they ended up doing testing on the live servers.

In my mind they did not learn from the lack of respect given to the players on PTS over those years and this is simply them doing more of the same to those who are still left. I think its terrible miscalculation on their part as to how long people will pay for a product that doesn't function well and continue to also pay them for research and development of that product---for free. Its forced beta testing in a 7 year old game.

We actually agree on almost everything you just mentioned. I'm not one to white knight or defend ZOS in any regard, ever. I've been apart of pts's, had my feedback ignored, had bugs that I did detailed write ups on go live, etc. I stopped playing the game entirely months back after it became clear they could not improve the performance with the attempts they had planned.

The thing that seems to be misunderstood is that their business model of ignoring pvp and focusing on cosmetics and DLCS is sustainable, because the vast majority of players arent affected by the terrible performance in cyrodiil and the numerous combat bugs. They could get away with doing that for the next three years until the game hits the decade mark, from what we've seen so far. The fact that they're doing this test, which is fundamentally going to *** off the casual players they've spent years pandering to, is the first sign to me that they're making an effort to improve pvp.

I'm ready to have my hopes crushed, as has been the norm every patch for years. But I'm still looking forward to this test, and I'm not faulting them for doing it on the live server.

WrathOfInnos

Will Talfyg’s work? It gives a flat value of stats, and the Fire weakness isn’t something that’s checked when you cast abilities (I would hope).

Also can we be sure that none of these sets will end up broken in PVE during this test? That is certainly a long list of disabled sets if something goes wrong with the PVE/PVP separation.

Theignson

I've already been testing my no-proc build on my Stam Warden. I know a lot of players have said they are looking forward to playing stat based only builds.

However, I think it's going to be boring.

The health and resists and regen will be high and I'll bet a lot of people will be using the 9-10 available stam sets to make tanky characters that will be harder to kill than with Monster sets, Mythic items, arena weapons and all the other sets.

Ball groups will still be doing their usual thing with 12 rapid regens, 12 proxi dets, 12 ultis. I'll bet their lag stun exploit will still work despite no procs

Soul_Demon

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

I am well aware of who did the code, staff changouts and was here beta testing it all the way to the current product they have now. You may not know historically the work players did on the PTS went for years being ignored as more and more bugs they found over there on their own time were still ported over to the main server with patch after patch. Testing was exhaustive and write-ups were nearly identical to what you would see at any meeting, detailed and concise. But they went ignored. Outright.

They are now doing testing on live as years of ignoring that product and work led to loss of confidence of the players who were doing much of it for them for free......So, of course you may theorize on the games current state and are perfectly entitled to your opinion on how and why we ended up here---and I appreciate the rundown in case I was unaware- but we fundamentally disagree at how they ended up doing testing on the live servers.

In my mind they did not learn from the lack of respect given to the players on PTS over those years and this is simply them doing more of the same to those who are still left. I think its terrible miscalculation on their part as to how long people will pay for a product that doesn't function well and continue to also pay them for research and development of that product---for free. Its forced beta testing in a 7 year old game.

We actually agree on almost everything you just mentioned. I'm not one to white knight or defend ZOS in any regard, ever. I've been apart of pts's, had my feedback ignored, had bugs that I did detailed write ups on go live, etc. I stopped playing the game entirely months back after it became clear they could not improve the performance with the attempts they had planned.

The thing that seems to be misunderstood is that their business model of ignoring pvp and focusing on cosmetics and DLCS is sustainable, because the vast majority of players arent affected by the terrible performance in cyrodiil and the numerous combat bugs. They could get away with doing that for the next three years until the game hits the decade mark, from what we've seen so far. The fact that they're doing this test, which is fundamentally going to *** off the casual players they've spent years pandering to, is the first sign to me that they're making an effort to improve pvp.

I'm ready to have my hopes crushed, as has been the norm every patch for years. But I'm still looking forward to this test, and I'm not faulting them for doing it on the live server.

The real problem with the business model is they created the model they currently use.

What I mean by that is they ignored the PvP even though they sold the game based on the concept of having massive battles with 500 or more players in each fight----when Bethesda went out the door they took the people who best understood where the game was designed to go with them and Zenimax came in doing what they always did in past games----nickel and dime the players to death while dry humping them for every last penny. Many called this in forums as Zeni came in with their track record up for all to see what they would likely do. As they destroyed the play they sold the game on (PvP massive battles as endgame) they got rid of the money that group of players spent- so when they later looked at money it showed it was mostly new sales and PvE content that would sustain them......no one could claim differently due to them making decisions that crippled or killed the idea of this being a competitive game they made early on after taking over game. They created this right out of the gate with the choices they made.

Fact is that if we retained the players who were in early years of game who were in PvP the longevity and flow of cash could have been massive as they attracted other games communities over to the ...what, 8-10 PvP servers that were once active here. Right now think of all the games that came before ESO and during---all of those players were profits and sales coming in if the game were competitive. But the early choices Zeni made changed that possible market and it dried up to almost non existent today. They had a window when they bought out Bethesda---

ealdwin

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Will Talfyg’s work? It gives a flat value of stats, and the Fire weakness isn’t something that’s checked when you cast abilities (I would hope).

Also can we be sure that none of these sets will end up broken in PVE during this test? That is certainly a long list of disabled sets if something goes wrong with the PVE/PVP separation.

If any part of the set disqualifies it, it is the increased damage from Fighter's Guild abilities, as that required another check on the incoming damage. Since it's not in the list and has that conditional component, it looks like it will be disabled.

Reverb

caperb wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno
we have to now make and/or farm entire new sets, and gold them out, that will cost around 1 million gold to do that, just for a 3 week test. PLEASE return that 1 Million Gold to us for this test.

I don't think you have to gold them out, but some of the best remaining sets are crafted and even purple jewelry isn't cheap

that is just not true at all.
just about everyone is going to max out and Gold all their new jewelry and armor sets for pvp.
you specificly and at most 5 people "wont" Gold out thier jewelry and weapons and armors but the rest of us will and i am asking we get compensation for that which could go over 2 Million Gold

that is just not true at all.
Nobody will spend 2 million gold for 2-3 weeks of testing.
Of course golding out weapons is the bare minimum, but most people still have all of these sets in gold quality since they once were quite good.

What the hell else am I going to do with my gold?

Sanctum74

Reverb wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno
we have to now make and/or farm entire new sets, and gold them out, that will cost around 1 million gold to do that, just for a 3 week test. PLEASE return that 1 Million Gold to us for this test.

I don't think you have to gold them out, but some of the best remaining sets are crafted and even purple jewelry isn't cheap

that is just not true at all.
just about everyone is going to max out and Gold all their new jewelry and armor sets for pvp.
you specificly and at most 5 people "wont" Gold out thier jewelry and weapons and armors but the rest of us will and i am asking we get compensation for that which could go over 2 Million Gold

that is just not true at all.
Nobody will spend 2 million gold for 2-3 weeks of testing.
Of course golding out weapons is the bare minimum, but most people still have all of these sets in gold quality since they once were quite good.

What the hell else am I going to do with my gold?

Buy sweet rolls

Reverb

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Would you please check if for 5-set pieces that have a flat value AND a proc, will the flat value portion (like the pen on VD, or regen on jailbreaker) be active with the proc disabled, or will the whole 5-set bonus (including the flat value) be disabled?

Thanks!

The whole 5th bonus including the flat value will be disabled (page 6)

Hmm. I don’t love that. It seems the flat value of the Spell Pen on the 5 piece should still apply, even when the proc component is disabled.

NordJitsu

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

I am well aware of who did the code, staff changouts and was here beta testing it all the way to the current product they have now. You may not know historically the work players did on the PTS went for years being ignored as more and more bugs they found over there on their own time were still ported over to the main server with patch after patch. Testing was exhaustive and write-ups were nearly identical to what you would see at any meeting, detailed and concise. But they went ignored. Outright.

They are now doing testing on live as years of ignoring that product and work led to loss of confidence of the players who were doing much of it for them for free......So, of course you may theorize on the games current state and are perfectly entitled to your opinion on how and why we ended up here---and I appreciate the rundown in case I was unaware- but we fundamentally disagree at how they ended up doing testing on the live servers.

In my mind they did not learn from the lack of respect given to the players on PTS over those years and this is simply them doing more of the same to those who are still left. I think its terrible miscalculation on their part as to how long people will pay for a product that doesn't function well and continue to also pay them for research and development of that product---for free. Its forced beta testing in a 7 year old game.

Um, they are also human and this is a massive and impressive game with more moving parts than any single person can keep track off.

I’ve also been here since early beta (Sept 2013, I think the 5th?) and was a Psijic Order closed Beta tester. I even felt some of the frustrations you’re expressing about bugs reported making it into the game or feedback (seemingly) ignored (tho sometimes it came back later). But this game has kept me playing fairly regularly for years, and you too apparently, because it’s awesome.

And this is perhaps the best it’s been overall in terms of balance, content, and variety of ways to play and enjoy yourself.

This test seems like a reasonable way to gain more data about a problem that’s been plaguing the live servers. They’re trying to fix it. So give them a break.

Dr_Ganknstein

No swamp raider?

merevie

After Mayhem I was bored...what next..then we have this wonderful 3 weeks of chasing 90% of the player proc meta around trees and double ap. Heaven. And...I guess those who care can finally sort out who actually has good skills :P Going to be good fights.

Bucky_13

Reverb wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno
we have to now make and/or farm entire new sets, and gold them out, that will cost around 1 million gold to do that, just for a 3 week test. PLEASE return that 1 Million Gold to us for this test.

I don't think you have to gold them out, but some of the best remaining sets are crafted and even purple jewelry isn't cheap

that is just not true at all.
just about everyone is going to max out and Gold all their new jewelry and armor sets for pvp.
you specificly and at most 5 people "wont" Gold out thier jewelry and weapons and armors but the rest of us will and i am asking we get compensation for that which could go over 2 Million Gold

that is just not true at all.
Nobody will spend 2 million gold for 2-3 weeks of testing.
Of course golding out weapons is the bare minimum, but most people still have all of these sets in gold quality since they once were quite good.

What the hell else am I going to do with my gold?

Try housing, it's an amazing way to burn through millions of gold without even realizing it.

LtClungeX

dcmgti wrote: »

I still feel like population will be low for this test, even with double AP. I know some players will have these sets stowed away in a coffer but I think most will not. Not to mention the prices on these sets are already going up at a quick rate, the amount of transmutes you'll have to spend even if you have the sets collected and the amount of time you'll have to spend farming dungeons only to rely on rng.

Looks like IC will be a busy place again.

spriggans/spinners plus shackle breaker, not really hard most have golded spriggans and spinners weapons' don't they?

LtClungeX

Liam12548 wrote: »

I'm actually so excited for this test. I had basically signed off on ESO as reaching a state where there was no chance it could ever improve, balance or performance wise. But this is the first thing I've seen in the past 3 years that actually gives me hope, and I'll be playing during it.

From someone with thousands of hours invested into pvp, my experience tells me that stat based gameplay is the best choice for the game moving forward. Many people look back at the days when the game revolved around stats as some of the best in it's history, and in all of the "serious" pvp communities this sentiment is pretty widely shared.

When stats determine the effectiveness of your build, you are required to actually learn the combat system, the effects of every class/ability/status effect, the potential of your different set options, etc. With this in mind, pvp not only becomes more balanced, but it becomes a skill based environment where you are rewarded for your TIME INVESTMENT instead of your SET CHOICES.

It's impossible to survive outnumbered right now because players who do not care about learning the combat system can just equip two sets that will out DPS a full damage spec with little to no effort. You get lingering proc sets on you from multiple people doing nothing but light attacking that will literally out dps ALL of your healing/warding, even when you are line of sighting these players. There is no counterplay at all to these sets. Even running the other end of broken builds by using ridiculously high health recovery sets in combination with endless mist form, something that a year ago would have been unkillable with no damage at all, you are completley unable to survive just a few people mindlessly applying procs to you.

I'm all for "play how you want", but when it comes to PVP you have to understand that while sets exist that can do the same dps with a fraction of the effort as a skilled player using stat based damage sets, people will never try to learn the combat and the game will revolve solely around sets forever.

If this test results in a significant performance increase, I truly hope zenimax will do the right thing and choose to keep it as a permanent change moving forward. You will receive a huge vocal outcry against it here on the forums, because so many players here are strictly casual and benefit HUGELY from these sets. But I guarantee you will see the return of serious pvp players who actually care about the combat aspect of pvp, and they will be ecstatic to finally enjoy a stat based pvp experience.

I just wish we had patch 1.5 style gap closers again they were so good! keep leaping was awesome too!!

LtClungeX

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I will happily run on the hamster wheel 3 weeks of old school pvp is my dream!!

Infact I'd pay them to keep it like this and just add a few more sets for diversity and I'm happy haha

Ahk1lleez

I believe that this is the right test to perform, but also think one week is a little too short of notice.

My suggestion would be if you're going to stick with starting the test on the 15th to put all listed non-craftable jewelry sets on the golden vendor for this weekends sale. After all, these tests are being performed solely by those who invest most if not all of their time in pvp. It makes more sense to allow them to purchase these sets with the AP they already have rather than be forced to farm it in PVE. I mean, I have no problem farming the sets I'll use so I can go either way. I think your player base would greatly appreciate it though.

jaws343

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

I believe that this is the right test to perform, but also think one week is a little too short of notice.

My suggestion would be if you're going to stick with starting the test on the 15th to put all listed non-craftable jewelry sets on the golden vendor for this weekends sale. After all, these tests are being performed solely by those who invest most if not all of their time in pvp. It makes more sense to allow them to purchase these sets with the AP they already have rather than be forced to farm it in PVE. I mean, I have no problem farming the sets I'll use so I can go either way. I think your player base would greatly appreciate it though.

You can buy the boxes for zone sets with AP at the alliance bases.

Ahk1lleez

jaws343 wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

I believe that this is the right test to perform, but also think one week is a little too short of notice.

My suggestion would be if you're going to stick with starting the test on the 15th to put all listed non-craftable jewelry sets on the golden vendor for this weekends sale. After all, these tests are being performed solely by those who invest most if not all of their time in pvp. It makes more sense to allow them to purchase these sets with the AP they already have rather than be forced to farm it in PVE. I mean, I have no problem farming the sets I'll use so I can go either way. I think your player base would greatly appreciate it though.

You can buy the boxes for zone sets with AP at the alliance bases.

For overland sets this is true. For dungeon sets like Draugr Hulk it is not.

Soul_Demon

NordJitsu wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Just FYI, I'll be cancelling my subscription from here on out. I really don't like paying for a game that is beta testing on a live server. Happy to test on the PTS, but I'm having a hard time being okay with this given the fact that even the healers have lost every healing set available to them.

Why 3 weeks? You can find out in one week or less what you need to know. Three weeks is just overkill.

Did you know that wearing sets which increase your max magicka, spell damage, and spell critical also increase the effectiveness of your heals?

Its a rather valid point he makes---Speaking from a purely business perspective its pure genius to convince a group of 'customers' to pay you to do research and development of a product they already sold you. Its truly amazing to me as I look at how they have functioned over the years that right now they basically have each player complaining not about them, but about each other playing in groups----that they designed the game for- and blaming each other rather than them for the problems.

Then they go on to take your money for forced 'research and development' of the product that isnt working properly you already paid for. Its genius and should be used as model for all professional business to emulate. Pure unadulterated profits with the paying customer paying for bad products and also funding the improvement of said product to be functional and doing so without being paid for their testing time

---

Its beautiful really, and speaks to how slow people are today.

I mean, MMO's historically offer test servers for players to voluntarily participate in. Eso does this as well. The problem with the performance issue is that potential fixes require a "live server" volume of players to actually get accurate test results for. Thus, their only choice is to perform these tests on the live servers.

I wouldn't call it a "genius" ploy by some shady development studio preying on unaware customers. In fact, "genius" is the last word I'd use to describe the developers at ZOS. It is legitimately their only option at this point.

A lot of people don't know this, but the combat system for ESO wasn't created by the current developers at ZOS - it was created by a different development studio under contract prior to the release of the game, at which point ZOS took over all future development and maintenance. It has become very apparent over the past 3 or 4 years that the developers at ZOS are wayyyy out of their depth with this code, because the issues have gotten progressively worse every patch, and the two patches that were touted as the "performance" patches for OVER A YEAR actually made performance the worst it has been in history.

I applaud the fact that they're actually trying something as major as this. Not only is it a massive shakeup to the balance, but it would require a HUGE amount of set reworking on their end if they want to implement it permanently next patch. This is the first genuine display of an interest in fixing PVP performance I have seen from them in 3 years, and I'm eager to see what the outcome is.

I am well aware of who did the code, staff changouts and was here beta testing it all the way to the current product they have now. You may not know historically the work players did on the PTS went for years being ignored as more and more bugs they found over there on their own time were still ported over to the main server with patch after patch. Testing was exhaustive and write-ups were nearly identical to what you would see at any meeting, detailed and concise. But they went ignored. Outright.

They are now doing testing on live as years of ignoring that product and work led to loss of confidence of the players who were doing much of it for them for free......So, of course you may theorize on the games current state and are perfectly entitled to your opinion on how and why we ended up here---and I appreciate the rundown in case I was unaware- but we fundamentally disagree at how they ended up doing testing on the live servers.

In my mind they did not learn from the lack of respect given to the players on PTS over those years and this is simply them doing more of the same to those who are still left. I think its terrible miscalculation on their part as to how long people will pay for a product that doesn't function well and continue to also pay them for research and development of that product---for free. Its forced beta testing in a 7 year old game.

Um, they are also human and this is a massive and impressive game with more moving parts than any single person can keep track off.

I’ve also been here since early beta (Sept 2013, I think the 5th?) and was a Psijic Order closed Beta tester. I even felt some of the frustrations you’re expressing about bugs reported making it into the game or feedback (seemingly) ignored (tho sometimes it came back later). But this game has kept me playing fairly regularly for years, and you too apparently, because it’s awesome.

And this is perhaps the best it’s been overall in terms of balance, content, and variety of ways to play and enjoy yourself.

This test seems like a reasonable way to gain more data about a problem that’s been plaguing the live servers. They’re trying to fix it. So give them a break.

I understand you may see things differently and good for you to come into the forums and stand up for the people who work at ZOS you feel are being treated unfairly. I noticed the sig leads to description saying guild you are running has 155 members and was a PvP primarily guild but 'has changed' according to the description page.

I take this to mean over the years something changed since beta that caused you to run only one time a week in cyro and primarily now do "All types of PvE groups. From pledges to trials, to just helping each other with quests and world content, GHH members love to group. Ask in chat and you'll find ready participants. As the community grows again, we'd like to participate competitively in progressive content." Do you think its possible that your perspective is colorized and based more in PvE content and function than PvP? The reason I ask is I only PvP and have done only PvP since beta----that is all I have ever done or do to this day. So you see I know my views are skewed because I simply do not do PvE at all. And I believe if all you see is the product pushed over on PvP in this game there is no way a person can come to the conclusion it is a focus of the game or that there is much balanced thought going into decisions being made.....if there are attempts at that, they failed and the makeup of the teams they use for this need to be restructured to people who are in cyro on a daily basis---I haven't seen a "Z" symbol on anyone in cyro for more than 5 years now.....not one.

As far as as your opinions, I would never tell you they are wrong as they are your own if you think the game "this is perhaps the best it’s been overall in terms of balance, content, and variety of ways to play and enjoy yourself." But as for me and the players I play with daily in cyro.......not one of us doesn't crash one time per hour now, pick up perma slow bug at least one time per hour, need to reload ui every 30 min to keep memory leaks at bay or become stuck in combat for 20 or more minutes randomly across the map unable to mount or load siege, change gear ect. When we group in the newly improved 12 man groups, at all contested spots on map (not just keeps, all fights over 12 players and sometimes with ONLY 12 players) about a full third of us crash instantly, so we really arrive to big fights with no more than about 3/4 of our team on a good day......and the constant complaints of the artificially throttled skills flow in our chat since all of us have played since the beginning and see the 'throttle' they instituted after the last round of testing on some skills being delayed by the system and not the player.

For you.....this kind of play may be acceptable as you can just go over to PvE and have a good time. For me, that is not what I do nor is it fun for me in any way to go out and play scripted mobs elsewhere......so most of us log out and go play other games. Maybe you think that kind of result is acceptable......and that is ok. For me its not acceptable.

Farbtreu

I am very happy about this changes ..
3 weeks the game will be skill based and not build based.
all the loosers with proc sets will kiss the ground and wake up in a different reality .
i dont have any problem with stat-procs but the proc that deal dmg for u, kick the game far away from any balance.
no magicka vateshran , zaan and crimson kids . 3 weeks in heaven )))

Sleevez340

So if "driven by an ability" is true this list is missing many sets. This test is for pvp performance, in a pvp zone, for pvp players. I guarantee you will have a successful test. Cyrodiil performance will increase because of numbers. Less players will be in cyrodiil. However I've made a list of sets. This is a quick glance at ones that fit your category but we're somehow overlooked. We as avid pvp's require clarity. Many of us play this game as our primary resource for entertainment and have invested years of time, thousands of dollars. So we would like to know what we're getting ourselves into here.

The list:

Jailbreaker
Crusader
Night mothers embrace
Shield of the valiant
Toothrow
Medusa
Footman
Order of diagna
Vampire cloak
Battlefield acrobat
Alteration mastery
Healers habbit
Shadow dancers
Akaviri dragonguard
Black rose

Most of these sets are just flat buffs, the difference is they don't buff hp, mag or stam. On top of the large scale of change to armor in general you're removing 80% of build diversity for a month. I'm not sure you realize full how drastically people's interest can vary in 1 month. There is potential to lose so many players over this test. At least many pvp/cyrodiil players.

Please clarify. That list seems remarkably small to enjoy much pvp for 3 weeks.

Sanctum74

@Sleevez340 all the sets you listed are either procs, have server checks, or have named buffs which means they will not work.

Sleevez340

None of these sets have procs, yes some have buffs. But that wasn't stated. And for instance alteration mastery and battlefield acrobat. Flat reduction. That's considered a check?

Who actually wants to run around cyrodiil with 15 different sets available in the game?

jaws343

Sleevez340 wrote: »

None of these sets have procs, yes some have buffs. But that wasn't stated. And for instance alteration mastery and battlefield acrobat. Flat reduction. That's considered a check?

Who actually wants to run around cyrodiil with 15 different sets available in the game?

They literally addressed that and said any sets with repeated server checks would be disabled. All of the sets you listed require repeated server checks, like Seducer, as already told to us by ZOS.

relentless_turnip

Sleevez340 wrote: »

None of these sets have procs, yes some have buffs. But that wasn't stated. And for instance alteration mastery and battlefield acrobat. Flat reduction. That's considered a check?

Who actually wants to run around cyrodiil with 15 different sets available in the game?

I do to be honest 😂 if it means I don't have to fight 40k hp tanks in proc sets... I am so done with this meta.

I hope it is successful and they only adapt sets that increase stats. I'm certain sets like briarheart, nma, seducer, night mothers etc... Can be adapted to be more efficient. It seems strange they need to do constant checks as Brian described seducer. Procs that do free damage or free heals can be buffed and left for overland content or potentially trials 👍

Ahk1lleez

Sleevez340 wrote: »

None of these sets have procs, yes some have buffs. But that wasn't stated. And for instance alteration mastery and battlefield acrobat. Flat reduction. That's considered a check?

Who actually wants to run around cyrodiil with 15 different sets available in the game?

While I understand the point you're proving, I think you're overlooking the bigger picture. If in these three weeks it's proven that the new sets that have dropped every patch have led us to the state Cyrodiil is currently in, they would likely rework all pvp sets (rewards of the worthy and elite gear vendor items) to give flat stat bonuses. Of course, there can only be so many different combinations of stat lines, but a line has to be drawn. If it is indeed the server checks from all the sets causing the performance degradation they have to be limited. Otherwise it will continue to get worse unless they completely rewrite the combat and server check code. While I don't doubt their ability to do the latter, it would probably take entirely too long and be full of bugs. I'm not sure about you...but I trust them more to rework the sets in a timely manner than the code itself.